Littles numbers wonky

[Lisa and little]

hey guys. Checking in and maybe you can advise. I recently went up slowly to 1.75 and am noticing higher numbers mid day. It seems no matter what dose from 1.6 on up I can’t seem to get any greens. I know too much insulin can have the same effect of rising numbers like too little can. Any thoughts on where I should go from here?

 

[Justin & Sebastian]

I know too much insulin can have the same effect of rising numbers like too little can.

I had heard this too but was recently told it isn't actually a thing. What is happening when people say this is when they're getting closer to the right dose which results in lower dips and more bounces. Sometimes the dip/bounce can happy pretty quickly and if you don't have enough readings it'll just look like the numbers are going up because you're only reading the bounces.

It's possible Little is going lower at night and then bouncing during the day. You've got a string of blues at AMPS which is lower than previous readings and those might be taken "on the way up". Any chance you can get PM +10 or +11 readings? That'll give you a better idea of which way Little is heading and what happened overnight.

 

[Lisa and little]

Thank you Justin for that advice. I will try to get a+10 or 11. That totally makes sense. Anyone have any thoughts on this ?... Her 30 day BG average is 201 my vet says that is acceptable for a long term/ lifetime diabetic cat. Any thoughts on that comment? Clinically she’s great but I’d like to see better numbers juts not sure what to do next to get there.

 

[Justin & Sebastian]

Her 30 day BG average is 201 my vet says that is acceptable for a long term/ lifetime diabetic cat. Any thoughts on that comment? Clinically she’s great but I’d like to see better numbers juts not sure what to do next to get there.

Sebastian was diagnosed in 2013. He's been diabetic for 6 years now. I didn't discover this website until this year. So for 5 years he was very poorly regulated. I'd do a curve once a year, get numbers in the 200-300s, and the vet said that was okay. Even my current vet says 200 is okay. They're absolutely wrong. Clinically, he was fine. Right up until the point that he wasn't. He got pancreatitis in November of last year and almost died. He spent a week in the hospital, costing me $10k. Then I found this site, learned about what was really going on, and have been making steady progress since. It's absolutely possible to get below 200. We've done it. Not consistently yet because being untreated for so long has caused several other issues we've had to deal with. But we've overcome each one, largely due to the help and support of everyone here, and are slowly clawing our way back to a healthy state.

Bottom line, don't listen to the vets. The vast majority of them are terribly out of touch on modern feline diabetes research. They don't know the proper protocols or what is possible. They assume a diabetic cat has 1-2 years tops and write it off. But we can and will do better.

juts not sure what to do next to get there

And more to the point. Do you best to get as much data as you can. BG readings are a start but there are other things. Weight levels, activity and energy, appetite, behavior. Try to read all the stickied posts, they have a lot of good information. You'll probably need to re-read them a few times, I know I have. There's a lot of info there but it's all good. And it doesn't hurt to do a little outside research also. Don't ever be afraid to ask questions here. Most of us post daily, it's a community effort and every little bit of insight helps. Try to do as much as you can to improve your cat's situation. Whether that be improving the diet or whatever.

 

[Tina Marie (GA) and Jan]

Hi Lisa,
If you think of the numbers of a non diabetic cat, which are nearly always under 100, it makes no sense that a cat with diabetes would be fine with numbers twice that high. However, so very many vets say up to 250 is ok. Or that under 200 is ok. Vets often think of making life easier on people, instead of doing the best possible thing for the animal. The best thing for the cat, is to bring him or her as close as possible to normal blood glucose values.
Also, too much insulin will bring kitty too low. The only time too much looks like not enough, is when the BG goes way low and the human misses that reading, only noticing a bounce or rebound effect of higher numbers.
Little is a beauty!

 

[Sue and Luci]

Her 30 day BG average is 201 my vet says that is acceptable for a long term/ lifetime diabetic cat.

I can never hold my tongue when I hear what vets say to people. As Justin said, the vet is 100% wrong about that. Over 200 is NOT fine for your kitty. It's hard on their kidneys...and heaven only knows what else.

Please, as Justin recommended, try to get additional tests at different times...it's hard to get up at night, but I too am suspicious that there is some time that Little may be going much lower and those mid-day higher numbers could be an indicator of just that.

The only way to know is to get additional tests, fill in the blanks...and lets see what the SS has to show then.

 

[AliceMeowliss (GA)]

I think when I first really really started testing, it was almost too much. Almost. But not. Because now I can test somewhat less because I gathered so much data before, so I can more safely make some predictions about my cat. Testing is just more data, which is more knowledge, which is more power. You are not stuck and you do not need to expect subpar health to be the norm!


There *is* something called “feeding the curve” which you could also look into, if in fact there’s a low that you are missing that is causing bounces. You feed twice a day, according to your signature? Can snacks be given?

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Her 30 day BG average is 201 my vet says that is acceptable for a long term/ lifetime diabetic cat.

Not ideal for an average. You want to keep them under renal threshold as much as possible. The exact numbers depends on the cat and meter but is high blues/low yellows. My girl was a long term diabetic (acromegaly) and I tried to keep her max at 220-ish. Around 200 might be fine if the caregiver is not testing at all.

As for the numbers, can I ask why you are doing such tiny increases? Most cats respond better to 0.25 unit increases. It's been over 10 days since Little saw greens, I think you might have a bit of glucose toxicity setting in. In other words, her body is getitng used to higher numbers. Which dosing method are you following? Both TR and SLGS call for 0.25 unit increases.

As the others have said, missing night time tests just means you guess how low the dose is taking the cat. It is entirely possible all the lows are at night time. A before bed test is a really good one to get.

Here is the link to your last post here, for continuity and history: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/need-advice-7-8-19-12-cycles-on-1-5-reduction.216577/