7/20 Chloe AM +12 93 did not shoot +14 37 +14.5 160 + 15 152 +23 218 PM 214

Randi & Max (GA)

Randi & Max (GA)

Member Since 2009
Yesterday's Condo

Well last night was a crazy riide when Chloe dropped to 24. I am already half hour past my usual time.
Earned a reduction to .25 but not sure if U should shoot.
Yes I have a lot of supplies although Chloe is not cooperative with the testings. She has figured it out.
She went up pretty nicely to 100 then syrfed mid 80's but she threw up all the food (gave some gravy to bring her up)
Having trouble tagging again @Chris & China (GA)
@Red & Rover (GA)
What to do do now
 
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I am a newbie and can't give dosing opinions but to tag someone type @ then the first letter or two of their user name. Little drop down menu should appear where you are typing
 
Did you stall and not feed?
You could test again in about 5 minutes and see if she is coming up.
But 93 is too low to shoot unless she comes up quite a bit, it is still very early days for you.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Did you stall and not feed?
You could test again in about 5 minutes and see if she is coming up.
But 93 is too low to shoot unless she comes up quite a bit, it is still vey early days for you.
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I stalled with no food yet. Have 4 angry and hungry cats. Last night Chris said don't shoot below 150.
I am going to test again.
 
Wow what a morning for the board to be down and Chloe with no insulin for 14 hours gave me a 37. She did not react well to gravy last night at the 24 so I gave her a tsp of her ff low carb and 2 drops of corn syrup. waited and tested 15 minutes, came up to 160, waited 30 minutes, is at 165. Have alarm set to test again in 30 minutes, no other food has been given and I ran out and picked up MC & HC. MC tuna florentine in delicate sauce, HC chicken tuscany
 
Gave a touch of MC, tuna florentine in delicate sauce. Maybe she had 2 licks. NOw I have liquid vomit everywhere. Just don't know what to do
 
How's she doing now Randi?

ETA....looks like she's doing OK now even with the pukus…..hopefully she'll settle down and surf the rest of the day for you.

Since she didn't have any insulin this morning, she shouldn't drop back down again (are you listening Chloe???)

Also, the 160, 165 and 152 are really all the same number, not really "dropping" again. Remember, each test is allowed up to 20% variance from the last ones just due to the allowed variance.
 
Morning, Randi. Morning, Chris. :rolleyes:
Woke up in the wee hours with a thought. Your signature reads 0.25ml prednisolone every 2 days but your spreadsheet reads 0.1ml prednisolone every 2 days. This could very well account for the 24 last night and the NS this morning. I'm sorry I didn't pick up on that last night. There were other events happening on the board at the same time.

Chloe has not had insulin for 19 hours. High carbs are not needed at this point. Something else is going on. Just guessing here – does the lowering of the pred dose have anything to do with the IBD and the vomiting?
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Morning, Randi. Morning, Chris. :rolleyes:
Woke up in the wee hours with a thought. Your signature reads 0.25ml prednisolone every 2 days but your spreadsheet reads 0.1ml prednisolone every 2 days. This could very well account for the 24 last night and the NS this morning. I'm sorry I didn't pick up on that last night. There were other events happening on the board at the same time.

Chloe has not had insulin for 19 hours. High carbs are not needed at this point. Something else is going on. Just guessing here – does the lowering of the pred dose have anything to do with the IBD and the vomiting?
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Good morning (afternoon) I know about the pred. I had run low on the pred so this week was a little low. Could possibly be the why the vomit and the change in food to the turkey and chicken. Really having a hard time finding what she will eat and what is good for her. Can she hypo 19 hours without insulin? And the pred dose really hasnt changed since on insulin so not sure if that would create the hypo but yeah the tummy not happy. as soon as I put a little higher carb in she vomited.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
How's she doing now Randi?

ETA....looks like she's doing OK now even with the pukus…..hopefully she'll settle down and surf the rest of the day for you.

Since she didn't have any insulin this morning, she shouldn't drop back down again (are you listening Chloe???)

Also, the 160, 165 and 152 are really all the same number, not really "dropping" again. Remember, each test is allowed up to 20% variance from the last ones just due to the allowed variance.
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OKay so that is good about them leveling off. Is it okay for her to eat regular food? Was going to go out for an errand, but second guessing myself.
 
Is there ANY chance that the shot you gave last night was more than .5? I know some of those lines on the syringes can be really wonky and if they're bad, you can give an extra 1/2 to whole unit more than you think!!

That's kind of what this whole thing looks like....and overdose

With Lantus being a long acting insulin, in case of an overdose, it's totally possible they can drop for 18-24 hours
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Yes, regular food is fine

How long are you going to be gone?
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Chris & China (GA) said:
Is there ANY chance that the shot you gave last night was more than .5? I know some of those lines on the syringes can be really wonky and if they're bad, you can give an extra 1/2 to whole unit more than you think!!

That's kind of what this whole thing looks like....and overdose

With Lantus being a long acting insulin, in case of an overdose, it's totally possible they can drop for 18-24 hours
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I would say not. I measured and measured a few times. I even use a magnifying glass to check it at the .5 level but who knows. For sure it was not anywhere close to 1u, at such a small dose even a little air bubble could affect it.
Was going to go for a couple of hours but I think I will stay home and monitor her. When should I test again?
 
While you are waiting, pull up her scruff to test for hydration. If the scruff goes down almost immediately, she's fine. If the scruff takes its time, she needs water. Just covering all the bases.

FD is slightly different when steroids are in the picture. The insulin dosage has to chase after the pred dose. @Wendy&Neko is an excellent resource. I'm also tagging @Tracey&Jones (GA) for you who has experience with both pred and IBD. And she's another Canadian so she knows what foods are available.

I'm off. Going to make a cuppa and have to get some work done. Be careful not to overheat while you are out, Randi. And pick up something for dinner while you are out. No sense cooking in this heat. kel
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
While you are waiting, pull up her scruff to test for hydration. If the scruff goes down almost immediately, she's fine. If the scruff takes its time, she needs water. Just covering all the bases.

FD is slightly different when steroids are in the picture. The insulin dosage has to chase after the pred dose. @Wendy&Neko is an excellent resource. I'm also tagging @Tracey&Jones (GA) for you who has experience with both pred and IBD. And she's another Canadian so she knows what foods are available.

I'm off. Going to make a cuppa and have to get some work done. Be careful not to overheat while you are out, Randi. And pick up something for dinner while you are out. No sense cooking in this heat. kel
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Thanks for stopping by. Have a look on us later. Th eplan was to go to the market and pick up food. They close at 5. The joy of living in Quebec. I will check her scruff again. and thanks for the tags. Wendy has stopped by.
 
My experiences with pred: I'm trying to keep Ming's pred dose consistent so I dose twice a day. Before, I was giving 1.25 mg pred twice a day in tab form. The supplier ran out of tabs so I've been giving Ming the compounded liquid pred and reduced to 1 mg twice a day (0.1 ml). The compound does "expire" and I plan to ask the pharmacist if the compound loses effectiveness over time.

A past member of the board here said she would give kitty pred if she knew she couldn't monitor too closely. She gave pred every 2 days too I believe. She also gave transdermal pred so she was able to give as little a dose as possible that was effective. Although, my vet said absorption through skin isn't always 100%.

That's what I know about pred. It might provide you some insight, it might not. Ming is on pred because of chronic pancreatitis but I really want to take him off of it to see how he does.

Edit: the dosing twice a day doesn't seem to cause any difference in numbers between AM and PM cycles. Ming does have a high dose but since going on 1 mg, he's been earning reductions.
 
There's difference between prednisone and prednisolone. The latter if further along the metabolic pathway and has less of an effect on numbers. Not all cats respond the same -- like everything else, ECID.

FWIW, I couldn't feed Gabby anything with gluten, beef, or fish. She's vomit. The gluten was especially fun since most gravy-based foods contain gluten. I would use either corn syrup or honey to bump up her numbers. It sounds like you have the same issues with Chloe and it's even more complicated with IBD. i'd urge you to use some form of syrup to steer her numbers since you should be giving her only novel proteins unless you want to set of her IBS. Are you routinely giving her a probiotic? It may help with the GI issues.
 
Hi Randi, that was very frustrating with the board going down for so long at that time. I could see your SS but not the thread. So I was glad to see you gave no shot. It was late at night for me so I eventually had to go to sleep. I can see you are in good hands now. I’m glad you retested and caught that 37 doing the following cycle.
 
Another thought. Some cats are insulin sensitive after a very low number. Even though you are shooting a reduced dose tonight, get a couple of tests in if you can.

I cannot be not on the forum much tonight but I'm sure there will be enough eyes if necessary.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
There's difference between prednisone and prednisolone. The latter if further along the metabolic pathway and has less of an effect on numbers. Not all cats respond the same -- like everything else, ECID.

FWIW, I couldn't feed Gabby anything with gluten, beef, or fish. She's vomit. The gluten was especially fun since most gravy-based foods contain gluten. I would use either corn syrup or honey to bump up her numbers. It sounds like you have the same issues with Chloe and it's even more complicated with IBD. i'd urge you to use some form of syrup to steer her numbers since you should be giving her only novel proteins unless you want to set of her IBS. Are you routinely giving her a probiotic? It may help with the GI issues.
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Hey Sienne
I am giving Chloe prednisolone liquid. Just too hard to pill her. I used the corn syrup this morning when she was at 37 since she three up so much last night. I just noticed the bottle that I bough said with real vanilla. Is that bad or should I just use honey which I have NOt sure how much I should use but I put 2 drops in her low car food.
I think I need to decide what issue is most important and I think her IBD and intolerance might win over the diabetes, and of course the kidneys before diabetes. I am going to stick with the lwest carb of the novel proteins I can find and hope she will still eat them. This is becoming a challenge.
And no I have not given any probiotics, probably a good idea and never thought of one. Could you recommend. Fortifolora probiotic? I don't remember

Right now she is at 218, 23 hours since insulin and having syrup and carbs today. Did she earn 1 or 2 reductions with the 2 drops? I really don;t think I have it in me to give her even a drop of insulin tonight. I slept for 3 hour last night.
 
Crista & Ming said:
My experiences with pred: I'm trying to keep Ming's pred dose consistent so I dose twice a day. Before, I was giving 1.25 mg pred twice a day in tab form. The supplier ran out of tabs so I've been giving Ming the compounded liquid pred and reduced to 1 mg twice a day (0.1 ml). The compound does "expire" and I plan to ask the pharmacist if the compound loses effectiveness over time.

A past member of the board here said she would give kitty pred if she knew she couldn't monitor too closely. She gave pred every 2 days too I believe. She also gave transdermal pred so she was able to give as little a dose as possible that was effective. Although, my vet said absorption through skin isn't always 100%.

That's what I know about pred. It might provide you some insight, it might not. Ming is on pred because of chronic pancreatitis but I really want to take him off of it to see how he does.

Edit: the dosing twice a day doesn't seem to cause any difference in numbers between AM and PM cycles. Ming does have a high dose but since going on 1 mg, he's been earning reductions.
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Thanks so much for stopping by Christa. Chloe is on prednisolone for suspected IBD. I would never biopsy her and she has been eating novel proteins for many years now. She has been doing very well, no vomit, no diarreha so vet reduced her a year ago to every second day. Her appetite has always been good and she sleeps alot. I think I have to mainitain the ored and will have to adjust the insulin to that.
 
Red & Rover (GA) said:
Another thought. Some cats are insulin sensitive after a very low number. Even though you are shooting a reduced dose tonight, get a couple of tests in if you can.

I cannot be not on the forum much tonight but I'm sure there will be enough eyes if necessary.
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was going to ask if I really need to shoot tonight. I just don;t know what these numbers are based on of no insulin for 23 hours or the syrup and medium carbs. Probably no insulin but if yesterday she went from .5-.25 and then todays' drop what would I give her?
 
Randi & Max (GA) said:
Did she earn 1 or 2 reductions with the 2 drops?
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I'd give .25 tonight....her depot has drained from the skip this morning so hopefully you won't have another night like last night.

I wouldn't skip or you might just end up working all the way back up....but if you're really wiped out, it's OK

We don't do quick "back to back" reductions because they usually end up not working and you just have to go back up.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'd give .25 tonight....her depot has drained from the skip this morning so hopefully you won't have another night like last night.

I wouldn't skip or you might just end up working all the way back up....but if you're really wiped out, it's OK

We don't do quick "back to back" reductions because they usually end up not working and you just have to go back up.
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I was afraid you were going to say that Chris. I hope someone will be around. Thank god you were there for me on fb this morning. I will give her a skinny .25 if I can measure so small with my old eyes and test every hour I guess till I fall asleep and set alarm I guess. Paws crossed she doe not dive on me. I am a mess.
 
Hi Randi! Sorry to see you back with Chloe, but happy you knew right where to come. Looks like Chloe's been giving you quite a run on insulin. FWIW, my 2 cents... skip tonight's shot, relax, and regroup. It's what I would do and I'm not one who was ever shy about shooting.

It's your decision... she got there once, she'll get there again... it hasn't even been two weeks.
 
FWIW, I crush Gizmo's prednisolone tablet into his food. He doesn't seem to notice.

I wouldn't use FortiFlora. As probiotics go, it's not wonderful. I use ReNew Life Ultimate. I use it on a daily basis for overall gut health. If there are diarrhea issues, I use it in combination with S. boulardii which is more specific for diarrhea. I purchase through Amazon but I have no idea what's available in Canada. At least in the US, it's carried at many Whole Foods. Gizmo gets 1/4 capsule mixed into his food. @Wendy&Neko may have some recommendations given that not all US products are available across the border.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
FWIW, I crush Gizmo's prednisolone tablet into his food. He doesn't seem to notice.

I wouldn't use FortiFlora. As probiotics go, it's not wonderful. I use ReNew Life Ultimate. I use it on a daily basis for overall gut health. If there are diarrhea issues, I use it in combination with S. boulardii which is more specific for diarrhea. I purchase through Amazon but I have no idea what's available in Canada. At least in the US, it's carried at many Whole Foods. Gizmo gets 1/4 capsule mixed into his food. @Wendy&Neko may have some recommendations given that not all US products are available across the border.
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Thanks Sienne. I will check it out. The availability of stuff her in Canada is pathetic. But I have someone in florida coming back to Montreal in 2 weeks so if I can;t find it here I will ship there and bring home. There is a whole foods in Ottawa I can ask my daughter to go and check also. None are here.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'd give .25 tonight....her depot has drained from the skip this morning so hopefully you won't have another night like last night.

I wouldn't skip or you might just end up working all the way back up....but if you're really wiped out, it's OK

We don't do quick "back to back" reductions because they usually end up not working and you just have to go back up.
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Hey Chris, Somehow I knew you were going to say that and in my gut I know based on TR and how confident I was in the past that I should .I just cant't bring myself to do it after last night on 3 hours of sleep and today's mess and with the board down. Thank god I found you though and you helped me through the dya. I am beyond mentally and physically drained. I did go out for a couple of hours and was terrified she would be dead when I got back. I have other issues which I won't go into detail here but leave it to say anxiety/panic attacks on sudden death which sadly I have experienced too many times.
I am sure I will fall asleep in my chair and hope to start fresh in the morning.
Shall I start at ..25 and see where that takes us? Thanks so much for being there with me.
 
Randi & Max (GA) said:
I am sure I will fall asleep in my chair and hope to start fresh in the morning.
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I suggest you skip and fall asleep in your bed.....tomorrow you'll be fresh and the journey can start again!

tenor.gif
 
Hi, just reading your thread and have 2 comments.

Renew life ultimate... Superstore /Loblaws carries it; I've also ordered from iherb.com.

Re possible overdosing....Are you using BD syringes??? If so, please, please consider using calipers. The lines on BD syringes are notoriously, horribly mismarked all too often, even within the same box and bags. I've measured with my calipers, and found them to be off by upwards of 1/2 unit...So on the worst marked, if you think you're giving 1/2 unit, you could easily be giving a full unit or even a fat unit. Calipers are the *only* way to get consistent dosing, and they are especially important with BD syringes...I'd go so far to say if you're unwilling or unable to use calipers, you should switch syringe brands.

All that, and you may not be using BD syringes lol...But even so, some are poorly marked. And calipers are the only way to ensure consistent doses.

With love, Nikki
 
Visbiome (order online) is a probiotic made especially for IBD, had an IM vet suggest it. My vet suggested Natural Factors Protec. Renew Ultimate is also available in a lot of vitamin shops.
 
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