06/15 Willow...some misc questions on nadir/stopping bupe/levemir vs lantus

nslade001

nslade001

Member Since 2018
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Hi everyone, hope you and your kitties are doing well. I haven't been able to read a lot lately (low data) so am out of the loop lol.

A few questions...

First, could someone look at her SS and let me know what you think of those nadirs/onsets the past while? Quite a few times her nadir seems to be her following preshot (+12). She also had a few very, very early nadirs at +2 to +2.5ish. Then I got to wondering...was that overlap and if so, would that mean her nadirs were at +14 and not +2? Just not sure how that works. But it's why I like to test at +9 or so, when she often (but not always) dips...to see if she's heading down at preshot.

Second, I've been treating her "as if" she was having a pancreatic flare/unknown pain by keeping her on anti-nausea meds along with bupe three times daily. We're just not sure if she's been in pain or not....she's not been hiding, or meatloafing. But her pupils have been more dilated than they were in her "obviously feeling pretty good" period (which didn't last as long as we'd like), and she was on and off inappetant again. The only real difference is she's been a bit more lethargic than normal, and not sure if that's the bupe or not. Anyway, it's been around a week and I'm going to stop the regular bupe and see how she does in comparison...but should I wean her off the bupe, or can it be cold-turkeyed?

Lastly, is there really a difference in how cat's "feel" when they're on a different insulin? i know the lantus sometimes stings her even though it's such a low dose, and I *think* it was @Kris & Teasel who mentioned their cat "felt better" on levemir. Just wondering if a change is something we should be considering, although I really don't want another learning curve or later nadirs, but if it might be better for her we'd have to seriously consider it.

Thanks so much in advance! Hoping all your kitties surf safely, with love, Nikki
 
I'm not an expert on dosing but wow, I love the greens and blues on Willow's sheet. Hopefully someone comes along to comment on that.

But from my experience, Ming's nadir happens sometimes at PS time on Levemir. And I know Wendy mentioned she caught Neko's nadir at around +14 as well. Not sure about Lantus though.

Levemir supposedly stings less because it's got a different pH (I believe, don't quote me on this). It's onset is much much later. Ming's onset is around +4 to +5 while on Lantus, his onset was at +2 to +3. I also noticed with Ming, at onset sometimes he'll dive because the dose of Lantus is kicking in. That might be what's happening with Willow at +2. Just a theory. Again, not an expert.

Bupe can make a cat lethargic because it's an opioid. You can try reducing the dose or reducing its frequency. So instead of three times a day, you can try twice a day and see if it makes a difference in Willow's demeanour. You can definitely go cold turkey too but the important thing with pancreatitis, is to keep up with pain and nausea. Or else the cat won't eat and the cycle of pancreatitis starts all over again.
 
nslade001 said:
last post

Hi everyone, hope you and your kitties are doing well. I haven't been able to read a lot lately (low data) so am out of the loop lol.

A few questions...

First, could someone look at her SS and let me know what you think of those nadirs/onsets the past while? Quite a few times her nadir seems to be her following preshot (+12). She also had a few very, very early nadirs at +2 to +2.5ish. Then I got to wondering...was that overlap and if so, would that mean her nadirs were at +14 and not +2? Just not sure how that works. But it's why I like to test at +9 or so, when she often (but not always) dips...to see if she's heading down at preshot.

Second, I've been treating her "as if" she was having a pancreatic flare/unknown pain by keeping her on anti-nausea meds along with bupe three times daily. We're just not sure if she's been in pain or not....she's not been hiding, or meatloafing. But her pupils have been more dilated than they were in her "obviously feeling pretty good" period (which didn't last as long as we'd like), and she was on and off inappetant again. The only real difference is she's been a bit more lethargic than normal, and not sure if that's the bupe or not. Anyway, it's been around a week and I'm going to stop the regular bupe and see how she does in comparison...but should I wean her off the bupe, or can it be cold-turkeyed?

Lastly, is there really a difference in how cat's "feel" when they're on a different insulin? i know the lantus sometimes stings her even though it's such a low dose, and I *think* it was @Kris & Teasel who mentioned their cat "felt better" on levemir. Just wondering if a change is something we should be considering, although I really don't want another learning curve or later nadirs, but if it might be better for her we'd have to seriously consider it.

Thanks so much in advance! Hoping all your kitties surf safely, with love, Nikki
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Hi Nikki,

I'm new here so I'll be interested in the answer to your NADIR ? as well. Your #s are so similar, meaning greens & the #s are close, or even if they are blue the #s from the pre dose to +2 even seem so close. I just started Lantus & would LOVE to have your SS :):D!

With regarding to "sting" with the Lantus do you mean when you inject it? I draw mine up & let it sit out to warm up because I read that cold insulin can sting/hurt to inject & I see a difference since letting it warm up. As far as how they feel, my T was on Vetsulin first & my husband & I both agree he didn't seem to feel good on it. He was diagnosed with DM by labs & had no clinical signs, including behavior changes....until Vetsulin. He seems better on the Lantus even without great #s yet.

My T also has chronic pancreatitis but is treated with Pred vs Bupe. Since the DM diagnosis we did decrease the Pred but VERY little because we didn't want to cause an episode. So I agree with Crista re: reducing the dose or frequency & see how she does. Better to go slow & safe. My vet informed me that an increase in inflammation or pain can increase BG, which makes sense.
 
No worries & no apology necessary:cool:!! This is the first site I've ever been on with the "likes" etc that I've heard about forever on Facebook, Instagram etc.. I don't use any social media, including Facebook, (this is the first), so I hope I haven't offended too many people if I didn't "like" something or "follow" someone :p. Honestly, I don't know how people do it!! I think my head would explode :woot: if I was on all the sites & was expected to "like" a comment/pic/etc or if I upset/hurt people if I didn't follow etc :smuggrin:
 
Amy47 said:
No worries & no apology necessary:cool:!! This is the first site I've ever been on with the "likes" etc that I've heard about forever on Facebook, Instagram etc.. I don't use any social media, including Facebook, (this is the first), so I hope I haven't offended too many people if I didn't "like" something or "follow" someone :p. Honestly, I don't know how people do it!! I think my head would explode :woot: if I was on all the sites & was expected to "like" a comment/pic/etc or if I upset/hurt people if I didn't follow etc :smuggrin:
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Hehe, I liked your post.
Seriously, me too. I rarely participate on Facebook because of that...Too much work! Have a great day :)
 
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