Dosing Question

Dana & Ninja

Dana & Ninja

Member
I have a dosing question. Last night at PMPS Ninja was below 200. I stalled, consulted the main forum board and after he rose a bit I did give him his normal dose of 1.75. It's all on the spread sheet. I checked Ninja a couple times last night. At +8 he dropped to 76. I gave him about 2 tbsp of FF. Waited and hour and rechecked at +9. Went back to bed, Lol. This morning he was 187, I didn't have time to stall as I had to get to work, so I dropped his dose down to 1.25. Do you think that will cause a bounce? Should have have given him the 1.75? I have it stuck in my head that no shot if below 200, but then he does bounce. Man...I wish they had a reliable CGM for cats!! LOL.
 
Bounce is going to happen sometimes. It's part of it. Here's a simplified explanation. Insulin or a healing pancreas gets kitty's body to lower BGL numbers than the cat is used too. Even if these numbers are still high, the liver freaks out, mistaking it for a hypo. "We're crashing!" it shouts. "Release all the stored sugar!" Bam. You get bounce. Bounce can take a few days to clear completely. Then, it can always happen again.

You are right to be cautious with readings under 200, but as Deb says, that's more of a stop and think number than a no shoot number. I think you were smart to drop dose this morning. Tonight, maybe try going back to 1.5, if he is over 200 and give that a few days.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Bounce is going to happen sometimes. It's part of it. Here's a simplified explanation. Insulin or a healing pancreas gets kitty's body to lower BGL numbers than the cat is used too. Even if these numbers are still high, the liver freaks out, mistaking it for a hypo. "We're crashing!" it shouts. "Release all the stored sugar!" Bam. You get bounce. Bounce can take a few days to clear completely. Then, it can always happen again.

You are right to be cautious with readings under 200, but as Deb says, that's more of a stop and think number than a no shoot number. I think you were smart to drop dose this morning. Tonight, maybe try going back to 1.5, if he is over 200 and give that a few days.
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Ok thank you. We were doing 1.5 for several days and decided to bump up the dose to 1.75 in hopes to get his numbers just a bit lower. He has dropped in his numbers but perhaps 1.75 is just a bit too high. Maybe he needs a fat 1.5. IDK, it truly seems to be a guessing game to me.
 
Hi Dana, I have some notes I made early this morning that I wanted to pass along to you.

1. Asking for help. Better to do this on the Feline Health (Welcome & Main) forum. More people there to help. Even then, someone may not see your post and respond quickly enough. Why? There are only so many hours in a day and only so many volunteers to help out. (Had 4 new members Tuesday, 3 of them not eating, 2 of them recent DKA and discharged from vet hospital. Prioritized my responses.)

If low BG numbers <50 and getting insulin, put that 911 prefix on your post, and state HYPO NUMBERS, HELP, Ninja.
If BG numbers are > 50, put Need Help, STALLING, PROZINC, Ninja.
If BG numbers are > 150, put Need Help, STALLING, PROZINC, Ninja, new lows for us.

Sometimes, you will have to make the best call you can, for the situation you find yourself in, with the knowledge you have gained already.
 
Understanding/ considerations when Stalling.

When you are stalling, trying to see if the BG level will rise enough without food, you have to consider a few things.
First, Prozinc has a 1 hour flexibility in dosing. So if you shoot late one cycle, you can still shoot at the same time the next cycle.

1. So Dana, how long does your schedule permit you to stall? This can be different in the PM cycle and the AM cycle. Can be different on some days, like work days, than others, like the weekends.

Second, the 200 mg/dL threshold BG number is a "stop and consider what to do number", used at the beginning. When someone is new to diabetes, new to the message board, new to home testing, maybe their cat is uncooperative with the shots, with the testing process. It can be tough to get those tests in at the beginning.
As you gain experience with testing, knowing how your cat responds to the insulin, that "threshold" number can be lowered.

2. Dana, what do you think that "threshold" number should be for Ninja? Not forever. For now. For the next week or two?

Third, knowing when the onset, nadir, duration for this particular insulin happens for YOUR cat, can help guide you. "Know thy cat."

3. So Dana, When is the onset, nadir and duration for Ninja with Prozinc? Look at your SS and tell me what you think. Is there enough data there to tell you?

Fourth, if you never learn to shoot the low numbers, you'll never get your cat regulated. Or to remission. If that is a goal.
Personally, I think getting our diabetic cats to feel better, to see their symptoms of P/u, P/d, gaining back some much needed weight, playing, purring and grooming themselves is a worthwhile goal. Happy cat = happy caregiver.

4. What is your short term goal, longer term goal, ultimate goal for Ninja? Those can be different too.

Fifth and last for now, ask yourself if there are areas where you think you don't know enough? There may be areas where you feel weaker in knowledge than others. Try to sit down and think about how to strengthen your knowledge.

5. How do you learn more? How can we help you? What areas do you need to work on to feel more comfortable in treating Ninja?
 
What guidelines do you use to increase and lower the dose?

I know we have been suggesting increases and decreases. But if we were not here as your support system, how would you decide what dose to give Ninja?

p.s. Trying to make you think about when and why you are doing things with the diabetes treatment.
Don't panic. We are not going anywhere. Not even to Ireland soon. ;)
 
Clearly I have a lot more to learn. I don’t under the whole onset, nadir, duration yet so I will research that. Have homework for the weekend. No I do not think there is enough data. I think I need to do curves for an entire cycle. His poor little ears, but I think that is the only way I will know what is truly going on in a cycle. Had to stall twice tonight with the PMPS, made the decision to give a skinny 1.5. Guess I’ll see tonight how it goes.
 
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Had a hypo last night, gave him 1/4 cup glycobalance and a few greenies cat treats. He came up within the hour. I went back to bed. This morning he was 459. Ugh. Did I mess up by giving him the glycobalance?? I gave him 1.5 units this morning. Going to do another curve this weekend. Do you all think I should do a curve for 3 12hr shifts or just one. I don't know why but I feel like I am spinning. Feeling lost. : (
 
Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.

No, you did not "mess up" by feeding Ninja dry food to get his BG levels back up. (I'd say something stronger, but some people would be offended.)

You did whatever you needed to do to bring Ninja's BG levels back up safely. Feed dry glycobalance, some greenies dry cat treats, whatever you need to feed to bring the BG levels back up.

Did Ninja have hypo symptoms?:bookworm:
Or did he only test low at that 53?:bookworm:

Automatic dose reduction earned when you hit a low like that 53. o_O

Next time, try a little bit of his regular food first, then try some medium carb food, then try some high carb food. Then try some simple sugar - honey, maple syrup, corn syrup, ice cream, whatever you have on hand that is mostly sugar. Sugar brings the BG levels up fast, but wears off quicker.

Wet food is digested quicker than dry food. Dry food has to get broken down by the stomach acids, before it gets digested and some glucose can get into the bloodstream. Dry food will take a few days to clear out of Ninja's digestive system. So what. It's what you needed to do.

Think of what you do as a nurse at school, if a diabetic kid has low blood sugar. Fruit juice, lots of sugar in fruit juice. Don't think may cats like fruit juice, but there are other foods to use. See above list of simple sugars.

One curve this weekend is fine.

I'd suggest Sunday as your curve day, since you will need to reduce the dose for tonight to 1.25U of Prozinc. Then you have the bouncing to account for, so doing a curve on Saturday AM cycle will not provide you as much useful data.

Ninja will get back on track, you will feel less lost, you will not be on the "tilt-a-whirl" carnival ride all the time.

:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

p.s. @Noah & me (GA)
@jt and trouble (GA)
@Juls and Billy
Emotional support crew needed here.
 
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It was 12:30 am when I checked him and got the 53, I had been asleep, and I had set my alarm to wake at that time because something in my gut said to keep an eye him. He was sleeping on my bed so I had to wake him up too to do the check. So I don't know if he was symptomatic or not. Lol! I guess I should have given him 1.25 this morning then. Darn it. Will do 1.25 tonight and thru the weekend with a curve on Sunday. Will be thankful when I can get off the tilt a whirl. I never did like carnival rides. LOL.
 
Gut feelings should be listened to. Always.

Loved carnival rides when I was a kid. Amusement park across the lake, ferry ride across to get there. Then as an adult, motion sickness set in. :confused: Boat rides didn't use to faze me. Now, need "the patch" to go on a whale watching trip.
 
Dana, you're being too hard on yourself. Diabetes can be simple, it was for me with two low maintenance cats, or you can face daily challenges that never seem to end.
We've all been there wondering if we just killed our cat only to find him sleeping. That's called an error in judgment.
A big mistake is when someone compares the price of insulin against those new shoes and decides it's "better for the cat" to have him put down. That's what is commonly called a Lazy-Ass and you won't find that here. You'll learn as you go, it's not chemotherapy or rocket surgery (brain science?) and soon enough this will be second nature to you. I wouldn't recommend it but as a frequent migraine sufferer I could test and shoot in the dark and my dosing protocol was "That seems about right".
Stop crying and start trusting your new friends. :bighug:
 
Dana, want to know one of the things I'll remember so clearly about you and your commitment to Ninja?

You took him on a 2+ hour drive to your sisters for the Christmas holiday because he had been newly diagnosed and you were not willing to leave him behind at home with his feline bros, Jasper and Smokey. With only a new cat sitter to watch over him.

You've also switched him from Vetsulin (aka Dog insulin or Caninsulin) to Prozinc, changed up the diet for all the cats in your house, upended your life to care for Ninja, still have a full time job and a teen aged son.
Life is full to overflowing for you.

Don't wait too long to let us know when the upcoming trip to good old IRL is. We have some suggestions for you while he is being boarded. March sometime is all I remember. Getting old, senility sets in fast some days.;)



p.s. Thank you Dickson.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Dana, want to know one of the things I'll remember so clearly about you and your commitment to Ninja?

You took him on a 2+ hour drive to your sisters for the Christmas holiday because he had been newly diagnosed and you were not willing to leave him behind at home with his feline bros, Jasper and Smokey. With only a new cat sitter to watch over him.

You've also switched him from Vetsulin (aka Dog insulin or Caninsulin) to Prozinc, changed up the diet for all the cats in your house, upended your life to care for Ninja, still have a full time job and a teen aged son.
Life is full to overflowing for you.

Don't wait too long to let us know when the upcoming trip to good old IRL is. We have some suggestions for you while he is being boarded. March sometime is all I remember. Getting old, senility sets in fast some days.;)



p.s. Thank you Dickson.
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Thank you for this Deb. Just trying to do my best by Ninja. He and all my kitties were what got me thru my horrid divorce so they deserve for me to be there for them. I am very busy, but manage. Overthinking is my downfall most times. LOL. My son and I are looking very forward to our trip. We leave March 28th and return April 5th. Ninja will be with my Vet in a "kitty condo" all by himself, away from the dogs so hopefully his stress won't be too bad. He will there March 27th until April 6th. Would love some suggestions for him to make his stay comfortable.
 
Note the vacation dates on your SS.

Take an old shirt or piece of clothing with you. So Ninja smells "YOU" on the clothing.
Take his favorite cat bed if they will allow it. And some of his favorite toys.

Take the food he is used to eating, and make sure the staff knows not to feed Ninja anything else.
Will the vet boarding place be using your vial of Prozinc? or their own?

How often will they be testing Ninja? Before every pre-shot I hope.
Staff there 24 hours a day or only limited hours?
 
Hi Dana! Take a look at Billy's spreadsheet, day 5, when he tested pre-pmshot at 52. Yeah, Brian and me completely freaked out and basically fed him the entire cupboard, even though he had no symptoms of hypo. It didn't hurt Billy one bit. You may get higher readings from bounce and having some high carb food, but it will settle down. We'd been working on reducing Billy's dose when that happened, but it wasn't fast enough. It's certainly time to reduce Ninja's dose. Don't dose based on those pre-shot numbers, even if they are higher. Look at Billy's day four. Those green numbers mid-cycle are what told us to reduce dose, not his pre-shot numbers. He was at 317 at day 5's am pre-shot. Now, imagine what might have happened if we had kept his dose the same on day five, or even raised it because of that 317. Nothing good, that's what would have happened.

You did awesome taking care of Ninja when his BGL was low. Don't worry about higher numbers for 2-3 days, not unless you can get his mid-cycle tests. Sure, that high carb food will have an effect, but it will even out. You did what was best for Ninja at the time.

Now, because I write for a living and don't know when to shut up. :) Look at Billy's day 9. Morning pre-shot was red, 433! I was so very tempted to raise his dose that morning. I didn't. I'd decided to hold at 1 unit unless his mid-cycle tests were high, so I made myself stick to that 1 unit plan. That same morning, Billy dropped down to 89. He really didn't need more insulin, he was just having some bounce.

We all second guess ourselves. But you are doing great. Our kitties need time to get better, and it's never a steady progression. Sometimes, for example, you'll find yourself needing to raise a dose one day, and a couple days later you might need to lower it. It all depends on how much insulin Ninja's pancreas decided to make at the time. That's why we test. And that's why Ninja is doing great today, despite that scary low. Because Ninja's mama is awesome.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Note the vacation dates on your SS.

Take an old shirt or piece of clothing with you. So Ninja smells "YOU" on the clothing.
Take his favorite cat bed if they will allow it. And some of his favorite toys.

Take the food he is used to eating, and make sure the staff knows not to feed Ninja anything else.
Will the vet boarding place be using your vial of Prozinc? or their own?

How often will they be testing Ninja? Before every pre-shot I hope.
Staff there 24 hours a day or only limited hours?
Click to expand...

Thank you for the suggestions:
Note the vacation dates on your SS. Ok will do

Take an old shirt or piece of clothing with you. So Ninja smells "YOU" on the clothing. Great Idea!!
Take his favorite cat bed if they will allow it. He doesn't use a cat bed, just my lap and a bed pillow so I will take that. And some of his favorite toys. Ok. Loves his little soccer balls!!

Take the food he is used to eating, and make sure the staff knows not to feed Ninja anything else. Yes! Definitely!!!
Will the vet boarding place be using your vial of Prozinc? or their own? I am planning on taking my vial and syringes.

How often will they be testing Ninja? Before every pre-shot I hope. I am going to insist that they check before each shot. I am hoping he will be a little more consitent with his dose by then too, so I can tell them what it is.
Staff there 24 hours a day or only limited hours? I am sure they will only be there from about 7am to 5pm. But better than being at home with no one but once a day checking on him.

I am just praying everything will be ok with him while I am gone. I am definitely going to let them what his routine is. Hopefully it will be more consistent.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Hi Dana! Take a look at Billy's spreadsheet, day 5, when he tested pre-pmshot at 52. Yeah, Brian and me completely freaked out and basically fed him the entire cupboard, even though he had no symptoms of hypo. It didn't hurt Billy one bit. You may get higher readings from bounce and having some high carb food, but it will settle down. We'd been working on reducing Billy's dose when that happened, but it wasn't fast enough. It's certainly time to reduce Ninja's dose. Don't dose based on those pre-shot numbers, even if they are higher. Look at Billy's day four. Those green numbers mid-cycle are what told us to reduce dose, not his pre-shot numbers. He was at 317 at day 5's am pre-shot. Now, imagine what might have happened if we had kept his dose the same on day five, or even raised it because of that 317. Nothing good, that's what would have happened.

You did awesome taking care of Ninja when his BGL was low. Don't worry about higher numbers for 2-3 days, not unless you can get his mid-cycle tests. Sure, that high carb food will have an effect, but it will even out. You did what was best for Ninja at the time.

Now, because I write for a living and don't know when to shut up. :) Look at Billy's day 9. Morning pre-shot was red, 433! I was so very tempted to raise his dose that morning. I didn't. I'd decided to hold at 1 unit unless his mid-cycle tests were high, so I made myself stick to that 1 unit plan. That same morning, Billy dropped down to 89. He really didn't need more insulin, he was just having some bounce.

We all second guess ourselves. But you are doing great. Our kitties need time to get better, and it's never a steady progression. Sometimes, for example, you'll find yourself needing to raise a dose one day, and a couple days later you might need to lower it. It all depends on how much insulin Ninja's pancreas decided to make at the time. That's why we test. And that's why Ninja is doing great today, despite that scary low. Because Ninja's mama is awesome.
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We were actually trying a dose increase. We switched to Prozinc on 1/26/20. Started at 1 unit, increased to 1.25 then 1.5, then increased to 1.75 with hopes his numbers would come down just a bit more. But with the 1.75 everything went wonky. So going to go back to 1.25 and see what happens there. Still learning lots. So thankful for this site!!!
 
Absolutely. Just remember sometimes that dose increase may need to drop back down fairly quickly. It all depends on the mid-cycle tests. Sometimes that higher dose for a day or two is what kickstarts the pancreas into getting back into the swing of things. Or sometimes the dose may be great, or the cat will need more. Dosage can need to change from one day to the next, if that's whats needed.
 
Juls and Billy said:
Absolutely. Just remember sometimes that dose increase may need to drop back down fairly quickly. It all depends on the mid-cycle tests. Sometimes that higher dose for a day or two is what kickstarts the pancreas into getting back into the swing of things. Or sometimes the dose may be great, or the cat will need more. Dosage can need to change from one day to the next, if that's whats needed.
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Well that must be what is needed here. I am a nurse and many times we go by a sliding scale for humans. but that scale comes from the doctor and has the parameters all laid out. "If the blood sugar is this give this much insulin" and so forth With Ninja I feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pants!! LOL!!
 
I've developed a few "sliding scale" dosing guidelines for a couple of specific cats lately. But that has been for cats that have specifically been down in the blue ranges with the BG tests and need a tiny tweak, 1 or 2 drops of insulin to bring the numbers a bit lower.

Don't think Ninja is ready for that stage yet.

Sliding scale dosing is in the Sticky in the Prozinc forum called
Advanced Information for Experienced ProZinc/PZI Users


"ADVANCED DOSING OPTIONS
If you are 100% certain you have given Start Low, Go Slow a fair shake and:
  • Have ruled out any and all treatment errors/ missteps. Have a SS already showing ample data (a month’s worth, at minimum)
  • Have a SS already showing ample data (a month's worth, at a minimum)
  • Have your cat on low-carb meals to achieve/ maintain optimum weight
  • You know for certain that your cat is NOT getting into any contraband food sources
  • You have already ruled out any hidden additional health problems with your vet that could complicate treatment ...
Then you may want to consider trying one of the advanced dosing options shown below. Before you proceed, please post on the forum for advice from experienced members of this forum and consult your veterinarian if you have any questions or concerns about safe treatment of your cat.

SLIDING SCALE DOSING

If your cat is having pre-shots in different ranges and it seems dangerous or ineffective to shoot the same dose for each pre-shot, you can consider shooting different doses for different ranges. (For example, giving 2 units on a 400 mg/dL {22 mmol/L} pre-shot can produce different results than giving 2 units on a 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L} pre-shot.) Note: It is best to have an experienced member look at your spreadsheet history and suggest some ranges/ doses. Once you are comfortable with the concept, you might adjust on your own."

The one month minimum data collection would be for the insulin you are currently using. The Prozinc.

You may want to drop the dose lower when he is at the vet boarding. Safer that way, in case Ninja does not eat as well while being boarded. Probably drop the dose somewhere between 0.25U to 0.5U, but we'll help you decide as your vacation gets closer.
 
My oh my! You are doing great! WAY better than what I went through with my Trouble. I am SO impressed. Wow I cant get over how well. Is there some way you can share your secret? I need lessons from YOU!

Remember the only stupid question is the one not asked. You've done fabulous so far. Ninja is one lucky kitty.

Deb you are one AMAZING person!
 
Deb & Wink said:
I've developed a few "sliding scale" dosing guidelines for a couple of specific cats lately. But that has been for cats that have specifically been down in the blue ranges with the BG tests and need a tiny tweak, 1 or 2 drops of insulin to bring the numbers a bit lower.

Don't think Ninja is ready for that stage yet.

Sliding scale dosing is in the Sticky in the Prozinc forum called
Advanced Information for Experienced ProZinc/PZI Users


"ADVANCED DOSING OPTIONS
If you are 100% certain you have given Start Low, Go Slow a fair shake and:
  • Have ruled out any and all treatment errors/ missteps. Have a SS already showing ample data (a month’s worth, at minimum)
  • Have a SS already showing ample data (a month's worth, at a minimum)
  • Have your cat on low-carb meals to achieve/ maintain optimum weight
  • You know for certain that your cat is NOT getting into any contraband food sources
  • You have already ruled out any hidden additional health problems with your vet that could complicate treatment ...
Then you may want to consider trying one of the advanced dosing options shown below. Before you proceed, please post on the forum for advice from experienced members of this forum and consult your veterinarian if you have any questions or concerns about safe treatment of your cat.

SLIDING SCALE DOSING

If your cat is having pre-shots in different ranges and it seems dangerous or ineffective to shoot the same dose for each pre-shot, you can consider shooting different doses for different ranges. (For example, giving 2 units on a 400 mg/dL {22 mmol/L} pre-shot can produce different results than giving 2 units on a 200 mg/dL {11 mmol/L} pre-shot.) Note: It is best to have an experienced member look at your spreadsheet history and suggest some ranges/ doses. Once you are comfortable with the concept, you might adjust on your own."

The one month minimum data collection would be for the insulin you are currently using. The Prozinc.

You may want to drop the dose lower when he is at the vet boarding. Safer that way, in case Ninja does not eat as well while being boarded. Probably drop the dose somewhere between 0.25U to 0.5U, but we'll help you decide as your vacation gets closer.
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Wow, good to know, but yeah, we might not be there quite yet. I do think dropping his dose while he is at the kitty condo is a good idea and I welcome suggestions!!
 
jt and trouble (GA) said:
My oh my! You are doing great! WAY better than what I went through with my Trouble. I am SO impressed. Wow I cant get over how well. Is there some way you can share your secret? I need lessons from YOU!

Remember the only stupid question is the one not asked. You've done fabulous so far. Ninja is one lucky kitty.

Deb you are one AMAZING person!
Click to expand...


Thank you, but I don’t think I have any secrets to share. Lol! And YES Deb is AMAZING1
 
Stop. You're making me blush. And I'm a very fair skinned person so I blush real easy.:oops::oops::oops: See those bright red cheeks?

Dana, I tagged a few people to come give you some encouraging words.
All 3 of them did. We are a community here, but sometimes the Prozinc and Caninsulin/Vetsulin ISG forums get "neglected."

Thanks to all of you. Jeanne, Dickson, Juls.

Sometimes, if it's only me, people don't understand how really well they are doing taking care of their cats. So thanks for chiming in on Dana's thread for her kitty Ninja.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Stop. You're making me blush. And I'm a very fair skinned person so I blush real easy.:oops::oops::oops: See those bright red cheeks?

Dana, I tagged a few people to come give you some encouraging words.
All 3 of them did. We are a community here, but sometimes the Prozinc and Caninsulin/Vetsulin ISG forums get "neglected."

Thanks to all of you. Jeanne, Dickson, Juls.

Sometimes, if it's only me, people don't understand how really well they are doing taking care of their cats. So thanks for chiming in on Dana's thread for her kitty Ninja.
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❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️

Here is Ninja this morning playing with one of his soccer balls. He’s still playing as I type. Please forgive the mess, Saturday’s are house cleaning days. Jasper is doing his beached whale impression as as bonus.
 
Sorry Dana, all I really noticed were the 2 cats and the Chewy box.

Plus Ninja looks like his back legs are stiff. Arthritis? Hip issues?
 
Ok, Morning shot was 1.25. Been checking him every 3 hours. +9 he is 71. Tried to give him some FF but he wouldn’t eat it. Gave him some cat treats. Does this warrant a dose decrease at the upcoming PM shot? @Deb & Wink No s/s of hypo, started to play after the cat treats.
 
Yes Dana, I would drop the dose back to 1U for Ninja.

Ninja went up the dosing scale and now he is coming back down.

p.s. I was away for a while at one of my cat sitting gigs.
 
Up and down the dosing scale my occur for weeks or months, with multiple times going up and down, up and down. Until finally, it's down, down ,down, to where you kitty doesn't want insulin anymore.
 
Dana & Ninja said:
@Deb & Wink today’s curve question, warrant another dose decrease? Or stay with the one unit?
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No I would not decrease Ninja's dose because of his curve today.
Why?
He just "earned" a dose reduction yesterday, 2/22/20.

He got down to a 74 at +4 on the 1U shot today.
When a cat earns a dose reduction, by dropping low at mid-cycle, it's a good idea to try and hold the dose for at least 6 cycles. Unless the BG readings tell you otherwise. For instance, if they drop even lower at mid-cycle, <65. Then you need to reduce even sooner.

Doing dose reductions too close together, can mean the reduced dose won't hold. And Ninja will shoot back up and you'll need to increase the dose again.

The BG mid-cycle tests are saying, "dropping low here" , so "let's keep the dose here" for a few cycles.

The pre-shot tests are the last ones to go down when using Prozinc. Don't rely only on the pre-shot tests, to tell you how Ninja is doing on a particular dose. Look at the mid-cycle nadirs, and give them a bit more weight than the pre-shot tests right now.

Also take into consideration when you did the last dose increase or decrease.

p.s. Reading the SS is as much an art as it is a science.

When is your PMPS for tonight? How many hours from now?
 
Deb & Wink said:
No I would not decrease Ninja's dose because of his curve today.
Why?
He just "earned" a dose reduction yesterday, 2/22/20.

He got down to a 74 at +4 on the 1U shot today.
When a cat earns a dose reduction, by dropping low at mid-cycle, it's a good idea to try and hold the dose for at least 6 cycles. Unless the BG readings tell you otherwise. For instance, if they drop even lower at mid-cycle, <65. Then you need to reduce even sooner.

Doing dose reductions too close together, can mean the reduced dose won't hold. And Ninja will shoot back up and you'll need to increase the dose again.

The BG mid-cycle tests are saying, "dropping low here" , so "let's keep the dose here" for a few cycles.

The pre-shot tests are the last ones to go down when using Prozinc. Don't rely only on the pre-shot tests, to tell you how Ninja is doing on a particular dose. Look at the mid-cycle nadirs, and give them a bit more weight than the pre-shot tests right now.

Also take into consideration when you did the last dose increase or decrease.

p.s. Reading the SS is as much an art as it is a science.

When is your PMPS for tonight? How many hours from now?
Click to expand...
It is 5pm now and PMPS IS 7:30pm.
 
That PMPS is 9:30 PM my time, and I'm usually fast asleep by then.

Maybe @Juls and Billy will be up later and could help you.

If not, use your best judgement when you get the pre-shot test.
You stalled last night for 30 minutes, and his BG went up quite a bit.
He also seems really stubborn about eating Fancy Feast or any wet cat food when his BG numbers are low.

If the glycobalance or the greenies are all he will eat, then give him those. But first, try crushing some of the glycobalance or greenies and sprinkling that on top of the wet food.

Or push a couple of pieces of the glycobalance or greenies down into the wet food, see if he'll eat some of the wet food that way.

If 1 Tablespoon of the glucobalance only brought his BG numbers up from 74 to 89 in 2 hours this morning, maybe he does need another dose reduction.
 
I should be able to check in at 7:30, 9:30 my time.

Okay, it's 10:00 your time, so I'm guessing things went well. I will be checking back in later.
 
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Hi Dana, I simply wanted to make you aware of this.

All the "Sticky" or pinned posts in the Prozinc forum have been updated and there are a couple of new ones.

Highly recommend that everyone using Prozinc or helping those using Prozinc read them thoroughly.

I'll be doing that myself. Been expecting this for some time. Came about a week before I thought it would.
Thanks Marje, and Robert, and especially Djamila for the Modified Prozinc Method. You folks are FANTASTIC!
 
Hi Deb! Ninja and are doing good. Have settled into a routine. He’s not fighting me on the injections anymore. Has realized it only takes a second and then he can eat. I haven’t been testing in between the injections. He seems to be happy. Eating, pooping, peeing and playing and his fur is glisteningly shiny. I’ve ordered my second bottle of Prozinc, should be here in a day or two I hope. I am thinking when I start the new bottle I will do a curve as I have heard that the longer you have a bootle of insulin it can lose some potency. I don’t know if that is true or not, but a curve isn’t a bad idea anytime I think. Our whole town is shut down as are many are around the union, so we are just happy hangin at home. Hope all is well with you and yours!
 
Glad to hear you are ok. Everything being shut down is hard to deal with, since we all need groceries.

Dana & Ninja said:
I haven’t been testing in between the injections.
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You might want to reconsider that. To see how low this 1.25U dose is dropping Ninja mid-cycle.

Dana & Ninja said:
but a curve isn’t a bad idea anytime I think.
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Yes a curve is a good idea. Prozinc can lose it's potency over time, a bit more than something like lantus does.

Doing my check ins with people on the Prozinc ISG that I haven't heard from in a while. Did you see the new dosing protocol document? Look in the sticky's at the top of the forum if you haven't seen it yet.

Everything going fine here.

p.s. If you've read a reply, if you click on the "Like" in the lower right of the post, it at least let's us know you have seen the post. It's why I'm mentioning the revised Prozinc Protocol again. Not sure if you saw it.
 
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