Give Vetsulin until I get Lantus?? (URGENT)

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bambinaki

bambinaki

Member Since 2010
Hello,

My cat was diagnosed with diabetes yesterday. His glucose was 455 mg/dL.

The vet gave him one unit of Vetsulin yesterday morning, and I gave him one until last night (as instructed by the vet).

I've read that Vetsulin is not good and Lantus is, so I just called to request a prescription for Lantus and am waiting to get a call back.

Should I give my kitty Vetsulin until I get Lantus?

He drank a lot the day before yesterday, but not at all today.

PS: I have another question: Last October he was diagnosed with early kidney disease and prescribed Purina ProPlan NF Kidney Function NF Early Care. His glucose was fine at that time (162). Do you think the kidney food gave him diabetes?

I've got the food research done and he's off the kidney food and on low carb food and a phosphate binder.

Any and all insights and advice will be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi bambinaki! Welcome back to the FDMB. Looks like you were a member a long time ago.

First do some mindfulness breathing to help with all the stress you must be feeling with the recent diabetes diagnosis. Deep breath, hold, release, deep breath, hold, release.

You sound really scared. What has you most worried right now?

You had also asked in a PM to me and other people about the dose you are giving. It's perfectly fine to ask about dosing in the public forums, like this one.

This is what you said "What do you think of the one until dose twice a day?" 1 unit in the AM and PM may be ok for now.

Have you read this document yet? New? How You Can Help Us Help You! It has some great information to get you started.
 
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Did the vet use a fructosomine test for the diagnosis or test using a glucose meter? The fructosomine test gives an average reading over several days while the glucose test only gives a reading for the moment.

The diet change to low carb will drop the glucose levels some. Are you planning to home test? That would really tell you how well the diet change is working and if insulin is needed.
 
Correction: "What do you think of the one *unit* dose twice a day?"
Thanks for your reply to that, Deb & Wink. The vet granted my request for a prescription for Lantus. I'll pick up the prescription tonight but don't know how long it will take to get the Lantus. Until then, do you think I should give my diabetic Maxi the Vetsulin?
When I get the Lantus, do you agree with the 1 unit twice a day dosing?
I don't know if the vet did a fructosamine test or used a glucose meter, but I think it was the latter.
I will home test. Tonight I will pick up from the vet a glucose test kit meant for cats. The document you referred me to is based on testing meters meant for humans. Do you think I should get a human test kit and use that instead of the one from the vet?
What has me most worried is figuring out how to treat Maxi's diabetes the most effective and safe way possible, as soon as possible. At the moment I'm especially worried that since he's off the kidney food and back on Weruva chicken fricasee, he might not need insulin at all, and I might overdose him, so I'd like to know if I should wait until I can test before I give him insulin.
I lived with a kitty, Billy, who came down with diabetes 10 years ago, but I have been through so much since then that I forgot everything. I had consulted Dr. Lisa Pierson and found her VERY helpful. She saved me from overdosing Billy on insulin and taught me about diet -- she saved my kitty from bad advice/treatment from his vet. Since then, I have never fed anything but canned food to my companions. Billy almost immediately did not need insulin after I changed his diet and didn't need it for a year, and after that I tested him only every few days, so I think the diet change might drop Maxi's glucose levels more than 'some.'
This is why I'm worried about overdosing Maxi. Dr. P. said the vet's dose was way too much, and now I'm worried that this vet's dose is also too high. So, I gave Maxi 1/2 a until today. I don't know what to do tonight.
Does anybody out there think Maxi's diabetes might be due to the kidney food? (Please see my post above.)

Many thanks!
 
Personally, I would get a human meter as it is much cheaper to run and our dosing methods are based on human meters. The vet may say the alphatrak meter is better for cats but the human meter is fine and that is what all vets used until the last few years.
Well done going to home test. That will keep your kitty safe.

The only way you can tell if the blood glucose level is high enough to need insulin is to test the blood glucose levels. Kidney food is definitely high in carbs so the change over to low carb will drop the BG levels but by how much we don’t know til you test and find out. My suggestion is to go out and get a human meter now and start testing and you will know exactly what the BGLevel is.
At this point I would not give any insulin if the BG level is under 200 on the human mete until you have more data.
Did the vet mention ketones at all at disgnosus?
 
Thank you, Bron and Sheba.
Can you recommend a human test kit brand, please? (at CVS pharmacy or Walmart or Walgreens)
I think the vet said his ketones are ok.
 
The ReliOn meter at Walmart is ok. And the test strips are cheap. You need the strips that go with the particular meter.
Also get lancets gauge 26 or 28 and some cotton balls to hold behind the ear when you test.
Expect to fail a few times as you learn. We all did but it becomes very easy. Always give your kitty a low carb treat every time you test. Even when you fail.
I’ll send a link through about testing.
Well done you for going to test!!!
 
People here have started to buy the Relion Premier line of meters from Wal-mart instead of the Relion Prime meters. Not sure, but I think that may be because Wal-mart simply does not have the Relion Prime in stock.

People have issues, 2 members in the last 2 weeks, with the True Metrix meter. E2 error codes and wasting a lot of strips. Not a big enough blood drop to test was the issue. Found at Walgreens and CVS.
 
I'd test first to make sure your cat's BG (blood glucose levels) are high enough to give insulin.

Be prepared for sticker shock on the lantus if you live in the USA. Try to find a pharmacy that will sell you a single "pen" and don't use the pen needles. Buy syringes to withdraw the lantus from the mini-vial (pen).
Get 3/10 cc(volume), U100 syringes to use with Lantus. Look for syringes with 1/2 unit markings on the barrel. Needle length is your choice, but longer needles can help if your cat has long hair.

Wal-mart sometimes has the U100 syringes with 1/2 unit markings, but their pharmacy personnel don't know that. Tell them to look behind the counter.
You may need a prescription for the syringes, depending on the state you live in.

Vetsulin is a different concentration and needs U40 syringes.
 
"What has me most worried is figuring out how to treat Maxi's diabetes the most effective and safe way possible, as soon as possible. At the moment I'm especially worried that since he's off the kidney food and back on Weruva chicken fricasee, he might not need insulin at all, and I might overdose him, so I'd like to know if I should wait until I can test before I give him insulin."

Then please test first if you are so afraid.

Doesn't matter if the kidney food caused the diabetes. He has multiple medical issues and you move forward from this point and manage both conditions.

When you update your signature, put in there that you cat has CKD and you use a phosphorus binder.

Then, go and relax for a bit, do some mindfulness breathing and de-stress. Be good to yourself so you stay healthy to take care of your kitty Maxi. You never did tell us your first name. Are you willing to share that with us in a public forum?
 
@bambinaki welcome, there is a supply closet here that members sell insulin when their kitties have passed. I see right now there is some one selling the Lantus Pens for 30.00 each plus shipping. One pen can last 6 months depending on the dose you are giving. I myself have bought Lantus pens from the supply closet, If you are interested I can give you her name. I use the Relion Prime and am very pleased with it. It's 9 dollars and 17.88 for 100 strips

When you do the poke itself, try to go in at an angle, so you don't just poke straight through. You are aiming for the edge of the ear, not on a vein. Here's a picture of the "sweet spot" you want to aim for: This is for when you are testing free hand with the lancet

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I always used a lancer device to do the pokes and never had any issues at all. Some people like to do it free hand but I didn’t like doing that. I felt I had more control with the device. Everyone is different... whatever works is best!
 
Deb & Wink said:
"What has me most worried is figuring out how to treat Maxi's diabetes the most effective and safe way possible, as soon as possible. At the moment I'm especially worried that since he's off the kidney food and back on Weruva chicken fricasee, he might not need insulin at all, and I might overdose him, so I'd like to know if I should wait until I can test before I give him insulin."

Then please test first if you are so afraid.

Doesn't matter if the kidney food caused the diabetes. He has multiple medical issues and you move forward from this point and manage both conditions.

It matters to me! It's important for cat fans to know that kidney food can lead to diabetes, if that's in fact the case.

When you update your signature, put in there that you cat has CKD and you use a phosphorus binder.

Then, go and relax for a bit, do some mindfulness breathing and de-stress. Be good to yourself so you stay healthy to take care of your kitty Maxi. You never did tell us your first name. Are you willing to share that with us in a public forum?
Click to expand...

It's Karen.
 
Hi Karen!!

You've had one diabetic cat in the past, and said you forgot a lot of things, but we will give you a 'refresher course' to bring you back up to speed. Keep asking questions. Let us know how things are going on with you and Maxi.

In your signature you could put your first name, your cat's name, cat's age, diagnosis date for the diabetes, insulin used, meter you use for testing (say no meter yet if you don't have one), type of food feeding, CKD w/Phos binder, any other medications your cat is on, any other medical conditions, then the link to your SS (spreadsheet) when you get it set up

So something like this:
Karen&Maxi|male, age xx|DX: 1/21/20|Lantus (Vetsulin for a few days)|meter name| wet food Weruva w/Phos binder|CKD stage ?| other meds| other medical conditions|SS link

Please substitute and make corrections where I was guessing at some of the information. Thanks. It really helps to have those "little tidbits" at our fingertips. The info gets "magically attached" to your posts by software in the background. Signature is changeable at any time.
 
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Karen, Please remove your time zone and country and state from your user "signature". I mistakenly asked for you to include that info and it should not be there. Thanks and apologies for the confusion.
 
Deb & Wink said:
Karen, Please remove your time zone and country and state from your user "signature". I mistakenly asked for you to include that info and it should not be there. Thanks and apologies for the confusion.
Click to expand...

Deb, I had only the state in my signature, and I've removed it.
Thanks
 
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