New to the PZ ISG, still learning the steps of this dance.

HelloKrystie

HelloKrystie

Member
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-question-amps-133.225602/#post-2529886

Hello! For anyone that hasn’t seen my posts in the Main, my name is Krystie, and my kitty is Sirius. Quick catch-up:
We were diagnosed a few days before I had to travel. My vet gave me a crash course at our dx appt, he mentioned home testing and sent me home with DM low carb foods. I taught my bf and my sister-in-law how to shoot before my trip just fine. Upon returning from my week long trip I found out my bf was microwaving the insulin. Yes, microwaving...the entire bottle. It took several days to get a replacement, as this was discovered on a Friday night. So, Sirius only received a few days of good insulin, then had over a week long break from it. We’ve been back on the juice and testing for 8 days now.
I still have a million questions, make tons of mistakes, and am unsure about dosing a lot of the time. @Deb & Wink have been a saving grace and have helped me so much. She pushed me to post on here for the first time, for PZ specific dosing advise.
Right now I’m trying to fill in my SS as best I can, and will attempt my first day-time curve this weekend. Thankfully Deb let me know before I did it, that it is not in fact a full 24 hours of testing...only 12! I was fully prepared to do it, but what a sigh of relief I had when she told me.

I’m keeping a steady 2 drop dose going, and his numbers seem ok, but we’re all aiming for those greens, right?!? We do get them, but not consistently. Any advice is always appreciated. And tips or tricks for the pokes too; w CNN his little ears are a mess, and they make me want I cry just looking at them. He yelps every time I poke him :(

Thanks for reading all of that!
 
Don’t cry... his ears will get used to it. My girl now comes when I just sit in “the spot” to get tested. I know this whole process is stressful and can make you crazy,sad, scared etc. but you got this and are doing fabulous for someone who just started this dance. Remember to breathe and reach out to the peeps here whenever you need to. I couldn’t have gotten this far without them. Hugs and love to you and Sirius :bighug:
 
Lisa and little said:
Don’t cry... his ears will get used to it. My girl now comes when I just sit in “the spot” to get tested. I know this whole process is stressful and can make you crazy,sad, scared etc. but you got this and are doing fabulous for someone who just started this dance. Remember to breathe and reach out to the peeps here whenever you need to. I couldn’t have gotten this far without them. Hugs and love to you and Sirius :bighug:
Click to expand...
Thank you, Lisa!
 
Hello Krystie!

Took a peek at Sirius's SS. I think we need to do a bit of a sliding scale, like I did for Kerri & Tigger.

How about this for the new sliding scale

If BG < 90 skip shot (or stall)
If BG = or > 90 and < 130 0.2U (2 drop)
If BG = or > 130 and < 160 0.3U (3 drops)
If BG = or > 160 and < 200 0.4U (4 drops)
If BG = or > 200 and < 240 0.5U (5 drops)
If BG = or > 240 0.6U (6 drops)

This would be easier if you had U100 syringes to use with your U40 insulin. Then, you would use the conversion chart and simply draw the required amount into the U100 syringe.

For example, 0.2 U x 2.5 = 0.5U in the U100 syringe
Prozinc U-100
amt syringe amt
0.2 U = 0.5U
0.3 U = 0.75U
0.4 U = 1U
0.5 U = 1.25U
0.6 U = 1.5U

Trying to tweak these BG readings more down into the healing green number range.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hello Krystie!

Took a peek at Sirius's SS. I think we need to do a bit of a sliding scale, like I did for Kerri & Tigger.

How about this for the new sliding scale

If BG < 90 skip shot (or stall)
If BG = or > 90 and < 130 0.2U (2 drop)
If BG = or > 130 and < 160 0.3U (3 drops)
If BG = or > 160 and < 200 0.4U (4 drops)
If BG = or > 200 and < 240 0.5U (5 drops)
If BG = or > 240 0.6U (6 drops)

This would be easier if you had U100 syringes to use with your U40 insulin. Then, you would use the conversion chart and simply draw the required amount into the U100 syringe.

For example, 0.2 U x 2.5 = 0.5U in the U100 syringe
Prozinc U-100
amt syringe amt
0.2 U = 0.5U
0.3 U = 0.75U
0.4 U = 1U
0.5 U = 1.25U
0.6 U = 1.5U

Trying to tweak these BG readings more down into the healing green number range.
Click to expand...
Hi Deb!
I’ve been thinking about his doses. I’m definitely doing his day-time curve this Saturday, so should I try the sliding method right away? Or wait until after the curve?
I think I’m pretty confident about the drop doses...at least up to 3 drops; 2 and 3 drops I’ve practiced a lot. Thankfully his numbers seem to be consistently lower than 160, so paws crossed I won’t need to go to 4 drops.
Concerning the syringes, which gauge do you think is best? The syringes I have now are 29g, do you think I can go lower, to say 31g? I’m also debating if I should switch from the 1/2” to the 5/16” ?
 

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HelloKrystie said:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/prozinc-dosing-question-amps-133.225602/#post-2529886

Hello! For anyone that hasn’t seen my posts in the Main, my name is Krystie, and my kitty is Sirius. Quick catch-up:
We were diagnosed a few days before I had to travel. My vet gave me a crash course at our dx appt, he mentioned home testing and sent me home with DM low carb foods. I taught my bf and my sister-in-law how to shoot before my trip just fine. Upon returning from my week long trip I found out my bf was microwaving the insulin. Yes, microwaving...the entire bottle. It took several days to get a replacement, as this was discovered on a Friday night. So, Sirius only received a few days of good insulin, then had over a week long break from it. We’ve been back on the juice and testing for 8 days now.
I still have a million questions, make tons of mistakes, and am unsure about dosing a lot of the time. @Deb & Wink have been a saving grace and have helped me so much. She pushed me to post on here for the first time, for PZ specific dosing advise.
Right now I’m trying to fill in my SS as best I can, and will attempt my first day-time curve this weekend. Thankfully Deb let me know before I did it, that it is not in fact a full 24 hours of testing...only 12! I was fully prepared to do it, but what a sigh of relief I had when she told me.

I’m keeping a steady 2 drop dose going, and his numbers seem ok, but we’re all aiming for those greens, right?!? We do get them, but not consistently. Any advice is always appreciated. And tips or tricks for the pokes too; w CNN his little ears are a mess, and they make me want I cry just looking at them. He yelps every time I poke him :(

Thanks for reading all of that!
Click to expand...
If his ears are a mess then you may be accidentally hitting the vein. Maske sure you are aiming for the very outer ear edge, not the vein. I test my cat 4-6 times a day for years and her ears are fine. A little neosporin ointment with pain relief will help her eat heal. Also after the reading I squeeze the ear with a cotton cosmetic rounds. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
 

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JanetNJ said:
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If his ears are a mess then you may be accidentally hitting the vein. Maske sure you are aiming for the very outer ear edge, not the vein. I test my cat 4-6 times a day for years and her ears are fine. A little neosporin ointment with pain relief will help her eat heal. Also after the reading I squeeze the ear with a cotton cosmetic rounds. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.
Click to expand...
I’ve been pretty careful not to hit the vein; I did it once and there was a lot of blood. Plus I gave him a little lump on that ear. It’s slowly going down, and didn’t seem like anything more than a little scab of some sort. (I posted a picture of it in the linked thread) I even shaved the edges of his ears to see the vein better. I purchased smaller lancets last night to minimize his pain, but those don’t seem to be giving me enough blood. This morning was such a struggle with him. Multiple pokes, multiple test strips, I’m bleeding...we’re both pretty frustrated at the moment. :banghead:
 
HelloKrystie said:
I’ve been pretty careful not to hit the vein; I did it once and there was a lot of blood. Plus I gave him a little lump on that ear. It’s slowly going down, and didn’t seem like anything more than a little scab of some sort. (I posted a picture of it in the linked thread) I even shaved the edges of his ears to see the vein better. I purchased smaller lancets last night to minimize his pain, but those don’t seem to be giving me enough blood. This morning was such a struggle with him. Multiple pokes, multiple test strips, I’m bleeding...we’re both pretty frustrated at the moment. :banghead:
Click to expand...

Sometimes it feels like you should just aim for the vein after all, doesn't it? :blackeye: But sounds like he's letting you use both ears now?
 
Kerri & Tigger said:
Sometimes it feels like you should just aim for the vein after all, doesn't it? :blackeye: But sounds like he's letting you use both ears now?
Click to expand...
I’m still waiting for his ears to “learn to bleed”. I thought that would have happened by now. *sigh*
If by letting me, you mean holding him captive, then yes. Lol. I ripped open my knuckle with a lancet this morning by him pulling that other ear away from me. Even when I think I have a good grip on him...
 
Sometimes I think we really need three hands. Or else maybe a little velcro suit for the kitty and a matching velcro glove. I had a lot of trouble getting enough blood for my human meter too....I guess it all adds up to more bandaids for you and more tuna for Sirius!:cat:
 
HelloKrystie said:
I’ve been thinking about his doses. I’m definitely doing his day-time curve this Saturday, so should I try the sliding method right away? Or wait until after the curve?
Click to expand...
Wait until after the curve. See if you catch an "unexpected low" BG reading. Then try the sliding scale after that.

I think Sirius is close to getting to remission. We just need to tweak his numbers down into the greens a bit more at mid-cycle.

HelloKrystie said:
Concerning the syringes, which gauge do you think is best? The syringes I have now are 29g, do you think I can go lower, to say 31g? I’m also debating if I should switch from the 1/2” to the 5/16” ?
Click to expand...
Smaller gauge is bigger needle. So the syringes like the 31G (gauge) hurt less, smaller needle.
Needle length is your choice. Some people like the shorter needles, because they are less prone to sticking the needle out the other side of the pinched up "tent" of skin.

I never did switch to the lower gauge lancets with my diabetic cat. Always used the ones marked "for alternate site testing" on the box.
 
I never did switch to the lower gauge lancets with my diabetic cat. Always used the ones marked "for alternate site testing" on the box.[/QUOTE]

I’m using 26g, they were the only thing I could find at the time. But I’m thinking they may be too thick. And, the smaller ones I got last night seem to be too small. I guess I’ll try something in the middle next. Everyone else seems to have kitty’s with normal looking ears; Sirius’ ears look like he’s abused. (I’m probably totally exaggerating, but to me they look so awful, and sore)
 
HelloKrystie said:
Hi Deb!
Concerning the syringes, which gauge do you think is best? The syringes I have now are 29g, do you think I can go lower, to say 31g? I’m also debating if I should switch from the 1/2” to the 5/16” ?
Click to expand...

Hi Krystie! A few days ago, I ordered the same syringes in your photo, and they just arrived. I was using U-40, then U-100 (but forgot to look for the half-unit markings first time around). I haven't used one of these yet, but I just took one out to examine, and they seem really good. Better quality than my others....Both of my other kinds feel a little "loose" (hard to explain) and not always aligned really well. Like, before I draw up a dose I have to check the alignment of the plunger against the bottom line, when pushed all the way down. If that makes sense. I guess some of the pet syringes are just not as quality-controlled as human, maybe? Anyway, these seem GREAT--but I haven't Tigger-tested them yet. It's my first time with the shorter needle and higher gauge/thinner needle. Will let you know how it goes!:cat:

EDIT/UPDATE: Just tried my first dose with one of these. I like them a lot. I never had trouble poking through to the other side of the tent, but sometimes I did let the half-inch needle touch the inside of Tigger! She was quick to let me know. Seems I'm less likely to do that with these shorties.
 
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HelloKrystie said:
I’ve been pretty careful not to hit the vein; I did it once and there was a lot of blood. Plus I gave him a little lump on that ear. It’s slowly going down, and didn’t seem like anything more than a little scab of some sort. (I posted a picture of it in the linked thread) I even shaved the edges of his ears to see the vein better. I purchased smaller lancets last night to minimize his pain, but those don’t seem to be giving me enough blood. This morning was such a struggle with him. Multiple pokes, multiple test strips, I’m bleeding...we’re both pretty frustrated at the moment. :banghead:
Click to expand...
Are you bleeding from the cat or from the Lancet
 
HelloKrystie said:
I never did switch to the lower gauge lancets with my diabetic cat. Always used the ones marked "for alternate site testing" on the box.
Click to expand...

I’m using 26g, they were the only thing I could find at the time. But I’m thinking they may be too thick. And, the smaller ones I got last night seem to be too small. I guess I’ll try something in the middle next. Everyone else seems to have kitty’s with normal looking ears; Sirius’ ears look like he’s abused. (I’m probably totally exaggerating, but to me they look so awful, and sore)[/QUOTE]
I use 28
 
Kerri & Tigger said:
Hi Krystie! A few days ago, I ordered the same syringes in your photo, and they just arrived. I was using U-40, then U-100 (but forgot to look for the half-unit markings first time around). I haven't used one of these yet, but I just took one out to examine, and they seem really good. Better quality than my others....Both of my other kinds feel a little "loose" (hard to explain) and not always aligned really well. Like, before I draw up a dose I have to check the alignment of the plunger against the bottom line, when pushed all the way down. If that makes sense. I guess some of the pet syringes are just not as quality-controlled as human, maybe? Anyway, these seem GREAT--but I haven't Tigger-tested them yet. It's my first time with the shorter needle and higher gauge/thinner needle. Will let you know how it goes!:cat:

EDIT/UPDATE: Just tried my first dose with one of these. I like them a lot. I never had trouble poking through to the other side of the tent, but sometimes I did let the half-inch needle touch the inside of Tigger! She was quick to let me know. Seems I'm less likely to do that with these shorties.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!! I’m going to order these for sure!
 
Hey, Kerri! Much better than expected! I had the element of surprise most of the day, and snuck attacked him while he was napping a few times. He doesn’t seem to be that mad at me, but he’s definitely watching me closely tonight. I haven’t poked him in a few hours, but he’s still side-eyeing me every time I move. Lol
 
HelloKrystie said:
Hey, Kerri! Much better than expected! I had the element of surprise most of the day, and snuck attacked him while he was napping a few times. He doesn’t seem to be that mad at me, but he’s definitely watching me closely tonight. I haven’t poked him in a few hours, but he’s still side-eyeing me every time I move. Lol
Click to expand...

I'm so glad it worked out without too much drama! Or too much people blood. :p I hear you, about the side-eye. You know how cats like to play inside paper bags? Now Tigger loves to EAT inside a paper bag. So I can't poke her. And since she rules the roost, that's what we do.:cat:
 
Want me to go take a look at the SS and the curve?
Did even if you did not want me to. I'm like that. ;)

Looks good. Not too low, never down below 50.
2 drops is working for Sirius.

Krystie, would you put some notes over in the Remarks column on when you fed Sirius? Please?
Every day would be nice to see. + hour times, amount fed, etc.

I'm especially interested in knowing when Sirius was fed in relation to those curve BG tests.

Thanks.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Want me to go take a look at the SS and the curve?
Did even if you did not want me to. I'm like that. ;)

Looks good. Not too low, never down below 50.
2 drops is working for Sirius.

Krystie, would you put some notes over in the Remarks column on when you fed Sirius? Please?
Every day would be nice to see. + hour times, amount fed, etc.

I'm especially interested in knowing when Sirius was fed in relation to those curve BG tests.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, his feeding is still pretty sporadic, let’s see what I can come up with....
 
Deb & Wink said:
Do you mean his appetite is poor? Or something else?
Grazing vs gobbling up the food?
Click to expand...
He’s a grazer; unless it’s breakfast of dinner time, he’ll eat a bite or two, then go back sporadically for another bite or two. It’s how he’s always been. Sometimes he just goes to check to see if his food is still there, and will take a bite...
Now that I remove his food prior to his shots, he’s ravenous at breakfast and dinner.
 
HelloKrystie said:
Now that I remove his food prior to his shots, he’s ravenous at breakfast and dinner.
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In some ways, that is good. At least you know he'll eat well before you give him the insulin.

Even a rough idea of what he eats at pre-shot test times would be helpful.
Then, an estimate on what he eats during the day, as snacks.

p.s. You should remove the dose of insulin from your signature. The dose changes too often to make having that info there be helpful.
 
Hi Krystie, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
Deb & Wink said:
Hi Krystie, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
Click to expand...
Hello Deb!
Quick question about my PZ. The sticky says it should be clear. Both of the vials I have had so far have been a milky color. They came from two different veterinarians. This is the first time I’ve seen PZ refereed to as clear, everything else I’ve read here, and other articles, have mentioned it being a milky color.
 
No, Prozinc insulin should be cloudy. Like the color of skim milk, but lighter.

Could you tell me which sticky said that? I'll let the appropriate people know and hope to get it fixed ASAP.
Thanks for noticing that. Haven't had time to review all the new "Stickies" myself - yet. Working on it.
 
Deb & Wink said:
No, Prozinc insulin should be cloudy. Like the color of skim milk, but lighter.

Could you tell me which sticky said that? I'll let the appropriate people know and hope to get it fixed ASAP.
Thanks for noticing that. Haven't had time to review all the new "Stickies" myself - yet. Working on it.
Click to expand...
It’s in the Insulin Care sticky, twice. Well, once really, but it mentions “cloudy” twice.
 

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I've let the moderators know Krystie.
Thank you for your "sharp eyes" and catching this.
Much appreciated.

The first spot has been fixed already.
Found one more spot that needs correction.
Moderators are working on other fixes.

p.s. Knew I should have read through all those documents first thing this morning. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Deb & Wink said:
I've let the moderators know Krystie.
Thank you for your "sharp eyes" and catching this.
Much appreciated.

The first spot has been fixed already.
Found one more spot that needs correction.
Moderators are working on other fixes.

p.s. Knew I should have read through all those documents first thing this morning. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
Click to expand...
It’s such a minor mistake, and it was caught really early. No silly stresses over that! :p
 
Hey @Deb & Wink would you take a look at Sirius’ ss. He’s pretty low right now, he’s 68 at around +4.5. I gave him soon food, which he scarfed down. Should I be worried? I’m thinking he’ll go back up soon, especially since he just ate a good amount of food. His nadir seems to be around +4...I think.
I can probably run home to test him again soon if you think I should.
Thanks!
 
Yes Krystie, I think you want to get another mid-cycle test today. If possible.

And think about reducing to 1 drop of insulin for tonight's PMPS dosing cycle.
 
And leave some extra food out for Sirius too. So he can eat if he feels his BG levels going down.

Can't remember if you have more than 1 cat. If so, sequester Sirius with said food and a litter box in his own separate quarters for the rest of the afternoon, til you are home from work.
 
Deb & Wink said:
And leave some extra food out for Sirius too. So he can eat if he feels his BG levels going down.

Can't remember if you have more than 1 cat. If so, sequester Sirius with said food and a litter box in his own separate quarters for the rest of the afternoon, til you are home from work.
Click to expand...
No other kitties. He ate a good amount of his ff, and there was some left on his plate. I will test him in another hour. Thank you!
 
Love it if you could do 1 more test in 20-30 minutes.

If not, leave food for Sirius to munch on while you are gone.
 
Ok. he's probably headed back up. And as I said, having food available, Sirius will seek out food if he feels hungry when his blood sugar drops low.

p.s. Don't suppose it's "Bring your fur kid to work day?"

It's not that critical Krystie. He'll be fine.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Ok. he's probably headed back up. And as I said, having food available, Sirius will seek out food if he feels hungry when his blood sugar drops low.

p.s. Don't suppose it's "Bring your fur kid to work day?"

I wish, and I wish even harder that he would be calm and comfortable enough that It would be an option.
It's not that critical Krystie. He'll be fine.
Click to expand...
I know PZ is supposed to nadir around +6, give-or-take, but Sirius seems to nadir around +4. That seems like to short of a cycle. Have you ever encountered such a short cycle? Do you think it will be a detriment to him getting to remission? One more...is he dropping to low? His pattern looks to nadir in the the high 60’s and come right back up, is this too low?
 
HelloKrystie said:
I know PZ is supposed to nadir around +6, give-or-take, but Sirius seems to nadir around +4.
Click to expand...
ECID Every Cat is Different. Sirius proves that. Averages do not mean that all cats will have their nadir or low at +6.

HelloKrystie said:
That seems like to short of a cycle. Have you ever encountered such a short cycle?
Click to expand...
Wink on a different insulin had a nadir around +3 to +4. He got a bit of overlap with the Lantus. ( I know, different insulin than the Prozinc that Sirius is getting.)
Prozinc can also have a bit of an extended duration. Up to 14 hours. So you may be seeing a little bit of that with Sirius and his +4 nadir.
 
Deb & Wink said:
ECID Every Cat is Different. Sirius proves that. Averages do not mean that all cats will have their nadir or low at +6.


Wink on a different insulin had a nadir around +3 to +4. He got a bit of overlap with the Lantus. ( I know, different insulin than the Prozinc that Sirius is getting.)
Prozinc can also have a bit of an extended duration. Up to 14 hours. So you may be seeing a little bit of that with Sirius and his +4 nadir.
Click to expand...
Oh right! Okay, possible overlap instead of short duration. Yikes, I feel like a scientist sometimes Deb! So much to take into consideration.
So now, do you think I should change his dose to one drop tonight? Or base it off his pmps number? What should that number be if I were to lower the dose? Last nights pmps was pretty low, but I made sure to test him a few times mid cycle. He was great, playing and cuddling, the whole night.
 
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