New Member 9/13/10

[Las]

Hello, I'm Las & my 5 1/2 year kitty Sierra ( her photo is my avatar ) was diagnosed as being diabetic last Sat 9/7/19. She had caught ringworm from a new kitten that decided to make us her new owners. I quarantined her for over 2 weeks & she didn't have any URI or other issues ( that we detected ). But after bringing her into our colony of house cats my husband got ringworm & so did several of our grown kitties. Sierra had it bad on both of her ears so I had her separated & could doctor her ears, which started looking much better. Before I could release her she stopped eating her treats & nightly canned cat food. So I kept her where I could monitor her eating, water intake & litter box usage. At 1st I could just place canned food onto the roof of her mouth & get her to eat & then she would sometimes eat some dry food. She seemed to get better & then had an episode of vomiting. Put her on Reglan ( for nausea ) then Ranitidine for her tummy, then Cyproheptadine to help stimulate her appetite ( which seemed to be helping ). Then last Friday an hour or so after getting all meds down ( gave Reglan 1st waited an hour, then gave Ranitidine & waited an hour the then the Cypro & waited 30 minutes then hand fed canned A/D ) which is what I had been doing twice a day all week long she threw everything up. That's when I called my vet & told them I was bringing her in. It was late 5:30 PM ( they close at 6PM ) & vet was already doing spay/neuter surgeries for cats from the shelter that had been adopted. So I had to leave her over night, they did blood work Sat AM & her blood sugar levels where high as well as her liver enzymes. They started her on IV's ( not sure Friday PM or Sat AM ) to flush her system. On Monday I went out to see her & speak with the vet as to what plan of action was. They had given her the Pet version of Insulin that AM & again in PM, her #'s where good Tuesday & Wed but this AM back up to 330. Gave another shot. On Tuesday when I went out to see her I was able to get her to eat about 1/2 of the canned food that they had in her cage & she seemed to be doing pretty well. I couldn't go out Wed but did Thursday & she seemed really dinged out. They had asked me to bring some of the food she normally ate to see if she was at all interested in it, so I took her Dry Cat Chow Indoor Formula & some Friskies treats but she just turned her head away when I offered them to her. I had also taken a larger syringe ( that I use for force feeding when need be ) with canned A/D. The vet wanted her to get some food down so I was finally able to get that down her ( just a bit at a time ). They where suppose to check her blood at 5 PM but there where swamped so I will not get those #'s till Friday afternoon. It about killed me seeing her looking so sad & miserable & I really need to know am I doing the right thing for her? I told the vet that I have my hands full ( 3 birds & 23 other cats & I husband that I care for 100% by myself & I'm no spring chicken any more ) that I was scared to bring her home if I couldn't fully give her the care/attention that she needs. The vet feels that if we can get her liver healing that she may not need to be on insulin at all, but for now it's going to be needed. But it scares the heck out of me, esp. not having a meter & checking her blood at home before doing any injections. I have been reading on the Cat/dog meters but am afraid it will be hard & $$ to get the supplies it requires. Seems many are just using human meters & doing okay monitoring like that! So basically I have a couple of questions! 1st how ill where some of your kitties when 1st diagnosed ( super ill having to stay at the vets for a week or more )? I just need to know if I'm making the right decisions for Sierra putting here thru all of this? And if we decided to go in for the long haul what testing meters & supplies do you all use? I watched 3 the U-Tube videos on getting blood from the ear & that looks pretty straight forward. I had to get over my fear of needles several years ago when I had to learn to give SQ fluids to kitties. So any advice you have ( esp. if you have had very ill kitties when they where 1st diagnosed & how you got thru that scary/stress filled time ). Thanks so much!

 

[JanetNJ]

Hello, I'm Las & my 5 1/2 year kitty Sierra ( her photo is my avatar ) was diagnosed as being diabetic last Sat 9/7/19. She had caught ringworm from a new kitten that decided to make us her new owners. I quarantined her for over 2 weeks & she didn't have any URI or other issues ( that we detected ). But after bringing her into our colony of house cats my husband got ringworm & so did several of our grown kitties. Sierra had it bad on both of her ears so I had her separated & could doctor her ears, which started looking much better. Before I could release her she stopped eating her treats & nightly canned cat food. So I kept her where I could monitor her eating, water intake & litter box usage. At 1st I could just place canned food onto the roof of her mouth & get her to eat & then she would sometimes eat some dry food. She seemed to get better & then had an episode of vomiting. Put her on Reglan ( for nausea ) then Ranitidine for her tummy, then Cyproheptadine to help stimulate her appetite ( which seemed to be helping ). Then last Friday an hour or so after getting all meds down ( gave Reglan 1st waited an hour, then gave Ranitidine & waited an hour the then the Cypro & waited 30 minutes then hand fed canned A/D ) which is what I had been doing twice a day all week long she threw everything up. That's when I called my vet & told them I was bringing her in. It was late 5:30 PM ( they close at 6PM ) & vet was already doing spay/neuter surgeries for cats from the shelter that had been adopted. So I had to leave her over night, they did blood work Sat AM & her blood sugar levels where high as well as her liver enzymes. They started her on IV's ( not sure Friday PM or Sat AM ) to flush her system. On Monday I went out to see her & speak with the vet as to what plan of action was. They had given her the Pet version of Insulin that AM & again in PM, her #'s where good Tuesday & Wed but this AM back up to 330. Gave another shot. On Tuesday when I went out to see her I was able to get her to eat about 1/2 of the canned food that they had in her cage & she seemed to be doing pretty well. I couldn't go out Wed but did Thursday & she seemed really dinged out. They had asked me to bring some of the food she normally ate to see if she was at all interested in it, so I took her Dry Cat Chow Indoor Formula & some Friskies treats but she just turned her head away when I offered them to her. I had also taken a larger syringe ( that I use for force feeding when need be ) with canned A/D. The vet wanted her to get some food down so I was finally able to get that down her ( just a bit at a time ). They where suppose to check her blood at 5 PM but there where swamped so I will not get those #'s till Friday afternoon. It about killed me seeing her looking so sad & miserable & I really need to know am I doing the right thing for her? I told the vet that I have my hands full ( 3 birds & 23 other cats & I husband that I care for 100% by myself & I'm no spring chicken any more ) that I was scared to bring her home if I couldn't fully give her the care/attention that she needs. The vet feels that if we can get her liver healing that she may not need to be on insulin at all, but for now it's going to be needed. But it scares the heck out of me, esp. not having a meter & checking her blood at home before doing any injections. I have been reading on the Cat/dog meters but am afraid it will be hard & $$ to get the supplies it requires. Seems many are just using human meters & doing okay monitoring like that! So basically I have a couple of questions! 1st how ill where some of your kitties when 1st diagnosed ( super ill having to stay at the vets for a week or more )? I just need to know if I'm making the right decisions for Sierra putting here thru all of this? And if we decided to go in for the long haul what testing meters & supplies do you all use? I watched 3 the U-Tube videos on getting blood from the ear & that looks pretty straight forward. I had to get over my fear of needles several years ago when I had to learn to give SQ fluids to kitties. So any advice you have ( esp. if you have had very ill kitties when they where 1st diagnosed & how you got thru that scary/stress filled time ). Thanks so much!

So sorry about the diagnosis. Yes many on here use human meters and that's fine. The numbers will just run a bit lower. I use the alpha track pretty meter, but to keep the cost down I use freestyle insulinx strips with it which I buy cheap on eBay. Either way is fine.

She will no longer be able to eat that dry food. Is about 35-40% carb... It's like feeding her donuts. She needs a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. There is a food chart in my signature showing the carb contents. Pick foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).

Testing is intimidating but once you have been doing it a couple weeks the capillaries start to grow and it is much easier. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Welcome Las and Sierra. You have come to the right place for information and support to learn about effective diabetic care for Sierra. Not every cat exhibits the same symptoms of diabetes onset. Many just drink and pee excessively and are ravenous. Others are more dramatic and are hospitalized with more severe symptoms. The most important thing here is what happened and is happening with Sierra and your plans for treatment.

Many of us use human meters because of meter and strip price and availability. The ReliOn Prime from Walmart is about $9 and 50 strips about $9 (100 for $18). Lancets are very inexpensive and you do not necessarily need a lancing device, many of us just use the small lancet freehand to make the tiny prick to get the blood sample.

There are different insulins that can be used for a cat ranging in price and effect. The least expensive insulins (Novolin and Vetsulin) are harsher, faster acting and don't last in the body as long, and possibly have less effectiveness with regulating a cat's blood sugar. There is a specific cat insulin: Prozinc which works well for many cats, it's an "in & out" insulin but is generally safer and more effective than the previous two. Then there are what is called "depot" insulins like Lantus & Basaglar (which is is biologically similar to Lantus) that are glargine insulins and Levemir (detemir) which are used for humans also. These insulins are gentler, longer lasting and have been proven to be very effective with regulation of blood sugar levels. However, they are more expensive and we usually refer members using them to the fact that they can buy them from a pharmacy in Canada (with a prescription) for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost here in the U.S.

You can read about them all in the individual Insulin Support Group forums:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

Diet is absolutely important, and as JanetNJ informed you the dry is high in carbs and not the best option for a 'sugar cat'. It would be best to feed Sierra a low carbohydrate wet food diet to help lower blood sugar levels and with testing and insulin therapy regulate the blood sugar and hopefully into remission.

You can post more questions and concerns in the Main Health forum HERE so that more members will see and can respond. This Introduction forum is only the welcome mat and not as heavily monitored.

 

[Las]

So sorry about the diagnosis. Yes many on here use human meters and that's fine. The numbers will just run a bit lower. I use the alpha track pretty meter, but to keep the cost down I use freestyle insulinx strips with it which I buy cheap on eBay. Either way is fine.

She will no longer be able to eat that dry food. Is about 35-40% carb... It's like feeding her donuts. She needs a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. There is a food chart in my signature showing the carb contents. Pick foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).

Testing is intimidating but once you have been doing it a couple weeks the capillaries start to grow and it is much easier. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.

Thank! Yes I have already went to W/M & purchased Fancy Feast Canned & some Friskies Canned. My cats only like Pate typed canned foods. The only reason I took the dry out yesterday was that my vet requested me to bring some to see if she would show any interest in it & the answer was "no way". I plan on loading 2 syringes of A/D to take out with me today as the lack of food ( I don't think they are trying to force feed her at all only leaving canned food & water in her cage ). And she must have food in her system to keep her going! Wish I had other vet options but live in a small town & this is the only vet that is open 6 days a week. The others are not open on weekends & are impossible to get hold of even for an emergency ( I know as our 12 year old German Shepard started throwing up pure blood on a Sunday starting around 5:30 PM. I called every vet listed in our phone book constantly for over 3 hours & by the time I got hold of One our only option was for him to come to our house & put her down ). So I don't feel I have any other options besides following thru with him or having Sierra put down ( & that will be my last option ).

 

[Las]

Welcome Las and Sierra. You have come to the right place for information and support to learn about effective diabetic care for Sierra. Not every cat exhibits the same symptoms of diabetes onset. Many just drink and pee excessively and are ravenous. Others are more dramatic and are hospitalized with more severe symptoms. The most important thing here is what happened and is happening with Sierra and your plans for treatment.

Many of us use human meters because of meter and strip price and availability. The ReliOn Prime from Walmart is about $9 and 50 strips about $9 (100 for $18). Lancets are very inexpensive and you do not necessarily need a lancing device, many of us just use the small lancet freehand to make the tiny prick to get the blood sample.

There are different insulins that can be used for a cat ranging in price and effect. The least expensive insulins (Novolin and Vetsulin) are harsher, faster acting and don't last in the body as long, and possibly have less effectiveness with regulating a cat's blood sugar. There is a specific cat insulin: Prozinc which works well for many cats, it's an "in & out" insulin but is generally safer and more effective than the previous two. Then there are what is called "depot" insulins like Lantus & Basaglar (which is is biologically similar to Lantus) that are glargine insulins and Levemir (detemir) which are used for humans also. These insulins are gentler, longer lasting and have been proven to be very effective with regulation of blood sugar levels. However, they are more expensive and we usually refer members using them to the fact that they can buy them from a pharmacy in Canada (with a prescription) for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost here in the U.S.

You can read about them all in the individual Insulin Support Group forums:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

Diet is absolutely important, and as JanetNJ informed you the dry is high in carbs and not the best option for a 'sugar cat'. It would be best to feed Sierra a low carbohydrate wet food diet to help lower blood sugar levels and with testing and insulin therapy regulate the blood sugar and hopefully into remission.

You can post more questions and concerns in the Main Health forum HERE so that more members will see and can respond. This Introduction forum is only the welcome mat and not as heavily monitored.

Thanks so much! Yes I spent hours online last night reading & printing off the information available thru this message board. But what I really need to know right now from people who have experienced this is how ill did their kitties get while 1st diagnosed as being Diabetic & did they have to stay at your vet for any extended period? Sierra didn't present any signs off hand ( no drinking a lot of water & filling the litter box with urine ). Today is day 8 since I took her in & they kept her & I am not certain that she really getting the full care / attention that she need ( esp. getting food into her ). Thanks!

 

[Idjit's mom]

Thanks so much! Yes I spent hours online last night reading & printing off the information available thru this message board. But what I really need to know right now from people who have experienced this is how ill did their kitties get while 1st diagnosed as being Diabetic & did they have to stay at your vet for any extended period? Sierra didn't present any signs off hand ( no drinking a lot of water & filling the litter box with urine ). Today is day 8 since I took her in & they kept her & I am not certain that she really getting the full care / attention that she need ( esp. getting food into her ). Thanks!

Las, about the only way I know for you to ask that question: "But what I really need to know right now from people who have experienced this is how ill did their kitties get while 1st diagnosed as being Diabetic & did they have to stay at your vet for any extended period?"
and get response is to create a new thread in the Main Health forum. Each kitty has a different story, and some kitties had DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis) which is very serious and life threatening, others had pancreatitis which is inflammation of the pancreas and affects appetite and is very painful.

It would be hard to judge Sierra's condition and her stay at the vet compared to any other cat and their situation.

I am tagging more experienced members to look through your posts and perhaps shed a better light on the issue and provide more information.

@Marje and Gracie
@MrWorfMen's Mom
@Bron and Sheba (GA)

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks so much! Yes I spent hours online last night reading & printing off the information available thru this message board. But what I really need to know right now from people who have experienced this is how ill did their kitties get while 1st diagnosed as being Diabetic & did they have to stay at your vet for any extended period? Sierra didn't present any signs off hand ( no drinking a lot of water & filling the litter box with urine ). Today is day 8 since I took her in & they kept her & I am not certain that she really getting the full care / attention that she need ( esp. getting food into her ). Thanks!

One thing we say here over and over and over is “Every Cat is Different” (ECID). So don’t base Sierra’s condition now or her need to be in the hospital on any other cat on this board. For example, my Gracie showed signs of diabetes and I immediately got her in and started her on insulin. She was never ill. But others don’t know their cat even has diabetes until the cat has diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) and ends up in the hospital for an extended time, some needing feeding tubes.

Diabetes is a very, very treatable condition. I would be asking the vet why she needs to be in the hospital and can you treat her at home. Does she have blood or urine ketones? Are her electrolytes off in her blood chemistries or have they mentioned that she has DKA?

Obviously, you can care for her diabetic needs at home. If she needs fluids, you can give those at home much cheaper than what it’s costing her to be in the hospital. How high are her liver enzymes? If you can post her labs, I’d be happy to look at them for you. There are treatments for liver issues that you can do at home depending on what the issue is and how high her liver enzymes are. You can give her meds for nausea at home. We see it quite often here and my guess is he might not be giving her any nausea meds but is giving appetite stimulants and who wants to eat if their nauseous? I have never understood why so many vets throw appy stimulants at a kitty without first addressing nausea and if she has some liver inflammation, she might be nauseous. If she potentially has triaditis or cholangiohepatitis (not uncommon in diabetics), you can likely treat that at home as well if you have the time (I understand your plate is full with lots of pets).

 

[Idjit's mom]

Sierra is still at the vet & they have been testing her. I have an appointment at 4:30 PM to discuss bringing her home today. I plan on running by W/M & purchasing a Relion test meter & strips & lancets & taking those out with me & ask them to show me how to use the meter so I can start my own chart for her at home. I bought several kind of canned cat food to have on hand. So I'm heading out right now. Will post an update ASAP. Thanks so much!

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/newly-diagnosed-frustrated.219195/#post-2443200

@Las You have posted this on a thread begun by DiabetesSucks. I am copying and pasting this in a reply to you on the Introduction forum in the thread you have created there.

That said, I am very happy that Sierra might be coming home, I know that these stays at the clinic are very expensive. If they don't show you how to use the meter, or balk at you testing at home, we can help a lot in that area. Testing is one of the best things you can do to help her, and possibly save her life. Not all vets are as knowledgeable or experienced with feline diabetes and/or long term care, if that is what happens. We will do all we can to help you learn what to do and how to do it, there is a ton of knowledge and years of experience here for you to draw upon, as well as the support of a very caring community.

Please create a signature for Sierra,
1. Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the country/time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.
2. Another thing that will help us help you when you get started BG testing at home is to set up a spreadsheet like the one we use here. You will see how the trends and patterns emerge, and members can review her progress before offering suggestions or advice:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

Please do let us know what happens at the clinic. All these fur babies are very precious and don't ask for illness, injury or disease.

 

[JanetNJ]

Thank! Yes I have already went to W/M & purchased Fancy Feast Canned & some Friskies Canned. My cats only like Pate typed canned foods. The only reason I took the dry out yesterday was that my vet requested me to bring some to see if she would show any interest in it & the answer was "no way". I plan on loading 2 syringes of A/D to take out with me today as the lack of food ( I don't think they are trying to force feed her at all only leaving canned food & water in her cage ). And she must have food in her system to keep her going! Wish I had other vet options but live in a small town & this is the only vet that is open 6 days a week. The others are not open on weekends & are impossible to get hold of even for an emergency ( I know as our 12 year old German Shepard started throwing up pure blood on a Sunday starting around 5:30 PM. I called every vet listed in our phone book constantly for over 3 hours & by the time I got hold of One our only option was for him to come to our house & put her down ). So I don't feel I have any other options besides following thru with him or having Sierra put down ( & that will be my last option ).

if she's not eating then assist feed. get a needless syringe, mix pate food with water to thin it out and squirt it in her mouth. She needs calories or the liver will become fatty. so sorry about your dog! how sad and terrifying. I would recommend you get a ketone meter, or ketone urine strips as well. we are here for you if you need us.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Las I'm so sorry about your dog, that must have been awful.
I'm not sure why the vet isn't sending Sierra home with some antinausea tablets and insulin.
You have been getting some great information from the others.
As the others said feline diabetes is a very treatable disease and cats go on to lead normal lives once the treatment is sorted.
Some FD cats lose their appetite at the beginning of FD. Sheba, who was very food motivated, lost her appetite initially but was fine after about a week.

Sierra may well do much better at home.
She would certainly be happier at home and would be much more likely to eat for you at home.
Unless she has other issues, she should not need to stay in hospital just for the FD.
Do you know if she had any ketones in her urine? This is something you need to find out before bringing her home.

To bring her home you would need

• to have a good insulin such as Lantus or levemir or Prozinc.
• Also I would recommend a human testing meter to test the blood sugars. They are cheaper than the pet meters to run and most of us use them, and the dosing methods used here are based on human meters.
• I would ask for some cerenia and ondansetron for the nausea to give at home.
• It sounds as if you know how to syringe feed if necessary and have A/D at home.
• Any meds the vets think are necessary for the liver issues
• Ask about giving fluids at home if necessary
• Have either Ketostix to test the urine for ketones, or have a blood ketone meter
• Low carb food. A good variety to tempt her.

Keep asking lots of question. We are happy to help in any way.

 

[Las]

if she's not eating then assist feed. get a needless syringe, mix pate food with water to thin it out and squirt it in her mouth. She needs calories or the liver will become fatty. so sorry about your dog! how sad and terrifying. I would recommend you get a ketone meter, or ketone urine strips as well. we are here for you if you need us.

Thanks for your reply. I use A/D canned food from the vet for ill kitties & have saved those larger syringes that had gel probiotics in them, so that's what I use all of the time when I need to feed a kitty that's either not eating at all or supplement feeding. She has tried to eat some on her own since I brought her home Friday evening & then I take over & feed her the rest with the syringe. And I give her water via a smaller syringe every hour or so ( since I haven't seen her drinking on her own as yet & she's not on IV fluid right now ). The vet has her on that newer supplement for the liver ( one blue pill once a day ) & I'm giving her Reglan & Ranitidine twice a day & getting food down her. So far so good. Will drop her off at the vet Monday afternoon for a glucose test while I go to a medical appoint myself. Then hopefully someone will take time & tell me how to do the tests at home ( bought everything I should need at W/M yesterday ) & chart the results & figure out the amount of insulin. I have tried reading some of the things I've printed off from here, but I just can't really understand any of it! Feel like my brain just can process what I'm reading. I don't suppose anyone has published a "Diabetes for Dummies" book yet, because that's what I feel I need right now...........

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Thanks for your reply. I use A/D canned food from the vet for ill kitties & have saved those larger syringes that had gel probiotics in them, so that's what I use all of the time when I need to feed a kitty that's either not eating at all or supplement feeding. She has tried to eat some on her own since I brought her home Friday evening & then I take over & feed her the rest with the syringe. And I give her water via a smaller syringe every hour or so ( since I haven't seen her drinking on her own as yet & she's not on IV fluid right now ). The vet has her on that newer supplement for the liver ( one blue pill once a day ) & I'm giving her Reglan & Ranitidine twice a day & getting food down her. So far so good. Will drop her off at the vet Monday afternoon for a glucose test while I go to a medical appoint myself. Then hopefully someone will take time & tell me how to do the tests at home ( bought everything I should need at W/M yesterday ) & chart the results & figure out the amount of insulin. I have tried reading some of the things I've printed off from here, but I just can't really understand any of it! Feel like my brain just can process what I'm reading. I don't suppose anyone has published a "Diabetes for Dummies" book yet, because that's what I feel I need right now...........

Well, we have but it’s in various stickys.

I might have missed it but what insulin did they send you home with? I only saw a reference to “the pet version” and that could be a few different types such as Caninsulin, PZ, etc. I hope they have you giving insulin because as sick as she’s been, no insulin can mean trouble for her.

Sending her more healing light.

 

[Las]

So sorry about the diagnosis. Yes many on here use human meters and that's fine. The numbers will just run a bit lower. I use the alpha track pretty meter, but to keep the cost down I use freestyle insulinx strips with it which I buy cheap on eBay. Either way is fine.

She will no longer be able to eat that dry food. Is about 35-40% carb... It's like feeding her donuts. She needs a low carb wet food such as fancy feast classic or Friskies pate. There is a food chart in my signature showing the carb contents. Pick foods under 10 percent carb (under 7 is even better).

Testing is intimidating but once you have been doing it a couple weeks the capillaries start to grow and it is much easier. I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.

Excellent video, thanks for the link!

 

[Las]

Welcome Las and Sierra. You have come to the right place for information and support to learn about effective diabetic care for Sierra. Not every cat exhibits the same symptoms of diabetes onset. Many just drink and pee excessively and are ravenous. Others are more dramatic and are hospitalized with more severe symptoms. The most important thing here is what happened and is happening with Sierra and your plans for treatment.

Many of us use human meters because of meter and strip price and availability. The ReliOn Prime from Walmart is about $9 and 50 strips about $9 (100 for $18). Lancets are very inexpensive and you do not necessarily need a lancing device, many of us just use the small lancet freehand to make the tiny prick to get the blood sample.

There are different insulins that can be used for a cat ranging in price and effect. The least expensive insulins (Novolin and Vetsulin) are harsher, faster acting and don't last in the body as long, and possibly have less effectiveness with regulating a cat's blood sugar. There is a specific cat insulin: Prozinc which works well for many cats, it's an "in & out" insulin but is generally safer and more effective than the previous two. Then there are what is called "depot" insulins like Lantus & Basaglar (which is is biologically similar to Lantus) that are glargine insulins and Levemir (detemir) which are used for humans also. These insulins are gentler, longer lasting and have been proven to be very effective with regulation of blood sugar levels. However, they are more expensive and we usually refer members using them to the fact that they can buy them from a pharmacy in Canada (with a prescription) for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost here in the U.S.

You can read about them all in the individual Insulin Support Group forums:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/caninsulin-vetsulin-and-n-nph.19/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/lantus-basaglar-glargine-and-levemir-detemir.9/

Diet is absolutely important, and as JanetNJ informed you the dry is high in carbs and not the best option for a 'sugar cat'. It would be best to feed Sierra a low carbohydrate wet food diet to help lower blood sugar levels and with testing and insulin therapy regulate the blood sugar and hopefully into remission.

You can post more questions and concerns in the Main Health forum HERE so that more members will see and can respond. This Introduction forum is only the welcome mat and not as heavily monitored.

Thank you! Yes I went to our W/M store yesterday before going to the vet & I surprised how "picked over" that area of the pharmacy was ( there must be a lot of diabetic people & pets here where I live!!! ). I got the only regular Relion test meter ( they one you suggested above ) on the shelf. They had 3 of the "talking " ones but I figured the basic one was best to learn with. The only lancets they had where 26 & 30 & I got a box of each ( since I wasn't sure what would be best for a cats ear ). And got a box of 100 test strips & a lancing pen ( but probably will do like you & Janet said "free-hand" instead ). I asked the pharmacy tech if I needed the liquid ( which wasn't on the shelf ) & she said the meter should be ready to go. But when I was looking thru the booklet it said to either call a 800# ( but they where already closed for the evening ) or go online & Relion will send a free bottle. Will probably call on Sunday ( their hours are 7AM-7PM Central time 7 days a week ). My vet is using Vetsulin right now & I don't know if he will keep her on that or not. The main issue is that her liver enzymes where high last Sat & they did another Chem-Panel yesterday & those levels where still high. So she has little to no appetite ( though she's been on Reglan & Ranitidine for her tummy for 3 weeks now. The only thing that helped stimulate her appetite at all was Cyproheptadine but diabetics are not suppose to take it! ( And we didn't know she was diabetic at that time! ) I was hand feeding her & getting liquids down by mouth for 2 weeks before finally calling vet & letting them know that I needed to bring her in on 9/6/19. I weighed her that day & she weighted 7.2 oz. & when I brought her home yesterday she weighed 6.7 oz., so she needs food/ calories to get some weight back on her. Hopefully Monday when I go to pick her up ( after her blood sugar check ) I'll be able to see my vet & figure out how to do that while supporting her liver & dealing with the diabetes!

 

[Las]

One thing we say here over and over and over is “Every Cat is Different” (ECID). So don’t base Sierra’s condition now or her need to be in the hospital on any other cat on this board. For example, my Gracie showed signs of diabetes and I immediately got her in and started her on insulin. She was never ill. But others don’t know their cat even has diabetes until the cat has diabetic ketoacidosis (DKA) and ends up in the hospital for an extended time, some needing feeding tubes.

Diabetes is a very, very treatable condition. I would be asking the vet why she needs to be in the hospital and can you treat her at home. Does she have blood or urine ketones? Are her electrolytes off in her blood chemistries or have they mentioned that she has DKA?

Obviously, you can care for her diabetic needs at home. If she needs fluids, you can give those at home much cheaper than what it’s costing her to be in the hospital. How high are her liver enzymes? If you can post her labs, I’d be happy to look at them for you. There are treatments for liver issues that you can do at home depending on what the issue is and how high her liver enzymes are. You can give her meds for nausea at home. We see it quite often here and my guess is he might not be giving her any nausea meds but is giving appetite stimulants and who wants to eat if their nauseous? I have never understood why so many vets throw appy stimulants at a kitty without first addressing nausea and if she has some liver inflammation, she might be nauseous. If she potentially has triaditis or cholangiohepatitis (not uncommon in diabetics), you can likely treat that at home as well if you have the time (I understand your plate is full with lots of pets).

Thank-you also for your reply. Will try to make the "catch-up" as short as possible! We had a new kitten show-up on 7/6/19. I quarantined her for 2 weeks ( no URI's or anything else, that I could see ). But she had ringworm! Hubby was the 1st to come down with it ( on his inner/upper arms ). I started treating him & told him to be careful in any contact with our cats. Well you know men they never hear us when we try to give them any "medical advice" & before you know it I had 10 adult cats ( some only a small place or two, but Sierra had it on both of her ears, inside & out & one kitty that had a skin allergy & many "bald spots" got it on her tummy & sides ) + the kitten & I was having to bath her twice a week & keep her away from everyone else! ( We have 24 rescued kitties & 3 rescued birds so I already had/have my hands full! ) I had to quarantine Tiffany ( the one with it all over her belly & sides ) then when she was getting better Sierra started having issues with it on both of her ears ( so I also had to quarantine her ) & doctor her. We thought that the medication/ treatment had messed up her tummy so that's why she was started on Reglan & Ranitidine. She was getting better & the day I was planning on releasing her back into our household she started running a fever. Since I have so many kitties ( all rescued & all but the new kitten are "fixed" ) my vet allows me to keep injectable meds on hand ( because as we all know if anything is going to happen it's going to be late at night, on a weekend or holiday or when you can't get ahold of a vet at all ). So when I called he said to give her an injection of Baytril which I did. The next day ( & after ) there was no fever at all, but she just got to where she would eat less & less on her own & I started to have to supplement more. And things just slowly got worse. So we just don't know what exactly what caused what, all we know is that when they did the Chem-panel on 9/7/19 her sugar was high & so where her liver enzymes. And due to feeling that I couldn't add this to my plate ( still dealing with ringworm, but hopefully on the down hill slide, if no one else comes down with it in the mean time ) & had 4 kitties that all came down with an ear infection several days apart. So sometimes I'm not sure if I'm coming or going around here. And why my brain is so fatigued that I was afraid that I'd not be able to give her the "close" care she'd need. But she's home now, I am working on nutrition ( low carb canned ) & am just going to have to just take it one day at a time ( while still doing everything else that I do everyday anyway ).....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I might have missed it but what insulin did they send you home with? I only saw a reference to “the pet version” and that could be a few different types such as Caninsulin, PZ, etc. I hope they have you giving insulin because as sick as she’s been, no insulin can mean trouble for her.

Sending her more healing light.[/QUOTE]

Didn't sent any home as yet. They are giving her Vetsulin. The shot(s) they gave her last Monday lasted till Wed AM. The shot Wed AM lasted till Friday AM ( tested 550 ) & when I went out Friday evening to bring her home the 3:30PM test had showed her at 30! I told the vet that I wasn't comfortable giving any insulin at home till I was able to do her glucose tests myself ( said they would teach me on Monday! ) & can understand how that dictates as to how much insulin to give & how often. Like I said I don't think they even tried to hand feed her at all, just left canned food & water in her cage. She might have ate a little, but it was very little! I weighed her on 9/6/19 & she weighed 7 lbs 2 oz. yesterday when I brought her home she was at 6 lbs. 7 ozs. Her poor lower back feels so boney & I know that she needs food/calories for her whole over all health. So this weekend I am focusing on offering her some canned & let her eat what she will & then syringe feed. One of my problems in trying to get Sierra on a set schedual is that I suffer with chronic insomnia & my daily schedule is going to bed at 5AM & getting up at 1PM. I've fought this for over 30 years & my health just kept going down hill. So my Dr. & a few "real" friends (that actually cared about me ) said that I needed to let my body decide/dictate what schedule it needed to be on & then to do that. I got a lot of flack from "so-called" friends ( come to find out all I was to them was their doormat for anything they wanted ). But when my health totally broke I had no choice but to do what I needed to do so I could care for my invalid Mother & our furry & feathery "kids" ( we have no human kids ). I told my vet last week that I was going to need help/direction on how to do this so Sierra & I can survive this ordeal. Because I have 23 other rescued kitties & 3 birds that I care for ( alone ) 24/7/365. When I was younger I was able to do a lot more, but now I have to be careful not to over do it ( esp. stress wise & this Summer has been horrible that way, even before this diagnosis ). So if anyone here can give advice as to how you divide your "waking hours" ( no matter if you are an AM or PM person ) & caring for your diabetic kitty I'd greatly appreciate that. Basically if it all has to fit into a 12 hour period, my 12 hours would need to start at 2 PM thru 2AM ( or a bit later since I don't go to bed till 5AM anyway & get up at around 1PM ). Vet said to get an accurate ( or beginning of the day ) reading it has to be on a 12 hour "fast" with no food during that 12 hours. Is that correct??

 

[Idjit's mom]

I asked the pharmacy tech if I needed the liquid ( which wasn't on the shelf ) & she said the meter should be ready to go. But when I was looking thru the booklet it said to either call a 800# ( but they where already closed for the evening ) or go online & Relion will send a free bottle. Will probably call on Sunday ( their hours are 7AM-7PM Central time 7 days a week )

You can call for the control solution. I did and to be honest I have not used it more than once, as the readings we get are consistent. I don't know how many of the veteran members actually use the control solutions often, or consistently.

My vet is using Vetsulin right now & I don't know if he will keep her on that or not

You can read about Vetsulin HERE. Going forward, if Sierra is going to continue to need insulin therapy, I hope you will consider one of the depot insulins: Lantus, Basaglar or Levemir. They are longer lasting, gentler and are very effective in treating feline diabetes. They are more expensive, however, and many members get them from Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost. We can provide info on that if the issue arises.

In your response to @Marje and Gracie and I know she will reply. She's a long time, very experienced and knowledgeable member who can and will advise you ably. There are others with knowledge and experience that can help.

Vet said to get an accurate ( or beginning of the day ) reading it has to be on a 12 hour "fast" with no food during that 12 hours. Is that correct??

Could be the vet is mixing up doing a curve, testing every 2 hours for a 12 hour period, and getting an accurate pre-test BG reading. Usually a new member is encouraged to remove food 2 hours before the morning pre-shot test and the evening pre-shot test to make sure those 2 tests are not food influenced. That will be your "accurate" reading. Then regular feeding during the rest of the 12 hour cycle. You would not want to deny food and those badly needed calories for 12 hours.

Just in my opinion, Las, you will find accurate information that you can rely on from the experienced members here on FDMB. Not all vets are well educated or experienced with feline diabetes, and that recommendation about no food for 12 hours is case in point. Yes, you need vet help and care with treating other conditions and to get Rx for insulin, but it also appears that Sierra wasn't assist fed at the vet, which she seemed to need, and further added to the problems she had. What else can't/won't they do or don't know?

I am not one of the "experienced and knowledgeable" I wish I was. But I have read so many threads and posts, followed along on so many diabetic kitty stories (also dealing with other conditions or diseases) and observed informed, calm and supportive advice that saved kitties lives and improved conditions and situations.

I will continue to hope for the best for both Sierra and for you as you work to meet this new challenge.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

They are giving her Vetsulin. The shot(s) they gave her last Monday lasted till Wed AM

There are no insulin shots that will last that long. Vetsulin can be dosed every 8-12 hours; it’s a very short acting insulin. So they aren’t doing her any good if they are giving her one shot every few days. Are you sure you didn’t potentially confuse the insulin with another sustained release drug like buprenorphine for pain?

Vet said to get an accurate ( or beginning of the day ) reading it has to be on a 12 hour "fast" with no food during that 12 hours. Is that correct??

That is incredibly incorrect. Typically, you don’t want to feed the last couple of hours before you do the preshot test (unless the BG is low) so the test isn’t food influenced but most here are feeding minimeals to their cats at least from preshot through six hours after the shot. When giving Vetsulin, it’s important to test, then feed, allow the food time to bring the BG up (1/2 hour-1 hour) and then shoot. Because it’s a fast-acting insulin, you want food on board before shooting. This is different than the long lasting insulins like Prozinc, Lantus, and Levemir where food doesn’t have to be on board before you shoot; it can be given at the same time as the shot.

Members here shoot on 12 hours schedules all around the clock. Some shoot on a 6 am/6 pm schedule, some 12/12, it varies according to their lifestyles and needs.

You might want to get some Hill’s prescription a/d from the vet to get extra calories into your baby. It’s easy to syringe as well. I would try to get 1.5 times her normal calories in her.

Cyproheptadine but diabetics are not suppose to take it!

Not sure who told you this but diabetic cats in this forum have been given this as long as we’ve been here (9.5 years). What is more important is that your vet has given you cerenia and ondansetron because Sierra is not going to want to eat without controlling nausea. Giving an appetite stimulant if the cat is nauseous is really not the best way to get them to eat. Also, I would talk to your vet about giving her milk thistle for liver support. I use Herbsmith powder and like it very much. You can mix it in the food.

My concern for Sierra is that with any potential infection, relatively high BG numbers, and not eating, she is at high risk for developing ketones and diabetic ketoacidosis. That means it’s really important that you learn to test and get insulin started at home every 12 hours. I’d also get some urine ketone strips at WM, if you haven’t already, and test her urine every single day following the instructions on the bottle. If you see trace ketones developing, please post here immediately and if no one responds, you should call the vet. Ketones can develop quickly and full blown DKA can come on really, really fast

 

[Las]

There are no insulin shots that will last that long. Vetsulin can be dosed every 8-12 hours; it’s a very short acting insulin. So they aren’t doing her any good if they are giving her one shot every few days. Are you sure you didn’t potentially confuse the insulin with another sustained release drug like buprenorphine for pain?


That is incredibly incorrect. Typically, you don’t want to feed the last couple of hours before you do the preshot test (unless the BG is low) so the test isn’t food influenced but most here are feeding minimeals to their cats at least from preshot through six hours after the shot. When giving Vetsulin, it’s important to test, then feed, allow the food time to bring the BG up (1/2 hour-1 hour) and then shoot. Because it’s a fast-acting insulin, you want food on board before shooting. This is different than the long lasting insulins like Prozinc, Lantus, and Levemir where food doesn’t have to be on board before you shoot; it can be given at the same time as the shot.

Members here shoot on 12 hours schedules all around the clock. Some shoot on a 6 am/6 pm schedule, some 12/12, it varies according to their lifestyles and needs.

You might want to get some Hill’s prescription a/d from the vet to get extra calories into your baby. It’s easy to syringe as well. I would try to get 1.5 times her normal calories in her.


Not sure who told you this but diabetic cats in this forum have been given this as long as we’ve been here (9.5 years). What is more important is that your vet has given you cerenia and ondansetron because Sierra is not going to want to eat without controlling nausea. Giving an appetite stimulant if the cat is nauseous is really not the best way to get them to eat. Also, I would talk to your vet about giving her milk thistle for liver support. I use Herbsmith powder and like it very much. You can mix it in the food.

My concern for Sierra is that with any potential infection, relatively high BG numbers, and not eating, she is at high risk for developing ketones and diabetic ketoacidosis. That means it’s really important that you learn to test and get insulin started at home every 12 hours. I’d also get some urine ketone strips at WM, if you haven’t already, and test her urine every single day following the instructions on the bottle. If you see trace ketones developing, please post here immediately and if no one responds, you should call the vet. Ketones can develop quickly and full blown DKA can come on really, really fast

The Reglan is for nausea. I am not sure what all she was being given while at the clinic. My vet has type II diabetes himself & has been in practice for at least 50 years, so I hope he knows what he's doing! The pill he has her on for her liver is called Denamarin by the NutraMax Veterinary Company. The Cypro info was from The Pill Book.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

The Reglan is for nausea. I am not sure what all she was being given while at the clinic. My vet has type II diabetes himself & has been in practice for at least 50 years, so I hope he knows what he's doing! The pill he has her on for her liver is called Denamarin by the NutraMax Veterinary Company. The Cypro info was from The Pill Book.

Reglan is primarily used for motility and is very old school and not the best choice for nausea in cats.

Diabetic cats and human diabetics are not the same. Cats have very different metabolism than humans. I’m not trying to criticize your vet but I would imagine he doesn’t see the number of diabetic cats that we do here; we live it 24/7. I will assure you that shooting Vetsulin once every three days is not helping her diabetes based on what you’ve told us about her numbers. Denamarin is milk thistle and I’ve used it but I find the Herbsmith much easier to use. And it’s very effective.

The Pill Book is for humans, not cats. Again, we’ve had many, many members use cypro in their diabetic cats with no issues.