Numbers decent with 1/2 the dose

I noticed the eating more, both Shefoo & Teal'c both enjoying the Friskies food.

And Teal'c rushing at the door, racing to join you in bed and getting a helping hand up.
He's feeling better.
 
Yeah he is and I'm so happy about the start of a turn around. Will start 3.5 am shot I do go back to work tomorrow night will test him before I leave for work. Husband will not test him but will give the shot, he claims his hands are too big and Teal'c doesn't like it. I only work 8 hours so will test him as soon as I get home. I do have tomorrow during the daytime to see how he does.
 
Glad to see these numbers but why do they pick not the best days to do that lol. Of course I go back to work tonight. Leaving him in the hands of my non testing husband sheesh
 
Changing to feeding the Friskies canned foods seems to be making a big difference for Teal'c's BG levels.
 
Yes the food change really helped. Going to start testing him hourly till I see rising numbers today. Want to know he will be safe in my husbands hands tonight. I am a happy camper right now.
 
97 @ 6.5 did eat after last test now on the rise. Excited in the thought that this could be the dose that allows me to start getting him regulated. Will have husband give the 3.25 tonight. I'll leave out extra food for Teal'c incase. I work 8 hours tonight and will be home between +8 & +8.5. Had thought about having him drop back to 3 but afraid this will send Teal'c back into a tail spin hate not being home tonight. You seem to have great wisdom what do you think would be best.
 
I'd leave the dose at the higher 3.25 dose for now.
Don't want Teal'c to backslide.
Extra food would be good. Many cats seek out food if they feel their BG levels dropping.
When I say dropping lower, I mean dropping lower than their body is used to.
Not necessarily into dangerous hypo territory either. Simply lower.

Sure do wish Bobby would test at least once tonight.

Don't you dare rush home to test Teal'c. You need to keep yourself safe.

Patty, you have essentially done a curve today, if you test at +8 and +10.

p.s. Green. What a lovely, lovely color to see on Teal'c SS. :D
 
I am doing a curve today. After the green last night I decided today before I went to work I wanted to know what he was going to do today so set my alarm for 2 hours after his shot. Got up and checked reset alarm laid back down. Hit snooze a couple times so that's why 5.5 the second test. He was in bed with me and I looked into his eyes and told him I really need to know. Got up and got the 74 was like will I'm not fully awake should test again to make sure and then got the 66. Saw that and I was now fully awake jumping up and down green in 2 cycles back to back. I'm sure he thought I was nuts. I'm still so excited. He finished his food and I put out another can of food with 1/2 can of water. Since I have been putting that much water in his food his drinking has become less often and less frantic.

I'm so excited and can't thank you enough for everything. Without you I'd probably still be shooting 1.75 at this point and wondering why he wasn't getting better. You help so many people. I'm not sure how you find the time but I for one would have been lost without you. Thank you.
 
I'm excited for your excitement. Pictured you jumping up and down in glee!! at the greens.

p.s. Your welcome. Retired. Some part time home/cat/garden sitting for a select small group of people. I make the time to help out people here. Weather is cold, snowy, icy, gloomy, foggy and too darn cold here in New England in the winter. Did I mention the cold? 11 degrees F this am. Too darn cold to enjoy eating outside on my screened in front porch. During the spring, summer and fall, you will not see me here much. Want to play out in my gardens and sit on the screened in porch to eat lunch, and dinner, and breakfast once it warms up enough.
 
Could be a bounce or could be husband induced unsure. I tested him before shot and he had that high number. I feed and gave him 3.25. Also thinking bounce.
Then I remembered how Bobby was worried about shooting him with lower numbers when I saw him as he was leaving work. I asked him this morning if he gave the 3.25 and he said no he gave 3. Not sure if that's enough of a difference to cause the 471 or not. Changed SS to reflect what he gave.
Teal'c is doing really well acting so much better. Still peeing a lot but hoping once we hold the lower numbers that will get better. Honestly yesterday litter box not too bad but today not as good.

Got the Zobaline yesterday gave him a tab today. Would be easier to put in food but since Shefoo and Teal'c share bowls I won't know how much he got. He honestly took the tab pretty well. I tried hiding it in a treat but he ate around pill and when done treat gone pill still there. So I just put in his month. He tried to give it back twice but did finally swallow it.
 
Bobby, Bobby, Bobby. Why? I understand. I do. Since Bobby won't home test, he's afraid that Teal'c will crash and he won't know how to bring the BG numbers back up.

Thought we found a good dose for Teal'c, with the 3.25.
He'll get back on track.

You can try mixing a couple of the foods together, see if he'll eat that.
Maybe only a little bit of one of Teal'cs less preferred flavors in with his current favorite.
 
Oh good idea for the food, had thought about donating to local rescue.

I talked to him about the dose and I do understand his fear cause I have the same fear leaving Teal'c with him and his refusal to test. Checked him before I left, he was 199 so let him know that it should be good to do the full dose. Didn't put anything in SS for tonight's shot will meet him at time clock in the morning to see what he did.

I can tell he is feeling better, he is feistier than he has been in a long time. Including not allowing me to use one of his ears lol. The other ear is ok. When we got him back from clinic he didn't even seem aware of any thing. Kind of still angry about that whole thing and if we travel again am going to look into other options. When we picked him up all they said is he had a ruff day and he was running very high. Nothing about maybe we need to increase his dose. I did call them after increasing to 3.25 to let them know and see what they said. When I told them what I had done they said who told you to increase his dose. My mind angrily said wasn't you. Then I told them no one.
The lady on the phone said you need to talk to a doctor and put me on hold I was transfer to a different vet then made the dx and I told her what I had done reading numbers from my SS she said you home test and was happy about that. Then told me to hold that dose for 2 to 3 weeks. I'm like ok in my mind I'm like whatever. They are clueless.
 
There is what vets learn in vet school, what they learn as they start to actually practice, learning more through reading journals, going to conferences , continuing education, simply gaining experience.Then there is the next level, the scientific researchers trying to learn more about how to treat cats and dogs with diabetes.

I'd place the knowledge base here as being more in tune with the day to day management of diabetes. It's like having a personal mentor to guide you.
 
Been thinking about this all day today. I'm off the next 3 days. Thinking since Bobby won't give the 3.25 units and gives 3 units for Teal'c's pm dose instead I would give the 3.25 right before I leave for work. So on nights I work Teal'c would get his shot 50 mins before his normal 12 hr dosing time. Might cause some overlapping but I have noticed his amps has been higher the past 2 days with Bobby giving the reduced dose. Have also seen post that state Prozinc is more forgiving on the 12/12.

What I'm proposing is I have the next 3 nights off. I want to do a pm curve one of those day using even hours +2, +4 and so on then another day do a pm curve of sorts using the odd hours +3, +5 and so on to give me a picture of what Teal'c is doing at night at 3.25 units. My fear is that he will be dropping to low to leave him at 3.25 with a man that won't test.
 
It is disappointing that he won't test. Some folks just can't handle it. At least he's giving injections. Is it possible to move both shot times up an hour? I know that might mean you end up setting an alarm for the first dose, which isn't a good plan for the long run, but it's all I could think of that might help.

You are right that ProZinc has more wiggle room when it comes to dosing times. Every 12 hours is optimal, but I can't fault you for wanting that PM test first. In most cats, ProZinc is long gone by +11, and looking at Teal'c's spreadsheet, it looks like his BGL is on the rise by +11, so you should be able to swing it. You could always give him food from the higher end of the carbs under 10% just to be a little safer with the early dose. For example, the Friskies Mariner's Catch and Seacaptains Choice are at 6% calories from carbs, while the other Friskies pates are lower.

So glad to hear Teal'c is starting to feel better and be more feisty! That is such a positive sign!
 
Ok, I understand your proposal.

What you are proposing is closer to 11/13 hour dosing or 13/11 hour dosing form the Advanced Information for Prozinc Users.

11/13 OR 13/11 DOSING

If your cat consistently has a lower AMPS or PMPS (or vise versa) AND IS NOT BOUNCING CONSISTENTLY, you might consider shooting early for the higher pre-shot number and later for the lower pre-shot number.

If the AMPS is high or normal, but 12 hours later the PMPS is too low either because of long duration and/or the nadir is late, you have two options:
  • 1. Shoot the am dose one hour early (+11 relative to previous night’s pm dose) and leave the pm dose at normal time which will then be +13 since the am dose.
  • - OR -
  • 2. Leave the am dose at its normal time and shoot the pm dose one hour later which will be +13 since am dose. Either way, you need to see this as an issue and pattern over a few cycles to go this route.

This technique can also be used if the PMPS is high and the AMPS is too low.

The hope here is to smooth out the cycle and have two shootable numbers every 12 hours. It would, as always, be wise to seek advice from your vet or on the forum about this technique."

The thing is, you are proposing to shoot later for the higher pre-shot number and earlier for the lower pre-shot number.
Not sure what that would do to the numbers.
 
True never thought about that. In my mind part of the reason he is higher at amps is because Bobby is only giving 3 units instead of 3.25 but then thinking about it with the 13 hours between pm and am shot probable won't make much of a difference.

New thought is I prep the dose for him before I leave for work that way he doesn't have to figure out what 3.25 is. Really I think it's not that he is afraid of Teal'c going low I think it's because its easier to draw up 3 units versus 3.25. I do know he cares about Teal'c he always ask what my last test was as he is leaving work to go home. I know about the lubricant but it would only set for 50 mins. Any thoughts? Just trying to find a way to give the same dose am and pm.

Monday through Thursday I will be able to give pm shots I'm off Monday through Wednesday and not scheduled to work till 2 hours after his pm shot time or 7:00pm. The rest of the week I'm working 5 to 5 12 hour shifts. It's just Friday through Sunday I have to rely on Bobby for the pm shot.
 
Never mind I'll just try talking to him and explain how important it is that we give the same dose am and pm. Go from there. Wish I didn't have to work so I would not have to rely on someone else.
 
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Patty & Teal'c said:
New thought is I prep the dose for him before I leave for work that way he doesn't have to figure out what 3.25 is.
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Patty, if it's only 50 minutes, it's fine to pre-fill the syringe.

That way, Bobby does not have to figure out if the 3.25U dose you draw up is the same as the 3.25U dose he draws up.

Win-win situation. Go ahead and pre-fill that insulin syringe.

You simply do not want to prefill an insulin syringe more than a couple of hours ahead of time. Prefilling a syringe days ahead of time, can lead to less effectiveness of the insulin. That is because the lubricant in the syringe affects the insulin.
 
All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
Thank you for that information will be doing some reading. This mornings numbers were a bit of a shock. All I could think is either I skip, shoot a full dose or be safe and shoot lower didn't want to skip. Then the problem was figuring what I felt safe with shooting think I could of given him more then i did kept telling myself better high for a day then to low for a minute.
He was at 301 at +7 this afternoon to me that's an indication that I could have gone higher. So how does one figure out what would be the right dose. Or do you just dose according to what your heart and head is telling you.

When I took down his food bowl to set up his food and it was empty so the 140 wasn't because he wasn't eating. Guess it was just Teal'c throwing me another curve lol.
I'm off the next 3 day so am going to run a curve during the night to see how low he goes at night on this dose. However, I'm wondering if tonight's numbers will be a misrepresentation of what a normal night would be because of the lower dose today. I'm guessing I'll be shooting off a higher number tonight. So would tomorrow be better?
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
So how does one figure out what would be the right dose. Or do you just dose according to what your heart and head is telling you.
Click to expand...
That and experience with knowing how low a dose takes YOUR cat. "Know Thy Cat."
Patty & Teal'c said:
Then the problem was figuring what I felt safe with shooting think I could of given him more then i did kept telling myself better high for a day then to low for a minute.
Click to expand...
Yes, that is good thinking.

Patty & Teal'c said:
So would tomorrow be better?
Click to expand...
A curve tomorrow would be better. For the reason you stated, the reduced dose this morning.
 
Forgot to mention I feed him some LC food to help slow the drop. Yes that's right I carried the bowl to him in the testing chair and held it while he ate. I am owned by a cat lol.
 
You had a bit of bounce for that pre-shot test I see. Then some nice green numbers, and starting to come back up. You could get some bounce from the greens, so don't be surprised if amps is a bit high. Now, you're doing the SLGS method, so remember that drop under 90 is telling you to reduce the dose. I would seriously consider going back down to 3 units for 3 cycles and see how he does. You reduced dose yesterday, you had to reduce dose this morning, I really think Teal'c is telling you he's ready for less insulin now. Remind yourself that nadirs tell you when to adjust dose, not pre-shot numbers.
 
I have been wondering if a reduction was in order loved the greens but scared me enough . He would meow and I was running to see why he made a noise lol. The reductions at the pm shots was cause husband would not do 3.25 not a true reduction. Then the 140 am was quite the suprise. Think I could have giving a larger dose this morning but also didn't want to give too much. Expected the over 400 pmps cause of only giving 1 unit but expected him to also run a bit high tonight so the greens tonight were also a suprise. I fed him LC food twice tonight to keep him from going lower. I'm worried about reducing and losing what he has gained. Thinking the 3.25 is the break thru point and small reductions might be in order. Been doing a lot of reading tonight to try and figure my next step.
 
Oh, duh! I totally forgot about husband and the not doing the right dose in the evening! At any rate, yes, a .25 reduction is in order. An hey, I know you aren't used to those greens, but they are lovely. There's nothing to worry about unless Teal'c goes under 50. But there's certainly no harm in checking to make sure he doesn't fall too far. That's just being smart.
 
Agree with what Juls said.
Teal'c was ready for another dose reduction, down to 3 units.

From the Prozinc Protocol on SLGS method.
Reducing the Dose:
  • Anytime the BG drops below 90 mg/dL, reduce the dose by 0.25u at the next shot.
 
Yes I agree and did do a reduction to 3 today. He is high today but that could be a result of the greens last night. Was really suprise by the green even after the 1 unit yesterday morning.

From what I've been reading the good numbers could be a result of breaking through what I think was glucose toxicity from when I held him to long at 1.75 and if that is the case reducing is what is called for at this time.

Teal'c looks really good now. Bobby even noticed today. Thank you all.

Was going to do a curve tonight but since we have changed dose I'll give it a couple cycles possible do one tomorrow night. At that point he would be on his 4th cycle at 3u.
 
187 Amps did give dose have shot on that number before. Hoping this is a sign that he cleared the bounce quickly. Have to get some more test strips if you think a curve would be good tonight. Happy with the direction he has been heading lately.

Giving him his Zobaline this morning I got a whiff of his breath. Did not smell good at all. Going to make an appointment to have what teeth he has left looked at. They pulled some a few years ago.
 
Nice AMPS number! Poor thing. I hope he doesn't have to have more teeth out. Might want to test for ketones, just to be safe. Although I think that would be a sweet smell rather than a bad one.
 
Patty & Teal'c said:
this morning I got a whiff of his breath. Did not smell good at all.
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What kind of a smell Patty?
Like urine?
Like nail polish remover, acetone, sweet smelling? Like overripe bananas?
Or some other type of smell?
Have you done a ketone test today?

Yes, more test strips please. Curve today would be good.
 
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The smell is similar to when something in the refrigerator turns. Wasn't real strong but was there.

Have my cling wrap in hand waiting for him to make a move to the litter box. 70 @+6 I'm wondering if he was any lower then that. He keeps getting into pretty numbers but scary area.
 
Fridge science experiments? Something that has gotten moved to the back of the fridge and forgotten?
Moldy or vinegar or rotten spoiled smell?
 
Morning breath kind of. It wasn't real strong and right now he is wondering about me cause I keep trying to smell his breath lol. I smell nothing now. Still want to have teeth checked.

Im wondering what a good no shot or reduced dose might be. I'm thinking if I get another below 150 number if 1/2 the dose might be better then what I gave on 2/24. That at current dose would be 1.5. Hate not giving him anything but also know there is a possibility I might see what would be a no shot number and trying to figure out what that number would be. Not trying to complicate things but in my mind would that number be different if I'm heading to work.

My head is spinning things changed so quickly. With the higher numbers there wasn't any question but now I want to be ready for anything and be able to decide my course of action. But I am so happy seeing better numbers.
 
Okay, you got a 70, which is under 90, so Teal'c is telling you it's time to reduce again. I recommend next shot try 2.75.
Now, that 70 is nothing at all to be scared of, unless he drops lower. 70 is an awesome mid-cycle number. But I totally get not wanting to do a full dose if he's under 200. On the other hand, he's done fine today so far. Maybe your stop and think number should be 180. Over 180, normal dose. Between 150-180, maybe a half dose.

Getting ketones tested is great. But I understand not being sure what you smelled. We get so hyper-attentive to our sugar cats that the least little sign can freak us out.
 
Yes he cleared that bounce in 1 cycle and came back with some really good numbers. So sudden. So happy. Still believe it's because we had to break past the glucose toxicity. Now just to dial in the right dose. Did shoot the 1.5 will monitor thru the night got new strips and treats.
 
I gave him 1.5 tonight because of the lower pmps. To my surprise his numbers have been decent tonight. Was not going to run a curve but just going to keep a good eye on him. But at my first test he had a 159 and part of me wondered if and when he would go way up so far he hasn't, decided to kind of run a curve to see where he would go, so far not too bad. Can't wait to see the +10 to see where he is at by then. I'm still surprised at how good he did tonight.
 
Never even got to 300. 279 amps. Was slightly worried about giving the 2.75 but don't want to lower it to fast. Going to be laying down soon will try to get up around +5, +6 to check on him.
 
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