Some questions from a new user

[Ivan92]

Hello, dear forum users!
Our cat was diagnosed with diabetes at the end of 2018. During this time, we changed about 3 veterinarians, but could not fully solve the problem of high blood sugar. All 3 said it didn't matter whether the food was dry or wet, and all advised diabetic food, such as Royal Canin Diabetes. In our city there is not a large selection of cat food, ordering from amazon is very expensive, and wet Royal Canin is quite expensive, so we use dry mostly, and wet for dessert.

I've read articles on this site, and they all say that wet food is preferable to dry. How important is it to feed wet? Are all our vets wrong? The first veterinarian prescribed a strict diet, feeding the cat during the day every hour in very small portions. The insulin dose was 0.01 ml levemir. We kept about 5-6h months, but he began to lose weight and constantly asked to eat, even at night woke everyone.

The second veterinarian said not to give insulin if the sugar is less than 18, and to feed as much as he wants, and only prescribed homeopathic medicines. After a week or two, we decided to change the vet because his recommendations looked very strange.

About 1.5 months ago, we contacted another veterinarian, who advised not to limit the cat in food, he began to eat well, but also began to drink a lot of water, and the dose of insulin began to grow, and now it is already 0.02 ml levemir. But sugar now averages 20-25, sometimes 17-20, and during a diet with a dose of 0.01 was about 15-20. His food needs are getting bigger every day.

What are we doing wrong? Do I need to go on a diet again, or do I need to raise my insulin dose? Or maybe we need to add some medication? I would be grateful for any advice, and i apologize in advance for possible mistakes, english is not my native language.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

The issue is the carbohydrate content of whatever it is you feed your cat. There are canned/wet foods that are high in carbs. As a general rule, dry foo is substantially higher in carbohydrates. This food chart contains information on the carb counts for most canned foods available in the US. If you let us know where you live, we may have resources to refer you to. This website on feline nutrition, which I suspect you've seen, goes into great detail about why a canned food or raw food diet is better for your cat. Basically, dry food contains a fair amount of animal by-products (vs muscle meat), plant products (such as forms of cellulose which is basically sawdust), and fats which because dry food is stored for a long time can go rancid. In addition, there is not enough moisture contest and cats have a limited thirst drive. Simply put, the vets have been giving you poor advice.

I'm not sure how you're dosing. Insulin doses are in units, not ml.

It's very hard to help you with dosing without more information. We are very dependent on looking at your cat's blood glucose levels. Can you put some of the information you've collected on a spreadsheet? The instructions are linked if you click on the blue "spreadsheet" in the previous sentence.

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Unfortunately your vets are giving you the wrong advice. Diet plays a big part in controlling the glucose levels. Almost all dry food, including prescription foods, is high in carbs. The best diet for FD is a low carb canned or raw food diet. Pate or loaf flavors usually have lower carbs than anything with gravy. You said you are limited with the availability of canned food diet n your area. Do you have a store that sells Fancy Feast or Friskies canned food? These are not expensive and many of our members feed their cats this food. Here is a link to food charts that give the nutritional information. You want to try to feed foods with 10 or less in the carb column. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

Another option is to make your own cat food. Here is a link to a site that has raw food recipes. http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html

We also recommend home testing. This means testing your cat's glucose levels before every shot. Many of us use human glucose meters to test. The purpose of testing before every shot is to 1) make sure it is safe to give the dose and 2) see how well the dose is working.

If you remove the dry from your cat's diet you should also lower your dose since this will also lower your cat's glucose levels. If you don't, you risk hypoglycemia occurring.

BTW, your English is great.

 

[Ivan92]

Thanks a lot for your replies!

This food chart contains information on the carb counts for most canned foods available in the US. If you let us know where you live, we may have resources to refer you to.

I checked the entire list that You gave and compared it with the market in my city, and found only about 5 companies that were on the list, and after sifting out too expensive feed, there were only 3 positions left, besides Royal Canine "Diabetic". Of these, the cheapest and most acceptable substance content was Pro Plan Veterinary Diets Feline DM Diabetes Management (in tin cans). All well and good, BUT! It contains only 90 kcal of energy. In royal canin Diabetic, which we now use, about 387 kcal. It turns out that we will have to buy 4 times more wet food than dry. Now we give him a month about 3 kg of dry food, and 3 kg of wet. According to this: "https://www.pfma.org.uk/cat-calorie-calculator-nrc-method" this dry food gives approximately 320 kkal/100 g, and wet 65 kcal/100g (Royal Canin Diabetic) . Recommendations from the same site are 70 g/day for dry, and 360 g / day for wet. This is strange, because now we give 100 g of dry and 100 g of wet per day, but this site recommends only 70 g of dry. They cost about the same in the calculation of money / weight, but the energy consumption is obtained for a wet 5 times more, and accordingly the same cost. This is very expensive for us at the moment. Maybe, this calculator also calculates the calorie content of carbohydrates (they do not need to be entered on the site) by subtracting all other components, and this is not correct, because of their harmful effect, idk.

This website on feline nutrition, which I suspect you've seen, goes into great detail about why a canned food or raw food diet is better for your cat. Basically, dry food contains a fair amount of animal by-products (vs muscle meat), plant products (such as forms of cellulose which is basically sawdust), and fats which because dry food is stored for a long time can go rancid. In addition, there is not enough moisture contest and cats have a limited thirst drive. Simply put, the vets have been giving you poor advice.

I live in Russia. Yes, I've seen a lot of articles about wet food being preferable. I would love to switch to wet, but the financial situation does not allow this to happen yet. I'll try to calculate how much water he drinks per day, and how much in the wet feed, and see if it turns out less moisture consumption when eating dry food and drinking from a bowl. I will also try to look for good local producers of wet food, but I do not believe in their quality. We have bad food control here, i think.

I'm not sure how you're dosing. Insulin doses are in units, not ml.

the packaging lists the contents of Levemir 100 units/ml. So we give him 2 units at a time, or 4 units a day. 5 days ago we went to the vet because the cat was not feeling well (vomited), and by the way he gave new recommendations for taking insulin, and now we give 2.5 and tomorrow we want to increase the dose to 3, because the sugar does not fall below 16-17.

It's very hard to help you with dosing without more information. We are very dependent on looking at your cat's blood glucose levels. Can you put some of the information you've collected on a spreadsheet? The instructions are linked if you click on the blue "spreadsheet" in the previous sentence.

Thank you. I'll try to make one when I have more free time.

UPD: i tried to upload photos of my notebook with measurements of blood sugar in last month, but for some reason it didn't work out. I don't know what this problem is connected to.

Unfortunately your vets are giving you the wrong advice. Diet plays a big part in controlling the glucose levels. Almost all dry food, including prescription foods, is high in carbs. The best diet for FD is a low carb canned or raw food diet. Pate or loaf flavors usually have lower carbs than anything with gravy. You said you are limited with the availability of canned food diet n your area. Do you have a store that sells Fancy Feast or Friskies canned food? These are not expensive and many of our members feed their cats this food. Here is a link to food charts that give the nutritional information. You want to try to feed foods with 10 or less in the carb column. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/links-to-food-charts.174182/

Unfortunately, we don't have Fancy Feasts, I was counting on them too, when i start to explore wet foods. A good option seemed to me Pro Plan Veterinary Diets Feline DM Diabetes Management. If believe the calculator, the link to which I gave above, it turns out to be ~ 1.6 times more calories (106 kcal/100g) than Diabetic, probably because the humidity is 76 % against 82.5 %. If believe the calculator, the link to which I gave above, it turns out to be ~ 1.6-times more calories than Diabetic, probably because the humidity is 76 % against 82.5, and the amount of food per day is 225 g. Maybe it's a decision, I'll think about it. it is of course still expensive, but not so much

Another option is to make your own cat food. Here is a link to a site that has raw food recipes. http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html

ooh.. this topic is too big I will definitely study this topic in the future

We also recommend home testing. This means testing your cat's glucose levels before every shot. Many of us use human glucose meters to test. The purpose of testing before every shot is to 1) make sure it is safe to give the dose and 2) see how well the dose is working.

Yeah.. we are practicing home measurement, and I hope I can attach photos of the diary to this post. They are of poor quality, but I have no other camera than the phone camera, so I apologize in advance.

If you remove the dry from your cat's diet you should also lower your dose since this will also lower your cat's glucose levels. If you don't, you risk hypoglycemia occurring.

I've thought about it too, but my concern is, won't it also lead to a reducing the caloric content of food? I've thought about it too, but my concern is, won't it also lead to a risk of reducing the caloric content of food? If we give him less food, which means fewer calories, he starts to cry and meowing. At night it is especially disturbing.

BTW, your English is great.

Not mine, Google Translate But thanks anyway

 

[Wendy&Neko]

You want to give lower carbs, not lower calories. Calories generally come the fats in the foods. Dry foods are generally much higher carbohydrates than most wet foods. Wet foods an still give you the calories your cat needs. In addition to making your own food, there are some companies that make premixes that include most of the nutrients you need. Just add meat, water, and possibly an egg. TC Feline in Germany is one such company.