Insulin dosage, I think kitty bounced

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smeggy

smeggy

Member Since 2013
Hello, I need some assistance figuring out what insulin dose my parent's kitty Little Boy should get tonight.

He was diagnosed in June and they have had trouble regulating him for months. I am trying to help my parents with this because they are overwhelmed and I have experience caring for a diabetic cat previously. Things are not going as smoothly with Little Boy as they did with my other kitty however. I'm struggling. I feel like I don't fully understand things like what a bounce looks like & how to interpret the data to make decisions on increases/decreases.

I think maybe he bounced back on 11/9? Maybe on 11/3 as well? I'm just not sure. I never had these types of #'s with my other sugar kitty so this is really confusing me.

He is on 5 units of glargine currently. I gave him 4.5 at 9am this morning because he was low preshot (116). In the past whenever we skipped a shot his #'s spike way up. So I didn't want to do that. I was afraid 4.5 might still be too much and we might get a hypo event or bounce, but we have been checking him every hour and he seems to be holding steady. He doesn't always seem to respond to his insulin shots, but when he does it usually kicks in around 3 hours. It's 4 hours post shot right now and he is at 133.


Here is his spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lfAyCpPEfL4zgXCfJE95RP0oS-92P0#gid=1526124902


I've never posted on here before so I apologize if I did anything incorrectly. I have to go to work soon and won't be able to get online until much later tonight so I was rushing to post this.

Any help is much appreciated!

Meghan
 
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smeggy said:
I have to go to work soon and won't be able to get online until much later tonight so I was rushing to post this.
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I'm not great at reading patterns on spreadsheets so will leave the bounce question for others.

Little Boy is having a very flat cycle. Can you get another test as you run out the door? He is in perfectly safe numbers but since you are not going to be home, can you leave some food out for him?
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
I'm not great at reading patterns on spreadsheets so will leave the bounce question for others.

Little Boy is having a very flat cycle. Can you get another test as you run out the door? He is in perfectly safe numbers but since you are not going to be home, can you leave some food out for him?
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Yes I don't leave for another hour so we will check him again at 2pm. My mom will be home today so he'll be ok while i'm gone. I told her to check on him every hour, and more frequently if he gets looks like he is getting low. We have gravy lovers food & karo syrup in case he is heading towards a hypo event.
 
I posted in one of the feline diabetes facebook groups earlier and was told to get him checked for acromegaly & IAA so we will be doing that. He also has a couple bad teeth that need to come out, so maybe that has something to do with his #'s. We are scheduling for that as well.

I am still confused on what to do dosing wise for tonight though. So I figured i'd post here and see if someone can help.
 
I doubt there will be a problem today. He's spending a lot of hours in numbers his body is not used to which may lead to a bounce.

smeggy said:
I posted in one of the feline diabetes facebook groups earlier and was told to get him checked for acromegaly & IAA so we will be doing that. He also has a couple bad teeth that need to come out, so maybe that has something to do with his #'s.
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Dentals can make a big difference.
Tagging
@Wendy&Neko
who has experience with acro and IAA for you.
 
smeggy said:
Here is his spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lfAyCpPEfL4zgXCfJE95RP0oS-92P0#gid=1526124902


I've never posted on here before so I apologize if I did anything incorrectly.
Click to expand...
Are you using the Facebook spreadsheet? Most computers have problems reading the Facebook spreadsheet properly. You may be asked to start using the spreadsheet associated with this forum. The two spreadsheets look very similar but the Facebook one has a bug in it or something.

A signature is also good for anyone who needs to see the information at a glance. It saves time not having to scroll up or look through old posts.

 
I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you what to dose tonight based on how the cycle last night went and how today is going. He's having a very nice cycle today despite the lower dose this AM and it appears that he probably went lower than you are aware of last night given that lower AMPS today but how low is anyone's guess.

I suggest when you get home you test and post for assistance then. Little Boy may bounce to higher numbers as he's lower than he's used to today. It t may be that 5u is just right or it could be a wee bit too much. Hard to say based on the data you have. You're doing great getting tests but sometimes they surprise us and get frisky when we aren't looking.

If your Mom can test Little Boy, I'd suggest checking him sometime this afternoon to see where he's headed and ensure he isn't dropping too low.

When you get home tonight, perhaps we can get you to set up a signature and read through the Lantus/Levemir stickies to help you decide what dosing method you'd prefer to follow. If Little Boy is eating any dry food you would need to follow SLGS (Start Low and Go Slow). This doesn't mean you would start over at a low dose but rather that you would do dose reductions and increases according to that method. You are testing enough to do TR if that is your preference and Little Boy is on a wet low carb diet.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Are you using the Facebook spreadsheet? Most computers have problems reading the Facebook spreadsheet properly. You may be asked to start using the spreadsheet associated with this forum. The two spreadsheets look very similar but the Facebook one has a bug in it or something.

A signature is also good for anyone who needs to see the information at a glance. It saves time not having to scroll up or look through old posts.

Click to expand...
I'm so sorry I just saw this response from you. I don't know why I didn't see it earlier. Is this site in real time or do I need to keep refreshing the screen?


The spreadsheet might be from the facebook group but i'm not entirely certain. I thought they were basically the same. At one point I had both. I chose one to use and deleted the other. I honestly don't know which one I am using.

I will have to fill in my profile/signature info and copy data into the new spreadsheet later tonight, after work. If I can't get it done in time for advice on what to do before his next shot we'll just wing it I suppose.
 
You don't have to get the signature/SS stuff done to post tonight for advice. We can still help but want to get you set up so everything goes smoothly here. I can see your spreadsheet but apparently with the hijacked sheets some folks can't. The signature likewise isn't critical as all that info is on the SS. It's more a matter of making that info readily available so we don't keep asking the same questions over and over and driving you crazy.

The board is real time but if you are idle for a few minutes it may not show alerts until you refresh the screen. If you had signed out and signed back in, the alert would have appeared.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I wouldn't feel comfortable telling you what to dose tonight based on how the cycle last night went and how today is going. He's having a very nice cycle today despite the lower dose this AM and it appears that he probably went lower than you are aware of last night given that lower AMPS today but how low is anyone's guess.

I suggest when you get home you test and post for assistance then. Little Boy may bounce to higher numbers as he's lower than he's used to today. It t may be that 5u is just right or it could be a wee bit too much. Hard to say based on the data you have. You're doing great getting tests but sometimes they surprise us and get frisky when we aren't looking.

If your Mom can test Little Boy, I'd suggest checking him sometime this afternoon to see where he's headed and ensure he isn't dropping too low.

When you get home tonight, perhaps we can get you to set up a signature and read through the Lantus/Levemir stickies to help you decide what dosing method you'd prefer to follow. If Little Boy is eating any dry food you would need to follow SLGS (Start Low and Go Slow). This doesn't mean you would start over at a low dose but rather that you would do dose reductions and increases according to that method. You are testing enough to do TR if that is your preference and Little Boy is on a wet low carb diet.
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Thank you so much! I will post later after work when we have more data. My mom is going to check him a couple times while i'm gone.

There are seven cats in the house and they are free fed. So there is always food available and he grazes all day. He is always hungry. We switched him to lower carb food back in June when he was diagnosed. We use fancy feast (pate & chunky mostly, sometimes flaked) and occasionally friskies pate.

I recently started buying Dr. Elsey dry chicken kibble for the other cats which is low carb . They were very upset when we took the friskies crunchies away but thankfully they like the Dr. Elsey. It gets left out on the counter, out Little Boy's reach (He can't jump due to neuropathy in his hind legs). He does sometimes get a small bit of the Dr. Elsey dry sprinkled on his wet food w/a couple spoonfuls of water mixed in. I never noticed a change in his #'s when he ate a little so I think it's ok, but we can stop giving it to him if you think that is better. He also likes freeze dried chicken treats so we can just give him that.

I'll set up the signature and look through the Lantus information tonight after work. I've read through the protocols before and I think the SLGS was the one that looked good to me. I'll look at them again tonight but I know i'll likely need help. It's all a bit confusing to me.


Meghan
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
You don't have to get the signature/SS stuff done to post tonight for advice. We can still help but want to get you set up so everything goes smoothly here. I can see your spreadsheet but apparently with the hijacked sheets some folks can't. The signature likewise isn't critical as all that info is on the SS. It's more a matter of making that info readily available so we don't keep asking the same questions over and over and driving you crazy.

The board is real time but if you are idle for a few minutes it may not show alerts until you refresh the screen. If you had signed out and signed back in, the alert would have appeared.
Click to expand...

Ah ok, thanks for explaining. I can certainly switch to FDMB spreadsheet but it might take me some time to copy all the data over. I'm going to try to get the signature done tonight.
 
The spreadsheet is exploding on my iPad, so yes, you must be using the FB one with the bug in it. Creating a working spreadsheet is the most important thing. Start with entering just the last couple weeks of data. You might even be able to copy and paste the data, which won’t take long. I will check on my computer and see if I have better luck there. I cannot comment on dose without data.

On what basis did the FB group think you needed to get your cat tested for IAA and acromegaly? One in four diabetic cats has acromegaly, but usually there are some indications. I agree with above that you should prioritize his dental, so many cats numbers improve if bad teeth are taken care of.
 
The Facebook group that's associated with the FDMB is the Feline Diabetes Group and we use the correct spreadsheet, not the one pirated by the FDSG.

The spreadsheet you're using is the one from the Feline Diabetes Support Group on Facebook. Most of their Admins learned what they know from the FDMB and then started their own group on FB and for some reason, won't even recommend us anymore.

The FDMB has been around since 1996 (before Facebook!) so there's lots of experience here to learn from. Mixing the two groups will only confuse you and could be harmful for your "extra sweet" Little Boy! When you're new to the world of feline diabetes, getting conflicting advice can be dangerous.

If you'd like, @Marje and Gracie can quickly start you a new spreadsheet and move your numbers from the current one to the one that works here. Just click on her name and choose "start a conversation" so she can gain access to your current one.
 
@smeggy

I’ve been out of town but I can transfer your data to our SS in the blink of an eye so you don’t have to copy it all. Please send me a private message by clicking on “Marje and Gracie” to the left and then “start a conversation”. Thank you.
 
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