? Novice Nervous Caregiver Shifting from Vetsulin to Lantus Tonight

[bambinaki]

Maxi has been on on Vetsulin only since Monday, when he was diagnosed.
He had been on Purina ProPlan kidney food (wet) since October. I am suspicious that it made him diabetic. He had eaten only wet food for as long as I've known him (11 years). He's now eating mostly Weruva chicken fricasee.
Wed., Jan. 29 at 10am, 15 minutes after eating and 10 minutes after a 1/2 unit of Vetsulin, his glucose was 451 using the AlphaTrak meter.
At 11:30am, glucose was 367 on AlphaTrak.
At 1:15pm, it was 358 on AlphaTrak.
At 10pm, it was 315 on AlphaTrak.
At 10:30pm, it was 283 *using the ReliOn meter*.
At 10:30pm, he ate. He ate less than normal and slower than normal. After he ate, he went back to the water bowl a couple times (unusual for him before).
After eating, at 10:45pm, he got 1 unit of Vetsulin.
At 12:30am, his glucose was 380 using the AlphaTrak.
At 12:50am, it was 254 *using the ReliOn meter*.
At 2:40am, it was 255 on AlphaTrak.

Today, Jan. 30 at 6:15am, his glucose was 187 with AlphaTrak.
At 6:20am, he ate a half portion (on purpose by me because of my schedule - he'll get the other half around 10:30 with anther test and insulin if over 200)
At 7:25am, it was 314 with AlphaTrak.
At 10:35am, it was 286 with AlphaTrak.
At 10:40am, he ate.
At 11:00am, he got 1 unit of Vetsulin.
At 6:55pm, his glucose was 367 with AlphaTrak, and then he ate.

Some relevant info is attached.

With these numbers, what do you think his first dose of Lantus should be tonight?

I guess I will switch over to the ReliOn since I understand that you prefer readings from a human meter.

I will attempt a spreadsheet over the weekend.

Thank you!

PS: I will now watch a video about how to get Lantus out of a pen with a syringe. Advice about that also would be appreciated.

 

[Beth 73]

Hi Karen ! Glad you are here ! I am a vetsulin convert as well back a few years ago . To get more eyes on your thread go to the thread title box and add the question mark icon ...that will cause more attention to be drawn to your thread .

 

[bambinaki]

Hi Karen ! Glad you are here ! I am a vetsulin convert as well back a few years ago . To get more eyes on your thread go to the thread title box and add the question mark icon ...that will cause more attention to be drawn to your thread .

Thanks, Beth.

 

[Christie & Maverick]

My understanding is that you do take into consideration your Vetsulin dose when you switch, but I am not comfortable suggesting what your Lantus dose should be. I don't think anyone would be comfortable giving you dose advice without seeing your spreadsheet.

I can say, please make sure you have the U100 syringes. Don't use the U40 syringes that you have been using with Vetsulin, you will need up giving more insulin than you intended.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I will attempt a spreadsheet over the weekend.

Great, the sooner the better. If you need help, let us know. We can tag someone who can help make it happen sooner.

My girl switched from Caninsulin (Vetsulin is just a rebrand) to Lantus. I was so glad I switched.

As for dose, we can practically call him newly diagnosed. How much does Maxi weight? We have two dosing methods here - take a look at the Sticky Note on Dosing Methods. Depending which method you would like to use determines the starting dose, one of the methods uses a weight based formula. You don't really have enough track record on Vetsulin for us to use it as a guide to starting dose on Lantus.

 

[bambinaki]

Hello-

Maxi weighs 13.8 pounds.

Isn't all the info that would be in a spreadsheet already above? He was just diagnosed 4 days ago.
I know nothing about this but my common sense says having had only 7 doses of Vetsulin of 1 unit or less each, he wouldn't be considered a Vetsulin user.
On the Dosing Sticky, it says this in the Go Slow section:
"If the cat was previously on another insulin, the starting dose should be increased or decreased by taking prior data into consideration."

Re. dosing, I'd like to do what's best for the cat, which seems to be Tight Regulation, right?

Can someone please let me know if I should give Maxi 1/2 or 1 unit of Lantus tonight?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

If you were following Tight Regulation (which means feeding an all low carb wet food or raw diet, and getting at least 4 tests per day or two per cycle), then the weight based formula would mean starting at 1.5 units. That is calculated by weight in kg (pounds divided by 2.2 or 6.3 kg) times 0.25 units. You start at 1 if you want to be conservative. If you are following SLGS for dosing and on an all wet food or raw diet, the starting dose is 0.5 units.

7 doses of Vetsulin doesn't give us enough track record to use as prior data into consideration.

Tight Regulation probably has a better track record for remission, but more important, allows you to get a cat into regulation faster. However, with that faster increases is a need for more monitoring. Only you can decide if that suits your life style.

 

[bambinaki]

If you were following Tight Regulation (which means feeding an all low carb wet food or raw diet, and getting at least 4 tests per day or two per cycle), then the weight based formula would mean starting at 1.5 units. That is calculated by weight in kg (pounds divided by 2.2 or 6.3 kg) times 0.25 units. You start at 1 if you want to be conservative. If you are following SLGS for dosing and on an all wet food or raw diet, the starting dose is 0.5 units.

7 doses of Vetsulin doesn't give us enough track record to use as prior data into consideration.

Tight Regulation probably has a better track record for remission, but more important, allows you to get a cat into regulation faster. However, with that faster increases is a need for more monitoring. Only you can decide if that suits your life style.

Thank you, Wendy.

I saw an article here on this site about being able to do tight regulation with a full-time job, but I just read here http://www.tillydiabetes.net/en_6_protocol2.htm that tight regulation requires feeding throughout the day or free feeding, neither of which I can do (can't feed throughout the day because I work, can't free feed because of 2 other cats, can't isolate diabetic kitty because the 3 of them would go crazy). Tilly's is the tight regulation protocol that you recommend, right?

So, it looks like I have to do the Start Low, Go Slow protocol, right?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Read the version of Tight Regulation that is listed in our dosing methods Sticky Note. That is what we follow here. It is largely what is written on the other website (where the protocol was first developed), with some minor modifications.

Do your cats free feed or graze? If a grazer, leave food out for all, or maybe buy three feeders. My Neko was very food aggressive. The only time my other cat got into the feeder was when she wasn't home. More expensive option, you can buy feeders with a chip reading system so only the cat with the collar and chip get into it. They are also low tech version based on the cats. For example, if the diabetic is skinny, you can create a box to hold the food with a slim door only he fits.

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

Isn't all the info that would be in a spreadsheet already above? He was just diagnosed 4 days ago.

We have a special spreadsheet we all use to record our test results. It's color coded which makes it easier to see the "patterns" we look for.

I'd be more than happy to set it up for you if you like. Just send me a private message by clicking on my name and choosing "start a conversation" so I can get some information I'd need.

 

[bambinaki]

Read the version of Tight Regulation that is listed in our dosing methods Sticky Note. That is what we follow here. It is largely what is written on the other website (where the protocol was first developed), with some minor modifications.

Do your cats free feed or graze? If a grazer, leave food out for all, or maybe buy three feeders. My Neko was very food aggressive. The only time my other cat got into the feeder was when she wasn't home. More expensive option, you can buy feeders with a chip reading system so only the cat with the collar and chip get into it. They are also low tech version based on the cats. For example, if the diabetic is skinny, you can create a box to hold the food with a slim door only he fits.

I got the impression that this page directs us to Tilly's for the complete instructions. So, the instructions for TR and Go Slow here
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-low-go-slow-slgs-tight-regulation-tr.210110/
are complete with all the details I need, then?

My cats eat their meals with gusto all at once. Maxi is eating more slowly and less now. Could it be from the diabetes?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

All the information you need to follow the dosing methods we use here are in the dosing methods sticky notes.

Usually diabetes can make a cat hungrier.