Low phos/carb food w/no turkey, chicken or fish? If you know of one, PLEASE share!

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FurBabiesMama

FurBabiesMama

Member Since 2017
Hi. I think I am looking for something impossible to find. Sorry to put out a post about food - I know we see them all the time - but I am hoping one of you knows of the miracle food I seek. I have been researching using Dr. P's list and the one from Tanya's site as well as the good old internet, and I am starting to lose hope and feel anxious about not being able to find what I need.

I am looking for wet food that has high quality protein, is very low in phosphorous and in carbs, preferably a single protein that is not chicken, turkey or fish (pork is also suspect, so prefer to avoid it).

Here is the food my girls currently eat. I have been happy with the nutrition stats on it (even lower phos wouldn't hurt my feelings!), so I am hoping I do not have to go too far away from this with the new food.
Weruva Chicken Frick A Zee:
% from calories (ME Profile; this is how info is on Dr. P's list) - Protein: 51; Fat: 47; Carbs: 2; Phos: 174
Dry Matter - Protein: 67.4; Fat: 25.8; Carbs: 2.7; Phos: 0.81

Here's the 'why' if you want to keep reading... My Willow (17 yrs old) has a long history of allergies/sensitivities. She has done fine for years now eating exclusively chicken, but I am starting to suspect that she may have developed a sensitivity to it, too. This is a nightmare for me. Both of my girls have to eat the same food. I've tried the microchip feeders, and they wanted nothing to do with them. They have separate bowls, but they have an eating ritual that involves switching bowls multiple times during the process (silly, but cute). I cook chicken broth to add to their food and chicken thigh meat to give as testing/medicine treats. They also get crumbled PureBites freeze dried chicken as a food topper. EVERYTHING is chicken. :( I would like to find something else to try and see 1) if they will eat it and 2) if it begins to alleviate the things that make me suspect the chicken sensitivity.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thank you.

UPDATE: I am open to home made food if anyone knows of recipes that would meet the criteria.
 
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You might be able to find some food with beef. chewy.com has a selector on the left hand side where you can select the type of meat. Dang, I thought I found a site that had lots of food that allowed you to select "no fish" or "no chicken". Maybe it was a brand site. I just went through a lot of foods looking for high calorie food for my cat. Here is the list I came up with. Most of these are chicken, because it has higher calories than other meats. But you might check out some of these in other flavors.

Weruva has a ton of foods. Oh weruva is the site that had the really good buttons that let you narrow down the food. It's high quality food, but too low in calorie for my cat, who also will only eat pate. I should look up and add the info from the spread sheet. I spent an hour coming up with just these. I included the Weruva because it's highly recommended, but also not calorie dense.

IIRC, the Blue Buffalo wilderness had some non-traditional meats, like rabbit and duck.

kcals/5.5 oz food
180 Hill's a/d
242 Blue Buffalo Wilderness chicken grain free
213 Wellness Core Pate chicken, turkey and chicken liver
215 Wellness Core Pate turkey and duck
186 Wellness Complete Health Chicken Pate
181 Fancy Feast Classic Pate chicken
191 Purina Pro Plan DM
147 Hills m/d chicken and liver
173 Hills m/d pork (new flavor, original is 156 kcal) (13% carbs :-()
131 Weruva cats in the kitchen chicken frick a zee
200 Purina Pro Plan True Nature Chicken and Turkey -or- Chicken and Liver (P is a bit high... 350-400)
 
Gypsy's Parent said:
You might be able to find some food with beef. chewy.com has a selector on the left hand side where you can select the type of meat. Dang, I thought I found a site that had lots of food that allowed you to select "no fish" or "no chicken". Maybe it was a brand site. I just went through a lot of foods looking for high calorie food for my cat. Here is the list I came up with. Most of these are chicken, because it has higher calories than other meats. But you might check out some of these in other flavors.

Weruva has a ton of foods. Oh weruva is the site that had the really good buttons that let you narrow down the food. It's high quality food, but too low in calorie for my cat, who also will only eat pate. I should look up and add the info from the spread sheet. I spent an hour coming up with just these. I included the Weruva because it's highly recommended, but also not calorie dense.

IIRC, the Blue Buffalo wilderness had some non-traditional meats, like rabbit and duck.
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Thanks for replying, but I am really looking for specific recommendations that match the criteria I mentioned. I have already looked at every food offered by Weruva (and Tiki Cat) and none meet the criteria. Everything you listed has chicken so definitely does not meet the criteria. As I mentioned, I have been researching with the foods lists and internet searches. I am just hoping someone here is aware of a food that meets the criteria.
 
I had SUCH a hard time trying to find a food that didn’t contain any type of fowl or beef AND was okay for a diabetic. One of the only foods I found was the rabbit and venison varieties of Nature’s Instinct. However, both of them do contain pork and are quite high in phosphorus. Could you consider a phosphorus binder possibly? Ziwipeak also has some single protein foods, but they’re quite a bit lower in protein and still pretty high phosphorus.

Hopefully you get some more suggestions! I know the struggle!
 
Hello :)

Dr. Elsey's Duck pate looks like it might fit the criteria? According to Chewy:
This formula contains 0.35% Phosphorus on an as fed basis (1.61% on a dry matter basis).
This formula has a carbohydrate content of 1.66%.

I'm not sure it's an added bonus, but when they sent me sample cans of the new flavors -- the duck smelled like something I'd want to eat :oops:
Not quite as good -- only one of my cats really took to it. But she absolutely devoured it, and she's a picky eater.
Might be worth a call or email to see if they could send samples. The Beef might also work, but there's something a bit wonky going on with carb info; differing figures are given. Dr. Elsey's should have the most up to date info if you ask, and you could decide from there if you'd want a sample of Beef as well.

Biggest negative is the price of the Duck pate. Ouch :blackeye: I bought the newest flavors when there had been a sale on them. Looks like the sale flipped back over to the older flavors.
Best of luck in the food search :bighug: It shouldn't be so hard to find decent cat food. :bighug:
 
it may be that you need to come up with your own formula and work with a local butcher to produce it, with the addition of other ingredients cats need to make it a complete food, then whether raw or cooked, put into individual packs to freeze -- it could also be that the allergy symptoms are from the stabilizing and preservative ingredients in the canned food, rather than the meats themselves
 
Sam & Esse said:
Hello :)

Dr. Elsey's Duck pate looks like it might fit the criteria? According to Chewy:
This formula contains 0.35% Phosphorus on an as fed basis (1.61% on a dry matter basis).
This formula has a carbohydrate content of 1.66%.

I'm not sure it's an added bonus, but when they sent me sample cans of the new flavors -- the duck smelled like something I'd want to eat :oops:
Not quite as good -- only one of my cats really took to it. But she absolutely devoured it, and she's a picky eater.
Might be worth a call or email to see if they could send samples. The Beef might also work, but there's something a bit wonky going on with carb info; differing figures are given. Dr. Elsey's should have the most up to date info if you ask, and you could decide from there if you'd want a sample of Beef as well.

Biggest negative is the price of the Duck pate. Ouch :blackeye: I bought the newest flavors when there had been a sale on them. Looks like the sale flipped back over to the older flavors.
Best of luck in the food search :bighug: It shouldn't be so hard to find decent cat food.
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Thank you for the recommendation. I had not seen Dr. Elsey's duck pate yet. I just sent them a note asking if they will give me the percentage of calories from protein, carbs and fat (ME profile) as well as the milligrams of phos per 100 kcal. Dr. Elsey's site does have dry matter info (they call it dry weight). Based on that, I think the phos is going to be too high and probably the carbs, too. But, this gives me something to check out that is at least in the ballpark. So, thanks again.
 
CandyH & Catcat said:
it could also be that the allergy symptoms are from the stabilizing and preservative ingredients in the canned food, rather than the meats themselves
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Most of the time, food allergy/sensitivity issues are with protein. Not that it is totally out of the question that it could be something else, but I think the odds are greatly on the side of it being the protein. :)
 
I have 3 cats with kidney disease. 1 each in Stage 1, 2 and 3. 1 diabetic cat in remission.

I have been feeding the following for the past 4 months and recent labs are stable so the best I can hope for. They are the lowest phosphorous and carbohydrate that the cats will eat and a price I can live with. I absolutely refuse to feed prescription kidney diet so I do the best I can. The Rx diets are over priced, full of junk and extremely high in carbohydrates, in my opinion.

You can email Merrick directly and ask for phosphor, carb, salt content etc. I deleted my email from them unfortunately.

Merrick Limited Ingredient Diet Grain Free Real Duck Recipe

Merrick Purrfect Bistro Grain Free Rabbit Pate

Merrick Puurfect Bistro Grain Free Duck Pate
 
Bronx's dad said:
@LizzieInTexas is the low phos food pro :)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1nMBzt57Zi0PcAJ-gSt0NxrTyc3Twi7A0L8o2H2gGkoM/edit#gid=0
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:bighug::bighug: Hi Paul. How is my Bronx boy doing?

Couple of suggestions..
Whole Earth Duck

Take a look at Ziwipeak. They are not cheap but have what have what you are looking for. I only found it locally at one specialty store (and way out of the way). Order from Chewy.

Stay away from bone and bone broth. Bones are high in phosphorous.

Food Fur Life has a pre-mix for making your own raw (or cooked). They use calcium vs. bone so low phos. The issue I had was locating novelty protien to make my own.

https://www.foodfurlife.com/ezcomplete-fur-cats-premix-information.html#/

Try the Purebites duck liver. Gizmo loved it.

Tiki now has raw but very $$
https://tikipets.com/product-category/tiki-cat/raw/
 
@Sam & Esse I heard back from Dr. Elsey's. Here is the "Percent of Energy From" info they provided on the duck:
Protein: 35%
Fat: 60.1%
Carbs: 4.8%
And, phosphorous per 1000 kcal (not how many milligrams per 100 kcal as requested): 3.21%

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like that is going to be an option for us. They provided info on all of their pates which I have attached in case anyone is interested.
 

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Harley Baby & Michele said:
I have 3 cats with kidney disease. 1 each in Stage 1, 2 and 3. 1 diabetic cat in remission.

I have been feeding the following for the past 4 months and recent labs are stable so the best I can hope for. They are the lowest phosphorous and carbohydrate that the cats will eat and a price I can live with. I absolutely refuse to feed prescription kidney diet so I do the best I can. The Rx diets are over priced, full of junk and extremely high in carbohydrates, in my opinion.

You can email Merrick directly and ask for phosphor, carb, salt content etc. I deleted my email from them unfortunately.

Merrick Limited Ingredient Diet Grain Free Real Duck Recipe

Merrick Purrfect Bistro Grain Free Rabbit Pate

Merrick Puurfect Bistro Grain Free Duck Pate
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I agree with you on avoiding the 'prescription' diets. Thanks for the recommendations. I looked at the ingredients, and the Purrfect Bistro duck and rabbit pates both contain chicken, so they are out. (Their site says they have a new formula, so this info may be outdated, but the duck one is on Dr. Pierson's list: Protein: 31; Fat: 64; Carbs: 5; Phos: 380)

Dr. Pierson's list has this info: MERRICK - Limited Ingredient Duck Protein: 26; Fat: 59; Carbs: 15; Phos: 146 The Merrick site says the formula has changed though, so I did a chat with someone via their site. She said she did a percentage of calories calculation based on typical analysis:
Protein: 18.63%
Fat: 77.98%
Carbs: 3.39%
The phosphorus is 0.45%. It is 3435.11 mg/100kcal or 3.44g/100kcal

The phos looks really good, and the carbs are decent, but that is very low protein. Why is this so ridiculously hard!!! :arghh:

UPDATED: I obviously was temporarily insane to have said 'the phos looks really good'. I think I saw the 3.44g as mg initially which would be amazing and maybe impossible! The phos here is horrible as discussed later in this thread.
 
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LizzieInTexas said:
Couple of suggestions..
Whole Earth Duck

Take a look at Ziwipeak. They are not cheap but have what have what you are looking for. I only found it locally at one specialty store (and way out of the way). Order from Chewy.

Stay away from bone and bone broth. Bones are high in phosphorous.

Food Fur Life has a pre-mix for making your own raw (or cooked). They use calcium vs. bone so low phos. The issue I had was locating novelty protien to make my own.

https://www.foodfurlife.com/ezcomplete-fur-cats-premix-information.html#/

Try the Purebites duck liver. Gizmo loved it.

Tiki now has raw but very $$
https://tikipets.com/product-category/tiki-cat/raw/
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Thanks for the recommendations. Whole Earth Duck contains chicken, so that's a no go. The Food Fur Life mix has chicken liver as the first ingredient, so that might be an issue. And, as you mentioned, I don't know where I would get the protein (with no bones/organs ground in).

I used to make bone broth for my girls (cooked up to 24 hours) until I found out that the phos content is higher the longer you cook it. So, for awhile now, I have been making just chicken broth (cooked 4.5/5 hours).

I think I will try the PureBites duck liver. That might be a good first introduction to a protein they have never had to see what they think.

As soon as TikiCat introduced their raw, I reached out to them for info on it, and they never responded. I reached out again later and still no response. They are the first food company I have had ignore a request for info! It does not look like their raw is available around me (yet) anyway. I really don't care what the food costs, if I can find the right thing, I'm getting it!

I am going to get the nutrition info on Ziwipeak to see if it is an option.
 
@FurBabiesMama I'm sorry that didn't pan out :( Thank you for posting that list! Although it has me scratching my head at the bottom portion. It's still listed as %, but no food can have 99.76 protein and 70.46 fat o_O I must be reading it wrong...

I tried checking out the Rawz food, since Sam used to eat that, but it looks like the carbs are a bit higher than you'd like, and the protein too low. A shame, since most of that line is single protein as well.

Are there any specialty butchers in your area? I have an uncle that runs a meat market, and he can get a hold of most anything, for a price. Or I know my local Vallarta market will often carry goat for a fairly good price. Going this route, you'd debone them yourself and adapt the homemade raw recipe over to eggshell. Maybe switch the fish oil capsules to flaxseed oil to avoid adding a salmon-based product.

Still wishing you the best of luck in your search! :bighug: I remember going through every odd, tiny-company brand at a holistic pet store when Sam was diagnosed. Kangaroo and ostrich weren't quite as shocking as alligator and lamb tripe :facepalm: I couldn't bring myself to try the 'gator... but the two girls adored the tripe. Go figure.
 
Sam & Esse said:
@FurBabiesMama I'm sorry that didn't pan out :( Thank you for posting that list! Although it has me scratching my head at the bottom portion. It's still listed as %, but no food can have 99.76 protein and 70.46 fat o_O I must be reading it wrong...
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Too funny! I didn't even pay attention to that bottom part since the top is what I was looking for. I think I will email them back and ask what in the world those figures are supposed to be.

Sam & Esse said:
Are there any specialty butchers in your area? I have an uncle that runs a meat market, and he can get a hold of most anything, for a price. Or I know my local Vallarta market will often carry goat for a fairly good price. Going this route, you'd debone them yourself and adapt the homemade raw recipe over to eggshell. Maybe switch the fish oil capsules to flaxseed oil to avoid adding a salmon-based product.
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There may be, I will have to find out. What homemade recipe are you referring to? I have seen Dr. P's but I would not know how to convert that one to not use bone or chicken.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
There may be, I will have to find out. What homemade recipe are you referring to? I have seen Dr. P's but I would not know how to convert that one to not use bone or chicken.
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I think it might have been this site I was remembering?
https://catladyfitness.com/my-diet/chicken-bone-substitutions/

Slightly down the page, there's this recommendation:
"Depending on where you research, it is recommended to use HALF to a FULL TEASPOON of eggshell powder PER POUND OF MEAT."

She describes how to make eggshell powder, and I know she has her own raw recipe, but I'd personally stick with Dr. P's recipe, just switching out the bone for eggshell.

...In fact, just looking back over the recipe page on Feline Nutrition, there's excellent instructions there for switching over to eggshell as well. Although there's a lot more information, a snippet of that section reads:
"Make the following adjustments to the recipe when using boneless meat:

Use 3 pounds of raw muscle meat (boneless chicken or turkey thigh meat with half of the skin removed, or boneless rabbit) instead of the 4.5 pounds chicken thighs with bone. As the total recipe weight will be about 4.5 pounds, including the meat, organs and yolks, add about 13.5 grams eggshell powder. This would be about 2¼ teaspoons of homemade powder if yours weighed the same as in the example above."

:) I'm sure you've been to the page many times, but I'll link it here for reference.
https://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/making-raw-cat-food-for-do-it-yourselfers

I think the hardest part would be to find a source of hearts that isn't chicken :nailbiting: ...Now I'm imagining walking into a butcher's saying, "And I'll need the heart of a goat! Or half a dozen rabbit hearts! No, no, it's for my cats!" and the butcher is thinking -- oh really? Then, when you ask for the livers as well... :facepalm: Luckily, there's instructions for leaving out the heart, and beef liver is easy to get. Hopefully there wouldn't be a problem with beef.

Edit: I seem to have gotten the Feline Nutrition site mixed up with Cat Info. Very sorry about that. It looks like Dr. P leaves out hearts entirely. And while most recipes don't recommend beef liver, if chicken liver isn't possible, there's not a lot of options left. Also, I remember reading somewhere that if you need to cut down phosphorus content in your raw food you can add a higher percentage of fat in place of muscle. Again, very sorry for getting the sites mixed up :blackeye:
 
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I am not a dim-witted person or even a novice at searching for appropriate cat foods, but right now, I feel completely incompetent and am losing hope. Who knew that trying to drop chicken would make it THIS hard. I have literally spent hours on this and still do not have a good option. Even if I did, I have a sneaking suspicion they would turn their little pink noses up at it. I remember when I transitioned them from dry to wet. I went through SO many foods. This time, I'm clearly not going to have so many options to begin with. (And, what if, after it all, chicken was not even the issue!) Maybe I have 'fallen down a rabbit hole', and I just need to step away from it for a day or two then see if it all makes more sense when I come back to it. Thanks for all of the input. I really very much appreciate it.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
I agree with you on avoiding the 'prescription' diets. Thanks for the recommendations. I looked at the ingredients, and the Purrfect Bistro duck and rabbit pates both contain chicken, so they are out. (Their site says they have a new formula, so this info may be outdated, but the duck one is on Dr. Pierson's list: Protein: 31; Fat: 64; Carbs: 5; Phos: 380)

Dr. Pierson's list has this info: MERRICK - Limited Ingredient Duck Protein: 26; Fat: 59; Carbs: 15; Phos: 146 The Merrick site says the formula has changed though, so I did a chat with someone via their site. She said she did a percentage of calories calculation based on typical analysis:
Protein: 18.63%
Fat: 77.98%
Carbs: 3.39%
The phosphorus is 0.45%. It is 3435.11 mg/100kcal or 3.44g/100kcal

The phos looks really good, and the carbs are decent, but that is very low protein. Why is this so ridiculously hard!!! :arghh:
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The 15% carbs in merrick limited ingredients duck on dr Pierson’s is a mistake I think, I called them and they said 1.5
That’s what Bella and Andy both eat
 
Bellasmom said:
The 15% carbs in merrick limited ingredients duck on dr Pierson’s is a mistake I think, I called them and they said 1.5
That’s what Bella and Andy both eat
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Hi. As I mentioned, the formula has changed, so I contacted them via their site. This is the info they provided yesterday.

She said the percentage of calories calculation is based on typical analysis:
Protein: 18.63%
Fat: 77.98%
Carbs: 3.39%
The phosphorus is 0.45%. It is 3435.11 mg/100kcal or 3.44g/100kcal
 
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FurBabiesMama said:
Hi. As I mentioned, the formula has changed, so I contacted them via their site. This is the info they provided yesterday.

She said the percentage of calories calculation is based on typical analysis:
Protein: 18.63%
Fat: 77.98%
Carbs: 3.39%
The phosphorus is 0.45%. It is 3435.11 mg/100kcal or 3.44g/100kcal
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So is it still ok for ckd??
 
Bellasmom said:
So is it still ok for ckd??
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I just reached out to them again to confirm the figures I was given yesterday, and I was told they are correct. I questioned her several times on the 3435.11 mg of phosphorous per 100kcal, and she stood by that number. That seems crazy to me. On Dr. Pierson's chart, the food with the highest mg per 100kcal has 845 (and she recommends staying below 200 for cats with kidney issues). So, their figure for this food seems absurd, but she said it is correct. She said the food is made for 'normal, healthy cats', and that if someone needs food for a cat with kidney issues, they would be glad to speak with them about a more appropriate food. I told her that if that figure is correct, the cat would not stay 'healthy'. That would not be good for any cat's kidneys. She said she was sorry but the food meets the AAFCO guidelines. :mad:
 
FurBabiesMama said:
I just reached out to them again to confirm the figures I was given yesterday, and I was told they are correct. I questioned her several times on the 3435.11 mg of phosphorous per 100kcal, and she stood by that number. That seems crazy to me. On Dr. Pierson's chart, the food with the highest mg per 100kcal has 845 (and she recommends staying below 200 for cats with kidney issues). So, their figure for this food seems absurd, but she said it is correct. She said the food is made for 'normal, healthy cats', and that if someone needs food for a cat with kidney issues, they would be glad to speak with them about a more appropriate food. I told her that if that figure is correct, the cat would not stay 'healthy'. That would not be good for any cat's kidneys. She said she was sorry but the food meets the AAFCO guidelines. :mad:
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Oh great I'm killing my cats, so on the search for new cat food:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
Bellasmom said:
Oh great I'm killing my cats, so on the search for new cat food
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I questioned her 3 or 4 times about that figure, and she insisted it was correct. I could not believe it. I know how hard it is to find a food that works, so I am REALLY sorry. On the bright side, if this is true, at least you found out now and can ditch it.
 
FurBabiesMama said:
I questioned her 3 or 4 times about that figure, and she insisted it was correct. I could not believe it. I know how hard it is to find a food that works, so I am REALLY sorry. On the bright side, if this is true, at least you found out now and can ditch it.
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I also called and read to the lady who answered what they told u, she gonna check into it and email me, seems that is terribly high, not that I dont believe u, just see what someone else says, I called there a month or so ago and they told me it was the best for them, they even knew who I was when I called and brought up where someone told me that so when I get email I will post
 
This is so frustrating...to no end it seems, why cant they just leave things alone!! And I have like 14 cans at home, gonna return them
 
Bellasmom said:
I also called and read to the lady who answered what they told u, she gonna check into it and email me, seems that is terribly high, not that I dont believe u, just see what someone else says, I called there a month or so ago and they told me it was the best for them, they even knew who I was when I called and brought up where someone told me that so when I get email I will post
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Definitely let me know if they come back with something different. I pretty much told the lady that the figure was crazy, and she just said it is within the guidelines and not intended for cat's with special needs. I told her she should be sure of what she was telling me since I was about to share the info with a large population of cat owners, and she still stood by the figure.

Can you please clear up some confusion for me about your screenshots? Is the first one (2:49pm on the image) the exact same as the fourth one (with the same time)? And is the third one (3:04 on the image) the same but and you scrolled up to show more of the message text? o_O

Part of the problem is the many different ways nutrition info is stated. I always try to get them to give me the percentage of calories from protein, fat and carbs (ME profile) and the mg of phosphorous per 100 kcal so that I can look at the info along with what's on Dr. P's list. They sometimes want to give it every other way, but I try to push for it the way I asked for it. (That is something I LOVE about Weruva. They publish this info so you do not even have to ask.)

I'll look at the list you provided when I get a chance. Thanks.
 
I am going through the same search you are and my head is spinning. This has been going on for months and seems all consuming. I had finally settled on Weruva wet foods as a good choice with high protein low phospherous but my kitty has significantly deteriorated the past few weeks, basically stopped eating and after 3 rounds of different antibiotics and an ultrasound yesterday the vet is suggesting she has IBD Or IBS (?). I came home with a bag of dry hydrolyzed protein prescription diet full of carbs and seemingly completely inappropriate for her diabetes. Her readings are now literally off the meter, all I get is HI. I am searching for a protein other than chicken as that is what she's had the most of so perhaps that's causing the inflammation. I know you don't want chicken but Wellness was mentioned above as a relatively low phosphorous option. I had believed that myself based on what I was reading but the information on their website which is very detailed indicates that isn't true. I have found you really have to go to the source to verify as the recipes are always subject to change. I think Wellness changed a few years back. Unfortunately I learned that late and my little one has likely suffered. Lesson learned.
 
If you are happy to feed a home prepared diet you can get a low phosphorus low carb diet easily and with the meat of your choice.
That’s what I did with Sheba.
If you substitute the source of calcium with egg shell powder which is really easy to make, and replace some of the meat with cooked egg white you will have a low phosphorus diet.
Have a look at this link. I’ll be happy to help further if you want. I feed my cats a raw diet. But it doesn’t have to be raw if you want it cooked

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/home-prepared-diet-of-crd-cats.150441/
 
FurBabiesMama said:
Definitely let me know if they come back with something different. I pretty much told the lady that the figure was crazy, and she just said it is within the guidelines and not intended for cat's with special needs. I told her she should be sure of what she was telling me since I was about to share the info with a large population of cat owners, and she still stood by the figure.

Can you please clear up some confusion for me about your screenshots? Is the first one (2:49pm on the image) the exact same as the fourth one (with the same time)? And is the third one (3:04 on the image) the same but and you scrolled up to show more of the message text? o_O

Part of the problem is the many different ways nutrition info is stated. I always try to get them to give me the percentage of calories from protein, fat and carbs (ME profile) and the mg of phosphorous per 100 kcal so that I can look at the info along with what's on Dr. P's list. They sometimes want to give it every other way, but I try to push for it the way I asked for it. (That is something I LOVE about Weruva. They publish this info so you do not even have to ask.)

I'll look at the list you provided when I get a chance. Thanks.
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I was just trying to show all of it, I probably didn’t show it in order as I was at work and spent 20 min on phone with them and asked to email it to me as I was gonna share on feline diabetic forum
 
@Bron and Sheba (GA) I have been super busy today and have not yet had a chance to read through everything at the link you provided, but I am going to as soon as I can. I would be glad to make their food, if that would get me what I need for them. I may be reaching out after reading everything. Thank you!!!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you are happy to feed a home prepared diet you can get a low phosphorus low carb diet easily and with the meat of your choice.
That’s what I did with Sheba.
If you substitute the source of calcium with egg shell powder which is really easy to make, and replace some of the meat with cooked egg white you will have a low phosphorus diet.
Have a look at this link. I’ll be happy to help further if you want. I feed my cats a raw diet. But it doesn’t have to be raw if you want it cooked

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/home-prepared-diet-of-crd-cats.150441/
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I will look into this recipe. Also, I have never heard of young again and it looks promising. I appreciate the tip thank you so much.
 
MaddieM said:
I am going through the same search you are and my head is spinning. This has been going on for months and seems all consuming. I had finally settled on Weruva wet foods as a good choice with high protein low phospherous but my kitty has significantly deteriorated the past few weeks, basically stopped eating and after 3 rounds of different antibiotics and an ultrasound yesterday the vet is suggesting she has IBD Or IBS (?). I came home with a bag of dry hydrolyzed protein prescription diet full of carbs and seemingly completely inappropriate for her diabetes. Her readings are now literally off the meter, all I get is HI. I am searching for a protein other than chicken as that is what she's had the most of so perhaps that's causing the inflammation. I know you don't want chicken but Wellness was mentioned above as a relatively low phosphorous option. I had believed that myself based on what I was reading but the information on their website which is very detailed indicates that isn't true. I have found you really have to go to the source to verify as the recipes are always subject to change. I think Wellness changed a few years back. Unfortunately I learned that late and my little one has likely suffered. Lesson learned.
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Just read this post and Bron and Sheba's response about a raw diet with supplement. I use FoodFurLife EZ Complete with raw for Idjit, another member partially cooks her meat and uses the same supplement. You can also use it with completely cooked meat. It has egg shell instead of bone for calcium and that really reduces the phos content. Check out the website and see if even in the future it might be an option for Maddie
https://www.foodfurlife.com/#/
 
Figaro's Liz said:
I'm not sure how low in phosphorous you need, but perhaps Koha LIDs? I recently posted the nutritional analysis they sent me... let's see....
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Thanks for the info. Dr. P recommends under 200 mg phos per 100 kcal. The current food I feed my girls is 174. Since Willow now has the early indicators of CKD, I don't want any higher than that and preferable a bit lower, if possible. Based on the minerals chart at the bottom, it looks like the beef is the only one that would qualify, but that food is only 33% protein and is 65% fat. I really want more protein than that to avoid muscle wasting.
 
You can add more protein without adding any phosphorus by giving cooked egg white. It is a first class protein and a great way to add protein without any phosphorus.
I used to give Sheba a 1/2 an egg white every day. They can have a whole egg white a day if they will eat it. I used to hard boil the egg and mash the white and put into the food.
 
PureBites freeze dried duck liver was suggested, so I order some to see what the girls think of it (coming today), but it just dawned on me that it probably has too much phosphorous for me to introduce it to them. I am still learning about the sources of phosphorous, but don't organs have quite a bit? I found this: https://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-005121000000000000000.html?maxCount=68 I have no idea how accurate it is and have not looked for another source to verify any of it, but it lists Duck, domesticated, liver, raw Phosphorus: 396mg per 200 calories. Of course, they currently get PureBites freeze dried chicken breast as a food topper, and I know chicken breast has quite a bit, too. I would be glad to replace it, if I knew what would be better. Mia 'requires' a crunchy food topper to get her to start eating. It's like she won't eat her salad without some croutons! :D

I feel like I at least need to make SOME gradual change(s) while figuring everything out. I used to cook chicken breast to give them the meat as a testing/medicine treat, but I changed to chicken thighs after learning they have less phosphorous. I also learned that phosphorous can come out of the bones when you make broth with bones in it. Supposedly, the longer you cook it, the more phos will be in the broth. So, I went from making 24 hour 'bone' broth to 4.5/5 hour chicken broth (still made with drumsticks but the bones do not become soft or have enough time for as much phos to come out of them). I want to make some other change, and it seems like finding a new crunchy food topper would be good. Since I currently suspect that chicken 'may' be the culprit for some allergy/sensitivity symptoms I am seeing, I thought the food topper might be a good opportunity to introduce a new protein and see how they respond. So, if anyone has suggestions on this, let me know!
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
You can add more protein without adding any phosphorus by giving cooked egg white. It is a first class protein and a great way to add protein without any phosphorus.
I used to give Sheba a 1/2 an egg white every day. They can have a whole egg white a day if they will eat it. I used to hard boil the egg and mash the white and put into the food.
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I read about how great cooked egg white is and was excited to try it. The first time I offered some to Willow, she did eat a little, but shortly thereafter, she vomited - bad. It was so weird. I KNOW the egg was not bad or anything like that (I even ate some it myself). Maybe it is a big coincidence, but I felt so bad that I have not offered it again. I guess I need to, but if she vomits like that again, I will know that, as crazy as it seems, the egg must be causing it.

UPDATE: I think I will boil an egg now and try adding some of the white to their lunch today. Keep hope alive!
 
FurBabiesMama said:
I read about how great cooked egg white is and was excited to try it. The first time I offered some to Willow, she did eat a little, but shortly thereafter, she vomited - bad. It was so weird. I KNOW the egg was not bad or anything like that (I even ate some it myself). Maybe it is a big coincidence, but I felt so bad that I have not offered it again. I guess I need to, but if she vomits like that again, I will know that, as crazy as it seems, the egg must be causing it.

UPDATE: I think I will boil an egg now and try adding some of the white to their lunch today. Keep hope alive!
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Just try a small amount and maybe don't hard boil it but soft boil it.
Sheba was never in love with eating it but she usually ate most of it. She never vomited it though.
 
NO MORE EGG WHITES EVER! I boiled an egg and took a small amount of the white and pulverized it then mixed a little in with the food at lunch time. A few minutes after eating, Willow started the terrible vomiting again. First, it was a massive amount that looked like more than her little stomach should be able to hold. Then, over the next 15 minutes she moved around restlessly, vomiting a small amount every few minutes. I gave her some Cerenia a few minutes ago. Poor baby. I threw out the rest of their lunch and made fresh food for their bowls so it will be there if/when they are hungry again and come back for more. (Mia did not eat much lunch which I attribute to her not liking the egg, but at least she did not get sick.) I also put out fresh water in case Willow seeks water (I know anytime I have ever vomited, I wanted cool water afterwards). Oh, she just drank a little. Good. I'll feel even better when I see her eat something.

Clearly, Willow has a very strong bad reaction to the tiniest bit of egg white. Great. Let's add that to the challenges. :(

UPDATED: 20 minutes after I posted this, she started eating some!
 
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