MACKA _ HELP PMPS numbers dropping +3 174 +4 56 it's late don't know what to do

Yes, after 15 minutes, he was at 65.
I will test him again 15 minutes, should I keep on feeding him? What about syrup? Should I test all night?
 
He's still kind of low. You don't want to feed too much at a time; you want him to be hungry enough if you have to stay at it awhile. Do you know the carb percentages of the canned food(s)? You can add a drop or two of syrup to a spoonful of canned food. It won't last real long, though, so you do want to keep testing.
 
Susan&Felix said:
He's still kind of low. You don't want to feed too much at a time; you want him to be hungry enough if you have to stay at it awhile. Do you know the carb percentages of the canned food(s)? You can add a drop or two of syrup to a spoonful of canned food. It won't last real long, though, so you do want to keep testing.
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Thank you. I shall leave now!
 
Just tested again he's at 84, I feed him 1 tea spoon / 15 minutes, but at the beginning I panicked and gave him a handful of kibbles. He's still hungry though.

Hill canned food urinary is 28% carbs.
The dry food must be around 18%
The pro plan was 15%
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
Just tested again he's at 84, I feed him 1 tea spoon / 15 minutes, but at the beginning I panicked and gave him a handful of kibbles. He's still hungry though.

Hill canned food urinary is 28% carbs.
The dry food must be around 18%
The pro plan was 15%
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Penelope and Mačka said:
@Bron and Sheba what are the next steps?
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You are doing well. It is scary The first few times. Dry food is not good though as it takes longer to be absorbed. So make sure you have a variety of medium and high carb food in the cupboard.
84 is a safe number. I’d test again in 30 minutes and see where he’s at.
I wouldn’t feed him again at the moment as we don’t want to fill him up
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
Thank you. After that do I have to test again every hour until next shot?
At this point, should we give a shot at all? We just started 2 units 4 days ago...
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Let's see how he goes with the next test. It will all depend what that is.
I can't see what dosing method you are following? Have you decided yet?
Either way Macka has earned a reduction down to 1.75 at the next shot.
With recent DKA in the picture, we don't want him to be skipping insulin shots if at all possible.
That's great you are testing daily for ketones!
I will be around for the next several hours, so let's wait and see how he goes.
is that Ok and are you happy with that?
 
Yes of course thank you so much. I can't sleep anyway even though I have to go to work tomorrow, but is it safe to go to work?
I think that with the vet we were going for the slow method. At 1.5 units he had very high numbers (400-500 range).
 
he is 103 now after 30 minutes.

Isn't 1.75 going to bring him back to very numbers too? And since the insulin is a depot insulin, ins't he going to be overdosed for 2 days?
 
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Ok, when you get a minute can you put the SLGS methods in your signature please.
103 that's good. How far along are you now? + ?
Can you test again in one hour please?
Are you able to come home at all during the day to test?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Ok, when you get a minute can you put the SLGS methods in your signature please.
103 that's good. How far along are you now? + ?
Can you test again in one hour please?
Are you able to come home at all during the day to test?
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I would have to leave at 9:30 and would be back at 3:30. But at this point, I'm so worried I am not sure I can even go. Let alone the fact that I am not going to sleep tonight...

103 was at PM +5. I could never figure out his nadir, if you look at his spreadsheet it's all just reds and blacks until today. I really do not understand what happened.
I will test again in 30 minutes and an hour.
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
I would have to leave at 9:30 and would be back at 3:30. But at this point, I'm so worried I am not sure I can even go.

103 was at PM +5. I could never figure out his nadir, if you look at his spreadsheet it's all just reds and blacks until today. I really do not understand what happened.
I will test again in 30 minutes and an hour.
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What happens if you don't go to work?
+5 so hopefully he's coming up to nadir.
Obviously 2 units is enough to drop him too low. The depot has been filling as well, so now we need to reduce the dose.
He could well bounce from that low tonight so don't be surprised if he's high tomorrow. You will still need to reduce the dose.
 
Also you are not getting a lot of tests in during the pm cycle so it is possible he is dropping lower at night and then bouncing the next day.....you can see the black am numbers.
Did you get a test in before you gave insulin this evening?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
What happens if you don't go to work?
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Well they will have opinions, since I am already missing work next Fri-Sat because of urgent surgery...
I have another job on Tues-Thur, and this one too, I don't think I can go and leave Macka alone all day after what happened.
That will put them in a delicate situation for sure :(
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Did you get a test in before you gave insulin this evening?
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Tonight was one of the few days I thought I did not need to test, because he had been high all day, and I was under the impression that with Lantus, you don't rely on the pre-shot tests for shooting; As a consequence, I thought, obviously I made a huge mistake, that his +5 during the day was a sign he was too high anyway.

You're right, I do not test much at night although I wake up every other hour to check on him usually, and feed him a little because I was so scared of hypo. I thought that poking his ears non stop was just too much :(
 
We don't rely on the preshot for dosing, we rely on the nadir, but we always always test before every shot to see if it is safe to shoot. I would never give an insulin shot if I hadn't tested because you just don't know if it could have dropped low. It is possible that Macka had a low preshot tonight. He could well have been coming off a bounce.. he is not used to lower numbers any more and his body is probably reacting to any lowish numbers by dumping glucose and regulatory hormones into his system.
You might be better when you wake up, to test and see what he is, instead of worrying. Just looking at the cat won't tell you if he's low. I tested and found Sheba at 28 on the human meter one day and the only sign she has was she was suddenly really hungry..

Do you have an automatic feeder you can use when you are at work and overnight? That would stop you having to wake up every 2 hours. You will get exhausted if you have to keep doing that.
I would get a before bed test and if it is lower than the preshot or lower than the +2 in the Pm cycle, I would test again during the night. If it has gone up, then you should be safe to sleep. Just leave some food out in the autofeeder.
I think we can remove the 911 now.
I see in the subject line +5 was 65. Then you said that we were up to +5 at 103?
 
I removed the 911 and edited the title, good catch. I was in such a panic I could not think.
He is +6 161.
I gave him a spoonful of carb food every time after I tested tonight. Should I continue doing that?

Regarding a feeder, there's another cat here and he would eat it right away, unless I lock him in a room. But it's an idea I should consider seriously after what happened tonight. And yes, I am already exhausted after 1 month of not sleeping.
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
I removed the 911 and edited the title, good catch. I was in such a panic I could not think.
He is +6 161.
I gave him a spoonful of carb food every time after I tested tonight. Should I continue doing that?

Regarding a feeder, there's another cat here and he would eat it right away, unless I lock him in a room. But it's an idea I shouldz consider seriously after what happened tonight. And yes, I am already exhausted after 1 month of not sleeping.
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It's understandable you panicked.....we all did in the beginning!
There are feeders available that are microchipped and only let the one cat eat from it......they aren't cheap but worth a look.
What carb food did you feed him at each test time?
Are you able to sleep inbetween waking up to check he's ok? I used to be able to test Sheba and fall back to sleep pretty easily so if you can do that it will mean you can go to bed much earlier as long as you can wake up with an alwarm....some people just sleep through it.
I would not feed any more just at the moment and see in an hour if he is still going up. Is that ok? I have no idea what time it is there.
 
Right now it's 1:50 am in Oregon, where are you? His shot should be at 7:30am. I wrote to my vet to ask her what dose to give, let's hope she can see the message and reply before the office opens at 8am.

I fed him at first:
m/d dry food (must be around 18%), a handful
Pro plan salmon and rice 15% carbs, a spoonful

then found out this one had higher carbs so he got almost 1/2 can of it in multiple spoonfuls:
Hill canned food urinary 28% carbs.

I was not prepared for this, I did not have any other option.

Right now Macka's sleeping and snoring. After the next test, I will try to sleep on the couch where he is, for an hour. I already wrote to my supervisor to explain what was happening.
 
I am in Australia and it is 7 pm.
Ok so he's had a lot of carbs. That could be why he is at 161.
For the future, go out and buy some medium (11%-17 % carb) and some high carb(18% and over) and make sure you have at least 4 cans of each at all times in your cupboard. When you buy them, get a texta and mark the number of carbs on the top of the can and put them in your hypo toolbox with your honey or Karo..
Next time you have a situation like tonight......give honey and / or high carb and test in 20 minutes, keep doing this until Macka is up over 68, , then switch to low carb and keep testing each 1/2 hour or Hour depending on how high he has gone. We like to see if kitty can stay up on their own without food. But if he dropped again under 68 then you would give more high carb and / or honey. Does that make sense?
 
Thank you so much for the good advice! now he's at 362 at +7 :/
It must be the kibble kicking in... what a mess. There's not much I can do anymore, how far can it rise?
Should I test again in an hour?
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
Thank you so much for the good advice! now he's at 362 at +7 :/
It must be the kibble kicking in... what a mess. There's not much I can do anymore, how far can it rise?
Should I test again in an hour?
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No I think you can leave it for tonight.
Never mind. You did what you thought was needed to keep him safe. If it makes you feel any better I did the same thing (pre forum days) and I filled Sheba up so much with honey and dry food she felt sick all the next day...it always seems to happen at night.....and I had woken up my daughter to move her car from the driveway so I could drive to the ER if needed and had my husband awake to drive me. Sheba started to rise just in time!:joyful:
Next time you will be better prepared.
I would get a +11 though so you have time to post and ask for help with the am dose. Try and get some sleep.
Don't forget Macka has earned a reduction to 1.75 units
 
We recommend going up or down in 1/4 unit increments. You went up to 1.75 but only stayed there for three cycles. It takes 6 cycles for the depot to fill and get the full effect of the dose.
What do you mean 'how long does the overdose last'?
 
I mean that right now Macka has had an overdose of insulin that led him to a hypoglycemia. How long does it last since it's a depot insulin?

I just checked his blood again and he's at 644 (pm +8). Can it rise even higher? I really messed with his blood sugar. Is there anything I can do or just wait? Is he in another kind of danger like, ketoacidosis?
 
Penelope and Mačka said:
I mean that right now Macka has had an overdose of insulin that led him to a hypoglycemia. How long does it last since it's a depot insulin?

I just checked his blood again and he's at 644 (pm +8). Can it rise even higher? I really messed with his blood sugar. Is there anything I can do or just wait?
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Nothing you can do about the 644 except wait it out and see if it's a bounce or the high carb food. Probably a bit of both I would think.
The depot can influence up to the following 6 cycles but if you reduce the dose, the depot will reduce too over the next 6 cycles.
Because you didn't test before the last shot we don't know what the preshot was and if it was too low to shoot. Either way a reduction is needed. See what your vet suggests. At the end of the day, you have to be comfortable with what you shoot.
 
Congrats on surviving your first low number on lantus. It gets easier I promise. You are seeing an expected bounce. I’d reduce by .25. Some people shoot through the bounce which means to shoot the 2 units this morning and then 1.75 tonight but I never had the guts to do that.
 
HI,

I will not shoot the 2 units after what happened.
He is in the blacks right now, Alpha track saying HI.
I am bringing him to the vet for monitoring, he's very weak, drinks a lot...

How long can these crazy numbers stay up? Can it be life threatening?
 
He will come down. It’s not life threatening to he in high numbers unless he has ketones. He’s bouncing from the low number. As he gets used to more normal numbers the bouncing usually stops. The high carbs to bring him back up likely made the bounce higher. Max bounced for a year. Some never stop bouncing but the highs are lower. I understand your fear but leaving him at the vet really isn’t necessary. I’d never leave alone if under 100 on a pet meter unless coasting without food. Leaving alone when high for me meant a testing break for both of us.
 
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His ketones tested negative.

He is grumpy and tired. His numbers are back in the 400 (pre-shot), but now I don't know how I can go to sleep after what happened last night (I could sleep a little while he was at the vet). I am so scared of a new low number/drop episode.

Should I test every 2-3 hours tonight? What is a safe number at PM +3 so I can maybe try to sleep?
 
You have cut his dose in half and his numbers are high. Did your vet tell you to shoot 1 unit? He only had one green and went right back up so I doubt he will drop low tonight. Post his +3.
 
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