7/14 Chloe PMPS 150 +1 97 +2 131 +4 148

Randi & Max (GA)

Randi & Max (GA)

Member Since 2009
Hi everyone. It has been over 9 years that I posted a condo. My new diabetic is Max's sister Chloe and we just started 1u lantus this week. Her numbers were too low to shoot in the evening so I had to skip. This morning I reduced to .75 to see where that takes us so I can shoot tonight. Cannot believe I am back here all this years but I know the help is amazing. Sadly many of Max's friends have joined him at the bridge but I am looking forward to all the new people here.

I will probably need help with tonight's shot. Chloe's ss is updated, I am a tester and Max's ss is there as well so you can get an idea what experience I have but the years do fade the some of the memories.
Thanks for the help.
 
Hi Randi, and welcome back. I think as a newbie I saw you post a few times.

Can you tell me what the prednisolone is for? And tell us a bit about Chloe and her diagnosis. Any other medical issues? I presume she is eating low carb.

Also, are you planning on following the Tight Regulation protocol? Since you were last here, the Start Lo Go Slow method of old has been added to the choice of dosing methods. People pick one or the other, and put TR or SLGS in their signature, to better help you with dosing questions.

FWIW, the no shoot number for experienced people on TR is 50, for SLGS it’s 90. I wouldn’t call you a newbie, but rather still learning about Chloe on insulin, so those no shoot numbers could go up for a bit until you have more data.
 
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Hi Wendy Thanks for all the questions. I had to cut my signature down a lot and that took a few days. I'll try and add more data although I did make a tab in her ss.
I will start with TR and see how that goes. I thought the no shoot was 150? I don't have enough data for Chloe yet so while not a newbie per say I just need to keep her safe at 18 years old.
Chloe had hyperthyroid and had the idodin radiation treatment a few years ago.
Chloe is on the pred for suspected IBD. Never did biopsy to rule out SCL so we treated as IBD. She has been on it steadily for a year now.
I switched her to novel proteins like duck, rabbit venison, boar, kangaroo. Pate's only, no gravy.
I just switched her to FF. Seems to be tolerating it for now. All the others were grain free but after reading some of the ingredients realized not so low on carbs.
Probably steroid induced diabetes
 
The “don’t shoot and post for help” number is 150.

The signature looks good. Limits on length have been out on relatively recently, which makes it hard with multiple cats.

Out of curiosity, what food were you feeding with all the novel proteins? Just asking for personal interest with a kitty needing novel proteins. One other thing, you may wish to ask your vet about budesonide. It is a steroid, that acts more locally on the GI system. Neko was on it because her heart could not tolerate pred. Anyway, in her, and some other kitties, budesonide does not increase the blood sugar. Some cats go off insulin when switched to it,
 
It took me a few days and a little help to add all of Max's stuff to Chloe's ss. I think it came out okay, I didn't want to remove his.
I was reading about budesnoide but I did not know it wouldn't raise blood sugar. I shall ask vet tomorrow what her thoughts are although I just ordered a new bottle of the pred. Chloe hard to pill so I use liquid form. Thanks for the suggestion. I would very much like this to be steroid induced and get off the insulin. My life is a little different now to have to go back to the 12 hour windows, worry about leaving the house and not being able to go out of town. No one to rely on anymore like I did for Max
Trying to think of all the cans I bought for Chloe. GO, Perfect Bistro, Hound and Gatto used to use but they changed the rabbit and very expensive. Loved a brand called walk about from australia. Had Boar, kangaroo, goat but they changed manufacturing to china so the store stopped carrying it. Weruva has a lamb. I am in Canada so selection not as good as in the U.S.
Oh also Koha has a very good selection of different ones and limited ingredients (cans even say no pea or potato) a brand called RAWZ also very good and I was using Ultra which is a store brand of pet valu in Canada.
I am sure I will be asking for dosing help at PMPS time. I will get a +11 to see where that 97 went to.
 
I am also in Canada, and knew you were too, hence the questions about food. But it seems the west coast has some different selections. I also noticed Chloe is stage two CKD. Fancy Feast is rather high in phosphorus, so not the best choice for CKD kitties. Canada Fresh also has a lamb product.

If you note my comments on budesonide, I hedged a bit. Some smaller number of kitties see a blood sugar impact on it, most don’t. I also got budesonide compounded liquid. It was nice when we reduced the dose, easy to do.
 
Yes I have seen Canada Fresh. Global carries it where I normally get my food. I think I have tried it. MIght go back there tomorrow. Just bought a bunch of cases at walmart today of ff on sales for .50 Oh well. I have 3 other cats to feed How do I know phosphorus contents of food. I know I was trying to watch that before I knew about the diabtetes and thought it was her kidneys causing the issues. It's a hard dance dealing with CKD and diabetes because the high protein not good for the kidneys' Any suggestions? Do you have Pet Valu by you? Where on the west coast?
 
Hey lady!!

Dr. Lisa's food chart includes phosphorus levels. Her list may not include many of the brands you mentioned, though. You might need to contact the manufacturer or see if there's more info on the company website. Had you considered a raw diet? There's very good info on raw food for IBD cats.

Did you do the initial dose calculation or did you start Chloe at 1.0u? (initial dose = 0.25 x ideal weight in kilograms). If you were worrying about the dose, I was going to suggest dropping it a bit so you wouldn't have to skip. I guess you're the one to decide if you feel like you're a "newbie" or if you think your experience will kick in sooner rather than later.

With early stage kidney disease, you'll want a high protein, low phos diet. Gizmo was in Stage 2 and his kidney values are now normal. My vet also has me giving him calcitriol -- it's a form of vitamin D. Interestingly, he's also on pred for IBD and his BG has been perfect. It sounds like Chloe is sensitive to steroids.
 
Hey Sienne, been a long time.
I will go through the chart. Very hard to buy stuff here. Veery grain free has potatos, vegetables and xantham gum. Getting very annoyed.
I just started at 1u but based on the calculation it's pretty close. I dropped to .75 this AM so I could hope to get a PM shot. Looking like I probably can since she is rising although still nervouse even though it is not a low number it is low for her.
I haven't considered raw but I could look into eat and just feed it to her. Have 4 cats in the house.
Do you buy the raw? I am not inclined to make myself sadly and choices here are limited. I will ask about calcitriol as well.
The experience is kicking but the balls of steel are not here yet. Must be my age and level of anxiety.
 
I'm sure you know the next thing someone is going to ask you . . . can you test? Do you have supplies? If so you could try 0.50 so she is getting something tonight. If not, do what makes you comfortable - you are her protector after all.
 
Also, remember, with Lantus, it's best to give the same dose both AM and PM so the depot has a chance to settle down and release the dose associated with what you're shooting.

If you think the 1U dose was too much, I'd stick with the .5 for now and just hold that dose for at least 6 cycles (unless she drops below 50) and then re-evaluate to see if she needs more.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
150 is the point where you shoot but the first few times you shoot a lower Pre-shot, it's a good idea to get a +1 and +2 so if you need to intervene, you can do it early

Surf safely Chloe!!
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Thanks Chris I shot the 150 just shy of .75 Probably close to .5, bought a magnifying glass today. I know we need to be consistent with the dose that's why I had to get something in to build the shed. Still of course am light on the data as it is not even a week. I will be testing tonight and see where this goes.
 
Hi Randi, Welcome back!
It looks like you shot .50 tonight, so now all you have to do is keep a close watch. @Chris & China (GA) 's advice is good and I think I would agree with sticking with the .50.
As for the FF foods, I have been feeding the Roasted Chicken feast to Gus (our "new" 11-year old NWF cat, a civvie) because it has a good protein to fat ratio (most foods are too high in fat). Phos. is not as high as some. It is fine-minced, not paté. It is, however, hard to find in the stores. I order it from Chewy.com (not sure if that is available in Canada, but if you would like me to order some for you I could meet you in Plattsburgh for delivery). Gus also likes Natures Variety Instinct-Original (I've only fed the chicken, thus far).
Chloe is in good hands. I hope all will go smoothly this week.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Randi --

At this point, just pick a dose -- either 0.5 or 0.75 -- it's not critical since Chloe's numbers aren't sky high and stick with it so you can get the depot started. Remember, with the skipped PM shots, you haven't really started building the depot. (The cycle count restarts with a skipped shot.)

I think Wendy is feeding her cats a raw diet. Also, check with @Marje and Gracie There are some pre-mixes that are available that make it easy to mix into ground food. I've been buying ground lamb and pork at Whole Foods and use EZ Complete from FoodFurLife. I don't know if they ship to Canada, though. I used to use TCFeline until they stopped shipping to the US. Marje did a huge amount of research on the various pre-mixes. It's pretty easy to make a batch and freeze it. I freed the food in ice trays so I have it portioned.
 
FoodFurLife does ship to Canada but it’s pricier than TC Feline, which makes a kidney friendly version of their premix - available only in Canada. We also have a ton of raw food brands available here if you want to go the pre-manufactured route to just try it out. I was curious that you had fed boar cause I have only seen it in raw. If feeding raw, choose ones without ground bone as it’s higher in phosphorus, eggshell calcium is better.
 
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Randi, Welcome back!
It looks like you shot .50 tonight, so now all you have to do is keep a close watch. @Chris & China (GA) 's advice is good and I think I would agree with sticking with the .50.
As for the FF foods, I have been feeding the Roasted Chicken feast to Gus (our "new" 11-year old NWF cat, a civvie) because it has a good protein to fat ratio (most foods are too high in fat). Phos. is not as high as some. It is fine-minced, not paté. It is, however, hard to find in the stores. I order it from Chewy.com (not sure if that is available in Canada, but if you would like me to order some for you I could meet you in Plattsburgh for delivery). Gus also likes Natures Variety Instinct-Original (I've only fed the chicken, thus far).
Chloe is in good hands. I hope all will go smoothly this week.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
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I will look into that Ella. Thanks for the suggestions. I had to go to platssburgh yesterday to restock on the relion supplies. Walmart does not sell it up here and the one touch strips I have are too expensive
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Randi --

At this point, just pick a dose -- either 0.5 or 0.75 -- it's not critical since Chloe's numbers aren't sky high and stick with it so you can get the depot started. Remember, with the skipped PM shots, you haven't really started building the depot. (The cycle count restarts with a skipped shot.)

I think Wendy is feeding her cats a raw diet. Also, check with @Marje and Gracie There are some pre-mixes that are available that make it easy to mix into ground food. I've been buying ground lamb and pork at Whole Foods and use EZ Complete from FoodFurLife. I don't know if they ship to Canada, though. I used to use TCFeline until they stopped shipping to the US. Marje did a huge amount of research on the various pre-mixes. It's pretty easy to make a batch and freeze it. I freed the food in ice trays so I have it portioned.
Click to expand...
Went with my gut and shot the .5 with a magnifier. I had your voice in my ear just like old times.
I'll check with Marje and do some research on the raw. I will be near a nice pet store on Thursday and they have a lot. I will enquire. Wendy is also a good source being in Canada as well. Ground lamb hard to find here and no Whole foods in quebec sadly. Closest is Ottawa.
Also I am trying to use the tag and it doesn't work. Don;t know what I am doing wrong, It worked in the tech section but now when I try it nothing happens.
 
Hey Randi


Sorry you and Chloe have to be here but I hope the downward trend continues.

I do use EZ Complete and absolutely love it. Before it, I used Alnutrin which requires that you add the supplement plus raw liver to the ground meat. Alnutrin was developed by a former FDMB member. It’s a good product, and Marta ships to Canada (and is very helpful). I prefer the EZC because you only need the mix, meat, and water. Both have recipes for using the products and cooking the meats.

I don’t like TCFeline because I’m not a fan of some of the additives in the mix including the gelatin and the whey protein even though she provides a long justification for why both are good. It could just be my own preferences on what I like to see in a premix and what I don’t. And I really don’t like adding butter and vegetables when using her “renal” premix. I feel they are unnecessary for a cat, IMHO.

I don’t remember what the P levels are in the Alnutrin. But Marta is super helpful and could probably help you with that.
 
Canadian formulas for TC Feline Special (Low P version) are different than in the US I just added meat, egg, water, and premix. I also don’t recall whey protein but it did have xanthum gum, so switched to EZComplete when the civvie got IBD/lymphoma. I just made the same food for both.

Nice cycle tonight,
 
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