2/3 Disco AMPS 127, +0.5 145, +1.5 207, +5.75 182, +11.25 62–what do I do now??***

What does this mean?
"We have to be a lot more careful with the cats who eat only dry food, because they don’t have access to the tools the rest of us use to keep our cats safe"
I think it means cats are on dry food (higher carb) already don’t have any higher carb options to help them through. For those of us that are on a low-carb food, we have high carb options to help us, like fancy feast gravy lovers or even kibble.

On a sidenote, I just woke up at 3:30 AM to pee and tested Disco and his number was 571…a bounce to the moon! But also, i skipped a dose but that’s his highest number ever!
 
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I think it means cats are on dry food (higher carb) already don’t have any higher carb options to help them through. For those of us that are on a low-carb food, we have high carb options to help us, like fancy feast gravy lovers or even kibble.

On a sidenote, I just woke up at 3:30 AM to P and tested Disco and his number was 571…a bounce to the moon!

possibly, but i am feeding Bandit YA zero carb kibble.

and wow! Disco is bouncier than Bandit. 571!!!
anyway, the first low pre-shot number for newbies is invariably a skipped shot. and it's probably safer that way. we learn as we go along!
 
possibly, but i am feeding Bandit YA zero carb kibble.

and wow! Disco is bouncier than Bandit. 571!!!
anyway, the first low pre-shot number for newbies is invariably a skipped shot. and it's probably safer that way. we learn as we go along!
I fed Disco YA zero carb years ago when I was trying to get him to lose weight (he was up to 16 pounds) but it didn’t work for him for weight loss and I haven’t tried it since as he’s on primarily raw since his ABD diagnosis in 2012
 
Oh my goodness yes, that there is a bounce for sure!

Sorry I wasn't able to advise you to shoot on those numbers last night-- just couldn't do it in good conscience without also being able to stay up with you or knowing for sure that someone else would be able to do so. As Wendy says, at least now we have a little data that will give us a hint of his plans the next time he does this! Eventually, you'll be shooting numbers like that without batting an eye, but it takes a little time to work up to that.
 
in situations like this, would a token dose (say 1 unit or less) be preferable to a skipped shot? asking for myself in advance!

That's a good question. There are a few factors involved. The most important is ketones-- if at all possible, a cat who has recently had an episode of ketones should get some insulin, every shot time. Other than that, I think there are some different approaches. Any change to the shot amount, whether reduced or skipped, will disrupt the depot, and I think there is some thought that a reduction should be less disruptive than a skip. In most situations where this question arises, in newly-diagnosed cats that probably aren't well-regulated yet, I tend to feel that that concern is swamped out by others if the only worry is having some difficulty interpreting spreadsheet patterns for a couple days. However, in cats on higher doses, it may be more of a concern because they really need that big depot at their back at all times. Another situation in which the token dose might be used is in a cat who tends to have huge, extended bounces, in hopes that that first zoom up might be tempered a little bit. In Disco's case, he zoomed up so high mostly because he was bouncing, not the skipped shot, but having a little insulin on board at +2 or +3 might have helped slow him down some. I didn't recommend this route for the same reasons I didn't recommend shooting the full dose-- we didn't have enough information about the direction he was headed, and there would be no one around to help Teri in the opposite situation from what actually happened, if he were moving down and the insulin added to his momentum :nailbiting:.

So, it depends! As a personal inclination, I usually lean towards the "call it a fur shot" approach and skipping altogether, but that's really more of a personal quirk.

It is always important, though, whether reducing or skipping, to do as Teri did last night and keep testing for a while. With a depot insulin, you cannot assume that skip=safe in low numbers. That depot always gets a say!

There are also a couple of things you can do to try to keep yourself out of the most difficult form of this problem, where we just have no idea which direction the cat is headed. One is the "stall don't feed" after getting a low pre-shot: just like it sounds, you stall and hold off on shooting for a half hour, you don't feed to keep the number free of food influence, and then see if the next test is moving up or down. The other thing you can do is on the other end of the pre-shot, trying to get late-cycle (+10 or +11) tests so that when you do the pre-shot, you know where the cat is coming from.

No matter what, though, these cats are always going to make us do some guessing games!
 
Oh my goodness yes, that there is a bounce for sure!

Sorry I wasn't able to advise you to shoot on those numbers last night-- just couldn't do it in good conscience without also being able to stay up with you or knowing for sure that someone else would be able to do so. As Wendy says, at least now we have a little data that will give us a hint of his plans the next time he does this! Eventually, you'll be shooting numbers like that without batting an eye, but it takes a little time to work up to that.

No apologies needed...and your help before you had to hit the hay is much appreciated!
 
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That's a good question. There are a few factors involved. The most important is ketones-- if at all possible, a cat who has recently had an episode of ketones should get some insulin, every shot time. Other than that, I think there are some different approaches. Any change to the shot amount, whether reduced or skipped, will disrupt the depot, and I think there is some thought that a reduction should be less disruptive than a skip. In most situations where this question arises, in newly-diagnosed cats that probably aren't well-regulated yet, I tend to feel that that concern is swamped out by others if the only worry is having some difficulty interpreting spreadsheet patterns for a couple days. However, in cats on higher doses, it may be more of a concern because they really need that big depot at their back at all times. Another situation in which the token dose might be used is in a cat who tends to have huge, extended bounces, in hopes that that first zoom up might be tempered a little bit. In Disco's case, he zoomed up so high mostly because he was bouncing, not the skipped shot, but having a little insulin on board at +2 or +3 might have helped slow him down some. I didn't recommend this route for the same reasons I didn't recommend shooting the full dose-- we didn't have enough information about the direction he was headed, and there would be no one around to help Teri in the opposite situation from what actually happened, if he were moving down and the insulin added to his momentum :nailbiting:.

So, it depends! As a personal inclination, I usually lean towards the "call it a fur shot" approach and skipping altogether, but that's really more of a personal quirk.

It is always important, though, whether reducing or skipping, to do as Teri did last night and keep testing for a while. With a depot insulin, you cannot assume that skip=safe in low numbers. That depot always gets a say!

There are also a couple of things you can do to try to keep yourself out of the most difficult form of this problem, where we just have no idea which direction the cat is headed. One is the "stall don't feed" after getting a low pre-shot: just like it sounds, you stall and hold off on shooting for a half hour, you don't feed to keep the number free of food influence, and then see if the next test is moving up or down. The other thing you can do is on the other end of the pre-shot, trying to get late-cycle (+10 or +11) tests so that when you do the pre-shot, you know where the cat is coming from.

No matter what, though, these cats are always going to make us do some guessing games!

Wow, what a wealth of information! As wiped out as I feel this morning, kind of like a limp noodle even though I got a 82% sleep night according to my Phone app, I did get a +7 overnight (571, his highest reading ever) but when this happens again, I will know to get a +10 or 11.

Also, should I have given him his usual 2.75u dose last night when he tested over 200, which was at 10:39pm. Or is 3 hours late too late and better to skip?

So this morning, do I test him at 8:00am, moving him up from the 8:30am late dose yesterday?
 
I think you can test and shoot at your usual time today, after a skip. And no, we wouldn't recommend shooting 3hrs late, generally. The goal when moving shot times is to keep it to 15mins per cycle, or 30mins per day. Shooting 3hrs late means that you can't shoot at your usual time [edit: at the next cycle] because it would only be 9hrs after the last shot--- too much overlap in insulin action. So, even though it's just one shot, you'd then have to be off-schedule for several days while you slowly moved the shot time back to your usual.
 
YA is pretty high in calories. not sure it would work for weight loss?
Yeah, it was almost hilarious actually. It was when the food company was first starting and I was one of their participatnts in a weight-loss trial. At first they had me feeding some huge amount and I knew that wasn’t gonna work but I was going to follow their protocol and then when it didn’t work they had me cut it back and it still didn’t work and I can wondered if he would actually was getting enough nutrition because he wasn’t eating very much. It didn’t last for long but I think on my blog I have a multiple posts about the trial and his progress
 
Yeah, it was almost hilarious actually. It was when the food company was first starting and I was one of their participatnts in a weight-loss trial. At first they had me feeding some huge amount and I knew that wasn’t gonna work but I was going to follow their protocol and then when it didn’t work they had me cut it back and it still didn’t work and I can wondered if he would actually was getting enough nutrition because he wasn’t eating very much. It didn’t last for long but I think on my blog I have a multiple posts about the trial and his progress

Now they say on their website that their food is pretty calorie dense and a cat would need to eat less of it than other kibble! :banghead:
 
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