? 12/9 Blackie AMPS +398 +8 372

Sherry and Blackie

Sherry and Blackie

Member Since 2019
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/12-8-blackie-amps-384-2-371.222676/#post-2489720
Took Blackie to vet today. He's been eating really slow and wanted his teeth checked turned out he had gum infection. He got an antibiotic shot, so hopefully that will help. Anyways had convo about diabetes. Told him I stayed with Lantus and had switched him to wet food. His thoughts were that Lantus is only good if helps in first few months getting them into remission. Otherwise he said other insulin may be better for Blackie. He also said even though Purina DM dry food is higher carb it's still better than Friskies. He said other than hydration he didn't feel like wet was better than dry food. So confused after all this. I told him I would stay my course and let him know if I wanted to change . He's a great vet , I've known him 20 years. But I'm not sure I agree with his ideas . Thoughts ? Hope everyone's kitties are having a great day. Sorry to ramble .
 
Sherry and Blackie said:
Hi,
Took Blackie to vet today. He's been eating really slow and wanted his teeth checked turned out he had gum infection. He got an antibiotic shot, so hopefully that will help. Anyways had convo about diabetes. Told him I stayed with Lantus and had switched him to wet food. His thoughts were that Lantus is only good if helps in first few months getting them into remission. Otherwise he said other insulin may be better for Blackie. He also said even though Purina DM dry food is higher carb it's still better than Friskies. He said other than hydration he didn't feel like wet was better than dry food. So confused after all this. I told him I would stay my course and let him know if I wanted to change . He's a great vet , I've known him 20 years. But I'm not sure I agree with his ideas . Thoughts ? Hope everyone's kitties are having a great day. Sorry to ramble .
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Just curious if he recommended another insulin?
 
Most vets don't get that much training in diabetes. He may not really understand how Lantus works. There have been cats go into remission while on Lantus after the first few months. Dry food stays in their system longer and makes it harder to see how the insulin is working. I know your vet means well, but I don't think he knows much about Lantus.

I hope the infection clears up soon. Sending prayers.
 
Blackie, whatcha doing up there?!

Sherry, I just quickly popped in and I'm sure others will be by with some comments. I am surprised that Novolin was suggested, that is very harsh on kitties, and is in and out, meaning it has a quick effect, and can drop BG very quickly. Perhaps back in the day before Lantus and Levemir or Prozinc were available, that was all that pet owners had for an option. As for the dry food, well there is a lot of information here, not just due to the high carb content, but also other potential health issues...think UTI.

Here is the link, you have likely read it ... http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...r-more-than-just-carbohydrate-content.175004/

I know it would be nice to be able to work with your vet, but yes, in cases like yours, I would just smile and nod, and keep going with what you are doing!
 
I'm not surprised anymore by what I hear about what vets say. I'm still disappointed because I too was given bad information from not one, but two vets. After joining this forum I learned that they only tell you what they know - and that's very little. They are more familiar with canine diabetes than feline - and get very little training about feline diabetes. They don't have time to keep up with the literature about FD and one can understand that they are treating a variety of animals with a variety of problems. FD requires a great deal of knowledge and finesse to treat - as you probably have learned while on this forum.

I do believe the collective knowledge and experience of this group far exceeds any normal vet - in just about any normal vet practice anywhere. Yes, there are some exceptions - but those are few and far between.

I'm glad you like your vet and you should continue to see him for other things...however, as far as diabetes goes - I tell my vet that Luci has diabetes and I'm treating her - they proceed to tell me about DM being a better food, etc. etc. and I say, ok, thank you, good to know - I'm not going to waste my time there trying to explain all about FD and best foods, etc. and certainly not going to get into it about which insulin I'm treating her with. It's just not productive - I'd rather focus on other medical issues/topics and move on and I'm sure they are happy to let it go at that...

You already know more about FD than your vet - and you know what you need to do to take care of Blackie! I hope the infection in his teeth is soon resolved with the antibiotics. Did you ask about having his teeth cleaned? Always important for these FD cats to keep those teeth in tip top shape.

Have a great evening Sherry!
 
carfurby said:
Most vets don't get that much training in diabetes. He may not really understand how Lantus works. There have been cats go into remission while on Lantus after the first few months. Dry food stays in their system longer and makes it harder to see how the insulin is working. I know your vet means well, but I don't think he knows much about Lantus.

I hope the infection clears up soon. Sending prayers.
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Thanks Carla. That's what I thought but I started doubting myself.
 
Sue and Luci said:
I'm not surprised anymore by what I hear about what vets say. I'm still disappointed because I too was given bad information from not one, but two vets. After joining this forum I learned that they only tell you what they know - and that's very little. They are more familiar with canine diabetes than feline - and get very little training about feline diabetes. They don't have time to keep up with the literature about FD and one can understand that they are treating a variety of animals with a variety of problems. FD requires a great deal of knowledge and finesse to treat - as you probably have learned while on this forum.

I do believe the collective knowledge and experience of this group far exceeds any normal vet - in just about any normal vet practice anywhere. Yes, there are some exceptions - but those are few and far between.

I'm glad you like your vet and you should continue to see him for other things...however, as far as diabetes goes - I tell my vet that Luci has diabetes and I'm treating her - they proceed to tell me about DM being a better food, etc. etc. and I say, ok, thank you, good to know - I'm not going to waste my time there trying to explain all about FD and best foods, etc. and certainly not going to get into it about which insulin I'm treating her with. It's just not productive - I'd rather focus on other medical issues/topics and move on and I'm sure they are happy to let it go at that...

You already know more about FD than your vet - and you know what you need to do to take care of Blackie! I hope the infection in his teeth is soon resolved with the antibiotics. Did you ask about having his teeth cleaned? Always important for these FD cats to keep those teeth in tip top shape.

Have a great evening Sherry!
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Hi! Yeah I tried to mention things I learned but he was just blah blah blah. I did like that he didn't push me to change but you could tell he wasn't listening to me at all about the diabetes . I am going to schedule a cLeaning but he said he would like this infection to clear first.
 
Sherry and Blackie said:
I tried to mention things I learned
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Yep...I've been there too...I don't really bother much anymore. My first vet said something along the lines of 'don't bother with that 'internet stuff'...diabetic cats are really hard to regulate, she's going to pee all over your house and will hide from you - then the said if it were his cat, he'd put her down...

I don't see him anymore - for anything...too bad there's not an angry emoji here...because after I got over being upset at her diagnosis I was very angry with that guy for saying that to us...

Oh well...his loss, my gain :) Luci has enriched my life for over two years since that day - although I could have done without being up half the night last night...but that's just part of the game :)
 
When I look at Dr. Lisa's food chart they're pretty comparable. Friskies has a little more phosphorous but DM(wet) has higher carbs overall. The biggest difference in my mind? Price point! that's my personal problem with the pushing of prescription food... it's comparable to normal pet store food nutritionally but costs so much more!

During Mowgli's check up last month the vet told me it 'couldn't hurt to try DM' and I said that I had looked at the ingredients carb% and phosphorous values and found the values to be comparable and he said: well I haven't looked at those values so I will take your word for it. It could be that your vet assumes that the DM is better than Friskies because it is a low cost brand. Additionally! I just got Mowgli's Blood work back and he is doing really well on all fronts eating Fancy Feast pates... I was nervous that the high phosphorous might harm his kidneys but there is no evidence of that. The ingredients are similar too, here is a screen shot of the ingredients of Purina ProPlan DM (left)and Friskies Chicken pate (right).
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I do see more organ meat in the DM and there is 'by-products' in the Friskies but I'm pretty sure when cat's eat prey in the wild they eat the 'by products' ;). Personally if I was going to splurge more on cat food I would probably invest in something like Weruva or something like that with good ingredients and very low carbs :)
 

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Sue and Luci said:
Yep...I've been there too...I don't really bother much anymore. My first vet said something along the lines of 'don't bother with that 'internet stuff'...diabetic cats are really hard to regulate, she's going to pee all over your house and will hide from you - then the said if it were his cat, he'd put her down...

I don't see him anymore - for anything...too bad there's not an angry emoji here...because after I got over being upset at her diagnosis I was very angry with that guy for saying that to us...

Oh well...his loss, my gain :) Luci has enriched my life for over two years since that day - although I could have done without being up half the night last night...but that's just part of the game :)
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I can't believe your ex-vet said that. OMG. Definitely deserves angry emoji. Hopefully Luci will not keep you up tonight.
 
AmandaE said:
When I look at Dr. Lisa's food chart they're pretty comparable. Friskies has a little more phosphorous but DM(wet) has higher carbs overall. The biggest difference in my mind? Price point! that's my personal problem with the pushing of prescription food... it's comparable to normal pet store food nutritionally but costs so much more!

During Mowgli's check up last month the vet told me it 'couldn't hurt to try DM' and I said that I had looked at the ingredients carb% and phosphorous values and found the values to be comparable and he said: well I haven't looked at those values so I will take your word for it. It could be that your vet assumes that the DM is better than Friskies because it is a low cost brand. Additionally! I just got Mowgli's Blood work back and he is doing really well on all fronts eating Fancy Feast pates... I was nervous that the high phosphorous might harm his kidneys but there is no evidence of that. The ingredients are similar too, here is a screen shot of the ingredients of Purina ProPlan DM (left)and Friskies Chicken pate (right).View attachment 49689
I do see more organ meat in the DM and there is 'by-products' in the Friskies but I'm pretty sure when cat's eat prey in the wild they eat the 'by products' ;). Personally if I was going to splurge more on cat food I would probably invest in something like Weruva or something like that with good ingredients and very low carbs :)
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Can you explain what the concern is with phosphorus. Does high phosphorus cause kidney problems? Where does the phosphorus come from? The protein or an additive. Sorry all the questions. So glad Mowgli's bloodwork was good!
 
Sherry and Blackie said:
Can you explain what the concern is with phosphorus. Does high phosphorus cause kidney problems? Where does the phosphorus come from? The protein or an additive. Sorry all the questions. So glad Mowgli's bloodwork was good!
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I think cats that have kidney problems are directed to stay away from high phosphorous foods, some members who can't afford low Phosphorous foods use phosphorous binders so that less of it makes it into their system (from what I've read around here). I don't know if it causes kidney issues but I know it isn't good for kitties with kidney issues. I would imagine that it comes from the additives(like processed human food) but I don't really know :oops: I wouldn't worry too much about Phosphorous if Blackie doesn't have a pre-existing kidney problem. Sorry if I caused concern:facepalm:
 
Phosphorus is in meat and bones. It is a required mineral, and for a healthy cat it isn't an issue, as their kidneys can excrete excess phosphorus.

The problem with kitties who have chronic renal failure (when I dealt with it), now being called chronic kidney disease is that they have lost kidney function (tracked by stages of kidney disease) so they have a harder time getting rid of excess phosphorus, and it builds up in their system, which makes them feel awful. Managing the phosphorus content in food and/or using phosphorus binders when their numbers are too high then becomes necessary. To me, having had two kitties with CRF in the past, I try and find foods that are a little lower in phosphorus, just because I try not to poke the bear if I can help it :p. But, I don't worry too much about it, since I get regular blood tests for the kitties, and so far their Phosphorus is just fine, Interestingly, I was reading a story about a study on cat foods in Germany that were super high phosphorus leading healthy cats into kidney disease. I wish I could read the actual study itself :rolleyes:
 
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