Oscar gaining weight nonstop despite no regulation. Also question about shooting schedule

[Chloe007]

So for my question about Oscar's shooting schedule, the other day I had no choice but to shoot 11 hours apart instead of 12, and I noticed better numbers. Wondering if this is something I could keep up, or if it'd for some reason be a bad idea? I've read that an hour variance is okay on ProZinc, but is it sustainable for an actual long term plan? We're switching to lev soon and will likely go back to 12 when that happens but we still have a bit of time on ProZinc and with the better numbers and how it works better with my schedule, just looking for some opinions or reassurance this is okay.

Also having a problem with Oscar's weight. When he was diagnosed he was 10lb, and he was definitely too thin. You could see his bones and his face looked gaunt. However despite no regulation in sight, he's continued to put on weight. At his last checkup a month ago he was up to 12 and he looked great, I was happy to see it and so was the vet. But now within just one more month, he's up to 14. He doesn't look necessarily overweight yet, but with his appetite still out of control and me not wanting to "starve" him, I don't know how to stop this trend. I thought they were supposed to have trouble gaining weight until they were regulated! Any ideas? Should I start cutting his portions? Or should I let him eat as he wishes still and deal with any possible extra weight gain after we reach some semblance of regulation?

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

Well, in spite not yet fully regulated maybe he is regulated enough to put on weight.

Perhaps he just likes his food and is Comfort eating. How is his mood?

All my cats weights have gone up and down through their lives, 14 and 17 years.
The Animal Hospital once said my Gustav was not fat but chubby and needed to diet and lose weight. I did an effort with Gustav then but he had his comfort weight and didn't lose any weight so I let him be as he wanted to be. Calm, sleeping a lot, and Happy. The same with Simba.

 

[Deb & Wink]

Yes, you need to stop feeding so much and cut the portions sizes. Try adding water to the food to make it more soupy, and that can make him feel fuller.

Many cats will beg for attention and we automatically give them food. They may really be ok with a hug, some ear scratches, brushing, or play time.

Oscar has learned that begging gets a response of food from you. You will be redirecting his behaviour by giving other types of attention to him. It's called behavioral conditioning. Same thing you used when you gave him treats to get him used to the BG testing routine.

"Conditioning, in physiology, a behavioral process whereby a response becomes more frequent or more predictable in a given environment as a result of reinforcement, with reinforcement typically being a stimulus or reward for a desired response."

 

[Chloe007]

Well, in spite not yet fully regulated maybe he is regulated enough to put on weight.

Perhaps he just likes his food and is Comfort eating. How is his mood?

All my cats weights have gone up and down through their lives, 14 and 17 years.
The Animal Hospital once said my Gustav was not fat but chubby and needed to diet and lose weight. I did an effort with Gustav then but he had his comfort weight and didn't lose any weight so I let him be as he wanted to be. Calm, sleeping a lot, and Happy. The same with Simba.

It really is strange, he's done a complete 180 since he was diagnosed as far as his overall condition but his numbers are still so high. When he was diagnosed he was super skinny, lethargic and had greasy/matted fur. Now he's playful as a kitteh, put on all his lost weight and his fur is as shiny and thick/healthy as ever. His urine output and thirst has definitely gotten better although still too much for a normal cat, his appetite is also a little less ravenous than before but he's still hungry more than he should be. The last visit we had with his vet, she was so happy with how much better he was looking she insisted on a fructosamine test because she didn't believe my home testing was accurate (sigh). I wonder if the eating has become a sort of habit? I'm impressed with how well he's been doing despite these high numbers, but we need to get them down and I don't want to prolong everything by letting him become overweight! Thank you for the input, Ann.

 

[Chloe007]

Yes, you need to stop feeding so much and cut the portions sizes. Try adding water to the food to make it more soupy, and that can make him feel fuller.

Many cats will beg for attention and we automatically give them food. They may really be ok with a hug, some ear scratches, brushing, or play time.

Oscar has learned that begging gets a response of food from you. You will be redirecting his behaviour by giving other types of attention to him. It's called behavioral conditioning. Same thing you used when you gave him treats to get him used to the BG testing routine.

"Conditioning, in physiology, a behavioral process whereby a response becomes more frequent or more predictable in a given environment as a result of reinforcement, with reinforcement typically being a stimulus or reward for a desired response."

Thank you for input, Deb. I have been adding water to his wet food for some time now, I'm big on hydration lol. His diet isn't the "perfect" FDMB diet due to IBD issues and lot's of trial and error of trying to keep that under control while still maintaining a low carb diet, so while he does eat a very small amount of wet food, really all he's doing is licking all the water around the wet food- if he actually eats it too often he will become sick, but it's what his siblings eat so I put the wet food down and he licks up all the water and goes to his feeder for his dry food for actual food. His main source of food is Dr. Elsey's and Ziwipeak (we were going back and forth for a bit during our experimenting phase and these were the only two foods we could find that didn't irritate his IBD and didn't skyrocket his BG). I had been worried about the calorie content in Dr. Elsey's for some time, but I thought as he needed to put on weight at the time and with the information I was given that he was basically feeling starved while unregulated and how it'd be hard to get weight on him until he was, that we had some time before we had to worry too much about that. We do portion it out pretty conservatively and when he begs he usually get's some Ziwkipeak or Pure Bites treats. I suspect I'll need to find a lower calorie food for him, but it'll take some time as virtually all wet food makes him sick, until then I'll see what I can do lesser his portions. I agree that it's probably best to get a handle on this before it becomes a problem. Sorry for the essay, just thought I'd explain in full since he's not a "typical" kitty as far as food goes.

I also do wonder if eating has become more of a habit as well, since all his other symptoms have improved. I do have to say though it's often glaringly obvious when he's hungry, he will sit near his feeder and cry and cry, and recently he even learned how to turn his timed feeder. He will start jumping around and knocking things off shelves, usually right above where I'm sitting to try and strong arm me. He can get pretty destructive lol, and he won't stop until he gets some kind of food. Whether it's because he's actually hungry or he just "wants" to eat though, I can't be sure. I can give him all the pets and rubs in the world, but he becomes nearly manic when he wants food. He doesn't get treats for tests, we do too many of them and he's so good for testing that I've never had to bribe him with treats (he's such a good boy!). I just can't stop thinking about how I've been told this whole time that since he's unregulated, he's virtually starving and I don't want to make him suffer. But I was also told it'd be hard if not impossible to get weight on him, so...

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

A couple of thoughts...

Would you consider a raw food diet? It's a good choice for cats with IBD and works well for diabetics. The website, Raw Feeding for IBD Cats is a good resource and they have a Facebook page if you have questions. I have an IBD cat and feed him a raw diet with a supplement (EZComplete) that provides all of the necessary nutrients.

You may want to consider a "treat ball." If you're using the ZiwiPeak air dried raw food, you can put it in a treat ball so Oscar is chasing the ball around to get a treat.

Increase Oscar's activity. More play time will help him burn off calories.

"Unregulated" is a relative term especially since, like humans, every cat's metabolism is different. The part of the if unregulated, your cat is starving piece that someone forgot to mention is that if your cat becomes too.... ummmm... "fluffy", then you're overfeeding and you need to start cutting back. This link about feeding your cat as much as he wants may help to explain. The post itself is an oldie but goodie and there are a lot of links within the post if you want more information.

 

[Judy and Freckles]

ut his numbers are still so high. When he was diagnosed he was super skinny, lethargic and had greasy/matted fur.

Hi Chloe,
I can relate as this is how Freckles was. With Oscar gaining weight and looking better, you at least know that the insulin is doing something even though the numbers haven't come down yet. My cat isn't much for playing, but she is definitely food driven so I've been using that characteristic for a little bit of exercise by putting treats in dog puzzles and the 'treat ball' that Sienne recommended. I also got a baby/toddler weigh scale and weigh her weekly so I know if she needs to have more calories or less, plus refer to the cat condition chart.

 

[Deb & Wink]

1. A 2 pound weight gain in a month is a lot. Oscar could be retaining fluid or have another medical issue to account for the rapid weight gain. Either rapid weight gain or rapid weight loss are something to talk to your vet about.

2. Do you test Oscar when he is begging for food? Some cats realize when their BG is getting low and know that they need food. You might want to get a BG test when he is begging and 'talking' to you.

3. Portion control is important, Getting the BG's under better control is also important to get Oscar better regulated.

P.s. Please go to your google account and move the 2020 tab for the SS over to the leftmost column. You should be able to click on the tab labeled "2020" and drag it to the left. Otherwise, the 2019 spreadsheet is the one that opens first when we click on your SS link. Thanks.

 

[Chloe007]

1. A 2 pound weight gain in a month is a lot. Oscar could be retaining fluid or have another medical issue to account for the rapid weight gain. Either rapid weight gain or rapid weight loss are something to talk to your vet about.

2. Do you test Oscar when he is begging for food? Some cats realize when their BG is getting low and know that they need food. You might want to get a BG test when he is begging and 'talking' to you.

3. Portion control is important, Getting the BG's under better control is also important to get Oscar better regulated.

P.s. Please go to your google account and move the 2020 tab for the SS over to the leftmost column. You should be able to click on the tab labeled "2020" and drag it to the left. Otherwise, the 2019 spreadsheet is the one that opens first when we click on your SS link. Thanks.

Thanks for the ideas.

1). He's been getting regular blood work almost monthly since being diagnosed in October. It's all been looking better, and nothing to indicate anything else going on (thank God), I'll update results in his labs tab when I find a moment. I understand what you mean about fluid retention, but I don't think that's the cause here, his kidney function is good and no heart failure or anything like that. I'll go over this with the vet next visit anyways to make sure all bases are being covered for the sudden weight gain. However despite the dramatic increase, this is close to his pre diabetes weight. It's mostly just if it keeps up at this rate, it'll be a problem.

2). I'm always trying to find patterns between his behavior and BG, it's never consistent when he has these hunger episodes. I would say more often than not he will be lower (for him and what he's used to, like around the low 200's, high 100's), but never anything close to hypo. I've never caught him anywhere near a hypo ever. Since the those numbers are "low" for his relative normal, this could play into it. I'll keep an eye and pay closer attention to what's happening with his BG during these episodes.

3). I'm working on slowly decreasing his portions, but it really isn't very excessive, probably one snack I could cut out though. He does better with many meals, so I'm going to start being better about measuring his dry food everyday and splitting it up into as many small snacks as I can before his nadir. I think the key here has a lot to do with getting him off the Dr. Elsey's which is high in calories, we're going to work on finding a lower calorie food that agrees with his IBS. More trial and error, yay!

3.) Will do.

Thanks again!

 

[Chloe007]

A couple of thoughts...

Would you consider a raw food diet? It's a good choice for cats with IBD and works well for diabetics. The website, Raw Feeding for IBD Cats is a good resource and they have a Facebook page if you have questions. I have an IBD cat and feed him a raw diet with a supplement (EZComplete) that provides all of the necessary nutrients.

You may want to consider a "treat ball." If you're using the ZiwiPeak air dried raw food, you can put it in a treat ball so Oscar is chasing the ball around to get a treat.

Increase Oscar's activity. More play time will help him burn off calories.

"Unregulated" is a relative term especially since, like humans, every cat's metabolism is different. The part of the if unregulated, your cat is starving piece that someone forgot to mention is that if your cat becomes too.... ummmm... "fluffy", then you're overfeeding and you need to start cutting back. This link about feeding your cat as much as he wants may help to explain. The post itself is an oldie but goodie and there are a lot of links within the post if you want more information.

Thank you Sienne! I'm going to order some of those treat balls, he's a playful kitty but he's not very much of a runner even when I initiate play. He just wants to play in one spot, lol. I've thought about buying one of those giant hamster wheels for him, but I don't think he'd be interested. I do have another more active kitty though who would use it, so I may get one anyways and hope for the best. That being said, he's certainly food motivated so I'll give these treat balls a try!

I'll also look into the raw food diet again too, something about it makes me nervous...I don't know why exactly. It also seems like it would be time consuming. Not that I don't have the time, I think I'm just trumping it up in my head and once I learn more about it I'll get more used to the idea. I'll definitely look at those links!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

If you grind your own meat, it definitely takes more time. I buy ground meat (pork or lamb). Marje has local butchers who stock game meats so she has more options. There are also raw food purveyors (e.g., Hare Today) that ship frozen raw meat like rabbit.

If you're using already ground meet, it takes me about 15 min. to mix and add the supplements (I use EZ Complete from FoodFurLife) and dish the food into ice cube trays. Everything goes into the freezer for a couple days until I pop out the cubes. I defrost what I need overnight in the refrigerator.