12/9 Whiz AMPS 396

[Whiz's Human]

Hi,
My children's cat was diagnosed this summer after it occurred to me that he wasn't just begging for water to annoy me. I did the spreadsheet for your info - we had a couple of months of monitoring and increasing doses before I started keeping track and it seemed like we had numbers that dipped below 200 at first, then they just kept getting higher even though the dose was increasing. I just feel like we aren't getting anywhere. Every time we take a curve we send it to the vet and she says to increase by one unit....since it is a free phone conversation, I don't expect more than that. I am looking for advice or just the assurance that we are on the right track.
One note: Acana dry food is the only food we have ever been able to feed without him vomiting himself half to death or ripping half his fur out. Grain free doesn't help, Fancy Feast was mostly just the barbering more than vomiting but he clearly was still having some kind of reaction. He won't eat plain chicken to supplement the dry food and I can't do homemade food unless it is laid out in the simplest terms without me having to fret that it's the wrong thing/too much minerals/not enough vitamins/etc.
Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

Sarah and Whiz, has Polydipsia, probably neuropathy; Lantus, Acana chicken based dry food, Denver
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...kCRj47AXsYfGj6XBBoVj0zs_rTEr7_a_s44wL/pubhtml

 

[Sue and Luci]

Welcome to the forum!

Do you know what the carb count is for Acana?

Sorry to hear he has so many eating issues...poor thing.

Glad that you've caught that he's diabetic and that you're treating him. Nice job on the SS.

Have you read the 'Yellow Stickies' at the top of this forum? There's a lot of information there for getting started. Since Whiz is on dry food the only protocol that will work is SLGS - since no dry is allowed on TR.

Also, do you have syringes to measure his insulin OR are you using the pen + pen tips to inject?

When you get a moment - could you please edit your title to read: 12/9 Whiz AMPS ### and your question? It helps us determine when it was written as you'll want to post again tomorrow with a new date. Thank you!

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

I can't do homemade food unless it is laid out in the simplest terms without me having to fret that it's the wrong thing/too much minerals/not enough vitamins/etc.

You can use EZComplete (you just add water to meat)

 

[Whiz's Human]

Thanks for the replies. Acana is about 30% carbs. I use syringes to treat him. I read the yellow stickies (or a lot of them anyways). I guess what I am really wondering is if his blood sugar numbers look like a normal progression from uncontrolled to controlled? Any thoughts there? It seems like four months and still increasing is a lot but I have no perspective.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Welcome Sarah!!

I ran the numbers on Acana and saw the same thing - over 30% carbohydrate. That's exceptionally high carb food. We consider low carb to be under 10% and most of our cats eat closer to 5% carb (give or take) and high carb is over 15%. You've been feeding Whiz the equivalent of ice cream and cake. It's not a surprise that you're struggling to get your kitty into better numbers.

The large dose of insulin is likely a result of what you're feeding Whiz. However, this isn't always the case. Generally, when we see a kitty that needs over 6.0u of insulin we suggest getting the cat tested for both acromegaly and insulin resistance. This will require that your vet o a blood draw and send the sample to Michigan State University's veterinary lab which is the only place where these tests are run. This post has information on high dose conditions.

Chris provided a link to what's called a "pre-mix." EZComplete is a powder that you mix with water and then add ground meat. You can use any protein. I have a kitty with IBD and he eats either raw pork or lamb that I mix with EZComplete and then freee in ice cube trays. Given your kitty's reaction to some foods, have you tried novel protein -- rabbit, venison, lamb? There are some low carb canned foods that are novel proteins (e.g., ZiwiPeak).

For a cat that's eating 30% carb food, the numbers aren't bad. But, that's way too high carb of a diet for a diabetic. I'd really encourage you to try to find a food that agrees with Whiz's dietary needs and doesn't cause vomiting or excessive grooming.

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Hi and welcome. There isn't really enough data yet to say where Whiz is at, it seems closer to what we categorize as treated but not regulated. See here What is Regulation?

You may want to try the Fit and Trim by Orijen, it is made by Champion foods who also makes Acana. Carb count is closer to 18%.

There are many people here who have experience in treating diabetes in cats. If you have questions please continue to post. Just a small comment if I may, your dosing seems a bit inconsistent from what we follow here,
Dosing Methods

ETA I see you are only just recently noting data, diagnosis in summer.

 

[Whiz's Human]

Thanks for the replies. I ordered the EZComplete. Now we will just have to get him and his best friend Jack to eat meat. and not puke. or become a ball of itchy black and dandruff. One last question- if I get him to eat a meat based diet, how do I make sure I don't send him hypoglycemic? Is there a sticky for cutting carbs while on insulin? Is it the same process as insulin? Increment and then do a glucose curve, increment again? How do I know how much to cut the insulin if he starts getting low numbers (maybe I am getting way to far ahead/being way to optimistic .

 

[Chris & China (GA)]

how do I make sure I don't send him hypoglycemic?

It should take you at least a week to transition onto a new food, especially raw. A lot of cats don't recognize it as food so it may take much longer. During the transition time, you'll be testing (hopefully at least 4 times a day...more if you can) so you'll see how his numbers react to the food change.

(maybe I am getting way to far ahead/being way to optimistic

Probably, but what's wrong with wishful thinking and positivity??

 

[Christie & Maverick]

Good for you in cutting out the dry, that may work wonders in reducing the amount of insulin Whiz needs. Normally food should be switched gradually, or else the kitty can get an upset tummy. That said I don't know what proportion of new food to old, since I have never used EZ complete. They may make a suggestion on their packaging.

If I remember correctly, when I stopped dry, it took a few days to clear the system. You'd have to keep a close eye on his numbers. Since you are at 8u, you'd reduce by 0.5u if you get under 68 with Alphatrak2 meter following TR or if you get a number under 90 following SLGS, which it looks like you have identified on your SS. Perhaps someone with more experience will suggest what to do with your current dose, since your increases have been a bit different than we would do.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome. You have come to the best place to get help for your kitty.
I am so glad you have ordered the supplements to go with meat.
I echo what Sienne has said. Feeding 30% carbs is like feeding party food every meal.
I would look at trying a protein Whiz has not had before. This may help the vomiting.

My cat Sheba had chronic diarrhoea which the vets could not find a reason for. I changed to a raw diet and the diarrhoea stopped. Probably an allergy to something in the canned food.

When you start swapping over to the raw diet do it very slowly. This will not only help stop any sudden reaction from Whiz but the Blood glucose levels should drop slowly.
You will notice a drop in the BGLevels and you will need to be testing frequently during that time. As the BG levels drop we can help you reduce the dose.

When you are ready to start the raw diet post and ask for guidance and we will help you every step of the way.

We increase and decrease doses in 1/4 unit increments not 1 unit increments.
Ask lots of questions, we are very happy to help

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks for the replies. I ordered the EZComplete. Now we will just have to get him and his best friend Jack to eat meat. and not puke. or become a ball of itchy black and dandruff. One last question- if I get him to eat a meat based diet, how do I make sure I don't send him hypoglycemic? Is there a sticky for cutting carbs while on insulin? Is it the same process as insulin? Increment and then do a glucose curve, increment again? How do I know how much to cut the insulin if he starts getting low numbers (maybe I am getting way to far ahead/being way to optimistic .

First, you’ll want to transition to raw with the EZC very slowly. You would do this even if he wasn’t diabetic. When I transitioned my non-diabetic cats, it took a week from canned to raw; I went very slowly and for each new protein, I introduced it the same way.

The instructions for how to transition from kibble to raw are here. You have to scroll down quite a way and look under Transition Options” and then “Transitioning directly from kibble”. It also instructs you how to follow the slow method of transition.

As you slowly change foods, keep testing. As the BG starts to drop, post and ask about the dose. We won’t know until we see what he does.

You might want to look at Scooter’s SS and see what happened when, against advice, she took all her cats completely off dry food (so Scooter couldn’t get “contraband). Click on the 2013-2014 tab and scroll to Feb 18. He dropped from +5u to remission really fast and it was grueling.