BG 53 - gave karo syrup & 20% cat FF

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jill & Pansy Panini

Member Since 2019
I also posted in the lantus forum.

I have her FF 20% carb beef & gravy dinner, which she ate enthusiastically.

Tried rubbing some karo syrup on her gums. Not sure how much got in. She was alert and wiggly. Now after dinner and the excitement of the mark application, she is resting in her bed.

Any advice? How soon should I recheck her BG?

Thanks for your help,

Jill
 
She got no shoot, right? Test in 20 min from the time you gave the honey. Chances are good she won't go any lower since it's so long since shot time.

Did you take a second test to make sure the 53 was accurate?
 
FurBabiesMama said:
She was 53 before any insulin?
Click to expand...
Correct. And I won't be giving her insulin tonight. And shouldn't i leave out food all night?
JanetNJ said:
She got no shoot, right? Test in 20 min from the time you gave the honey. Chances are good she won't go any lower since it's so long since shot time.

Did you take a second test to make sure the 53 was accurate?
Click to expand...
Getting ready to do another test now.

thank you all for helping! I will post the results.
 
JanetNJ said:
She got no shoot, right? Test in 20 min from the time you gave the honey. Chances are good she won't go any lower since it's so long since shot time.

Did you take a second test to make sure the 53 was accurate?
Click to expand...
I didn't think to retest...took the number at face value. I'm a newbie to all of this...
Will test again...Getting supplies ready...
 
every so often you get a bad strip or for some reason it doesn't read right -- at the moment you just want to take care of what it says
 
Pansy Panini (great name) has a history of low numbers and no shots.
Did you switch to the low carb fancy feast pates after diagnosis?
Switching to a low carb food can make a big difference in overall numbers, as much as a drop of 100.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
That's a relief. I was worried something had happened.
Your kitty has earned a reduction in dose down to 0.25 units.
Click to expand...
I don't know what that means. She has been getting .5 units Lantus because this happened last week. Are you saying .25 units? That will be tough to gage!
Vet called and said shoot tomorrow if 250 or more in the morning.

I have been listening to the vet...who said .5 units as long as preshot BG was over 100. But the info on here says no shot of under 150 if you're a newbie.

So scary and confusing.
 
Jill, if the emergency is over, could you please remove the 911 icon on both of your threads? I'm so relieved Pansy is ok. :cat:
 
Jill & Pansy Panini said:
I don't know what that means. She has been getting .5 units Lantus because this happened last week. Are you saying .25 units? That will be tough to gage!
Vet called and said shoot tomorrow if 250 or more in the morning.

I have been listening to the vet...who said .5 units as long as preshot BG was over 100. But the info on here says no shot of under 150 if you're a newbie.

So scary and confusing.
Click to expand...

Yes you definitely need to take a reduction in dose after having had the BG drop to 53, otherwise you risk Pansy dropping really low again which is unsafe.
Yes, reduce the dose to 0.25 unit (1/4 unit) and you will have to eyeball it. Do you have a magnifying glass.?
If you are unsure if you can give the insulin or not in the morning, post and ask for help.
Things that will help you decide in the morning are....
is it over 200
can you be there to monitor the BG levels,
do you have plenty of higher carb foods at home,
do you have plenty of test strips.
Is Pansy eating well

Keep asking questions if you are not sure of anything. We are happy to help.
 
Last edited:
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Pansy Panini (great name) has a history of low numbers and no shots.
Did you switch to the low carb fancy feast pates after diagnosis?
Switching to a low carb food can make a big difference in overall numbers, as much as a drop of 100.
Click to expand...

Long story! Diagnosed on 6/19...BG high...500. Tried vetsulin, with gradual increases, numbers still high. Switched to Lantus on 7/17. increase from 1 to 2 to 3 units...BG readings at vet's stayed high. Changed vets...had glucose curve done on 7/26...high numbers per the vet, though I didn't see, I think 350 - 500. Directed to Dr. Lisa's website and advised to switch to low carb food, which I did. Took P in for BG (I was too scared to do) on 8/6 at 10 AM - which is 4 hours after shot. BG was 47. Get tech said this was low and she would talk to vet. Told P could hang out at the clinic or i could take her home and give her a meal. I took her home and feed her. Completely clueless. At 5PM, prior to her evening shot, a voice told me to test her BG. First time I did this successfully. It was 43...called vet, was told to go to the ER. Treated with dextrose and I fed her high carb food out of my hand (I had an emergency kit - I knew that much). BG went up to 171. Went home and checked BG at 11PM (96) and 3:00 AM (103). Left food out all night, also per ER vet. on 8/7, took readings all that day...declared in remission. On 8/8 I noticed P was drinking lots of water...got readings of 349 and 271. And on 8/9 AM, BG was 370. So we are starting again.

I think I need to enter this in the spreadsheet. I have a kindle which doesn't play nice with spreadsheet. I have to enter data with my phone. Not sure I can add lines.
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Yes you definitely need to take a reduction in dose after having had the BG drop to 53, otherwise you risk Pansy dropping really low again which is unsafe.
Yes, reduce the dose to 0.25 unit (1/4 unit) and you will have to eyeball it. Do you have a magnifying glass.?
If you are unsure if you can give the insulin or not in the morning, post and ask for help.
Things that will help you decide in the morning are....
is it over 150, - VET ADVISED NO SHOT IF UNDER 250 - but you guys are more knowledgeable - so if over 150, shoot with .25 units?
can you be there to monitor the BG levels, - I Work TOMORROW, so want to do safest thing while gone
do you have plenty of higher carb foods at home, - YES
do you have plenty of test strips. - YES but will order more
Is Pansy eating well - YES

Keep asking questions if you are not sure of anything. We are happy to help.
Click to expand...

Thank you!
 
If you are not going to be home to test during the cycle tomorrow and the numbers are not very high you may be better skipping. Best thing is to take the BG 1/2 hour before insulin is due and ask for guidance. Make sure your subject line says you need HELP to get attention
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
If you are not going to be home to test during the cycle tomorrow and the numbers are not very high you may be better skipping. Best thing is to take the BG 1/2 hour before insulin is due and ask for guidance. Make sure your subject line says you need HELP to get attention
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for the advice - thanks to all of you who responded. This is so stressful!
 
couple of things I use when eyeballing .25 (actually .75 the last couple of weeks) -- even with syringes with half unit markings it takes a fine touch

I got a bright light with LCDs, to illuminate the syringe from the side (so the light hits the syringe but not my eyes)
I got a pair of cheap reading glasses 3.25 power (you may find only 3.00s) from the Dollar Tree, put them both on since my eyes are possibly older than I am

pull a little more insulin into syringe than you want to wind up with, flick any bubble up to the top, then turn the syringe horizontal, carefully twist so the plunger creeps forward -- it helps if you turn the barrel of the syringe so the markings are at the side rather than straight below you, and tuck that plunger end halfway between the half unit mark and the zero mark -- you can see the line the plunger end forms, right between the marks

that's just what I did, you'll find the technique which works for you
 
Okay, two things stick out.
Jill & Pansy Panini said:
BG readings at vet's stayed high
Click to expand...
A lot of cats read much higher at the vet – which is another reason to home test.

Jill & Pansy Panini said:
Directed to Dr. Lisa's website and advised to switch to low carb food, which I did
Click to expand...
Switching to low carb food can dramatically change the dose needed.

It is much better to slowly go up the dosing scale than to fly down the dosing scale by the seat of your pants. Vets tend to increase 1 unit at a time. It is recommended here that increases be no more than 0.25 units at a time. Increasing the dose by a large amount means that you can very easily fly right past the correct dose for the cat – sometimes too much insulin looks like too little. The only way to know for sure is to go up slowly and home test.

Syringes with half unit markings can help. Make sure they are for U100 insulin (orange cap – Lantus is a U100 insulin) and not U40 (red cap – used for vetsulin).
 
Jill, thinking about the Preshot number. Because you are fairly new and only just swapped to Lantus from Vetsulin and have very little data I think your Preshot number should be 200 until you get a bit more data. I have changed the number to 200 in the previous post.
So in the morning the Preshot number should be 200 or above to give the insulin. Once you get more data it can be lowered.
 
Last edited:
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Jill, thinking about the Preshot number. Because you are fairly new and only just swapped to Lantus from Vetsulin and have very little data I think your Preshot number should be 200 until you get a bit more data. I have changed the number to 200 in the previous post.
So in the morning the Preshot number should be 200 or above to give the insulin. Once you get more data it can be lowered.
Click to expand...
Ok...thank you for the guidance!
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Okay, two things stick out.

A lot of cats read much higher at the vet – which is another reason to home test.


Switching to low carb food can dramatically change the dose needed.

It is much better to slowly go up the dosing scale than to fly down the dosing scale by the seat of your pants. Vets tend to increase 1 unit at a time. It is recommended here that increases be no more than 0.25 units at a time. Increasing the dose by a large amount means that you can very easily fly right past the correct dose for the cat – sometimes too much insulin looks like too little. The only way to know for sure is to go up slowly and home test.

Syringes with half unit markings can help. Make sure they are for U100 insulin (orange cap – Lantus is a U100 insulin) and not U40 (red cap – used for vetsulin).
Click to expand...
I learned about the difference low carb food can make after the hypoglycemic event. So now we're starting all over again with the insulin. Vet wanted to start at 1 but I suggested .5 after I posted here about a low preshot number and another forum member advised it.

I am amazed at the knowledge that is plentiful here but seems to be lacking with the vets.
I had 1/2 unit syringes (U100) in 29 gauge but lost that when I got 30 gauge needles. I guess I need to look again.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I am really freaked out and every bit of information helps.
 
Vets get very little diabetes training (think hours, not days — and that is for all animals).

Lantus dosing is based on the nadir (usually mid-cycle) and not the the preshot numbers. If you can start to get a few tests in during the day and evening or if you wake up during the night, that would help tremendously in figuring out the dosing.

If you are looking for dosing help in the morning, you can put a question mark in the title of the thread. Same place you found the 911.
 
check at Walmart, I'm using 3/10, 31 gauge, 8 mm U-100 syringes, their ReliOn brand, price around $12 for 100 -- doesn't say on the outside of the package but these DO have half unit markings -- they aren't always in stock so make sure you buy another box before you run out (DH has to go to two other WMs to find them for me, would have been several days before they restocked)
 
Bron and Sheba (GA) said:
Jill, thinking about the Preshot number. Because you are fairly new and only just swapped to Lantus from Vetsulin and have very little data I think your Preshot number should be 200 until you get a bit more data. I have changed the number to 200 in the previous post.
So in the morning the Preshot number should be 200 or above to give the insulin. Once you get more data it can be lowered.
Click to expand...
Should I leave high carb food out tonight? Or the usual 3% carb Fancy Feast?
 
yes, we recently switched to Lantus from Vetsulin, the two insulins take different handling in figuring out the dosing -- you learn to think in chunks of several days and the patterns you find, rather than reacting on a day to day fashion --
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
check at Walmart, I'm using 3/10, 31 gauge, 8 mm U-100 syringes, their ReliOn brand, price around $12 for 100 -- doesn't say on the outside of the package but these DO have half unit markings -- they aren't always in stock so make sure you buy another box before you run out (DH has to go to two other WMs to find them for me, would have been several days before they restocked)
Click to expand...
Oh...the 8 mm...the really short needles? I am used to the 12 mm needles. Pansy cried out when injected.with the 31 gauge shortie so I returned them. Now I have the 30 gauge, 3/10 cc, 12 mms needles...but no half units! Pansy seemed more comfortable with the 30 gauge vs the 29 gauge. Any improvement helps! I will see what Wal-Mart has. Thanks for the tip!
 
using the grab and roll towards his head technique, I almost never get a fur shot, usually he doesn't notice, or may make a chuffing sound, but rarely do I hear a yip or cry or plaintive meow -- one thing that helps is to make sure the pointiest end goes in first, rotate the syringe til you see the shiny glint off the needle, that put the bevel in the right place, seems to make a difference (same thing with a lancet which is also beveled)
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Vets get very little diabetes training (think hours, not days — and that is for all animals).

Lantus dosing is based on the nadir (usually mid-cycle) and not the the preshot numbers. If you can start to get a few tests in during the day and evening or if you wake up during the night, that would help tremendously in figuring out the dosing.

If you are looking for dosing help in the morning, you can put a question mark in the title of the thread. Same place you found the 911.
Click to expand...
Thanks! That makes sense. I was going to do more testing on Saturday. I sure feel sorry about all the poking I'm doing!
 
just tell yourself, you're saving a life -- those pokes may sting momentarily so luckily cats have forgiving natures, live in the moment not the past
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
couple of things I use when eyeballing .25 (actually .75 the last couple of weeks) -- even with syringes with half unit markings it takes a fine touch

I got a bright light with LCDs, to illuminate the syringe from the side (so the light hits the syringe but not my eyes)
I got a pair of cheap reading glasses 3.25 power (you may find only 3.00s) from the Dollar Tree, put them both on since my eyes are possibly older than I am

pull a little more insulin into syringe than you want to wind up with, flick any bubble up to the top, then turn the syringe horizontal, carefully twist so the plunger creeps forward -- it helps if you turn the barrel of the syringe so the markings are at the side rather than straight below you, and tuck that plunger end halfway between the half unit mark and the zero mark -- you can see the line the plunger end forms, right between the marks

that's just what I did, you'll find the technique which works for you
Click to expand...
Oh my! I am looking at a syringe and trying to gauge .25 units when there are only 1 unit increments. You're amazing to figure this out! I really need to find syringes with half unit marks.
 
the other possibility -- especially if you have a Harbor Freight store in the vicinity -- is to buy a pair of digital calipers and use them as a guide to measure the small doses

there's a video and description of how to use them on here .. let me see if I can find the link -- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/

the shorter ones are easier to use , DH got me an 8 incher which is more awkward, my Mark I eyeballs with magnification work better for me at this point
 
CandyH and Catcat said:
the other possibility -- especially if you have a Harbor Freight store in the vicinity -- is to buy a pair of digital calipers and use them as a guide to measure the small doses

there's a video and description of how to use them on here .. let me see if I can find the link -- http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dosing-with-calipers-updated-w-videos.79851/

the shorter ones are easier to use , DH got me an 8 incher which is more awkward, my Mark I eyeballs with magnification work better for me at this point
Click to expand...
Wow...difficult to understand...doing .25 is gonna be tough.

What about 1 shot per day instead of 2?
 
I have confidence you will do it fine -- it takes time, and patience which I don't have much of, it's a step by step process but with Lantus you also watch where you've been to see where you need to go -- everyone on the Lantus forum is dealing with some of the same situations and you get a lot of help and encouragement
 
Pansy was at 53 at 5 PM and treated with high carb food and karo syrup
181 at 6:45
154 at 9:30

Should I leave out low carb or high carb food? Or...?
 
Since Pansy did not have a shot tonight, 5:30pm is considered +12 (12 hours since insulin)
+12 5:30pm 53
+13.75 6:45 181
+16.5 9:30 154

What you are seeing is the high carb gravy and karo wearing off.
Give a LC snack now, then leave some LC food out for her when you go to bed. Test at bedtime, just to be on the safe side.
If you get up during the night, take another test. It all helps fill in the blanks.

I wish it were 9:30 here. It's 1:15 for me. You did great tonight. It's a steep learning curve.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Since Pansy did not have a shot tonight, 5:30pm is considered +12 (12 hours since insulin)
+12 5:30pm 53
+13.75 6:45 181
+16.5 9:30 154

What you are seeing is the high carb gravy and karo wearing off.
Give a LC snack now, then leave some LC food out for her when you go to bed. Test at bedtime, just to be on the safe side.
If you get up during the night, take another test. It all helps fill in the blanks.

I wish it were 9:30 here. It's 1:15 for me. You did great tonight. It's a steep learning curve.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the support and kind words - she had some LC food and there's more out for her. I am so tired...it's 10:20 now. I just now had some fruit for dinner. She's next to me and I hope the fruit sugar gets to her by osmosis or something.
I am wondering if she plummeted today because I fed her FF that was 0% and 1% carbs. Yesterday she had FF and friskies which are 3 and 4% carbs.
I
 
I don't think so. Both are considered low carb. Tomorrow morning, her numbers may be sky high. It's called a bounce. It's the body's response to numbers it is not used to. Do ask for guidance.
  • Bouncing - Bouncing is simply a natural reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "Too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BGs in the 200's, 300's, or higher for a long time, then even a BG that drops to 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the blood glucose drops too low and/or too fast.The pancreas, then the liver, release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream to save the cat from going hypoglycemic from a perceived low. The action is often referred to as "liver panic" or "panicky liver". *Usually*, a bounce will clear kitty's system within 3 days (6 cycles).
Fruit is awfully healthy. I would have done chocolate for dinner after all of this. :rolleyes:
 
I'm heading off to bed now. Holler if you need to. There are members on the west coast and some in Australia who will be up. G'night.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top