New Member/Intro - In Panic Mode

Status
Not open for further replies.
Elle D & Hugo

Elle D & Hugo

Member Since 2020
Hello,

First of all, I just want to say what help reading the info from this page and board has been. I'm already grateful and I haven't even met any of you yet. It has made me feel much less alone.

My little bear Hugo was diagnosed about 4 weeks ago. He had been acting odd and then refused to eat, which is VERY unlike him. We took him into a walk in clinic that diagnosed him with diabetes, asthma, and hepatic lipidosis. We were given a script for a glargine pen (that we would use like a vial), on 2 units.They couldn't keep him overnight to watch him, so we had to take him to a fancy ER clinic, where the bill nearly gave me a heart attack. They gave him 4 units (!), nearly sending him into shock, but leveled him out before we took him home, with a script of 1 unit. A week later we took him into our usual vet, who had us change his food, and said we should test him 3 weeks later . I then essentially bothered him enough, that we took him in early, to have them do a blood test for his liver levels, etc. The liver levels were good but they kept him to do a blood glucose curve and upped his amount back to 2 units. We were supposed to do a curve on our own this weekend and report back, but I'm not sure what good it will do, as we had a very difficult night. Hugo is getting wise to the shots, and has always been a bit sensitive along his back and sides. He takes the shots fine with 2 people, but for many nights I've been on my own, and it just keeps getting worse. He grumbles and hisses, trying to scratch or bite me away (this is not typical Hugo behavior - he is a very sweet and loving cat) and is very skilled at escaping a purrito wrap. He also gets upset to the point that it upsets his asthma and he'll go into a coughing fit. I have no idea if I actually got any insulin into him tonight, and I know that will mess up our curve for tomorrow. Also out vet is closed on Sundays, so I can't even ask until Monday. I don't know what to do. I should be able to do this on my own. I was able to at first, but now he gets so mad so quickly, and I dont want him hitting the needle while it's in him. I also just noticed small bumps where we've been injecting him, even though we are changing locations around his body. We must be doing something wrong. I've asked the vet to show me how, and it hasn't helped. I've watched videos, etc, but it seems like they all have conflicting information as to where I can give a shot. My boyfriend helps sometimes, but this is pretty much all on me. Does anyone have any advice? I'm gonna try changing to a smaller gauge, but the pharmacies around here seems to have limited options. They wouldn't even let me buy them for a while.

I adore my little bear. He's gotten me through so much, and I can't help but feel like I'm failing him. I feel like there will finally be a day where he just hides from me. I tried giving him his shot tonight for almost an hour and then he hid from me after. Any help would be appreciated. I feel so desperate right now. I'm crying every night after I do it by myself. I have another cat too (his brother) who has to go in to have a lump removed, and I feel guilty that we havent been able to get him in sooner or give him more attention. I don't know where to go from here.

Sorry for the wall of text.

TL,DR - I'm a mess.

Thank you for anything and everything,

Elle and Hugo
 
Not sure what you have tried. Teal'c is very food motivated so I test him put down the food and while he is eating I pull up the skin making the tent and give him his shot. He hardly notices cause all he is thinking of is his meal.

You are not failing your kitty, I felt the same way you do. I've been at this since November and didn't feel sure of myself till this month. I also did a lot of crying. It does get easier.
 
Thank you for the kind words. Unfortunately, doing it while he is eating has not worked. It seems to make him angrier that I am interrupting his meal.
 
Don't panic, Elle! We have tons of members to help you figure this out. It will get easier, I promise. I believe Glargine is Lantus insulin. I'm not a Lantus user, but I can give you some general advice and let the Lantus members help you with that aspect.

About him fighting the shot. Honestly, when the shot is given correctly, and the cat is distracted with some food or a low carb treat, it shouldn't bother him that much. Not if he's normally pretty stoic, as you describe. My best guess is you might be hitting the muscle when you inject, which can be quite painful. You really just want to inject under the skin. You tent the skin up a good bit from the body, and then inject with the syringe very flat, sort of parallel to his back. If you hold the skin high and keep the syringe flat, it really reduces any chance you could stick him in a muscle. The needle should go very easily into the skin and it should not bump into anything. There's a good video demonstration here.

I know it's all overwhelming at first. We've all been there. You can absolutely find ways to do this that work for you. And it gets easier as you go along, I promise.

What diet are you feeding? Some vets prescribe a high carb dry, which is the opposite of what sugar cats need. Low carb canned food really helps diabetic kitties use less insulin and can even help them achieve remission. Are you home testing Hugo's blood glucose? If you are not home testing, do not change to a low carb wet diet until you are. This diet can drop a cats BGL over 100 points, which can cause a dangerous hypoglycemic event if you are not testing before his shot.

If you are not home testing, I really suggest you consider it. My vet started my Billy on 2 units of ProZinc twice a day (1 unit if he wasn't eating, which he wasn't at first because he was so sick.) If I had not been testing his BGL at home, I would have lost him on day five. He was diagnosed with a BGL over 500, but on day five it dropped to 52. If I'd given him 2 units of insulin when his BGL was only 52, it would have been disastrous. Home testing can keep Hugo safe and it isn't as hard to do as it might seem at first. There's some good information here about it.

Now, if you have any other questions, please ask. And when you have the time, please consider making Hugo a spreadsheet and putting information in your profile like I have. Click on Billy's Spreadsheet in my signature. You can look at that scary day 5. Because I had his spreadsheet filled out, a kind member was able to give me good advice during that time. Here's instructions on how to do it, it's super easy- New? How you can help us help you!

Remind yourself that you are a rock star for taking such good care of Hugo. It will get easier, I promise.
 
Hi Elle and Hugo and welcome!!
Yes glargine is Lantus insulin. Which country do you live in? Most countries call it Lantus. Australia calls it glargine.

It will get much easier I promise. Maybe your stress is being picked up by Hugo. Try humming or singing as you give him the injection.

I would also strongly recommend you think about home testing the blood sugars. It isn’t nearly as scary as it sounds.
I would buy a human meter, they are much cheaper to run then pet meters and our dosing methods are based on the human meter.
Also we increase the dose by 1/4 unit increments so that it is safer for the cat and we don’t go past the best dose.

Food is also very important. Low carb canned food under 10% carbs is recommended but if you are feeding a higher carb food don’t change it until you are home testing because the blood sugars can drop a lot with the change of food and we don’t want a hypo to happen.

here are a couple of useful links.
Keep asking lots of questions.

food links
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

home testing link
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
 
Thank you for responding!

1. The glargine is the generic Lantus, yes.

2. He unfortunately doesn't tolerate getting the shot while he is eating, and I have been doing the tenting and everything with the shot. The problem is his skin seems sensitive? Like, he absolutely HATES us pinching his fur to pull up the tent. I see all these videos of people grabbing these big amounts of skin to pull away, and Hugo just doesn't have that. I'm lucky if I can get a good inch of skin, especially because his fur is so dense. I tried to convince my boyfriend to let me shave a few spots on him to make it easier to grab, but he refuses because he thinks it will lead to scarring.

3. We're feeding low carb, Friskies Pate to be exact. We tried the prescription stuff but he refused to eat it. So Friskies it is, and a lot of it. He's been eating it since he's been on the insulin. We're still giving him an appetite stimulant and extra food under the vet's recommendation because he wants to make sure that the hepatic lipidosis is 100% gone.

4. We have the AlphaTrak2 meter, but we havent had a lot of success with it so far. Tomorrow will really be the test with that.
 
31g is actually smaller. As the number goes up, the needle size gets smaller.
You'll want to try to find U100, 3/10 cc (volume, holds a maximum of 30 units), with 1/2 unit markings on the insulin barrel. Needle length is your choice. Personal preference. Some people like the shorter needles, some people like the longer needles.

There is ADW Diabetes for ordering insulin syringes. That is only one place I know of. Not recommending them specifically.

Walmart also carries insulin syringes in the 3/10 cc volume with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. Pharmacy staff often do not know they carry them. Ask them to physically check the box.
 
Elle D said:
He takes the shots fine with 2 people, but for many nights I've been on my own, and it just keeps getting worse. He grumbles and hisses, trying to scratch or bite me away (this is not typical Hugo behavior - he is a very sweet and loving cat) and is very skilled at escaping a purrito wrap.
Click to expand...
Bribes. What sort of treat does Hugo like? Any kind of pure protein treat would be fine. chicken, beef, fish, bits of cheese, small bits of cooked egg. Some people like to use freeze dried treats. There are many available, such as halo-liv-a-little treats or Pure Bites freeze dried treats. There is also freeze dried raw food in many flavors, such as Stella & Chewy's or Feline Natural. Only 2 examples, there are others.

What you want to look for is a food/treat that does not contain starchy ingredients like grains (rice, corn, wheat, soy), peas, potatoes, cassava, etc.

Some cats like attention. Perhaps some play time first, or brushing or chin scratches.
What does Hugo love?

Desensitize him. Behavior modification. Get him used to the little steps that you do, without actually giving Hugo the shot. As often as you can, simply touch him in various spots on his body. Pet him. Talk to him, sing to him, a silly children's song like "row, row, row your boat".

Calling @Susan & Claudio who had a difficult time with her Claudio. Hey Susan, would you help this new person out with some ideas that helped you with giving Claudio his shots and home testing? Thanks.
 
Deb & Wink said:
31g is actually smaller. As the number goes up, the needle size gets smaller.
You'll want to try to find U100, 3/10 cc (volume, holds a maximum of 30 units), with 1/2 unit markings on the insulin barrel. Needle length is your choice. Personal preference. Some people like the shorter needles, some people like the longer needles.

There is ADW Diabetes for ordering insulin syringes. That is only one place I know of. Not recommending them specifically.

Walmart also carries insulin syringes in the 3/10 cc volume with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. Pharmacy staff often do not know they carry them. Ask them to physically check the box.
Click to expand...

We tried to get 31g or even 30g, but no pharmacy we were around had any in anything smaller than the 1cc syringes. We don't have a Walmart anywhere close to us, unfortunately, so that's out.
I would love to use the shorter needles, but the vet said we had to use 1/2" because cat's have thick skin. How do you know if it's long enough?
 
Look at your cats ears. How thick is the skin there? Not very thick.
Certainly nowhere near 1/2 an inch thick.

Insulin syringe needle lengths are either 1/2" (8/16") or 5/16" Yes, the shorter needle lengths can be used in a cat. No problem. In fact, many people prefer the short needles, so they don't poke the tip of the needle out the other side of the tent of skin. And end up giving a fur shot. (fur shot - where all or part of the insulin ends up in the fur instead of inside your cat.)

A cat's fur will grow back, fairly quickly. If you trim closely with blunt nosed scissors and then maybe shave a spot to help you see better when you are injecting the insulin, that could really help you out.

Where do you give the insulin injection now? Have you seen this?
Shooting
We all have our own techniques for shooting but just a few thoughts and others may bring some of their ideas in as well.
  • Injection sites:
You can shoot the scruff, side of chest, side of belly, side of flank....wherever your kitty is comfortable and you have the least chance of doing a fur shot.

12715861-6481-417b-b0e4-ee494d3426b2-jpeg.48121

  • Site Rotation
It's actually a great idea to rotate sites in order to prevent development of a lipoma or scar tissue. A lipoma is just a thickened area of fatty cells right under the skin. If you shoot in the same place repeatedly and your kitty develops one, they often will go away on their own if you switch to another site. However, if you change injection sites every day (if possible), there is a much decreased chance in developing either a lipoma or scar tissue. Both of these can affect absorption negatively. If your cat prefers scruff shots only, you can shoot one side in the morning and the other side at night; you can also move the scruff site so the first day, you shoot at the inner scruff on one side, the next day, the middle scruff, and the third day, the outer part of the scruff. Or, if kitty is tolerant of any injection sites, you can shoot one side in the mornings and shoot the scruff the first day, the chest the next, the flank the third day. In the evenings, you can shoot the other side of the kitty but in the same order.

Or shave a 2" by 2" patch of fur, and rotate your injection site. Think of the patch as the face of an analog clock. First shot is 1 o'clock, 2nd shot is 2 o'clock,........ until you get back to 1 o'clock on day 7.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Look at your cats ears. How thick is the skin there? Not very thick.
Certainly nowhere near 1/2 an inch thick.

Insulin syringe needle lengths are either 1/2" (8/16") or 5/16" Yes, the shorter needle lengths can be used in a cat. No problem. In fact, many people prefer the short needles, so they don't poke the tip of the needle out the other side of the tent of skin. And end up giving a fur shot. (fur shot - where all or part of the insulin ends up in the fur instead of inside your cat.)

A cat's fur will grow back, fairly quickly. If you trim closely with blunt nosed scissors and then maybe shave a spot to help you see better when you are injecting the insulin, that could really help you out.

Where do you give the insulin injection now? Have you seen this?
Shooting
We all have our own techniques for shooting but just a few thoughts and others may bring some of their ideas in as well.
  • Injection sites:
You can shoot the scruff, side of chest, side of belly, side of flank....wherever your kitty is comfortable and you have the least chance of doing a fur shot.

12715861-6481-417b-b0e4-ee494d3426b2-jpeg.48121

  • Site Rotation
It's actually a great idea to rotate sites in order to prevent development of a lipoma or scar tissue. A lipoma is just a thickened area of fatty cells right under the skin. If you shoot in the same place repeatedly and your kitty develops one, they often will go away on their own if you switch to another site. However, if you change injection sites every day (if possible), there is a much decreased chance in developing either a lipoma or scar tissue. Both of these can affect absorption negatively. If your cat prefers scruff shots only, you can shoot one side in the morning and the other side at night; you can also move the scruff site so the first day, you shoot at the inner scruff on one side, the next day, the middle scruff, and the third day, the outer part of the scruff. Or, if kitty is tolerant of any injection sites, you can shoot one side in the mornings and shoot the scruff the first day, the chest the next, the flank the third day. In the evenings, you can shoot the other side of the kitty but in the same order.

Or shave a 2" by 2" patch of fur, and rotate your injection site. Think of the patch as the face of an analog clock. First shot is 1 o'clock, 2nd shot is 2 o'clock,........ until you get back to 1 o'clock on day 7.
Click to expand...

I will try the shorter needle, thinner syringes. I wish I could shave or trim those spots, but my boyfriend flat out refuses.

Also, I've heard a lot of different advice on using the scruff. I thought the insulin didn't take as well through the scruff and we were supposed to do it around the torso?
 
Deb & Wink said:
If no local pharmacies have the proper syringes, you will need to order online. You may need a prescription from your vet to order. Drug control laws, opoid crisis.

https://www.adwdiabetes.com/categor...t-by-field=BESTMATCH,page=1,ppp=20,op=fs,ps=|

https://www.totaldiabetessupply.com...es-1-2-unit-31-gauge-3-10-cc-5-16-inch-100-bx

These are simply 2 examples I found with a quick internet search.
Click to expand...

I already had a really fun experience with trying to get any syringes in the first place. With our initial prescription, we weren't given a script for syringes, and no one would sell them to us. We kept calling the vet to call in a script, and then the pharmacy would say they didn't get anything. I would have to run around the city to find a pharmacy that would sell them by the 10-pack until we figured it out. It was infuriating. I'm gonna try online. I hope its fast enough.
 
California does not require a prescription to buy syringes. You only have to state that you are using the syringes for a diabetic.

ADWdiabetes says this on their website, when I looked at syringes there.
 
I felt like everything got a lot easier when I relaxed about it. I had a heck of a time at first as well with testing and shots but once I stopped fretting as much about it, so did he. Granted what worked for us was not testing multiple times in a day, and eventually not even every day once I got him regulated. I know some feel it needs to be done daily, but between a few times a week with ear testing and urine strips we did very well with numbers almost always between 120 and 150. Just try to relax and do what works for you and your kitty.
 
Vtambo & Rex said:
I felt like everything got a lot easier when I relaxed about it. I had a heck of a time at first as well with testing and shots but once I stopped fretting as much about it, so did he. Granted what worked for us was not testing multiple times in a day, and eventually not even every day once I got him regulated. I know some feel it needs to be done daily, but between a few times a week with ear testing and urine strips we did very well with numbers almost always between 120 and 150. Just try to relax and do what works for you and your kitty.
Click to expand...

We're trying. We did the glucose curve today and he's not even close to being controlled yet, although he's definitely feeling better in general, since the diagnosis. I will have to get some urine strips as well. I went and got some of the smaller needles to try out, and I'm hoping that helps tonight.
 
Be patient and don’t give up. I know it seems daunting and things will never get better but all of a sudden things will just click. Those on this site are invaluable. For technical support and moral support. Don’t be afraid to do some research and ask questions. I know vets are necessary but I found they are not always as educated as they should be, especially when it comes to diet. Rely on Dr. Lisa’s chart and don’t be afraid to call manufacturers. There are calculators online as well. My cat reacted pretty bad when I tried a curve as well - to the point he wouldn’t even come in the same room as me because I think he thought he was going to get poked. That broke my heart. After a while we could get the test and the shot done in literally less than 2 minutes. I didn’t even need treats for shots any longer. Still always gave for testing though. You got this!
 
Elle D
Sorry I haven't been on line for 2 days. Just saw this.
You name it, I tried it. Everything !! I have a really cantankerous cat. He is now 90 % better about getting tested and getting his shot. In the beginning there were times that he'll hide under the bed for hours.
I started by putting him on the sofa next to me and petting/talking to him. Wanted to get him used to being in his testing spot.
I am lucky enough that he'll let me rub his ears to warm them. Then I would give him a treat.
Once he got used to that, I started testing. Sometimes it went well. Other times,well.... But I was persistent. I knew he had to be tested for his very life.
As for the shot, I had to hold him down. Still have to on occasion. He wants to go lay down instead. But he doesn't fight me about it any more.
The only treat he was interested in was sardines. Yuk !! Sometimes I'll give him a piece of plain chicken or a tsp of canned food.
2 words- persistence and determination. I knew it had to be done. He wouldn't get better if I gave up.
I wish you the best of luck :bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Susan & Claudio said:
Elle D
Sorry I haven't been on line for 2 days. Just saw this.
You name it, I tried it. Everything !! I have a really cantankerous cat. He is now 90 % better about getting tested and getting his shot. In the beginning there were times that he'll hide under the bed for hours.
I started by putting him on the sofa next to me and petting/talking to him. Wanted to get him used to being in his testing spot.
I am lucky enough that he'll let me rub his ears to warm them. Then I would give him a treat.
Once he got used to that, I started testing. Sometimes it went well. Other times,well.... But I was persistent. I knew he had to be tested for his very life.
As for the shot, I had to hold him down. Still have to on occasion. He wants to go lay down instead. But he doesn't fight me about it any more.
The only treat he was interested in was sardines. Yuk !! Sometimes I'll give him a piece of plain chicken or a tsp of canned food.
2 words- persistence and determination. I knew it had to be done. He wouldn't get better if I gave up.
I wish you the best of luck :bighug::bighug::bighug:
Click to expand...

What kind of needles do you use? Did/Does it make a difference. We're using the smaller ones now, and it seems better, but I haven't had to do it by myself yet.
 
Elle D
I use Relion from Walmart. They sell them in a package of 10 w/o a script. I could get a box of 100, but then I would need a script from the vet. I refuse to pay him $60 to write on a piece of paper.
The ones I get are:
31 gauge 6mm(15/64") needle length 3/10mL 1/2 unit markings
I was told by the pharmacist to get the 8mm (5/16") for a pet. She said animal's skin is thicker so I need a longer needle.
Although these are a shorter syringe, Claudio seems to tolerate them better. Just make sure you do get the needle in the skin and not a furshot.
If it makes it easier to give him an injection, I'm all for it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top