Spreadsheet magic

JOJI and Kit

JOJI and Kit

Member Since 2019
So, I filled in all data we have for Kit's BG since the day she was diagnosed. We are still getting up to speed on at-home testing. BUT, plugging in all of this data revealed to us something that I totally missed because our heads have been spinning with all of the learning and worrying that's been going on.

Anyway, when Kit was first diagnosed I immediately when to catinfo.org and learned that the prescription diet (for bladder crystal issues) Kit had been on for the last year-plus was high carb and that before starting insulin I could switch her to a high protein/low carb food to see if that shifted things. So I did. For the next 4 or 5 days I fed her Tiki.

When we had her next BG done at the vet we felt comfortable with, it had dropped by 100! But because we were in such a dizzy state of newness and stress, we did not connect the dots! The vet put her directly on Glycobalance and we began with the ProZinc.

I'm now more convinced than ever that we need to change her diet. I AM worried about the urinary issues, since the Glycobalance is supposed to address that issue.

Anyway, I just wanted to thank all of you for being here and putting together this amazing resource.
 
Ask your vet about a food that would be good for both the struvite crystals and the diabetes.

Often, the wet/canned food diets can help immensely with both, as there is more water in the canned foods to flush out the urinary tract. Cats are not big water drinkers, so canned food can really help with urinary tract issues.

Ask your vet specifically what it was in the old 'struvite diet' food that was important for that medical condition.

Ask your vet specifically what minerals in the Glycobalance make it appropriate for a cat with struvite crystals.

A certain percentage of """unknown name of mineral"" to have below a certain point to stave off the sturvite formation.

You could always make your own raw food.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Ask your vet about a food that would be good for both the struvite crystals and the diabetes.

Often, the wet/canned food diets can help immensely with both, as there is more water in the canned foods to flush out the urinary tract. Cats are not big water drinkers, so canned food can really help with urinary tract issues.

Ask your vet specifically what it was in the old 'struvite diet' food that was important for that medical condition.

Ask your vet specifically what minerals in the Glycobalance make it appropriate for a cat with struvite crystals.

A certain percentage of """unknown name of mineral"" to have below a certain point to stave off the sturvite formation.

You could always make your own raw food.
Click to expand...
Hi Deb & Wink, Thanks...Good questions for our vet. I doubt we'll be going the raw food route any time soon. We're already spending whole days sorting all of this out, monitoring (and lots of worrying) and getting up to speed. At some point I'll need to get back to work (need to make some money for insulin!) ; )
 
JOJI and Kit said:
Hi Deb & Wink, Thanks...Good questions for our vet. I doubt we'll be going the raw food route any time soon. We're already spending whole days sorting all of this out, monitoring (and lots of worrying) and getting up to speed. At some point I'll need to get back to work (need to make some money for insulin!) ; )
Click to expand...
Work?!?! That thing you have to do to make money, so you can buy health insurance, buy food, pay your rent and utilities, buy food and litter for the cat. Buy yet MORE toys for the cat. Go out with friends and have some fun? That thing?!?!

You probably know much more about the struvite crystals than I ever will. "Preaching to the choir."
"The cause of struvite crystals in cats is most often the result of eating dry cat food. Due to the lack of moisture in the diet, the urine becomes too concentrated and highly alkaline. A balanced raw meat diet should help to resolve the problem and help eliminate the occurrence of struvite crystals in the urine."

https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/feline-struvite-calcium-oxalate-urolithiasis/

There is premade raw food you can buy. I know of a couple of specialty pet food stores in my area that carry raw food. But a lot of the raw foods have fruits and veggies added, so watch the carb content.

Just brainstorming here.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Work?!?! That thing you have to do to make money, so you can buy health insurance, buy food, pay your rent and utilities, buy food and litter for the cat. Buy yet MORE toys for the cat. Go out with friends and have some fun? That thing?!?!

You probably know much more about the struvite crystals than I ever will. "Preaching to the choir."
"The cause of struvite crystals in cats is most often the result of eating dry cat food. Due to the lack of moisture in the diet, the urine becomes too concentrated and highly alkaline. A balanced raw meat diet should help to resolve the problem and help eliminate the occurrence of struvite crystals in the urine."

https://todaysveterinarypractice.com/feline-struvite-calcium-oxalate-urolithiasis/

There is premade raw food you can buy. I know of a couple of specialty pet food stores in my area that carry raw food. But a lot of the raw foods have fruits and veggies added, so watch the carb content.

Just brainstorming here.
Click to expand...
Yes, need to work and have a life! ; ) Kit has been on wet food with added water since she has been with us for the last 2.5 years. She does have dry treats, but we've phased those out and planning on getting freeze dried replacements. She's never been a big water drinker, until the diabetes that is. Thanks for your thoughts! As of this morning we are trying to figure out why her numbers were so weird last night. Talking with vet soon.
 
JOJI and Kit said:
Yes, need to work and have a life! ; ) She does have dry treats, but we've phased those out and planning on getting freeze dried replacements.
Click to expand...
I hear you. We do too, have a life that is.

Lots of people in the USA like the Pure-bites chicken flavor freeze dried, buy the dog size bag because they are more economical. Can cause constipation if you give too many. Little pieces of plain cooked chicken are another option.

As of this morning we are trying to figure out why her numbers were so weird last night. Talking with vet soon.
Click to expand...
Because you don't test before every shot, what we call the pre-shot or PS test. If you are not doing that every day, both AM and PM, you have no idea how low Kit's BG is before you give the insulin. She was probably really low, dropped like a rock, her self preservation system kicked in and dumped glucogan and other hormones into her system to compensate for an actual or perceived low BG. Then she didn't recover enough for you to give any insulin for the 1/26/20 PM shot so you skipped. Now she is bouncing and will bounce for 3-6 cycles. It's why the BG readings were so high this morning. No insulin + bouncing.

Please check for ketones if you are not already. Pharmacy or drugstore should have ketostix. No insulin and higher BG readings could indicate Kit is burning off some fat. Burning off too much of that fat can produce ketones as a byproduct. Not enough insulin + not enough food + infection/inflammation or other stresses on a cat's system is the classic setup for DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). Life threatening. Long expensive vet hospital stay. "Better safe than sorry." Note the results on the SS in the Remarks column.

Your dose may be too high, as you have raised by 0.5U increments. We recommend raising by 0.25U increments. You have to eyeball that and it's easier to do if you have the U40 syringes with half unit markings on the barrel. ADW diabetes carry them. Can be found elsewhere too I'm sure.

You haven't been here long, so probably don't know about the "stalling" technique. That is where you have a low PS (pre-shot) test, too low to shoot. Don't feed, retest in 20 minutes. If rising and above your shoot/no shoot limit (we recommend 200 when starting out with Prozinc), then give the insulin. If still too low, stall again without feeding and retest in 20 minutes.

Flexibility with adjusting shot times with Prozinc is an advantage in that you can stall for up to 1 hour and stay on schedule for the next 12 hour dosing cycle. No "depot" , little storage area that Lantus and Levimir have. Duration with Prozinc is more limited, 10-12 hours. Carry over to the next cycle can happen but is not common with Prozinc. ECID. Every Cat Is Different. You need to learn when the nadir occurs (how low a particular dose takes Kit), when the insulin starts to 'poop out' (aka the duration).

You can also give a "token dose" 10-15% of her regular dose. IF you are around to monitor. Wouldn't recommend it with that BG of 120 last night.

Prozinc dosing changes are best based on the difference between the PS and the nadir or peak action (mid-cycle usually in the +4 to +7 hour timeframe). PS is the test you do before insulin.

That first test BG in the cycle goes in the AMPS or PMPS column depending on time of day. Then tests after that are recorded in the appropriate columns. 1 hour after PS test is +1, 2 hours after PS test is +2,.......

Mentioning this as several newer members were putting their test BG results in the wrong columns on the SS. And had to go back and fix it.

Lots of cats drop lower at night, so a before bed test is good to get. In the +4 to +7 timeframe in the PM.

You are looking for a about a 50% drop between the PS and the Nadir. Second half of the cycle doesn't matter as much but you do need to do a few tests towards the end of the cycle, +10, +11 to get an idea of the duration for your cat. ECID.

Not feeding after about +6 is good, because after that time, the insulin is mostly used up and the BG readings will simply go up that much faster if you feed after +6. Timed feeder if you don't already have one.

Not sure how much you have been reading here. So you may know some of this 'stuff' already.
 
Deb & Wink said:
I hear you. We do too, have a life that is.

Lots of people in the USA like the Pure-bites chicken flavor freeze dried, buy the dog size bag because they are more economical. Can cause constipation if you give too many. Little pieces of plain cooked chicken are another option.

Because you don't test before every shot, what we call the pre-shot or PS test. If you are not doing that every day, both AM and PM, you have no idea how low Kit's BG is before you give the insulin. She was probably really low, dropped like a rock, her self preservation system kicked in and dumped glucogan and other hormones into her system to compensate for an actual or perceived low BG. Then she didn't recover enough for you to give any insulin for the 1/26/20 PM shot so you skipped. Now she is bouncing and will bounce for 3-6 cycles. It's why the BG readings were so high this morning. No insulin + bouncing.

Please check for ketones if you are not already. Pharmacy or drugstore should have ketostix. No insulin and higher BG readings could indicate Kit is burning off some fat. Burning off too much of that fat can produce ketones as a byproduct. Not enough insulin + not enough food + infection/inflammation or other stresses on a cat's system is the classic setup for DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis). Life threatening. Long expensive vet hospital stay. "Better safe than sorry." Note the results on the SS in the Remarks column.

Your dose may be too high, as you have raised by 0.5U increments. We recommend raising by 0.25U increments. You have to eyeball that and it's easier to do if you have the U40 syringes with half unit markings on the barrel. ADW diabetes carry them. Can be found elsewhere too I'm sure.

You haven't been here long, so probably don't know about the "stalling" technique. That is where you have a low PS (pre-shot) test, too low to shoot. Don't feed, retest in 20 minutes. If rising and above your shoot/no shoot limit (we recommend 200 when starting out with Prozinc), then give the insulin. If still too low, stall again without feeding and retest in 20 minutes.

Flexibility with adjusting shot times with Prozinc is an advantage in that you can stall for up to 1 hour and stay on schedule for the next 12 hour dosing cycle. No "depot" , little storage area that Lantus and Levimir have. Duration with Prozinc is more limited, 10-12 hours. Carry over to the next cycle can happen but is not common with Prozinc. ECID. Every Cat Is Different. You need to learn when the nadir occurs (how low a particular dose takes Kit), when the insulin starts to 'poop out' (aka the duration).

You can also give a "token dose" 10-15% of her regular dose. IF you are around to monitor. Wouldn't recommend it with that BG of 120 last night.

Prozinc dosing changes are best based on the difference between the PS and the nadir or peak action (mid-cycle usually in the +4 to +7 hour timeframe). PS is the test you do before insulin.

That first test BG in the cycle goes in the AMPS or PMPS column depending on time of day. Then tests after that are recorded in the appropriate columns. 1 hour after PS test is +1, 2 hours after PS test is +2,.......

Mentioning this as several newer members were putting their test BG results in the wrong columns on the SS. And had to go back and fix it.

Lots of cats drop lower at night, so a before bed test is good to get. In the +4 to +7 timeframe in the PM.

You are looking for a about a 50% drop between the PS and the Nadir. Second half of the cycle doesn't matter as much but you do need to do a few tests towards the end of the cycle, +10, +11 to get an idea of the duration for your cat. ECID.

Not feeding after about +6 is good, because after that time, the insulin is mostly used up and the BG readings will simply go up that much faster if you feed after +6. Timed feeder if you don't already have one.

Not sure how much you have been reading here. So you may know some of this 'stuff' already.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the Purebites recommendation. In my Chewy cart now! Yes, we do give cooked chicken as treats but would love for her to have some crunch in her life, ya know?
As for pre-shot BG, yes we are onboard now that we have finally learned at home testing. We did learn about stalling and did do PMPS re-test last night but number still too low.
We've shared our SS with vet, just waiting to hear back for consult.
 
JOJI and Kit said:
I told my vet I wanted to switch Kit to FF from Glycobalance canned because of the high carb. They seemed less than thrilled and instead suggested Purina DM canned, so I'm trying that for now to keep the peace. Unsure how quickly I should integrate, but mixing small part DM into Glyco to begin.
Click to expand...

The regular DM or the Savory Selects?

Savory Selects. I looked at food chart to decide. That, and the texture is more preferred by Kit than the regular DM. Do you have any thoughts on this?
Click to expand...
DM Savory Selects canned are 10% carb. Glycobalance was 14% carb.

Be sure to test a bit more often during the food change, because the change to lower carb may drop Kit's BG levels. Food change has been known to drop cats BG's, rapidly in some cases.

You really need to try and get a 'before bed' test every PM cycle. (12 hours for each cycle)

p.s. Did you know you can change your thread title? Go to the upper right of the screen, click on I think it is manage thread? Drop down box for editing tools to the left of that, change the title, maybe even change the prefix to the ? and save the changes.

More tips here HOW-TO USE THE FDMB: The Basics
 
Deb & Wink said:
The regular DM or the Savory Selects?


DM Savory Selects canned are 10% carb. Glycobalance was 14% carb.

Be sure to test a bit more often during the food change, because the change to lower carb may drop Kit's BG levels. Food change has been known to drop cats BG's, rapidly in some cases.

You really need to try and get a 'before bed' test every PM cycle. (12 hours for each cycle)

p.s. Did you know you can change your thread title? Go to the upper right of the screen, click on I think it is manage thread? Drop down box for editing tools to the left of that, change the title, maybe even change the prefix to the ? and save the changes.

More tips here HOW-TO USE THE FDMB: The Basics
Click to expand...
Thanks Deb. Yes, l used the catinfo.org chart in my selection, and yes I am integrating food slowly. I'll try to get a before bed check. This is turning into a full time job. ; ) As for changing thread title, I'll try to do that but I think I'll just stop posting at all for awhile because I really don't have the hang of where and when I should comment or post.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Post right here in this forum in this thread.

Or ok to stop posting if you prefer.
Click to expand...
I guess my question is this. When I've commented on another person's thread when it is pertinent to what they are talking about, is that not okay? I've done that a few times and have been told I should keep all of my comments in my own thread.
 
That is ok, to comment on someone else's threads. Thought you were looking to see if the DM wet food would be better. I responded back to you, then thought it might be better for you to see the reply in your own thread. Thought seeing those types of recommendations and seeing them in your own thread would be more helpful to you.

If you post your own thread in the Main Welcome and Health forum, there are more people that look in that forum than the ISG's for Prozinc or Caninsulin and you may get more responses.

Plus, since Juls and Billy are doing an OTJ trial, we might not look at her post as often to see what is going on. If Juls isn't posting, the thread can easily fall to the bottom of the queue and it might get missed with a quick scan of that particular forum.

Plus with her Billy being OTJ for I think 18 days now, she might not post as often. What if your cat had a low BG reading and you wanted help in addressing it? Post in the Main and Welcome forum, reply to the thread if you are not getting an answer with the word "bump". That brings the thread to the top of the forum to get "more eyes" on you. Tag someone you know to come help. Lots of things you can do to call for attention. Put the question mark prefix on your own thread. Change the title of the post. Add the word HELP in capital letters to the thread title.( You as the thread originator is the only one that can do that.)

If you are posting in @Juls and Billy thread, you can't do any of those title changes, or change the prefix on the thread. Only Juls and Billy can do that. She "owns" that thread.

Questions about your own cat Kit, might be better in your own thread. Otherwise it can get confusing and it makes it harder to follow what you are doing with your own cat.

If you have your own thread, we can give individualized attention, recommendations, point things out we may see on your cats SS, etc. Makes it a bit easier to follow along with what is happening with YOUR cat.

I realize that the facebook group can be much more 'free form' but goodness sakes, how some of those comments go totally off topic from what the original poster has asked can get really bewildering. Not sure if someone is replying to something the original poster asked, or is taking the conversation 'sideways' and replying to something totally irrelevant to the original poster.

My 2 cents worth.
 
Agree with Deb. It's absolutely all right for you to take part in conversations in other threads. However, when you need information about what food your cat should eat, it's going to get a lot more eyes on it if it's in your thread than if it's in "Billy's OTJ trial." I post in many threads, and I talk about Billy in many threads, in a way that's pertinent to that specific thread. Or at least I try to keep it pertinent. :)
 
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Thanks Deb and Juls. It is so very comforting to know you're all here while we sort this out. I can't imagine the bag over the head mess we'd be in if we hadn't found you and all of these resources that you've all put together here. I truly thought I was being pertinent in comments on threads that were not mine. It certainly helped me feel not so alone with this disease when I could say "yeah, me too"! You can't imagine (well yes you probably can...) how much I have read and read and read here.... the education, the tools, the stickies and the threads, looking at a zillion SS's of other kitties to try to glean some insight that might help us with Kit. Anyway, thank you for replying as this newbie sorts out the culture of this site! :cat:
 
I see from your notes in the SS, that you have you started feeding the new DM Savory Selects to Kit
Does she like them?

You are not alone. We are here for you.:bighug::bighug::bighug:
Anything we may help you with?
No question is too silly. We'd rather you ask than not ask.

Would you like some feedback on the SS and what I can see going on with Kit?
Big bird watching morning for Kit, you or both?
 
Hi Deb, I love watching birds, but this morning it is all Kit's job! We have lots of feeders and windows that keep her entertained. She's now totally an indoor cat except for when she's 100% monitored on the porch or for walks while carrying her. Outdoor cats have helped to decimate wild bird populations and I don't want to add to that problem. Kit showed up at the public garden where I work as a starving little kitten. We have no idea where she came from! The garden adopted her for her first 2-ish years but I brought her to our home when our Shash cat_wings>o.

So far Kit loves the DM SSelects. She's never been a picky eater. She'll pretty much eat whatever she's fed. I also have a case of FF chicken feast roasted that I want to work into the mix eventually.

And yes, I'd love feedback on Kit's SS! Thanks! (P.S. Based on your suggestion, we are now going to get a BG# right before bed, so I am grateful for your input)
 
13119780_10153942191855617_6727964009458505295_o.jpg


When Kit lived at the public garden. Just to give you a feel for her personality!
 

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Non-picky eaters are a treasure!

SS feedback and general comments. I'm not an "expert" with Prozinc, but I can notice some general trends and make comments that may help. You may already be doing some or a lot of this.
  • Many people don't test much at night. If you don't you are missing half your data. Most cats are more active at night and their BG levels drop then.
  • If possible, get a nadir test at night. Nadir is usually around +4 to +7. I'm absolutely NOT saying to test every night. But set an alarm if needed to get one occasionally. And vary the time you do that test. +4 one day, +6 another. Helps to "flesh out" the SS data.
  • If possible, take the food up 2 hours before both pre-shots. That is so you know the pre-shot tests do not have any food influence and you get a better idea if the pre-shot is "shootable".
  • Shoot/no shoot limit when you are new should be at least 200 -220 since you are using the Alphatrak like your signature says. But you shot at 199 and Kit was fine so lets make that your "stop and think" preshot number. Post here and ask for help. Might not be anyone here on this forum, but you can also post in Main Health for answers.
  • Try to do a curve once a week, when you are off from work. Curve is pre-shot to pre-shot testing every 2 hours. Or pre-shot and then testing every 3 hours for 18 hours.
  • Kit is bouncing. Do you know what bouncing is?
No idea what your work, life, responsibilities are so "push back" at us if we ask for too much. Everyone has to do laundry, cook, shop for food, run errands, have a social life, work full or part time, volunteer, etc................ It's a full life for you and us.

Is Kit your first diabetic cat?

Read some of the other threads here in the Prozinc forum. Open spreadsheets as you do that and try to follow the logic behind the responses. Don't start with Goose first. His is a complicated situation and confusing to a beginner.

p.s. Watch birds here too and have lots of feeders. My civie Dancer tries to stalk the birds from inside and sometimes forgets there is glass between her and the birds. Tries to go through the slider window when the MODO's (Mourning Doves) flock on the deck to feed. And the Squirrels! Runs from window to window to watch the squirrel antics. Cats are much safer inside, away from coyotes, fights with other feral cats, safer from parasites, no cars and traffic to fear them being hit by a car. Have a screened in porch for nicer weather. Too cold now, my little girl loves the heat. Carolina Wren snuck in somehow last week to porch, had to open door and get him/her safely out.

MODO is the short 4 letter alpha code that bird banders use. I've banded birds since 2004, during spring and fall migration. Used to do some winter bird banding demonstrations at a local nature center. Too cold for my hands these days.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Non-picky eaters are a treasure!

SS feedback and general comments. I'm not an "expert" with Prozinc, but I can notice some general trends and make comments that may help. You may already be doing some or a lot of this.
  • Many people don't test much at night. If you don't you are missing half your data. Most cats are more active at night and their BG levels drop then.
  • If possible, get a nadir test at night. Nadir is usually around +4 to +7. I'm absolutely NOT saying to test every night. But set an alarm if needed to get one occasionally. And vary the time you do that test. +4 one day, +6 another. Helps to "flesh out" the SS data.
  • If possible, take the food up 2 hours before both pre-shots. That is so you know the pre-shot tests do not have any food influence and you get a better idea if the pre-shot is "shootable".
  • Shoot/no shoot limit when you are new should be at least 200 -220 since you are using the Alphatrak like your signature says. But you shot at 199 and Kit was fine so lets make that your "stop and think" preshot number. Post here and ask for help. Might not be anyone here on this forum, but you can also post in Main Health for answers.
  • Try to do a curve once a week, when you are off from work. Curve is pre-shot to pre-shot testing every 2 hours. Or pre-shot and then testing every 3 hours for 18 hours.
  • Kit is bouncing. Do you know what bouncing is?
No idea what your work, life, responsibilities are so "push back" at us if we ask for too much. Everyone has to do laundry, cook, shop for food, run errands, have a social life, work full or part time, volunteer, etc................ It's a full life for you and us.

Is Kit your first diabetic cat?

Read some of the other threads here in the Prozinc forum. Open spreadsheets as you do that and try to follow the logic behind the responses. Don't start with Goose first. His is a complicated situation and confusing to a beginner.

p.s. Watch birds here too and have lots of feeders. My civie Dancer tries to stalk the birds from inside and sometimes forgets there is glass between her and the birds. Tries to go through the slider window when the MODO's (Mourning Doves) flock on the deck to feed. And the Squirrels! Runs from window to window to watch the squirrel antics. Cats are much safer inside, away from coyotes, fights with other feral cats, safer from parasites, no cars and traffic to fear them being hit by a car. Have a screened in porch for nicer weather. Too cold now, my little girl loves the heat. Carolina Wren snuck in somehow last week to porch, had to open door and get him/her safely out.

MODO is the short 4 letter alpha code that bird banders use. I've banded birds since 2004, during spring and fall migration. Used to do some winter bird banding demonstrations at a local nature center. Too cold for my hands these days.
Click to expand...

Oh yes, our first diabetic cat. As for "nadir test at night", we'll try to do this. Thx!

"If possible, take the food up 2 hours before both pre-shots" Yes, we have followed this method.

""stop and think" preshot number of 199" Yes. If you see in our note section we've worked this out with our vet. Not sure if their recommendations are perfected or not. I'll try to ask for help here next time.

"curve once a week" yes, we are trying for this. We did most of the curve yesterday in 3 hour segments. doing again today. very flat in the 300's. since we are slowly changing her food, we believe we should keep her insulin at 1.5 for now.

"Kit is bouncing" Yes. We learned firsthand what this is and we are trying to make sure it doesn't happen again, but open to suggestions based on what you see in her SS

So cool that you did bird banding! I've read a bit about it. Our wild bird feather friends need all the help we can give them!!
 
Yes, always discuss with your vet and keep her in the loop as to what you are doing. Think of us as an "adjunct resource". We are simply lay people that have had one or more diabetic cats in the past.
  1. Skipped shot on 1/30/20 PMPS is contributing to the "wacky" BG readings.
  2. Kit is definitely bouncing from that perceived low on 1/29/20.
  3. You needed to skip with that low BG reading at PMPS 1/30/20
  4. You could have also stalled. That is a technique where you do not feed, retest in 20 minutes, looking for a rising number.
  5. With Prozinc, you can stall for up to 60 minutes with that "no food, retest in 20 minutes" attempt.
  6. After 1 hour, you could give a smaller "token" dose to keep Kit on track.
  7. With Prozinc, a 1 hour delay means you can keep on schedule for your next 12 hour cycle. No adjusting times needed as there would be with the "depot" type insulins.
  8. Kit is getting some nadirs that are >50% drops and some that are <50% drops. Difficult to know what the right dose is now. Especially since you are doing the food change.
  9. If you see numbers below 50 (<50 mg/dL) then scream for help. Here and on the Welcome and Main forum. Put the 911 prefix on your post and we'll come running like the fire department. Only for emergencies. I don't mind being tagged either. Might be sleeping, but if I'm around and not dealing with 2 other emergencies, I'll try to help.
  10. Please have your hypo kit ready and standing by. Plus a copy of the hypo instructions in case no one is around to help, your phone dies, the power is taken out, the message board and/or facebook site go down also. Be prepared. Things can happen unexpectedly.
Would you do something on the SS when you get a chance? Add a row between the 1/30/20 date and the 2/1/20 date to indicate you are changing to low carb food. So it jumps right out at us in large font size. Somewhere in the middle of the cells for the AM side of the sheet. You might need to merge some cells so it stands out more.

Any additional notes on the SS in the remarks column are very useful. Especially when looking back and trying to see the trends in the BG readings. For instance, you are changing the food gradually right now and we may see some drops in the BG's. Take it slow and easy.

p.s. See now why having me reply specifically to you in your own post is helpful?
Don't stop commenting on other peoples posts. That moral support is so useful and reassuring to other people.
 
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Deb & Wink said:
Yes, always discuss with your vet and keep her in the loop as to what you are doing. Think of us as an "adjunct resource". We are simply lay people that have had one or more diabetic cats in the past.
  1. Skipped shot on 1/30/20 PMPS is contributing to the "wacky" BG readings.
  2. Kit is definitely bouncing from that perceived low on 1/29/20.
  3. You needed to skip with that low BG reading at PMPS 1/30/20
  4. You could have also stalled. That is a technique where you do not feed, retest in 20 minutes, looking for a rising number.
  5. With Prozinc, you can stall for up to 60 minutes with that "no food, retest in 20 minutes" attempt.
  6. After 1 hour, you could give a smaller "token" dose to keep Kit on track.
  7. With Prozinc, a 1 hour delay means you can keep on schedule for your next 12 hour cycle. No adjusting times needed as there would be with the "depot" type insulins.
  8. Kit is getting some nadirs that are >50% drops and some that are <50% drops. Difficult to know what the right dose is now. Especially since you are doing the food change.
  9. If you see numbers below 50 (<50 mg/dL) then scream for help. Here and on the Welcome and Main forum. Put the 911 prefix on your post and we'll come running like the fire department. Only for emergencies. I don't mind being tagged either. Might be sleeping, but if I'm around and not dealing with 2 other emergencies, I'll try to help.
  10. Please have your hypo kit ready and standing by. Plus a copy of the hypo instructions in case no one is around to help, your phone dies, the power is taken out, the message board and/or facebook site go down also. Be prepared. Things can happen unexpectedly.
Would you do something on the SS when you get a chance? Add a row between the 1/30/20 date and the 2/1/20 date to indicate you are changing to low carb food. So it jumps right out at us in large font size. Somewhere in the middle of the cells for the AM side of the sheet. You might need to merge some cells so it stands out more.

Any additional notes on the SS in the remarks column are very useful. Especially when looking back and trying to see the trends in the BG readings. For instance, you are changing the food gradually right now and we may see some drops in the BG's. Take it slow and easy.

Any way you would/could indicate your time zone in your signature? You'll notice I have EST in mine.

p.s. See now why having me reply specifically to you in your own post is helpful?
Don't stop commenting on other peoples posts. That moral support is so useful and reassuring to other people.
Click to expand...

I added a row indicating that we are integrating LC food and I added EST to my sig.

As for the skipped shot on 1/30/2020 PMPS, we did a stall but did it wrong (I remembered wrong and gave her a little food during the stall, now I know that was incorrect) We also only did one 20 min stall and will do more if it happens again. It's good to know that ProZinc has latitude with timing. I have read about the "token" shots at a low pre-shot. What is considered token? Vet suggested .5 but I'm wondering if even that is too high, especially in the PM.

It is so amazing to know that the 911 exists here and that people will come running if they can!

Thanks again Deb!

Thanks again Deb!
 
Token dose is somewhere between 20-50% of normal dose.

Thanks for the SS change and the signature change. It's the little things sometimes that help the most.
 
I think you need to change the year on the December dates that appear first on your SS. Those should be 2019, not 2020. At least, I don't think I've lost 11 months of my memory.:nailbiting:
 
She is so frantically beside herself hungry, it does seem correct. We've already set her food down. ; ( We are so upset. Not sure if we should go up in her dose .25 or if this will set her up for another bounce.
 
Cats are usually frantically hungry when they feel their BG numbers drop low.
Did you test again? or at least check the meter to see that you read the right number?

Are you sure it was a 644? Highly recommend testing again.
 
But she's mostly eaten her dinner. Can still re-test and believe results? Yes, it was 644 just checked meter
 
Did Kit get her insulin already?
Do you have ketone test strips? For testing the urine?

"Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment."
 
No insulin yet. We are deciding whether to stay at 1.5 or increase.
we have ketone strips, checked friday and negative
Insulin in. stayed the course at 1.5
 
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Another ketone check today is in order with that high BG reading.

You might want to get a +1 and a +2 for this evenings PM test cycle.
To see which direction Kit is headed.

With the food change to a lower carb food, an increase in dose right now could be the wrong thing to do.

While really high numbers may be "freaking you out", they are rarely of immediate concern. Low numbers that can cause hypos are more concerning.
That is why we have the saying "Better too high for a day, than too low for a moment."

Cleaned your hands and dried them well before taking out and handling the test strips?
 
FYI

If you go back and edit a previous post, we may not see the change. When we open the post, the software takes us to the last unread post. Just happened to see your Edit Comment. Sheer chance.

Where you said you did give the 1.5U dose.
 
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How is Kit doing today?
Still working on the food change?

She sure dropped from the high numbers last night.
If you are around, getting a BG test at +10 and a +11 can be very useful information. Those tests let us see what is happening at the end of the 12 hour cycle. Helps us to know what the duration of the Prozinc insulin is with Kit.

Some cats can have a BG rise a couple of hundred basis points at the end of the 12 hour cycle. Kit may be one of them.

ECID Every Cat, Caregiver, Cycle is Different.

"Know thy cat" Helps you to see when something "funky is going on" and might lead you to take another BG test, or test for ketones, or see if she has eaten her food for the day, or maybe has vomited or hacked up a hairball somewhere.
p.s. Saw the ketones were negative this AM 2/3/20.
 
Hi Deb,

Kit is very lazy today. Even the birds don't interest her. I did stay home from work to monitor her. It's winter in the garden, luckily. She tested around the same at 10 as AMPS.
I'm happy she came down from last night's super high black. That hit me right in the gut.

Still working on food change, and even adding in a little FF to the mix. So far lower carb addition has certainly not lowered her BG! :joyful:

thanks again for being here for us! It is super comforting!!! :bighug:
 
That's ok. It may mean Kit has an early nadir. Food after +6 sends cats higher too. Because the insulin has been used up processing the food early in the cycle.
 
After last night's super high numbers, having this mid-day high makes me scared that tonight's numbers will be even higher than last night's! :nailbiting: How long should a cat stick with one insulin type before trying another to see if it works better?
 
That is up to you as the caregiver and what your vet is willing to prescribe.
Some cats do better on one insulin than another.
Kit may do better on one of the longer lasting insulins like Lantus or Levimir.
Each insulin is different. Each insulin has it's own dosing protocol and guidelines.

Check out the "stickies" at the top of the forum on the ISG for Lantus and Levimir.
Lantus / Basaglar (glargine) and Levemir (detemir)

To learn more about the different insulins and if you think you would like to try them.

I do not recommend the NPH type insulins. They only last about 6-8 hours in cats, have a much quicker onset, very short duration. Need much more monitoring to keep your cat safe. IMHO.
 
Joanne, the DM savoury selects you are feeding are 10% carbs so that could be contributing to the higher numbers you are seeing now. Can you find a food that is around 4 or 5 % carbs?

If you need help at night/ evening I live in Australia and am always awake at that time as it is our afternoon /evening so you can tag me or PM me. If you PM me I will get the message if I am not online
 
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