What food is best and easily available in Canada?

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Judy and Freckles

Judy and Freckles

Member Since 2019
Hi All,

New to the forum but I found Dr. Lisa's food list already. I see the Fancy Feast Classic seems to be the food of choice but in Canada, we don't have the "Classic" part. Is Fancy Feast Classic the same as Fancy Feast Pate?

I've crunched a few numbers using Dr. Lisa's formula but being a newbie to the whole feline diabetes thing, I want to make sure I get it right as I'm aiming for remission! :)

Thanks in advance!
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Fancy Feast Classic is Fancy Feast Pate in Canada.
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Thank's for the clarification Red & Rover. Is Fancy Feast Pate the food that most Canadians are using? I just completed my first blood glucose curve today and blood glucose numbers did not get below 23 (highest was 26.6 I'm thinking that was a food spike as this reading was 2 hours after insulin injection. I'm currently using 2.5 units (U-100) of Lantus (glargine).
 
Most likely the 26.6 (478) is a food spike.

Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates. Some people generate towards the Weruva. It's more expensive. It all boils down to whatever the cat will eat.

Lantus. Available at any pharmacy. Humans requiring insulin need a prescription. Cats do not. Just say it is for your cat. (My vet marked up Lantus. It was my pharmacist that put me right.)

Strips. While Lantus is cheap in Canada, strips are not. AlphaTrak strips are crazy expensive. Human meter strips are less, but still expensive. The FreeStyle Lite is a human meter that many people use. Strips run about $0.80. You will go through more strips than you think. A lot more. For human strips, wait for Seniors' Day at Shoppers Drug Mart. Get a senior to go in and use your PCOptimum card points to pare down the cost.

Housekeeping. Can you add what time zone you are in to your signature? We have members here from all over the world and it helps to be able to judge the right time, especially at night. Also, when you do the food change, you will have to change your signature. Also, if you have been feeding the dry, and drop the carbs suddenly, you will see a drop in numbers of up to 100. It is best to cut out the dry food on a day when you will be home to get some tests in, especially mid-cycle tests. Lantus is based on the nadir (the lowest number) of the cycle and not on the preshot numbers.

2.5 units is a big dose for only 6 weeks in. Can you give a bit of history on that? It is generally recommended to increase in 0.25 unit increments so that you do not go right past the correct dose. I'll let other, more experienced with dosing people weigh in on this.

Looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet. If you need any help, just ask. There are a few spreadsheet gurus here who can set it up for you in minutes.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Most likely the 26.6 (478) is a food spike.

Fancy Feast pates and Friskies pates. Some people generate towards the Weruva. It's more expensive. It all boils down to whatever the cat will eat.

Lantus. Available at any pharmacy. Humans requiring insulin need a prescription. Cats do not. Just say it is for your cat. (My vet marked up Lantus. It was my pharmacist that put me right.)

Strips. While Lantus is cheap in Canada, strips are not. AlphaTrak strips are crazy expensive. Human meter strips are less, but still expensive. The FreeStyle Lite is a human meter that many people use. Strips run about $0.80. You will go through more strips than you think. A lot more. For human strips, wait for Seniors' Day at Shoppers Drug Mart. Get a senior to go in and use your PCOptimum card points to pare down the cost.

Housekeeping. Can you add what time zone you are in to your signature? We have members here from all over the world and it helps to be able to judge the right time, especially at night. Also, when you do the food change, you will have to change your signature. Also, if you have been feeding the dry, and drop the carbs suddenly, you will see a drop in numbers of up to 100. It is best to cut out the dry food on a day when you will be home to get some tests in, especially mid-cycle tests. Lantus is based on the nadir (the lowest number) of the cycle and not on the preshot numbers.

2.5 units is a big dose for only 6 weeks in. Can you give a bit of history on that? It is generally recommended to increase in 0.25 unit increments so that you do not go right past the correct dose. I'll let other, more experienced with dosing people weigh in on this.

Looking forward to seeing your spreadsheet. If you need any help, just ask. There are a few spreadsheet gurus here who can set it up for you in minutes.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your quick reply. My vet gave me a prescription and I got the Lantus right from the pharmacy. I was getting contrasting information regarding the kind of glucometer to get. Some 'experts' say that human glucometers aren't as precise for felines. My vet has an Alphatrak as well so that's why I opted to go with that. Vet says I would only need to test periodically (every month or so). I was concerned with testing so infrequent because if Freckles is heading towards remission, I want to know.

I'm in Central Standard time. That should be in my signature line now. Thanks for the tip. I will hold gradually drop off the dry food. I think the vet made an error in the amount of food Freckles should get anyways. She is 9lbs and gets 3 - 85 gm cans per day AND 1/2 cup dry. When I looked at Royal Canins website it was wet OR dry (so in essence, she is getting twice the amount of food she should be?).

We started off with 1 unit of u-40 porcine insulin. After a 2-3 days and me researching, I went back to vet and they had me use 1 unit of u-100 Lantus. I could barely see the line on the syringe. On Oct. 9 Freckles stayed the day at the vets and they did a glucose curve. That's when they upped the insulin to 2.5 units of Lantus and once again changed the syringes to 3/10 cc, u-100 (from Carepoint VET) - at least now I can see the line on the syringe. From what I understand 1 unit of U-40 is the same as 2.5 units of U-100 insulin?

I think I have the spreadsheet updated. I have to take another reading in about 20 minutes, feed and give insulin. I will post those results as well.

BTW this forum is great. It's nice to talk to people who are actually dealing with and being successful with feline diabetes. Vets are great but they can't be experts on everything.

Thanks!
 
Wow, that's a hefty increase. And far too much of an increase.
Tagging @Bobbie And Bubba @MrWorfMen's Mom @Marje and Gracie to look at the dose. They will be able to see better in a few days when there are more numbers on the spreadsheet.


Syringes.
Scroll down to post #4
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/shooting-100insulin-in-u40-syringe.24559/#p245778

It is not recommended to use U40 syringes with a U100 insulin. The quick way to distinguish: U40 has a red cap. U100 has an orange cap. Put the U40 syringes in the back of the cupboard and forget about them. Or list them in the Supply Closet.
There have been some terrifying times when a cat was given the wrong amount of insulin.

Some people use magnifying reading glass from the dollar store to measure with the U100 syringes. A few have used a jeweller's headband and light (amazon). Some people use calipers to ensure the proper dose. These come in handy when it comes to micro-dosing.

Vets get little schooling in diabetes. Think hours. And that covers all animals. The people here have lived feline diabetes 24/7 and have done the research. Also, it is a peer reviewed forum so there can be plenty of discussion at times.
 
Hi there. Yes, you want U100 syringes for Lantus. Get rid of the U40 and only use U 100 so there won’t be any accidental overdoses.



As soon as you can get some data onto the SS , we can help you with dosing better.

I agree that jumping up to 2.5 is way to much. Your kitty is only 9 lbs. if it were me, I’d take her back to 1 unit and get as many test in as you can. We increase and decrease in increments of .25 of a unit so you don’t go over the best dose. Sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough because of bouncing.

You don’t need to take her to the vet to do a curve. Do them at home testing every 3 hours for 18 hours. The reason: when kitties are at the vets they are very stressed out making their BG numbers soar ! Then the vet uses that inflated number to recommend an increase and in this case a way too big of one.

The protocol and method we use here are written for using human meters. A lot of us use them because of the protocol and because the strips are so much cheaper. You can certainly use the AT2 if you want , just understand that the reduction point you use is 68.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi there. Yes, you want U100 syringes for Lantus. Get rid of the U40 and only use U 100 so there won’t be any accidental overdoses.



As soon as you can get some data onto the SS , we can help you with dosing better.

I agree that jumping up to 2.5 is way to much. Your kitty is only 9 lbs. if it were me, I’d take her back to 1 unit and get as many test in as you can. We increase and decrease in increments of .25 of a unit so you don’t go over the best dose. Sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough because of bouncing.

You don’t need to take her to the vet to do a curve. Do them at home testing every 3 hours for 18 hours. The reason: when kitties are at the vets they are very stressed out making their BG numbers soar ! Then the vet uses that inflated number to recommend an increase and in this case a way too big of one.

The protocol and method we use here are written for using human meters. A lot of us use them because of the protocol and because the strips are so much cheaper. You can certainly use the AT2 if you want , just understand that the reduction point you use is 68.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks again for your speedy replies. I took the U-40 syringes back to the vet's last week so they are already out of the house. The syringes I have now are much easier to see since the syringe is skinnier making the graduations further apart. There aren't .25 or .5 graduations on the syringe though so how do you increase/decrease by .25 - just eyeballing it?

I did my first curve today and her numbers were very high (414-478 - my glucometer reads 23 for example but I multiply by 18 to get this different number correct?). I wonder if the food I'm feeding her is still too high in carbs? She's eating 3 (85 gm) cans of Royal Canin diabetic wet and 1/2 cup Royal Canin diabetic dry (as prescribed by the vet who he himself is diabetic) - trying to get info on the Royal Canin is like pulling teeth though.

Her appetite is voracious though. She actually stole a piece of toast out of the toaster last week and ate 1/4 of it. Food left out on the counter or table even for a few seconds is not safe.

I live an hour away from the city and where I work so testing her during the workday would be tricky - her travelling in the car will stress her out too. Is waiting until next weekend to do another curve not a good idea? I want to do what's best for her though.

Can you explain what "the reduction point is 68" means please?

Thanks again!
 
JAP said:
Thanks again for your speedy replies. I took the U-40 syringes back to the vet's last week so they are already out of the house. The syringes I have now are much easier to see since the syringe is skinnier making the graduations further apart. There aren't .25 or .5 graduations on the syringe though so how do you increase/decrease by .25 - just eyeballing it?

I did my first curve today and her numbers were very high (414-478 - my glucometer reads 23 for example but I multiply by 18 to get this different number correct?). I wonder if the food I'm feeding her is still too high in carbs? She's eating 3 (85 gm) cans of Royal Canin diabetic wet and 1/2 cup Royal Canin diabetic dry (as prescribed by the vet who he himself is diabetic) - trying to get info on the Royal Canin is like pulling teeth though.

Her appetite is voracious though. She actually stole a piece of toast out of the toaster last week and ate 1/4 of it. Food left out on the counter or table even for a few seconds is not safe.

I live an hour away from the city and where I work so testing her during the workday would be tricky - her travelling in the car will stress her out too. Is waiting until next weekend to do another curve not a good idea? I want to do what's best for her though.

Can you explain what "the reduction point is 68" means please?

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
You should be able to buy syringes in Canada with 0.5u markings. I know BD makes them and several of our Canadian members use BD. Without seeing a SS, it’s hard to know what dose she needs but I do agree such a huge jump is not something we would recommend. There are times that cats are “bouncing” meaning they’ve dropped lower and the liver releases counterregulatory hormones which cause the BG to spike up. If a curve is done on those days, it will look like an increase is needed. However, we know how to spot those bounces and when you should hold the dose.

The “reduction point is 68” means that if, on a pet meter, you get a 68 (that’s a US number) or lower, you need to reduce the dose by 0.25u, generally.

Two housekeeping items, if you don’t mind.

One is your SS only has World values and it looks like you (or someone) deleted the US tab and the lab tab. You need them both especially the US tab. The way the World SS works is you enter your values in mmol/L on the World SS and it converts it to what we use in the US which is mg/dL and puts it automatically on the US SS.

Second, your link to the SS in the signature block is incorrect. It should end in pubhtml. For help with the SS, getting the US and lab tabs back and also getting the link correct, please send me a private message and I’ll fix them both for you. I can add the tabs you are missing really fast so you don’t have to redo the SS. To send me a private message, click on “Marje and Gracie” to the left and then “start a conversation”.

Welcome to the FDMB!
 
JAP said:
The syringes I have now are much easier to see since the syringe is skinnier making the graduations further apart. There aren't .25 or .5 graduations on the syringe though so how do you increase/decrease by .25 - just eyeballing it?
Click to expand...
BD Ultrafine makes a syringe with half unit markings. It has purple and yellow on the box. The pharmacy may claim not to have half unit syringes. Make them look. One of our members found the cheapest place to buy them was Safeway.

I believe this is the one.
BD_320440__64513.1520533063.jpg
 
President's choice Extra meaty is fine but different size cans apparently can have slightly different analysis. HERE is the list with that information.
 
Rawz Turkey and Chicken are low carb. I found them at Global Pet Foods. They actually were willing to order in the cases for me.

I started Jones out on the Fancy feast until his IBD really kicked in.

Costco is the cheapest on Insulin. Can get 5 pens for $95 and that will last you a year or more. Make sure to get the furthest out expiry date you can. You don't need a membership to go to the pharmacy. You don't need a prescription either in Canada. Just let them know it is for your cat. I brought in a used pen to show them.
I asked at the pharmacy to get the insulin needles with the half unit markings and they were more than willing to order them in for me. I was also able to get free lancets with my strips. I just used my local Co-op pharmacy for ease of getting Jones' supplies with groceries.
 
JAP said:
Is Fancy Feast Pate the food that most Canadians are using?
Click to expand...
I never touched the stuff. There are plenty of other low carb options available in Canada, both canned and raw. The Canadian food chart is quite out of date. Canada Fresh also has low carb canned food options. A majority of the under 10% carb foods listed on this food chart are available in Canada. I and my kitties were fans of raw food.

Shop around for insulin, lancets, syringes, etc. In BC. I found Safeway pharmacy the low cost option, even over Costco. My pharmacist knew more than my vet about Lantus for cats, she had more diabetic kitty clients.
 
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Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hi there. Yes, you want U100 syringes for Lantus. Get rid of the U40 and only use U 100 so there won’t be any accidental overdoses.



As soon as you can get some data onto the SS , we can help you with dosing better.

I agree that jumping up to 2.5 is way to much. Your kitty is only 9 lbs. if it were me, I’d take her back to 1 unit and get as many test in as you can. We increase and decrease in increments of .25 of a unit so you don’t go over the best dose. Sometimes too much insulin can look like not enough because of bouncing.

You don’t need to take her to the vet to do a curve. Do them at home testing every 3 hours for 18 hours. The reason: when kitties are at the vets they are very stressed out making their BG numbers soar ! Then the vet uses that inflated number to recommend an increase and in this case a way too big of one.

The protocol and method we use here are written for using human meters. A lot of us use them because of the protocol and because the strips are so much cheaper. You can certainly use the AT2 if you want , just understand that the reduction point you use is 68.
Click to expand...

Hi Bobbie. I'm in the process of completing a second curve today. Numbers are posted on the spreadsheet. I reduced Freckles to 1.5 today. No dry kibble at all anymore but numbers are still high. I also posted in the the Lantus forum. I'm not really sure where to post information or questions? I'm at work for 12 hours during the workweek but can usually get another read 2 hours after the last injection in the evening. How many readings is optimal to figure out doseage? Would you mind having another look at Freckles' spreadsheet? Thanks in advance!

Judy
 
Since today is the first day on 1.5 units, the 2.5 unit depot is still in play and influencing today’s cycle. The larger depot influences 4-6 cycles after a reduction. Meaning today’s curve isn’t really telling you what this dose can do.

A +2 test at night can still give you a clue what is going to happen in that cycle. If it is quite a bit lower, that will be a cycle with a lot of action, requiring more monitoring, or leaving out lots of food for him to eat to keep himself safe.

You will probably get more help on dose in the Lantus specific forum.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Since today is the first day on 1.5 units, the 2.5 unit depot is still in play and influencing today’s cycle. The larger depot influences 4-6 cycles after a reduction. Meaning today’s curve isn’t really telling you what this dose can do.

A +2 test at night can still give you a clue what is going to happen in that cycle. If it is quite a bit lower, that will be a cycle with a lot of action, requiring more monitoring, or leaving out lots of food for him to eat to keep himself safe.

You will probably get more help on dose in the Lantus specific forum.
Click to expand...


Thank you Wendy. Just to clarify, 12 hours is a cycle right?
There's no problem with getting Freckles to eat. She's even stolen toast out of the toaster once, always on the counters, opening up cupboards etc. I've had to put baby locks on the garbage and dog food containers. Sheeesh!
 
Yes, a cycle is the time between shots.

I found the microwave is a good kitty proof storage device. :rolleyes:
 
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