9/28 Elmo AMPS HI , PMPS 383,+1 381,+2 338 +3 221,+4 204,+5 155 , +6 154,+7 119,+8 87, +9. 89
- Thread starter Beth 73
- Start date
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
I would hold at 0.75U. His depot is wacky due to the no shots. Until you can shoot 6 cycles at 0.75U you don't know what he can do on that dose.
Good morning
Good morning
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Good morning, LizzieI would hold at 0.75U. His depot is wacky due to the no shots. Until you can shoot 6 cycles at 0.75U you don't know what he can do on that dose.
Good morning
Yep, he has no where to go but down.....SLOWLY ....gave different food cos turning up his nose at Holistic Select ...gave Weruva Paw Lickin Chicken 3c/196 phos.....ate it well overnight ....still seeing a few hummy stragglers headed for Houston and you ,Lizzie
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Sonia & Leo
Member Since 2018
Good morning Beth and Elmo!
Hope you have a wonderful day, and Elmo heads back to the lagoon soon!
Hope you have a wonderful day, and Elmo heads back to the lagoon soon!
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Jamie, after his deep , swift dives in PM cycle I was advised by experienced folks to take him down to .75 in attempt to slow these dives down . We shall see as Elmo continues to be his own special case study
See PM condo from 9/25 to morning 9/26.....
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Reducing the dose isn’t the way to stop the dives. Getting him used to lower numbers so he doesn’t bounce and have a long way to drop, not skipping shots, and using food to manage the curve are how you slow the dives. Plus being careful how many carbs you give after nadir, which reduces duration and gives higher preshots. Taking reductions early just means he stays higher, and doesn’t get used to normal numbers.
Having said all that, you’ve got a couple cycles of 0.75 units in there. Get to six cycles and then see if you need to increase. Getting some insulin in him to build the depot is better than a higher dose and skipping shots.
Having said all that, you’ve got a couple cycles of 0.75 units in there. Get to six cycles and then see if you need to increase. Getting some insulin in him to build the depot is better than a higher dose and skipping shots.
Suzanne Burton
Member Since 2019
Good morning Beth and Elmo. It looks like our boys are letting us get a bit of well-deserved sleep. I hope Elmo gets his appetite in full gear so you can see what the 0.75U is going to do. Hope you have a blessed day.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
T
His appy is great today so that's good news !!! Praying you find LTs " sweet spot" that works for him with minimal effort on you and DHs part . My DH is such a help too ...very supportive which means the world from a guy who swore he'd never have indoor cats
Thanks, Suzanne
His appy is great today so that's good news !!! Praying you find LTs " sweet spot" that works for him with minimal effort on you and DHs part . My DH is such a help too ...very supportive which means the world from a guy who swore he'd never have indoor cats 
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Elmo, what are you doing today?
I'm glad he's eating and otherwise doing well today, but c'mon dude, those numbers!
Btw, you have "PMPS" in your subject
.
I'm glad he's eating and otherwise doing well today, but c'mon dude, those numbers!
Btw, you have "PMPS" in your subject
.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Elmo, what are you doing today?
I'm glad he's eating and otherwise doing well today, but c'mon dude, those numbers!
Btw, you have "PMPS" in your subject
Penelope and Mačka
Member Since 2019
Yes, it looks like you have to start shooting low and monitor, but you already do that anyway! It's scary, but he needs his insulin.
Bellasmom
Member Since 2018
Ok thanks, I was just wondering, I hope the decrease worksJamie, after his deep , swift dives in PM cycle I was advised by experienced folks to take him down to .75 in attempt to slow these dives down . We shall see as Elmo continues to be his own special case study
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
May I ask who these experienced folks were that advised that you reduce the dose to control the dives? I was told because Luci is also a diver - big time (Look at her SS for her big dives)...that I was to 'feed the curve'...to try to avoid the drops - never to change or skip the dose. I'm just wondering if perhaps you misunderstood????
It's really looking to me like he's not getting enough insulin ... and will need an increase soon.
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Hi Sue--
The motivation for the skips isn't so much a theory of "less insulin to stop the dives," it's more trying to back off a bit so that Caregiver Beth can manage the dives without sacrificing her own health. Elmo has had a pattern of going from high numbers down to greens-- good greens! dark greens! but still...-- during the nighttime, during which he requires steady administration of carbs to stay away from sharks. His spreadsheet looks good during those times, but it hides a lot of work and sacrifice of sleep. The skips have generally come at times when Elmo is looking good, maybe even ready for an experiment in shooting low, but Beth is exhausted, and it's not worth the risk to shoot then. Hopefully soon he'll give another low pre-shot on a day when it's feasible to shoot. Wendy also had a suggestion of trying at least a partial dose on rough days after an all-nighter, rather than a full skip, and I think that's a good idea.
The other thing is, we've been hoping that at some point, these skips messing with the depot will disrupt Elmo's patterns enough that he might start acting up during the daytime for a change, which would be much easier to deal with! Among other things, the board is often very quiet these days during US nighttime-- @Bron and Sheba (GA) has been doing yeoman's work during these times, but it's hard to ask her to be on-call every night (her day) in case of an emergency.
So, with all of this, several of us have advised backing off a bit on dose. Elmo is definitely showing some positive signs of getting used to good numbers, spending more time there. Personally, I'm pretty confident that "shoot low to stay low" is going to work like a charm for him in the near future, it's just a matter of getting him to do it on days when monitoring is easy, as least for the first few times!
The motivation for the skips isn't so much a theory of "less insulin to stop the dives," it's more trying to back off a bit so that Caregiver Beth can manage the dives without sacrificing her own health. Elmo has had a pattern of going from high numbers down to greens-- good greens! dark greens! but still...-- during the nighttime, during which he requires steady administration of carbs to stay away from sharks. His spreadsheet looks good during those times, but it hides a lot of work and sacrifice of sleep. The skips have generally come at times when Elmo is looking good, maybe even ready for an experiment in shooting low, but Beth is exhausted, and it's not worth the risk to shoot then. Hopefully soon he'll give another low pre-shot on a day when it's feasible to shoot. Wendy also had a suggestion of trying at least a partial dose on rough days after an all-nighter, rather than a full skip, and I think that's a good idea.
The other thing is, we've been hoping that at some point, these skips messing with the depot will disrupt Elmo's patterns enough that he might start acting up during the daytime for a change, which would be much easier to deal with! Among other things, the board is often very quiet these days during US nighttime-- @Bron and Sheba (GA) has been doing yeoman's work during these times, but it's hard to ask her to be on-call every night (her day) in case of an emergency.
So, with all of this, several of us have advised backing off a bit on dose. Elmo is definitely showing some positive signs of getting used to good numbers, spending more time there. Personally, I'm pretty confident that "shoot low to stay low" is going to work like a charm for him in the near future, it's just a matter of getting him to do it on days when monitoring is easy, as least for the first few times!
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Also, with respect to "feeding the curve"-- yep, Elmo's been getting both LC and MC early in the curve on cycles when he's starting to drop, but he doesn't appear to be very carb-sensitive, and again, it's been pretty labor-intensive. It's probably saved him from the sharks a few times, at least, but he usually still bounces high afterwards anyway, starting the cycle again.
Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
Hi Amber - I suppose only time will tell. I remember the exhaustion well...we've all been there. Let's hope that he does improve in the future...in the meantime the high numbers certainly aren't good for Elmo...and since this isn't his first rodeo it may take a herculean effort to get him back into good numbers...which in this last month hasn't been happening...
I'm in full agreement that 'shoot low to say low' needs to be applied - even if it's a token dose - but skipping doses is just extending the issues with his organs...and his deprivation of nutrition which we all know just leads to a more difficult road for healing.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
I will add since this is our second time thru this ( first time on vetsulin) that Elmo did not back then or is he now a typical cat on insulin. He is in need of tweeks that would otherwise not be used with the average cat. Added to this are some family situations I’ve been dealing with that necessitate I get some sleep to deal with.... I am currently filling the role of family matriarch on my side as well as co matriarch on my DH. While I will always do what is best for sweet Elmo I also have other great family demands that I must balance out with. And yes, I owe Bron @Bron and Sheba (GA) a huge debt of gratitude ...she has stayed with us for hours not once but TWICE, sacrificing her day for my night. I trust her ,and those who have been with us ,implicitly but am open to hearing other opinions . After all, we all are here for the betterment of our kitties and our own health as well 
Thankful beyond words for the love, time, experienced help that has and will continue to undergird us as we do this Elmo’s way
Thankful beyond words for the love, time, experienced help that has and will continue to undergird us as we do this Elmo’s way
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Sue and Luci
Member Since 2017
I appreciate that - we all have multiple issues that we have to deal with on a daily basis...demanding jobs, elderly parents, illnesses, surgeries, financial obstacles...just to name a few...we're all doing the best we can...and if you look at any SS...you'll see the same pattern develop...lots of late nights...yes, the dreaded late night up/down, check, nap, up/down again...and sleep deprived people the next day having to pick up where they left off with the (see above list).....just to name a few...
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Added to the above is the fact that in the middle of all this we had to have our sweet civvie Chris put to sleep. It has been a hard, long week that I shared with a few because it was too difficult at that time to share with all. So , loss of 16 year old dear kitty on top of several nights of NO sleep has necessitated tweaks.That added to Elmo's almost unstoppable diving . If anyone cares to read thru these all nighter condos you will see Elmo is not carb sensitive and it takes intense effort to keep him steady .....he literally dives, not slides and at times almost cannot be stopped. Please feel free to check out the alll nighter condos to see what it has taken to keep him from hypo....and the nearest emergency vet is 45 minutes away so the buck stops right here with me and those so gracious to give of their time to help us thru this. I am indebted to each and every name you will see on those marathon condos.
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Sorry to hear about civvie Chris.
Neko once did a streak of three months diving at night (and earning reductions) and bouncing during the day. I tried everything, and I do mean everything, to try to change the pattern. I was exhausted. Nothing worked, though eventually switching to Lev made it easier on me cause she was more flat and predictable. Back on Lantus with the night time drops and late nadirs, I carbed her up her up pretty heavy, so I could at least get a three hour nap between tests. It is better to preserve the depot and run them a little higher with carbs, than to skip. Nothing wrong with using Karo and/or 20+% carbs food for that purpose. You can’t continue testing every hour every night.
I am hoping by shooting at least some insulin, when there is a good chance he’ll bounce, you will gather the data and confidence to eventually shoot full dose.
Neko once did a streak of three months diving at night (and earning reductions) and bouncing during the day. I tried everything, and I do mean everything, to try to change the pattern. I was exhausted. Nothing worked, though eventually switching to Lev made it easier on me cause she was more flat and predictable. Back on Lantus with the night time drops and late nadirs, I carbed her up her up pretty heavy, so I could at least get a three hour nap between tests. It is better to preserve the depot and run them a little higher with carbs, than to skip. Nothing wrong with using Karo and/or 20+% carbs food for that purpose. You can’t continue testing every hour every night.
I am hoping by shooting at least some insulin, when there is a good chance he’ll bounce, you will gather the data and confidence to eventually shoot full dose.
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
@Bellasmom @Sue and Luci @Wendy&Neko
I just wanted to clarify I was the one who suggested reducing the dose, not to stop the diving but because Beth had skipped 3 doses in 4 days, which I said at the time.
I thought it was better to reduce the dose to see if she was able to shoot both cycles at 0.75 instead of having to skip and hopefully break the cycle of having a low cycle and Preshot, then a high cycle after skipping. And hopefully this would also stabilise the depot.
I just wanted to clarify I was the one who suggested reducing the dose, not to stop the diving but because Beth had skipped 3 doses in 4 days, which I said at the time.
I thought it was better to reduce the dose to see if she was able to shoot both cycles at 0.75 instead of having to skip and hopefully break the cycle of having a low cycle and Preshot, then a high cycle after skipping. And hopefully this would also stabilise the depot.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Bron, there are not words to thank you for all your advice, wisdom, tons of time spent with Elmo and I . When I would see you come on the Board in the middle of the night ( your day) I knew the Cavalry had arrived And knew I was not alone . You are awesome @Bron and Sheba (GA)
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Bron and Sheba (GA)
Member Since 2015
Thanks Beth. I am always happy to help.
I am just one of many..... this is such a super community.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
carfurby (GA)
Member Since 2012
I'm so sorry about Chris. Sending prayers.
Elmo is a unique kitty and there have been circumstances where we have recommended a reduced dose or a skipped shot to keep Elmo safe and allow Beth to get some sleep. Each cat is different and sometimes we have to change things to help a certain kitty. That being said, Wendy's suggestion to give some insulin instead of skipping is a good idea if it is possible at the time. Hopefully soon Beth will be able to give Elmo consistent dosing and keep him in safe numbers.
Elmo is a unique kitty and there have been circumstances where we have recommended a reduced dose or a skipped shot to keep Elmo safe and allow Beth to get some sleep. Each cat is different and sometimes we have to change things to help a certain kitty. That being said, Wendy's suggestion to give some insulin instead of skipping is a good idea if it is possible at the time. Hopefully soon Beth will be able to give Elmo consistent dosing and keep him in safe numbers.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Thank you, Bron@Beth 73 I am so sorry you had to let civvie Chris go. That must have been so hard for you with everything else going on and no sleep
RIP Chris
We have had to let a fur baby a year go up until last two years . For some reason this one has hurt my heart especially . My son found he and his brother , Ben, as tiny kittens someone had dumped in a ditch . The brothers have been inseparable for these 16 years . Such sweet , gentle boys . I'm sad for Ben too ...he has been getting tons of extra attention this week
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Amen , Carla and thank you for your early morning care after Bron has taken the all nighter night shift. You all are the most selfless , caring people I've ever metI'm so sorry about Chris. Sending prayers.
Elmo is a unique kitty and there have been circumstances where we have recommended a reduced dose or a skipped shot to keep Elmo safe and allow Beth to get some sleep. Each cat is different and sometimes we have to change things to help a certain kitty. That being said, Wendy's suggestion to give some insulin instead of skipping is a good idea if it is possible at the time. Hopefully soon Beth will be able to give Elmo consistent dosing and keep him in safe numbers.
. How you do all you do amazes me ...to me you truly are a Super Bean
Suzanne Burton
Member Since 2019
Added to the above is the fact that in the middle of all this we had to have our sweet civvie Chris put to sleep. It has been a hard, long week that I shared with a few because it was too difficult at that time to share with all. So , loss of 16 year old dear kitty on top of several nights of NO sleep has necessitated tweaks.That added to Elmo's almost unstoppable diving . If anyone cares to read thru these all nighter condos you will see Elmo is not carb sensitive and it takes intense effort to keep him steady .....he literally dives, not slides and at times almost cannot be stopped. Please feel free to check out the alll nighter condos to see what it has taken to keep him from hypo....and the nearest emergency vet is 45 minutes away so the buck stops right here with me and those so gracious to give of their time to help us thru this. I am indebted to each and every name you will see on those marathon condos.
I am sorry for the loss of your longtime kitty, Chris. Our furry friends are truly like family.
On a different note, LT says to check the mail. He is sending some of his oversensitivity to carbs to g'pa.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Lovin’ our Colorado Brother Please have LT add in prayers for Slow Slide skills to his bro too
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
I'd get the +1, to get the lay of the land tonight. It's hard with the "HI" readings, you don't know where he's been dropping from!
LizzieInTexas
Member Since 2016
Aawww Beth, I am so, so sorry for your loss .
You have to do what is best for you and Elmo. Only you know the whole "story". I know that there were times I felt pressure to push the numbers/dose and I wish I had listened to myself (and situation) more.
. You have to do what is best for you and Elmo. Only you know the whole "story". I know that there were times I felt pressure to push the numbers/dose and I wish I had listened to myself (and situation) more.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
And that is why we are buddies, sweet LizzieAawww Beth, I am so, so sorry for your loss
You have to do what is best for you and Elmo. Only you know the whole "story". I know that there were times I felt pressure to push the numbers/dose and I wish I had listened to myself (and situation) more.
Been thinking ab and praying for your aunt and you
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Great minds thinkin' alike , Nan
I did as Wendy suggested and gave him a snack with his shot . Will prob give another snack at + 1 ....the night is young and we've turned off baseball ... it's slow enough to watch even when they're winning but when they're choking big time , not so much 
Next check +2
Sonia & Leo
Member Since 2018
Beth, I was so sad to read that despite everything going on with Elmo you had to deal with saying goodbye to Chris. I'm so very sorry.
Healing and comfort vines to you and your family.
Healing and comfort vines to you and your family.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Thank you , SoniaBeth, I was so sad to read that despite everything going on with Elmo you had to deal with saying goodbye to Chris. I'm so very sorry.
Healing and comfort vines to you and your family.
Not a fun week for sure 
Diane Tyler's Mom GA
Member Since 2018
Beth I am so sorry for your loss, my heart goes out to you
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Thanks , Amanda
He did things his own way 3 years ago and he's doing it again ! Linda has been with us for both rodeos !
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Hit the brakes, Elmo!
Nan & Amber (GA)
Member Since 2016
Hope he does a shallow dive tonight, Beth. I'm hopeful so far! If he looks to have other plans at +4, I'd be inclined to carb him up big-time and try to put a stop to things that way.
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Nan, what approximate numbers constitute a surf ?.. I understand that a 100 point drop like we just had constitutes action/ intervention but what amount of drop should be left alone ?
Beth 73
Member Since 2016
Yes yes. .... 20 more minutes and all will be revealed
I’m believing for a slow , shallow dive....it’s just so wonderful to not see HI or black ... getting to where I detest black