Do Daa's PZ Dosing Thread3

Discussion in 'Prozinc / PZI' started by Goose, Jan 26, 2020.

  1. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  2. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I mean a total of eight cycles which is a total of four days. Thanks for starting a new thread.

    Great cycle last night and today!
     
  3. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    I still get that confused, probably won't be the last time either.:)
    Yes, his numbers are lookin' nice.
     
  4. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    That’s ok. That’s what I’m here for;) Yes, this dose works nicely for him.
     
  5. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Just saw his SS for last night and today.

    He dropped below 70 last night. I know it’s hard to remember but any time he drops below 70, please reduce the dose by 0.25u the next cycle. On the bright side, his numbers are not in a dangerous range and he’s looking so much better. I hope he feels better and his coat is better.

    Good luck with the reduction!
     
  6. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    5.5u reduction it is.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2020
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  7. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    We threw what we had on hand at him today to keep him from crashing past 45. He had 45 temptations, and between +3 and +4 he had .6ml of real syrup. All this barely kept him within the numbers on the SS.

    What else would you recommend that we have on hand besides: real syrup, karo, temptations, FF gravy lovers cans, and Friskies high gravy food?
     
  8. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    It looks like he came up pretty fast. It’s not unusual for a member to have to deal with low numbers for an extended time especially with the depot insulins. Below is an example of a really bad day with our baby girl when we missed giving a reduction:

    099157AA-D61E-4365-8FDF-FDD463421CA1.jpeg

    Normally when working low numbers, you want to alternate gravy, even with some karo in it, with high carb food. That keeps them from getting too full. I wonder if the temptations are really doing anything for him. We’ve had other members use them and only need to give 4-5. I might just try the gravy with some karo alternating with the HC food. I know it seems like a lot but 0.6 ml isn’t much at all.

    The big thing to remember, and you did this today, is that HC and karo, syrup, honey wear off in two hours and numbers can come back down.
     
  9. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated. 59 @+3 off to give more stuff....
    Thanks for the info. That does look like a long day in that image.
     
  10. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    I hope he comes up quickly. Just as a note for the future. If you shoot lower like that (great that you did), you should check no later than +2.

    ETA: headed for bed and wanted to be sure he was coming up first. Good job! Please be sure he has a pretty good rise and he’s been two hours without food before you totally quit testing and go to bed. I do hope you all get some rest. It can be like this when you hit a good dose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  11. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    He hit another 72 today. I'm going to reduce him to 5.25u by pmps.

    If he's not higher that 100 I'm not going to shot him with insulin tonight. I know the threshold is 90 w/prozinc, but I don't really feel comfortable even at 100...

    He hit that 471 this morning I'm betting partially due to the Temptations (10) and .4ml of syrup at +5 and then went down fairly quickly today again.....

    SS Updated w/pmps. He's at 71 at pmps so we are Not shooting him with any insulin tonight. We are going to retest him at pmps +.5 and see where he his.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  12. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Sorry I didn’t see this earlier. For the future, remember that you can always stall for a bit and see if the number comes up gradually. While PZ does not have the kind of depot that Lantus and Levemir do, there is still a bit of depot action with it and that might be what you are seeing today. However, it is totally reasonable to try 5.25u and see how he does.

    At least you can get some rest tonight!
     
  13. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Hi.
    We retested him just now at 99. We did do a stall, and waited until 930pm 1/2hr past pmps. He needed just friskies gravy to go from 71 to 99.
    We'll shoot at 5.25u anyway?

    At 99, with 5.25u, won't he only go down? He hasn't eaten much and only the gravy (on his paws only not actually eating it from the bowl) to go up to 99. Physically he hasn't been hungry enough to eat much today. Lately it's taken about 3hrs. for him to get hungry enough to eat out of the bowl, and has been leaning towards the Wet food and not the dry food.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
  14. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    It depends on how long since you fed the friskies gravy. If you just did it, skip. You don’t want to shoot a number influenced by HC food. If it’s been two hours since you fed HC gravy, then you can shoot or skip of you are more comfortable doing so.
     
  15. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    He just ate the gravy 1/2 hour ago to bring the level from 71 to 99. So we will skip this shot tonight.

    Shouldn't the insulin have worn off quite a while ago from his AM shot? Why are his numbers this low now at this time?
     
  16. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    When the dose might be a bit much, it can increase the duration. Sometimes PZ can have up to a 14 hour duration. If you want to see, then check at +14 or +15 and see if he’s headed up.
     
  17. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    So sometime around 11pm (+14) and 12am (+15) he should be headed back up. Depending on his amps number, should we shoot him with 5.25u based on what we have experienced with these results today?
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  18. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    Shot him with 5.25u amps and pmps. Figured the higher numbers today maybe a bounce because he didn't have insulin for 24hrs, and then had a smaller dose. Want to see where 5.25u takes him on this bottle which seems more potent than the first two.
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  19. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    We decided to shoot him again today with 5.25u for the last time for now and will start at 5.5u tomorrow amps. He seemed to level off in the mid 300's-400's with this level so up it goes carefully.
     
  20. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    We stayed with 5.25u and will continue to do so until proven otherwise, with all the Blues he had today.

    We thought that the bounce after a 'no shot' on the 28th would have been more radical but to our surprise it wasn't (only 2 days it seems), by staying the course @ 5.25u instead of going to 5.5u (that would indicate a failed reduction that would necessitate an increase in insulin) and using gravy lovers wet cat food we managed the "Drop" (low BG) and all blues today seems to be the reward.
     
  21. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    I'd stay with the current dose until proven otherwise too.
    You have got a lovely day of blues today.
     
  22. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Just a quick check in. He’s looking GREAT. I agree with @Bron and Sheba (GA). He’s flat. I’d hold the dose. If it starts to trend up, you can increase.
     
  23. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.

    He hit a 33 this morning even on 5.25u, it was a long morning. His lowest number ever, I'm not sure what's up nothing has changed eating wise. He also hit a 65 the hour before so we adjusted the dose down .25u to 5u for today.

    We dropped it to 5u this morning, and even then, he hit a 106 at +4. We gave him his normal food and gravy on his paws. Gravy/syrup seems a good way to manage these drops but they are happening with less insulin even still...... We threw the kitchen sink at him this morning and still didn't get a good number until 430am.

    Any ideas?
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  24. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Good job catching that 33 and handling it well! Can be scary the first time you see a low number like that... but always feed some high carb food/syrup ( whatever you find works for DoDaa) and test again in 20 mins to see the number is rising. And keep testing as you did, as high carb food can wear off quicker than low carb food.
    Do Dar earned a reduction ....congratulations!!
    I see you reduced the dose down to 5 units. That’s the correct thing to do! I see he bounced a bit at AMPS but is settling down again.

    He is telling you that he’s done with the 5.25 dose and needs less insulin. That’s great!
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2020
    Reason for edit: Corrected kitty name...darn autocorrect
    Marje and Gracie and Goose like this.
  25. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Thanks! :)

    Yeah, that 33 was alarming. It's the lowest he's been since starting this process. I'd like to think that he's done with 5.25u and needs less insulin, however, the first two bottles of Prozinc didn't really behave like this third bottle is. This third bottle seems more potent, hopefully this is a sign of things to come and not just a blip on the radar.
     
    Bron and Sheba (GA) likes this.
  26. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Yikes! Great catch. The other thing is he might have hit his fitting dose and broken through resistance. Sometimes the drop down the dosing ladder can look like this.

    You did a super job bringing him up.
     
  27. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    :D
    Hopefully we'll start back down that ladder....

    Could you explain the "fitting dose" a little, if you have the time?
     
  28. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Fitting dose means the correct dose that gets them into normal numbers.
     
  29. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    That's what I thought about the fitting dose, I didn't know if it was anything more complicated than that.

    Hit an 82 at +6, manged further drop with some Gravy Lovers food, bumped up to 116.
     
  30. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
     
  31. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
     
  32. Bron and Sheba (GA)

    Bron and Sheba (GA) Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2015
    Looks like he might be bouncing at PMPS from the 82 today.
    The 116 you have @+7.5 should be coloured blue not green :)
     
  33. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    Color has been changed... :)
     
    Bron and Sheba (GA) likes this.
  34. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    That 526 seems like the 557 a couple of days ago - maybe partially there when the HC gravy, temptations etc. finally kicked in. Greens up until the food started to work...

    Insulin Reduced to 4.75u as he hit a 69 @+6.
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  35. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    That's a nice run of green :D, maybe next time, stick with just the HC gravy and see how that works, or at least maybe a few less than 30 temptations treats :p...not to mention the ham lol. Do Daa must have been in food heaven! You're doing a great job with Do Daa.
     
  36. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Hi.
    The gravy goes on his paws as many times, when tested hour after hour, he doesn't really eat so it's in reality not much gravy. The temptations seem to be a hit or miss with him, those 30 were given over a 2 hour period to make sure he had something in his stomach. The ham was just 4 small thin pieces.
    Sometimes it takes his system a short time to process the food, other times it takes quite a bit longer (as I questioned the blacks at pmps).
    It feels like it's been a long road so far to get him here, thanks for the encouragement from you and everyone who has helped.:)
     
    Christie & Maverick likes this.
  37. Christie & Maverick

    Christie & Maverick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2017
    You seem to have found a good regime that works for Do Daa, that's all that matters. I've seen people have good results with a drop or two of honey or syrup, but I've never used that method, and I find my kitty to be generally very carb sensitive, so a little MC or HC often does the trick for us. Different insulin though, so likely not comparable, as much also as every cat is different. I wish I could offer suggestions on Prozinc, but I have no experience there. We all have to figure out what works for our kitty, and I'd say Do Daa is in good hands. I hear you about long roads...I'm into my journey about 3 years now, but what makes this all easier is having a little help along the way :).
     
  38. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    We like the Prozinc because the dose can be adjusted so easily as his numbers have vacillated up and down. We're going into the 5th month of this process with him, so far the numbers are looking better than when we started. It certainly makes it easier to have the extra help and expertise that's on this board! :)
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  39. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Just checking in. I’m really happy to see he got into green in 5u. I hope he will do as well on 4.75u.
     
  40. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Hi.
    Many blues today, no greens. We'll try it for a couple days and see what happens.
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  41. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Little bouncy. Blue is better than black!
     
  42. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    True, blue is defiantly better than black! He went outside today, first time in a while, for about 15min. While he is an indoor cat, he's very good at staying in a small area in the backyard.
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  43. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    Many greens today. He hit a 70 at +6 and 61 at +7. We Reduced the insulin to 4.5u.
     
  44. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Excellent! You all have it down!!!! Good luck with the reduction.
     
  45. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Once you know what to do and are not afraid to do it, when you have to do it, and have the 'tools' to do it, having to do it doesn't seem so daunting. :)

    With this process you learn to be Relentless, and don't let it beat you down, because it will try.
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  46. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    You all have really stepped up to the plate and learned!
     
    Goose likes this.
  47. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    :D
     
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  48. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    Going to give it another day or so to see about this reduction to 4.5u, it may not take.
     
  49. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Agreed. I wouldn’t sit on it too long.
     
  50. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    SS Updated.
    Lots of Greens this afternoon so we Reduced the insulin to 4.25u. It took some effort for him not to fall past 59 with multiple tries with syrup, some on his gums at two different times and .5ml also. The rest is in the remarks area on the SS.
     
  51. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    There’s no dose in the AMPS column for 2/8 ;)

    Just like them to drop when we threaten a dose increase. Happens almost every time!

    Good luck with this reduction.
     
  52. Goose

    Goose Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2019
    Fixed. :)
    SS Updated.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2020
    Marje and Gracie likes this.
  53. Marje and Gracie

    Marje and Gracie Senior Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2010
    Thanks!:)
     

Share This Page