New and need shooting help

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Keegancat

Member Since 2019
Im very new to this..my cat is 16 and has confusing numbers for me. I started his chart and I test as often as I can but I need help figuring all this out. Should I shoot with the recent low numbers? He’s had a lot of diarrhea and that worries me but he’s eating well. I changed his diet about three weeks before starting insulin. I also don’t really know how to use this forum so I hope this works! https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QKOH1_6hz3gGOUAw15c301XMOLJLbzbd0EYQOW38KU8
 
Hello and welcome!

Great job testing! And, you're right-- those numbers are quite low for a newcomer to FD. We generally don't recommend shooting numbers like those you are seeing without more data, except under special circumstances such as a recent DKA. Looks like the food change has probably had a big impact-- your kitty will likely still need some insulin support, but you're going to have to be pretty cautious in administering it. So happy you were testing!

What insulin are you using? And what kind of meter-- pet (e.g. AlphaTrak) or human?
 
Welcome! Keegan's number looks really good, probably because of the food change.

The sticky posts at the top of each forum are very helpful. There's a ton of info and you are going to feel overwhelmed. That's OK, people are here to help. But in order to help, you'll have to provide more info about Keegan. The spreadsheet is a great start! There are several kinds of insulin and they work differently. Unless

Here are my recommendations to get started:

Set up a signature

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/ I'm not sure why that post is not a sticky. This will give everyone valuable info about Keegan, his medications, food. Add the link to the spreadsheet to your signature so it's available in all your posts.

Read the stickies in the forum for the type of insulin you are using

Since each insulin works differently, there are slightly different procedures for each one that affect dosing and testing. The insulin type also goes into the signature so that we can see it on all your posts. It's unfortunate that the posts in each insulin group don't have same naming scheme, but there are into to <insulin type> posts in each one that have a lot of great info. They are long posts.

Dosing

There's not a lot of data in your spreadsheet yet, so the advice is to go slow, start low. Giving too much insulin can send BG levels to dangerously low numbers. High BG makes your kitty not feel well, but is not as dangerous. I would be worried about sending Keegan's BG levels into dangerously low levels. Hence my recommendation is:

- You must measure BG before giving insulin
- No food for 2 hours prior to feeding/insulin time
- DO NOT give any insulin if the reading is below 200

This should keep Keegan safe. Once you provide more information and have a few twice daily preshot BG numbers, people will be able to provide dosing advice. But since his numbers are already low, ie not in the yellow/read area, be very conservative.
 
Gypsy's Parent said:
Welcome! Keegan's number looks really good, probably because of the food change.

The sticky posts at the top of each forum are very helpful. There's a ton of info and you are going to feel overwhelmed. That's OK, people are here to help. But in order to help, you'll have to provide more info about Keegan. The spreadsheet is a great start! There are several kinds of insulin and they work differently. Unless

Here are my recommendations to get started:

Set up a signature

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/editing-your-signature-profile-and-preferences.130340/ I'm not sure why that post is not a sticky. This will give everyone valuable info about Keegan, his medications, food. Add the link to the spreadsheet to your signature so it's available in all your posts.

Read the stickies in the forum for the type of insulin you are using

Since each insulin works differently, there are slightly different procedures for each one that affect dosing and testing. The insulin type also goes into the signature so that we can see it on all your posts. It's unfortunate that the posts in each insulin group don't have same naming scheme, but there are into to <insulin type> posts in each one that have a lot of great info. They are long posts.

Dosing

There's not a lot of data in your spreadsheet yet, so the advice is to go slow, start low. Giving too much insulin can send BG levels to dangerously low numbers. High BG makes your kitty not feel well, but is not as dangerous. I would be worried about sending Keegan's BG levels into dangerously low levels. Hence my recommendation is:

- You must measure BG before giving insulin
- No food for 2 hours prior to feeding/insulin time
- DO NOT give any insulin if the reading is below 200

This should keep Keegan safe. Once you provide more information and have a few twice daily preshot BG numbers, people will be able to provide dosing advice. But since his numbers are already low, ie not in the yellow/read area, be very conservative.
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I will reread this and do all of the above but a quick question would be...his reading just now was 207. Should I hold off and not shoot?
 
Can you please tell us what insulin you are giving and what meter you are using? Can't answer your question without that info. :)
 
Nan & Amber said:
Hello and welcome!

Great job testing! And, you're right-- those numbers are quite low for a newcomer to FD. We generally don't recommend shooting numbers like those you are seeing without more data, except under special circumstances such as a recent DKA. Looks like the food change has probably had a big impact-- your kitty will likely still need some insulin support, but you're going to have to be pretty cautious in administering it. So happy you were testing!

What insulin are you using? And what kind of meter-- pet (e.g. AlphaTrak) or human?
Click to expand...
Thank you! Basaglar and a ReliOn prime.
 
Can you test at all tonight? At least a before bed test which will tell you whether Keegan's BG is dropping or not and if it is dropping perhaps a bit more testing.

You are really at the borderline and ultimately the choice is yours. I am a bit concerned that the 0.5u dose is too high given the low pre-shot this AM however, it's hard to know because there was no pre-shot test last night.

You don't have much data yet so while I think you could safely give 0.25u I don't think I'd chance the 0.5u.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Can you test at all tonight? At least a before bed test which will tell you whether Keegan's BG is dropping or not and if it is dropping perhaps a bit more testing.

You are really at the borderline and ultimately the choice is yours. I am a bit concerned that the 0.5u dose is too high given the low pre-shot this AM however, it's hard to know because there was no pre-shot test last night.

You don't have much data yet so while I think you could safely give 0.25u I don't think I'd chance the 0.5u.
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So maybe test him before bed to get a number but don’t shoot at all? Sorry I’m new to this a figuring it out. Im thinking a .25 is tricky to get, the .5 is tricky. It’s crazy because my vet prescribed me 2u twice a day!
 
Keegancat said:
So maybe test him before bed to get a number but don’t shoot at all? Sorry I’m new to this a figuring it out. Im thinking a .25 is tricky to get, the .5 is tricky. It’s crazy because my vet prescribed me 2u twice a day!
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I feel like it’s safer not to because too low I’m told is more dangerous then too high, I i don’t suspect it’ll go too high.
 
It appears you skipped this AM and BG is not terribly high tonight which makes me think even 0.5u is too high. I'd be torn as to what to do too and when torn take the safest choice and skip. A 2u dose sends shivers down my spine. :nailbiting: Keegan will get back on track soon enough.

Did you change diet recently?
 
Yes I didn’t shoot this am because of his numbers and during the night he had a lot of diarrhea and that worries me, although I don’t know if they are related, low numbers and diarrhea..
The diet change was about three weeks before insulin and average numbers were 200-350 but I didn’t test a lot, I’m trying to be better.
 
If Keegan was on a dry high carb food, it would take a bit for the diet change to really show it's effect although 3 week seems a bit long.

The diarrhea could be influencing BG numbers. Try to get as much fluid as you can into Keegan by adding water to the wet food. If the diarrhea persists a trip to the vet would be a good idea. Low numbers wouldn't cause diarrhea.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
If Keegan was on a dry high carb food, it would take a bit for the diet change to really show it's effect although 3 week seems a bit long.

The diarrhea could be influencing BG numbers. Try to get as much fluid as you can into Keegan by adding water to the wet food. If the diarrhea persists a trip to the vet would be a good idea. Low numbers wouldn't cause diarrhea.
Click to expand...
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
If Keegan was on a dry high carb food, it would take a bit for the diet change to really show it's effect although 3 week seems a bit long.

The diarrhea could be influencing BG numbers. Try to get as much fluid as you can into Keegan by adding water to the wet food. If the diarrhea persists a trip to the vet would be a good idea. Low numbers wouldn't cause diarrhea.
Click to expand...

With the pumpkin mixed into his food his diarrheal has gotten better. He is still not using his box to poop only pee, any advice? Also, could I get some help with shooting advice? His shooting chart link is in my signature, I haven’t shot in days and was wondering if I’m doing the right thing?
 
While Keegan's BG is looking very good, it looks like he could still use a very small dose of insulin to pull down those slightly higher BGs. Normal BG on a human meter is 50 to 120. Ideally though, you want to get BG sitting in the lower rather than upper normal range for a good strong remission. We aim to get BG sitting between 50 and 80 without insulin for the most part although the odd low blue reading is acceptable. It definitely appears that Keegan is very close to remission and I would suggest you try a tiny dose of insulin to hopefully get those blue pre-shot numbers down and get Keegan over that last little hump.

It's possible to draw up doses of 0.10u by using the very first line on the syringe barrel and lining up the black stopper of the plunger on that line.

A drop dose is accomplished by pushing the syringe plunger in as tightly as possible, inserting the needle into the pen/vial while continuing to tightly hold the plunger in, invert the pen/vial so the needle is at the bottom and then let go of the plunger. It sucks a tiny drop of insulin into the needle but you won't actually see any insulin in the barrel. It helps to practice this technique with some coloured water to ensure you are getting enough pressure to actually draw up some fluid.

If you would like to try a smaller dose to see if that helps get those numbers down I'd also suggest you post over on the Lantus forum to get some guidance to do so safely.

BG often goes lower at night than during the day so if giving insulin at night, it is important to always get a +2 BG test and another before bed to ensure BG doesn't drop too low at night. If BG is stable or lower at +2, it often foretells of an active cycle ahead and therefore you need to retest to ensure BG doesn't drop too low.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
While Keegan's BG is looking very good, it looks like he could still use a very small dose of insulin to pull down those slightly higher BGs. Normal BG on a human meter is 50 to 120. Ideally though, you want to get BG sitting in the lower rather than upper normal range for a good strong remission. We aim to get BG sitting between 50 and 80 without insulin for the most part although the odd low blue reading is acceptable. It definitely appears that Keegan is very close to remission and I would suggest you try a tiny dose of insulin to hopefully get those blue pre-shot numbers down and get Keegan over that last little hump.

It's possible to draw up doses of 0.10u by using the very first line on the syringe barrel and lining up the black stopper of the plunger on that line.

A drop dose is accomplished by pushing the syringe plunger in as tightly as possible, inserting the needle into the pen/vial while continuing to tightly hold the plunger in, invert the pen/vial so the needle is at the bottom and then let go of the plunger. It sucks a tiny drop of insulin into the needle but you won't actually see any insulin in the barrel. It helps to practice this technique with some coloured water to ensure you are getting enough pressure to actually draw up some fluid.

If you would like to try a smaller dose to see if that helps get those numbers down I'd also suggest you post over on the Lantus forum to get some guidance to do so safely.

BG often goes lower at night than during the day so if giving insulin at night, it is important to always get a +2 BG test and another before bed to ensure BG doesn't drop too low at night. If BG is stable or lower at +2, it often foretells of an active cycle ahead and therefore you need to retest to ensure BG doesn't drop too low.
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Thank you! I will try the .10 u dose and see what that does. Do people ever shoot once a day or is it always twice? Knowing the goal numbers is helpful.
 
There are times when shooting once daily works but usually it's better to be dosing twice daily and consistently. My concern is that because Keegan's diabetic journey has been quite short, you've not had the opportunity to gradually reduce your shooting threshold. While it is possible to shoot lower pre-shots, it must be done carefully and monitoring is key. I strongly encourage you to seek some guidance on the Lantus forum just for safety sake. Mid cycle and night testing are key to keeping Keegan safe.
 
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