? Dosing question

[Patty & Teal'c]

I have been wanting to change Teal'c to low carb wet from high carb dry. Been doing it slowly mixing dry with Fancy Feast Pate. Yesterday at a.m. preshot feed I realize I was out of his dry but wanted to feed him and give his shot so just gave him Fancy Feast Chicken Pate. Went to bed. I always check him when I get. Usually around +8. Almost always he is at 400+. Yesterday at that time I got 294. I'm sure it was a combination of low carb wet and the insulin but then it made me wonder how low did it take him. I had to work last night and couldn't be home so bought a small bag of dry and a lot of wet (54 cans). Gave him his mixed food and his shot. This morning he was at 445 which is about normal.

I decided to see what numbers I would get if I withheld his insulin and fed only the Fancy Feast. I've been testing every 3 hours it is basically a straight line. I'm home tonight and will continue to test through out the night but being in the 400's all day I'm a bit hesitant to withhold insulin again tonight. Unsure how much to start with. Afraid 2.5 units prozinc might be too much. Should I start with maybe 1 unit and adjust from there. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

I'm not sure what your rationale is for withholding insulin. I understand your apprehension about the dry food keeping numbers high and that feeding Teal'c only a low carb diet may drop the numbers. You can certainly start over with respect to dosing (i.e., 1.0u) if you plan on keeping your kitty on a low carb diet.

It would be helpful if you could always get a pre-shot test. At this point, even with the 294, you have no idea if numbers kept dropping and if it was safe to give insulin. We encourage you to always get a pre-shot test and to get spot checks so you know how low a dose of insulin is taking your cat's numbers.

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

Thank you for your response.

I work at 5 p.m. to 5 a.m. this week that was tuesday through Saturday which is why there is no p.m. pretest. I was home Monday and there is a p.m. pretest that day.

My husband gives the p.m. shot on the nights I work. He does not test. I have been glad he will at least give the shot or I don't know what I would do.

The other choice I have is the p.m. shot being an hour and 1/2 early I leave home at 4:12. He has been getting his shot at 5:30 a.m. and p.m.

Yes I messed up but was just trying to gauge what the low carb would do. I'm really new at this and very scared about what to do, what not to do. I have cried a lot since his diagnosis and most times feel very alone in this.

I'm going to go with the one unit tonight and see where it goes. Hopefully by tomorrow I'll be able to see a clear direction I need to go.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Patricia --

We all know how overwhelming this is at the outset. You're doing great! All any of us can do is our best and you are clearly devoted to Teal'C. The good news is that Prozinc is more forgiving than Lantus (or Levemir) so I don't think you "messed up."

Do you think there's any way we can help you twist your husband's arm and get him to test?

Part of what I'm going to assume is responsible for that flat line of red numbers is what we call a "bounce". Teal'C dropped into a blood glucose range that he's not used to spending much time in. As a result, his liver and pancreas overreact and dump a stored form of glucose along with counter-regulatory hormones into the blood stream and numbers spike back up. Hence the numbers in the 400s. I don't know if the 1.0u will be too little insulin. It will certainly be a safe amount if you are going to keep Teal'C on a low carb canned food diet.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

Patricia, hugs

You are a great mum, and you can comfort yourself that with your night work hours 5 p.m to 5 a.m most of us others with diabetics are asleep and kind of knows very little what goes on with our kitties when we are asleep.

Myself, I and Gustav and Simba have to manage ourselves all solo without a partner. And we made it work. So once both you and your husband learns more it gets better.

You also have to get sufficient sleep of course when you get home from work.


We'll see what your bg curve tests today yield in bg numbers. Please post them.

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

I'm wondering if he won't test what if I tested just before I head for work would that be too early to tell if safe for him to shoot. I will work with him to get him up to speed. If I can do it so can he.

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

On a side note I have put together my hypo kit because of the food switch incase we do go to low.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

I'm wondering if he won't test what if I tested just before I head for work would that be too early to tell if safe for him to shoot. I will work with him to get him up to speed. If I can do it so can he.

I let the Prozinc experts give the input on that.

You leave for work 4 a.m and he gets his morning insulin 5 a.m.

I don't know if the Prozinc is used up then after 10,5 hours, 1 1/2 hour before 5 a.m.

I read the Prozink insulin groups protocol sticky http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/protocol-for-prozinc-pzi.165103/

From the Prozinc beginners guide

'HOW PROZINC/ PZI INSULINS WORK

All insulins are prescribed to supplement an insulin deficiency in a diabetic cat. There are several types of insulin that work differently. Prozinc is a cat-specific insulin that many people have used with great success.

• Prozinc is an “in and out” insulin. This means that the insulin does not build up in the system and stay there. “Onset” is when the insulin starts working, usually between 2 to 3 hours after the shot is given (depending on your cat’s own unique metabolism). ProZinc generally lasts 12 hours (“duration”) resulting in a “curve” of BG numbers, downward around mid-cycle, then back upward toward the end of each 12-hour cycle. '

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

I notice on 1 unit his BG is very flat line and steady unlike the BG on 2.5 units which went from high 400 down to low 300. I'm guessing that's the bouncing I have read about.

What I'm getting is still high but as I said steady. Should I hold him at 1 unit for now?

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

Patricia, hugs

You are a great mum, and you can comfort yourself that with your night work hours 5 p.m to 5 a.m most of us others with diabetics are asleep and kind of knows very little what goes on with our kitties when we are asleep.

Myself, I and Gustav and Simba have to manage ourselves all solo without a partner. And we made it work. So once both you and your husband learns more it gets better.

You also have to get sufficient sleep of course when you get home from work.


We'll see what your bg curve tests today yield in bg numbers. Please post them.

The numbers while higher then one would like are very straight line since yesterday p.m. shot. Not sure what this is telling me.

 

[Ann & Scatcats]

The numbers while higher then one would like are very straight line since yesterday p.m. shot. Not sure what this is telling me.

Indeed they were.

You gave him more wet food than dry?

Try to increase his wet food more and decrease his dry food and stay around the 1 U of the Prozinc for 1-2 days more with a few more bg number measures.

Perhaps he is a 1,5 U but we won't know that until a little bg number measures.

Did you know that there are many cats that can become only wet food diet controlled?

 

[Patty & Teal'c]

Indeed they were.

You gave him more wet food than dry?

Try to increase his wet food more and decrease his dry food and stay around the 1 U of the Prozinc for 1-2 days more with a few more bg number measures.

Perhaps he is a 1,5 U but we won't know that until a little bg number measures.

Did you know that there are many cats that can become only wet food diet controlled?

Wet food only Fancy Feast classic Chicken Pate and Fancy Feast seafood classic pate is all he has received since yesterday morning. I did get a bag of Dr. Elsey's clean protein for snacks between meals but haven't opened it yet.