? Snickers Update AMPS 144/166

Snickers and Chrissy

Snickers and Chrissy

Member Since 2019
Update 11/25/19
Snickers morning AMPS is 144 after small late evening snack of her regular wet food and skipped evening shot. Waiting 15-20 minutes without food and testing again. Not sure if I should shoot.

**Just checked again and said 166. I will give her the shot.


Update 11/24
Snickers tested at 99 again and before that I checked her like 3 times and it was all around the 90s, so I think that's the correct number.

I wasn't thinking about it before, but when I tested her at 174 earlier, she was stressed out because my brother was learning how to test her for the first time and she kept trying to get away. I bet that's why it tested higher earlier. I will keep checking her throughout the night, but am not shooting at this time.

Thanks for all your help.

***
Previous thread.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...s-2-64-or-84-did-i-do-something-wrong.221991/

This morning AMPS Snickers was at 207 with Alpha Track 2. I didn't check as much as I have been today, but +6 it was 120. +9 was 174. I just did her PMPS and it was 92. I checked again and got 105. Again, after some agitation, and 119.

I just checked with the control solution and it checked out.

How could it drop down between +9 and PMPS?! I'm totally freaking out and have no idea what this means. I'm still too new to this. Please help.

Her morning shot was not even .25 I don't think. It was like .10 or .15 or something. It's the very first line on the U100 needles. Not the first little line, like the first line at all that I don't think even counts as a measurement.

Do different parts of her ear give different numbers? She didn't eat all her food this morning. Like 40%. Thanks to any help.
 
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Snickers and Chrissy said:
How could it drop down between +9 and PMPS?!
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Did you double check that test? Maybe she heard a loud noise just before then? Or she's showing the Lantus double dip, which happens with some kitties. Where they do a smaller dip at the end of the cycle, but not as low as the main part of the cycle.

Can you wait 15 minutes and retest? Have you fed? If not, don't.

And please take down the 911, we like to reserve those for medical emergencies. The ? prefix is fine, along with HELP in the signature.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Did you double check that test? Maybe she heard a loud noise just before then? Or she's showing the Lantus double dip, which happens with some kitties. Where they do a smaller dip at the end of the cycle, but not as low as the main part of the cycle.

Can you wait 15 minutes and retest? Have you fed? If not, don't.

And please take down the 911, we like to reserve those for medical emergencies. The ? prefix is fine, along with HELP in the signature.
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No I didn't double check the 174. It seemed in line with her other days. I'm feeding her now. Will recheck. Took down the 911. I guess it just felt like a 911 to me :)
 
Did you actually end up shooting according to your SS?

If you didn't, like Wendy said, stall/wait 15 minutes and retest.

Snickers and Chrissy said:
She didn't eat all her food this morning. Like 40%.
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We encourage feeding more than twice a day to help kitties surf the curve. So even if she didn't eat all her breakfast, she still has a chance to eat later in the cycle.
 
Crista & Ming said:
Did you actually end up shooting according to your SS?

If you didn't, like Wendy said, stall/wait 15 minutes and retest.


We encourage feeding more than twice a day to help kitties surf the curve. So even if she didn't eat all her breakfast, she still has a chance to eat later in the cycle.
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Feed more than twice a day? I thought we were only supposed to feed twice a day. Hmm. I'm confused now. I'll recheck in a little bit. No, I didn't give her the shot. I got scared.
 
Next time you have PS number that you are not comfortable shooting, DON'T feed, post on the board for help, stall (wait 15-30 minutes), and retest. The next test you do may be food influenced.

@Wendy&Neko I'll have to defer what to do to you since she doesn't have much data and is at a low dose.
 
Snickers and Chrissy said:
Feed more than twice a day? I thought we were only supposed to feed twice a day.
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With the older insulins, the recommendation was to feed just twice a day. The longer lasting depot insulins, like Lantus, you don't need to do that. In fact, like for human diabetics, multiple smaller meals is better. Just try to feed most of the carbs before nadir, when the insulin effect is stronger.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I suggested you NOT feed, wait and retest.
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Oh. Oops. She was already eating when I posted this. I'll wait next time. Well, I retested and she was still at 99. And I thought about it and realized that when I checked her earlier and got that 174 number, my brother was here and she got scared because I was showing him how to test her for the first time. I bet that was it. I just didn't think about it before.
 
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Wendy&Neko said:
With the older insulins, the recommendation was to feed just twice a day. The longer lasting depot insulins, like Lantus, you don't need to do that. In fact, like for human diabetics, multiple smaller meals is better. Just try to feed most of the carbs before nadir, when the insulin effect is stronger.
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Oh, I'll have to consider that in the future. I had no idea. My vet said twice a day and other websites I read said twice a day. I didn't realize that. She'll love having a midday snack.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Could you test again, been 45 minutes.
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Yes, I just did and it was 99. I've decided not to shoot her for tonight. I think the earlier 174 number was influenced by my brother being here learning how to check her BG for the first time. She got scared and tried to run away and he brought her back. She was fine with him later, but at that moment she was stressed, and I didn't think about it till just now.
 
A skip is fine as long as she doesn't have a history of ketones. Just pretend it was a fur shot. ;) In the spreadsheet, just mark it as "skip" or "NS" for no shot, so we know it was intended. It'll be interesting to see what she does overnight.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
A skip is fine as long as she doesn't have a history of ketones. Just pretend it was a fur shot. ;) In the spreadsheet, just mark it as "skip" or "NS" for no shot, so we know it was intended. It'll be interesting to see what she does overnight.
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Thanks. She does not have a history of ketones. The vet checked for that last time we were there about 2.5 weeks ago. I'll update as I take her BG.
 
Hi Chrissy, I'm a little confused by the dosing.

I'm sure when I looked in at your SS yesterday that you had been shooting 0,25u, now it says 0.15u? Is that a typo?? or have you taken her down a touch?

Also when is it that you are leaving for thanksgiving?
 
Gill & George said:
Hi Chrissy, I'm a little confused by the dosing.

I'm sure when I looked in at your SS yesterday that you had been shooting 0,25u, now it says 0.15u? Is that a typo?? or have you taken her down a touch?

Also when is it that you are leaving for thanksgiving?
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You're totally right. I'm sorry for any confusion. I'm confused myself. I had written in .25 and done a couple doses I think at that number, but I dropped it a bit so I could use one of the lines on the needle instead of just totally eyeballing it, and realized the number I'm using now couldn't be .25. I don't really know what it is. I feel like it's not a real measurement. It's the very first line that's like the base line in the U-100 needle. Does that make sense? I figured maybe that's .15 or .10, I don't really know, so I'm just calling it .15 right now.

We're leaving for Thanksgiving today, Monday, my neighbor is going to check her BG before dosing her, and my brother and friend are both going to check in on her and check BG. Also, we're cutting the trip a little shorter than initially planned and will be back Friday.

This morning her BG is 144. I'm testing again in a few minutes but thinking of skipping the dose again. Not sure yet. I keep reading in posts not to dose if under 200 but I think that's with a human meter. I still only have my Alpha Trak. I don't really think I can cut her dose any more at this point though. Seems like we've reached the lowest dose we can go. What dose would you say to skip at with an Alpha Track? I have this nagging feeling someone told me under 150. Maybe I'll go through my previous posts and check.
 
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Snickers and Chrissy said:
This morning her BG is 144. I'm testing again in a few minutes but thinking of skipping the dose again. Not sure yet. I keep reading in posts not to dose if under 200 but I think that's with a human meter. I still only have my Alpha Trak. I don't really think I can cut her dose any more at this point though. Seems like we've reached the lowest dose we can go. What dose would you say to skip at with an Alpha Track? I have this nagging feeling someone told me under 150. Maybe I'll go through my previous posts and check.
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There are no numbers other than the 68 being the take action number on TR for the alphatrak.
There aren't any conversions available, it's the reason both our dosing methods stipulate the use of human meters.

Sounds like you are dosing 0.1, from what you describe is this what you are doing?
01unit-1.jpg


As opposed to this/ which is 0.25u
025unit-1.jpg


When we go away we usually recommend taking the dose down, by 0.25u to the nearest on the dose line, so for example if a cat is on 1.25u we whould take them down to 1.00
If they were on 1.00u we would take them down to 0.5u.

I'm worried about a couple of things,
  • having your petsitter dose accurately such a small dose. If she ends up giving 0.5 instead of 0.1 which can be easily done by someone inexperienced with microdosing (you have already seen how difficult it is)
  • although your brother is testing I imagine he won't be testing as frequently/diligently as you have
  • You haven't got much data
I had a similar situation with my guy, he was on a micro dose, granted he was in all green numbers, but had not quite earned a reduction, even with my petsitter being very experienced, and she had looked after George in the past and was prepared to test amps/pmps and midcycle. I ended up not giving george insulin for a week, and getting my petsitter to just check BG. We made plans that should we see the BG she would shoot the micro dose.
In the end she didn't need to shoot, and I resumed the micro dose when I returned. George hasn't had Ketones and was eating well and not sick. It's important to consider these things when skipping dose in a diabetic cat, in a ketone/DKA prone cat it would risk another bout of DKA.

Snickers and Chrissy said:
We're leaving for Thanksgiving today, Monday, my neighbor is going to check her BG before dosing her,
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Have you given her a no shoot number?
For example the first time I left George with petsitter/friend/neighbour, I was prepared to shoot anything above 50 on the human meter as I was following TR, but I gave her a no shoot number of 150, take a look at the ss december 2015 I reduced down to 2.5u, he was pink all the while so we didn't have a problem with her not being able to shoot, on the return I went up to 3.00u, (he had been due an increase just before we left.

Also look at 21 Jan 2016
there I gave same petsitter a no shoot of 100. We kept intouch via messaging as well while I was away. You will note that I didn't take the dose down. He had just earned a reduction, and I didn't want to take him down to 1u, so we left his petsitter with the 1.5u on the line dose, and discussed the no shoot of 1u, and the possibility of her having to take him down to 1u for safety should the numbers have warranted it, George went to stay with her and she has had a diabetic cat so we both felt comfortable with this decision, and we had the data to support it.

So as you can see there's a lot to take into consideration.

I'm glad you shot this morning seemed a sensible choice, but the question is would you have felt comfortable with your neighbour shooting that low?
Have you given her your log in details? I did that with mine so that she would have access to folk here on the board if she needed help and couldn't get hold of me.


I
 
Is that the 0 mark? That's what I thought but wasn't sure. I've been shooting it with the plunger to the 0 mark. I know that sounds weird, but I tested it several times and putting it there I'm still getting insulin in. I squirted it onto a paper towel to check, and you can see it in there. Maybe I only think I'm at the 0 mark and making a mistake, in which case case I'd have to be shooting .1

I'm okay with the sitter dosing that low. She practiced with me and got it no problem. I told her not to shoot if under 150. You think I should make it higher? Like 170 or 200? Orey saying I should just skip doses altogether?

I will consider getting the human meter when I return. It's been less than 3 weeks and I just now am feeling comfortable with the Alpha Trak.
 
Snickers and Chrissy said:
Is that the 0 mark?
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yes it is the 0 mark, but you will still get some insulin in, with my syringes it was about 3 to 4 drops, I squeezed it out a drop at a time.
Snickers and Chrissy said:
I told her not to shoot if under 150.
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That seems reasonable.
What times will your DB be checking on Snicker's BG?

Snickers and Chrissy said:
I will consider getting the human meter when I return. It's been less than 3 weeks and I just now am feeling comfortable with the Alpha Trak.
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Yeah I hear it is nice to use.
I understand that the freestyle freedom lite is very similar (I have used that as a back up meter/ because the strips are expensive here in spain) and it's great. It's just that the protocol/dosing methods were developed using human meters (there weren't any pet meters being used back then) so with the discrepancies in numbers between them it makes it much harder to give good advice on how best to follow the dosing methods.

You'll just get a lot more out of the dosing methods/[protocols if you use the same type of instrument that was used to develop them in the first place.
 
Thanks so much for your help! I guess I'll stick with not dosing under 150.

My brother will be coming by in the evening only today and tomorrow, around 6pm. My official pet sitter/shooter/neighbor will be here around 4pm. Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday my brother will be here most of the afternoon, and my neighbor will be home all evening and said she can check in any time I want, otherwise the plan is for her to check BG and shoot around 4pm and 4am.

We will be back Friday night.

I guess when I get back I'll get the human meter and give it a try. I'll look at the one you suggested. Thanks. :)
 
It's good that you will be in touch with your neighbour and she can check on snickers.

With The +2 your brother will be able to tell if the cycle is going to be active, and if need be he can feed her some higher carb

I
 
Thanks. I adjusted my spreadsheet to say .1 now for those shots we talked about. When we get back, I'll try the full .1 or .25 again. And I'll look into that human meter. :)
 
Snickers and Chrissy said:
Thanks. I adjusted my spreadsheet to say .1 now for those shots we talked about. When we get back, I'll try the full .1 or .25 again. And I'll look into that human meter. :)
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Maybe get some readings with the human meter and the current dose before going up?

Hope you have fun, and don't worry to much.
 
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