Question about wet to dry food ratios

[Lyss]

Hello! We're new to this, Pan was diagnosed two weeks ago. His vet wants him on a mix of wet and dry food, as he has some dental issues, and I currently have him on a half and half food situation which I understand is probably less than ideal.

He goes in for his first curve on Tuesday so I don't want to change anything until then, but I was wondering if anyone else is in a similar situation? I'm thinking I'll change him to one meal of only wet food and the other mixed half and half. We can't free feed him as he has never had an off switch for eating, so I can't feed him wet and leave kibble for grazing.

 

[Athenaglaukopis]

Hi there lyss!
Yes I have, I actually have a senior kitty, currently on remission from diabetes and at the time of diagnosis needed dental (extensive). Here is what I did: she was a voracious eater, and it likely was the diabetes doing it, so switching her entirely to wet food was easy, she was a good 13-14 pounds and her blood glucose was almost 500.
I gave her a can of wet 3- pounce fancy feast pate in the morning, one in the afternoon and if she got really begging then I gave her a quarter at night or so.
Is she didn’t eat fully a meal then I would leave it out so she could grace through until the next scheduled feeding time.
With the insulin and the strict diet slowly ... over the course of a few months her blood glucose went to normal.
Changing the food right now will not drastically change the numbers, how ever it will start the kitty and you on a routine towards possible remission.
Now my girl had her dental so she has about 5 teeth left and started avoiding the wet food. Despite trying different flavour sand brands that were low on carb and high on protein I gave in to my little fluffy dry food addict, specially because I was about to go on a week long trip and I needed her to eat with when the sitter came by.
I purchased young again zero carb cat food. She loves it, and without her teeth she manages to eat it. She gets 3/4 of a daily portion of dry, divided into the morning and the afternoon. At night she get 1 3 ounce fancy feast pate can. ( wet food takes her longer to eat, and other kitties will eat it if I leave her unprotected, so at night she can take her time eating as she sleeps with me with the door closed.

I would recommend to you if possible to change the food to wet and more complyiant with a diabetic cat diet, I don’t think it will change the numbers drastically in such short time. Switching to only wet would also give his teeth some rest and would help him stabilize for his dental, just the same as my fluffy did.
I hope this helps you somewhat and all my love to you both!

 

[Lyss]

Hi there lyss!
Yes I have, I actually have a senior kitty, currently on remission from diabetes and at the time of diagnosis needed dental (extensive). Here is what I did: she was a voracious eater, and it likely was the diabetes doing it, so switching her entirely to wet food was easy, she was a good 13-14 pounds and her blood glucose was almost 500.
I gave her a can of wet 3- pounce fancy feast pate in the morning, one in the afternoon and if she got really begging then I gave her a quarter at night or so.
Is she didn’t eat fully a meal then I would leave it out so she could grace through until the next scheduled feeding time.
With the insulin and the strict diet slowly ... over the course of a few months her blood glucose went to normal.
Changing the food right now will not drastically change the numbers, how ever it will start the kitty and you on a routine towards possible remission.
Now my girl had her dental so she has about 5 teeth left and started avoiding the wet food. Despite trying different flavour sand brands that were low on carb and high on protein I gave in to my little fluffy dry food addict, specially because I was about to go on a week long trip and I needed her to eat with when the sitter came by.
I purchased young again zero carb cat food. She loves it, and without her teeth she manages to eat it. She gets 3/4 of a daily portion of dry, divided into the morning and the afternoon. At night she get 1 3 ounce fancy feast pate can. ( wet food takes her longer to eat, and other kitties will eat it if I leave her unprotected, so at night she can take her time eating as she sleeps with me with the door closed.

I would recommend to you if possible to change the food to wet and more complyiant with a diabetic cat diet, I don’t think it will change the numbers drastically in such short time. Switching to only wet would also give his teeth some rest and would help him stabilize for his dental, just the same as my fluffy did.
I hope this helps you somewhat and all my love to you both!

Yeah I doubt the numbers will change much if at all on his curve, but since we're not home testing yet (husband has yet to be able to get up the fortitude to try shots so I'm the sole caregiver right now on top of running a small business, and I'm trying to ease my poor boy into these changes as smoothly as possible) I do want to wait to see his results Tuesday first before making even more adjustments.

He can't free feed, we have multiple cats and he has never in 12 years had an off switch for eating so I have to control his portions. But he currently gets an eighth of a cup of dry with half a can of wet food each meal. For ease of my life I was going to do a full can one meal and half a can with the dry the other since our other cat gets a quarter cup per meal and it makes it easier to dole out with our one eighth scoop.

He'd eat entirely wet food if offered, it's a pretty high value treat for him but I'm just concerned for his teeth if we go all wet.

 

[Sharon14]

Actually the dry food prevents dental problems theory has been squashed. Here’s one article, but if you google it, you’ll see many more. The best commercial diet is grain free, low carb wet food. https://animalwellnessmagazine.com/feeding-cat-dental-issues/
And one of the best sites on feline nutrition is https://catinfo.org/

 

[Lyss]

Actually the dry food prevents dental problems theory has been squashed. Here’s one article, but if you google it, you’ll see many more. The best commercial diet is grain free, low carb wet food. https://animalwellnessmagazine.com/feeding-cat-dental-issues/
And one of the best sites on feline nutrition is https://catinfo.org/

Definitely looking into this! Thanks!

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

A low carb wet or raw food is best for diabetic cats. Almost all dry foods, including prescription foods, are high in carbs. By feeding high carb foods it will be very difficult to control Pan's diabetes.

If he has dental issues, having his teeth cleaned and any infections treated will also help with reducing his glucose levels also. Infection and pain can increase glucose levels.

It looks like you may have started insulin. Can you tell us what insulin and the dose?

One thing we recommend is home testing. This is testing glucose levels before every shot with either a human or pet glucose meter. First it will tell you if it is safe to give the shot. If you give insulin when the glucose levels are too low, Pan could become hypoglycemic. This can be very dangerous for him. Another reason is if you switch to a low carb diet or he has is dental, his glucose levels will probably also drop. You will then need to also lower insulin dose. Your vet can show you how to test or we can help you learn how to do it.

 

[Lyss]

A low carb wet or raw food is best for diabetic cats. Almost all dry foods, including prescription foods, are high in carbs. By feeding high carb foods it will be very difficult to control Pan's diabetes.

If he has dental issues, having his teeth cleaned and any infections treated will also help with reducing his glucose levels also. Infection and pain can increase glucose levels.

It looks like you may have started insulin. Can you tell us what insulin and the dose?

One thing we recommend is home testing. This is testing glucose levels before every shot with either a human or pet glucose meter. First it will tell you if it is safe to give the shot. If you give insulin when the glucose levels are too low, Pan could become hypoglycemic. This can be very dangerous for him. Another reason is if you switch to a low carb diet or he has is dental, his glucose levels will probably also drop. You will then need to also lower insulin dose. Your vet can show you how to test or we can help you learn how to do it.

He's on 1 unit 2x a day. His first curve is the day after tomorrow so we're waiting for that before we start at home testing. After we see what those numbers are I plan to adjust his food to mostly if not all wet, and then attempt testing at home. I'm not certain he's going to entertain that idea, but I'm going to do my best to convince him to put up with it.

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

He's on 1 unit 2x a day. His first curve is the day after tomorrow so we're waiting for that before we start at home testing. After we see what those numbers are I plan to adjust his food to mostly if not all wet, and then attempt testing at home. I'm not certain he's going to entertain that idea, but I'm going to do my best to convince him to put up with it.

That is a good starting dose. What insulin are you using? There are different insulins, some work better for cats than others. By knowing which insulin you are using will help us answer any questions you may have.

We can also help you with any difficulties you may have when switching diets and learning to test.

 

[Lyss]

Oh sorry! He's on Vetsulin.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

Home testing will tell you more than curves at the vet, as they are often stressed at the vet which can cause the numbers to be higher.

I was very hesitant to start home testing and it took a while because my girl was not a willing participant, but she didn’t start getting better until I switched to all wet food and started home testing her myself!

 

[Sharon14]

He's on 1 unit 2x a day. His first curve is the day after tomorrow so we're waiting for that before we start at home testing. After we see what those numbers are I plan to adjust his food to mostly if not all wet, and then attempt testing at home. I'm not certain he's going to entertain that idea, but I'm going to do my best to convince him to put up with it.

I would learn to test before switching food, as the switch could lower his BG significantly and possibly cause low blood sugar. We can help you learn how.

 

[Lyss]

Home testing will tell you more than curves at the vet, as they are often stressed at the vet which can cause the numbers to be higher.

I was very hesitant to start home testing and it took a while because my girl was not a willing participant, but she didn’t start getting better until I switched to all wet food and started home testing her myself!

We give him kitty Xanax before vet visits because his anxiety is THAT bad, so I'm not sure it'll actually skew as much as if he didn't get meds. But I definitely am going to keep his stress in mind when we get the results.

 

[Lyss]

I would learn to test before switching food, as the switch could lower his BG significantly and possibly cause low blood sugar. We can help you learn how.

I've watched a few videos and I feel like y'all have the most docile cats on Earth to be honest. Lol

Pan is literally afraid of strong gusts of wind. I know I can't click the lancet pen near his ear without him running, (my brother is diabetic and when we still lived with my mom the lancet click always freaked Pan out) so I'll have to prick by hand unless there's another spot I can test.

 

[Sharon14]

Try the desensitizing I recommended in your welcome thread. I would start that now. Just take him to the spot for testing. Rub the ear, give him a hug and a treat and let him go. Gradually add more vigorous rubbing and when you’re both comfortable, try the prick.

 

[Sarah&Soph]

I've watched a few videos and I feel like y'all have the most docile cats on Earth to be honest. Lol

Oh trust me, I felt the same way!!! My girl is a demon and would fight me every time, plus bite and scratch. The cats in the videos are always so well behaved lol.

There are lots of people who do use the lancet by hand! If you want to use the pen, it might help to click it and then give him a treat right afterwards so he associates the noise with good things. Treats were the key to getting Sophie to cooperate

 

[Lyss]

Try the desensitizing I recommended in your welcome thread. I would start that now. Just take him to the spot for testing. Rub the ear, give him a hug and a treat and let him go. Gradually add more vigorous rubbing and when you’re both comfortable, try the prick.

I'll start tonight when he comes over for snuggles after dinner.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

Hi Lyss, I have never used the pen, It's so much easier doing it by hand, you can see better. It just takes a little practice. I will post a picture of what I use , I get them from my vet, they are longer than the lancets so you can see better where you are aiming, plus they have a better thing at the top of it to hold on to, let me see if I can post the pics @Lyss ok I posted the box and a pic of the needle

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

Many of us use the lancets freehand instead of using the pen. I have better control doing it that way. A couple things to do before you start testing will get Pan get used to having his ears touched. First start massaging his ears towards the tip. This will also help to get the blood flowing. The other is to decide where you want to test and if is somewhere Pan is not used to going, put him there and reward him with a low carb treat such as freeze dried chicken. Also massage his ears there. Soon he will associate the place and touching the ears with the reward. When you start testing you also want to reward even if you are not successful. This will keep him associating testing with treats.

 

[Lyss]

I basically do his shots where we snuggle most of the time, and that works well for us. Do you think it would be easier to just test here too? I don't want him to end up hating being in this spot.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

He's on 1 unit 2x a day. His first curve is the day after tomorrow so we're waiting for that before we start at home testing. After we see what those numbers are I plan to adjust his food to mostly if not all wet, and then attempt testing at home. I'm not certain he's going to entertain that idea, but I'm going to do my best to convince him to put up with it.

Hi Lyss, the 1u is a sensible starting dose. (Some vets prescribe starting doses that are way too high... )

As others have said, the curve numbers your kitty will get at the vet may be very different to what you'd see at home. Home curves give better data, because the whole point of a curve is to try to see what happens on a 'typical' day, and a day a the vet's clinic is not a typical day...

It's great that you're considering learning to hometest. It is THE most useful thing to learn in terms of managing your kitty's diabetes and in keeping him safe from hypo.

For cats already on insulin it is super important that you learn to hometest before reducing the carb content of the diet. You'll need to be able to monitor the effect of the diet change on your kitty's blood glucose, and reduce insulin as necessary to prevent hypo.

While most cats can be hometested, not all kitties take to testing like 'ducks to water'. Some do take a bit more work. For example, my new diabetic (adopted in Feb) didn't like her ears touched at all at first. ...But, after years of dealing with feline diabetes I knew I had to test her to keep her safe, so that meant finding a way that worked for her.
I did various things to get her used to the process, breaking it down into various elements.
I got her used to the lancing device by clicking it and then giving her a treat. Click, treat... Click, treat... I'd rattle the test strip container and do the same thing. She very soon learned to regard these sounds as a positive thing...
She loves being stroked, so I'd stroke her or brush her and then gently hold or massage one of her ears, just for a second, and then go back to stroking or brushing her.
Or I'd go to wherever she was in the house, talk to her softly, stroke her, hold her ear for a second, give a treat, and then walk away.
In all cases she was left with some kind of reward.

I know it might sound like a lot of work, but these are all really quick things to do. They just take a few minutes. But the effect of doing them can be profound. Repetition is key. At one point early on I was doing these kinds of things 6 or 7 times a day. In less than a week her attitude to testing had already changed significantly.
Now, when she hears me getting the test kit ready, she goes to our 'testing spot' (her favourite armchair) and waits for me... Bless her....

In my new girl's case I've found I can incorporate a test into a little cuddle and grooming session, and she barely notices the test.
With my old diabetic boy - who was strongly food-motivated - I'd crumble treats to distract him and test him while he was hoovering up the crumbs.
And the more calm and 'matter of fact' we are about it, the more likely it is that the kitty will be OK with it. Our own attitude and demeanour can make a big difference to the outcome.

Eliz

 

[Lyss]

Hi Lyss, the 1u is a sensible starting dose. (Some vets prescribe starting doses that are way too high... )

As others have said, the curve numbers your kitty will get at the vet may be very different to what you'd see at home. Home curves give better data, because the whole point of a curve is to try to see what happens on a 'typical' day, and a day a the vet's clinic is not a typical day...

It's great that you're considering learning to hometest. It is THE most useful thing to learn in terms of managing your kitty's diabetes and in keeping him safe from hypo.

For cats already on insulin it is super important that you learn to hometest before reducing the carb content of the diet. You'll need to be able to monitor the effect of the diet change on your kitty's blood glucose, and reduce insulin as necessary to prevent hypo.

While most cats can be hometested, not all kitties take to testing like 'ducks to water'. Some do take a bit more work. For example, my new diabetic (adopted in Feb) didn't like her ears touched at all at first. ...But, after years of dealing with feline diabetes I knew I had to test her to keep her safe, so that meant finding a way that worked for her.
I did various things to get her used to the process, breaking it down into various elements.
I got her used to the lancing device by clicking it and then giving her a treat. Click, treat... Click, treat... I'd rattle the test strip container and do the same thing. She very soon learned to regard these sounds as a positive thing...
She loves being stroked, so I'd stroke her or brush her and then gently hold or massage one of her ears, just for a second, and then go back to stroking or brushing her.
Or I'd go to wherever she was in the house, talk to her softly, stroke her, hold her ear for a second, give a treat, and then walk away.
In all cases she was left with some kind of reward.

I know it might sound like a lot of work, but these are all really quick things to do. They just take a few minutes. But the effect of doing them can be profound. Repetition is key. At one point early on I was doing these kinds of things 6 or 7 times a day. In less than a week her attitude to testing had already changed significantly.
Now, when she hears me getting the test kit ready, she goes to our 'testing spot' (her favourite armchair) and waits for me... Bless her....

In my new girl's case I've found I can incorporate a test into a little cuddle and grooming session, and she barely notices the test.
With my old diabetic boy - who was strongly food-motivated - I'd crumble treats to distract him and test him while he was hoovering up the crumbs.
And the more calm and 'matter of fact' we are about it, the more likely it is that the kitty will be OK with it. Our own attitude and demeanour can make a big difference to the outcome.

Eliz

This is super helpful. I am admittedly nervous about doing this part, this is probably the biggest hurdle for me personally. But it will have to get done. He's very comfortable with me touching his ears, but he's super active before meals and wants to play and not snuggle so I imagine that will be a challenge.

Is there a lancet pen or even the single use ones you recommend? I'm concerned about how thin his ears are. And also I see people talk about putting Neosporin on their ears after? I'm highly allergic to bacitracin which is in every over the counter antibiotic ointment, so I'm hoping that's not necessary?

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

We give him kitty Xanax before vet visits because his anxiety is THAT bad, so I'm not sure it'll actually skew as much as if he didn't get meds. But I definitely am going to keep his stress in mind when we get the results.

That is another reason to learn to home test. By testing before every shot and doing your own curves will eliminate any vet visits just for testing. You can provide your vet with a copy of your testing log instead. Also if you set up your spreadsheet online, you can send the link to your vet and they can see it anytime they need an update.

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

plain vaseline/petroleum jelly is fine, does about the same thing, some people put a skim of it on ears beforehand, to help the blood bead up instead of smearing into the hair on the ears -- if you want to add an antibiotic ointment, check to see if it's okay for cats -- NO salicylates, they're cat poison

as for lancets, the choice is more for your convenience and comfort -- to begin with, a 26 or 28 gauge lancet is easier since for "virgin" ears, those which haven't learned to bleed, haven't grown more capillaries, it can take a pretty good poke to get enough blood -- this will get easier fairly soon! and you can then use a thinner (higher number) lancet which will sting less

prick the ear at a 45 degree angle, best if you orient that towards the tip of the ear -- most lancet pen devices are made to punch straight in -- cat skin is a bit thinner than human -- I'm telling you what you already know

this assuming you are "free handing" -- using only the lancet itself, not the pen device -- if you prefer a pen, you of course need to get the lancet that fits it

 

[Bama Kitty Mom (GA)]

Place a cotton round or ball underneath the ear before you prick in case the lancet goes all the way through the ear. You don't want to stick yourself in the process. Don't worry too much about going all the way through the ear. It happens multiple times and kitty is no worse for it. You can also use the cotton to squeeze the ear afterward to stop the bleeding. Bama always shakes his head and sends blood drops flying everywhere if I don't. I don't bother with either antibiotic ointment or Vaseline on his ears as I've never found it necessary. Bama's ears don't have a lot of fur on them so I have no trouble seeing the spot of blood and I don't need butterfingers when handling the meter, strips, et al. I do use a rice sock warmed for 30 seconds in the microwave as well as a vitamin pill bottle filled with warm water to press against his ear before I get started. His ears always feel a bit cool and the warmth helps the blood flow to the tips. It doesn't help that my hands always seem to be cold.

 

[Sharon14]

I am admittedly nervous about doing this part, this is probably the biggest hurdle for me personally.

It may sound silly, but try singing softly while you test. It will help you relax

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

It may sound silly, but try singing softly while you test. It will help you relax

not only you, cat seems to enjoy it too -- you don't have to have a great singing voice, even talking a song works

I'm reminded of that episode of "Northern Exposure" where Shelly finds she can't talk, only sing, and she sings to the baby

if you haven't seen it, the end of that episode shows two great actors (John Cullum and Cynthia Geary) demonstrating the most touching emotion of love between two people