Worried!

[Ginalee]

My cat was just diagnosed a week ago, but everything my vet is doing/ saying-seems to be wrong according to what I'm reading. They sold me Hills dry food, which everybody is saying is junk and to not use it. They never said anything about testing myself and said remission was rare if ever. They want me to give him 5 units of insulin twice a day! I've managed the shots- if you do it while he's still eating, when he's almost done, he doesn't seem to mind it too bad. But I just hate this, both for him and me...how do you know what kind of diabetes he has or what kind of food to buy? Does he have to have a specific type of food for diabetes or just a wet cat food high in carbohydrates? All of this is confusing and expensive! And I feel ill equipped to deal with it properly.

 

[Karen&Rocket]

I'm newish here so I'm not going to give much advice, but a couple questions come to mind - how did they measure his BG? Was it a one-time measurement, a curve, or a fructosamine (average over a period of time) test? Tests at the vet's office can be higher due to stress. The one thing I do know is that almost all dry food is too high in carbs - you want to use low-carb, high protein wet foods. Many folks here feed Fancy Feast - pate varieties only. Flavors with gravy, etc. are too high carb. Best of luck to you and I'm sure other members will have some good advice for you. ^.^

 

[Ginalee]

I'm newish here so I'm not going to give much advice, but a couple questions come to mind - how did they measure his BG? Was it a one-time measurement, a curve, or a fructosamine (average over a period of time) test? Tests at the vet's office can be higher due to stress. The one thing I do know is that almost all dry food is too high in carbs - you want to use low-carb, high protein wet foods. Many folks here feed Fancy Feast - pate varieties only. Flavors with gravy, etc. are too high carb. Best of luck to you and I'm sure other members will have some good advice for you. ^.^

 

[Ginalee]

He had lost a bunch of weight and was drinking a ton of water so we knew something was wrong. As soon as we took him in, they took blood from his paw and told me his blood sugar was 562! They said he was diabetic and I'd have to start giving him insulin twice a day starting with 4 units. We did that and took him back 2 days later- they took more blood from his paw (stuck him like 4 times trying to get it!) And said it was 209 and to increase to 5 units. He was supposed to go back today to see what it was now but I had to reschedule it.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Hi Ginalee, stop and take a deep breath. It may be that your vet isn't very educated about feline diabetes which is unfortunate. However, you have found a place where you can get information and support while you are learning to care for your diabetic cat.

The 5 units of insulin does sound high for a starting dose. So, please hold off on injecting again until we can gather some more information about the type of insulin, what the test was that the vet did (as Keskat mentioned) and we can tell you about effective diabetic treatment.

We do recommend a low carb wet diet, many of us feed Fancy Feast classics and/or Friskies pates. No gravy or sauces. Does you cat usually eat a dry food? Do you also feed any canned food? It's important to know that changing a dry food eater to a wet low carb food eater should be done gradually, as that can lower blood sugar significantly.

You can learn to test kitty's blood sugar, and know what the blood sugar (BG for blood glucose) is before injecting, to be sure it's safe to inject. The blood sugar at vet was 562, then two days later 209, and they told you to increase the dose?

What kind of insulin please?

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

please listen to the advice here -- some have been managing diabetic cats for a dozen years, and THEY KNOW

seems pretty clear your vet doesn't have that day to day experience with feline diabetes .. especially about the rarity of remission
(look at the recent posts, we have several who just did)

though, at the dosage of insulin that the vet has prescribed, I can see why that's an unusual experience there

listen to Lou, and let us know all the information you've been given, we all want to help, each of us has been where you are now

welcome!

 

[Robert Vittetoe]

Trust the folks here that have been dealing with diabetic cats for many years. I’m fairly new. My Pinot was diagnosed on 6 June so I’m not smart enough to give a lot of advice. What really helped us was getting him on low carbohydrate wet fancy feast food and no hard food. Get a glucose meter and learn how to test blood glucose yourself. This is so important for determining insulin requirements. Pinot is hard to handle and I have to put on motorcycle gloves just to get him in a carrier for vet visits. I would have bet my house on 6 June there would be no way he was ever going to let us give him a shot or do a blood test on him. It hasn’t been easy but he is depending on me to do this. I know you can do it too. Take it one shot/blood test at a time. You got this!

 

[Myrtlesmum]

First take a deep breath. I know how overwhelming it feels. When my cat was first diagnosed I thought I would have a nervous breakdown, I still often feel like that. Things do get easier and everyone on this board is wonderful and will try so hard to give you help and good advice. At a reading of 209, 5 units of insulin sounds excessive. If you can post what kind of insulin (the name on the bottle/packaging) and what you are feeding we can try to help. Take things slowly, one step at a time.

 

[Panic]

You case sounds very familiar to what happened to me, down to the "cats hardly ever go into remission" bit, so let me tell you what I did, with the advice of everyone here!

1. Switching to a low-carb diet like Fancy Feast Classic or Friskies Pate is both cheaper and healthier.
2. Find out what insulin you are using on your kitty. Is it NPH, Vetsulin, ProZinc, Lantus, etc? Kitties almost always need a long lasting insulin like ProZinc or Lantus to manage their fast metabolism better. You will have better results with those.
3. Home-testing will help you figure out what your cat is doing day to day so you can see where you need to make dosage corrections and avoid emergency vet visits.
4. Your kitty definitely shouldn't be starting on a high dose like what your vet prescribed. I won't comment on how much you should switch to because there are much more experienced members that can guide you correctly, but you're in a good spot just starting out so you can make some changes. Once we find out the insulin your kitty is on other members should be able to properly tell you how to introduce a better diet (sometimes low-carb food will manage diabetes on its own, and even if not it will definitely lower it, so a lower dose will be needed) and a proper and safe dosage.

My own cat was over 600 when she was diagnosed and was up to 5 units very quickly but it caused complications - her body was fighting the high dose and it just made it look like she needed more insulin. Cue snowball effect where everything looked like it was worse than it actually was.

Everything's going to be okay. The people here will help you with everything, from food to low-cost supplies to advice. Don't feel like you have to learn everything at once but again, you're in a really good place right now. You can alter a lot of stuff this early on with proper guidance and get your kitty back on track in no time.

Your vet is not a bad person, just not up to date on feline diabetes, and it's fairly common among vets. You are your kitty's advocate so stopping here and learning is the best thing you could be doing for him. <3

 

[Bellasmom]

Hi Ginalee, stop and take a deep breath. It may be that your vet isn't very educated about feline diabetes which is unfortunate. However, you have found a place where you can get information and support while you are learning to care for your diabetic cat.

The 5 units of insulin does sound high for a starting dose. So, please hold off on injecting again until we can gather some more information about the type of insulin, what the test was that the vet did (as Keskat mentioned) and we can tell you about effective diabetic treatment.

We do recommend a low carb wet diet, many of us feed Fancy Feast classics and/or Friskies pates. No gravy or sauces. Does you cat usually eat a dry food? Do you also feed any canned food? It's important to know that changing a dry food eater to a wet low carb food eater should be done gradually, as that can lower blood sugar significantly.

You can learn to test kitty's blood sugar, and know what the blood sugar (BG for blood glucose) is before injecting, to be sure it's safe to inject. The blood sugar at vet was 562, then two days later 209, and they told you to increase the dose?

What kind of insulin please?

Yes, take the hills back to vet and get some fancy feast pate, the hills is high in carbs

 

[Bellasmom]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/dr-pierson-new-food-chart.174147/ Here is a food chart

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/ For setting up a spreadsheet

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/creating-a-fdmb-profile.159626/ Setting up a profile
And yes we need to know what kind of insulin kitty on

Go to Walmart and get the relion prime 9.99 and test strips 17.99 for 100 strips, relion lancets 100 for 2.50 I suggest u get this ASAP as you are shooting a high dose of insulin
We all have been in your spot and please any questions don’t hesitate to ask, there are wonderful people on here
I’m gonna tag someone for you @Kris & Teasel

 

[Ginalee]

Hi Ginalee, stop and take a deep breath. It may be that your vet isn't very educated about feline diabetes which is unfortunate. However, you have found a place where you can get information and support while you are learning to care for your diabetic cat.

The 5 units of insulin does sound high for a starting dose. So, please hold off on injecting again until we can gather some more information about the type of insulin, what the test was that the vet did (as Keskat mentioned) and we can tell you about effective diabetic treatment.

We do recommend a low carb wet diet, many of us feed Fancy Feast classics and/or Friskies pates. No gravy or sauces. Does you cat usually eat a dry food? Do you also feed any canned food? It's important to know that changing a dry food eater to a wet low carb food eater should be done gradually, as that can lower blood sugar significantly.

You can learn to test kitty's blood sugar, and know what the blood sugar (BG for blood glucose) is before injecting, to be sure it's safe to inject. The blood sugar at vet was 562, then two days later 209, and they told you to increase the dose?

What kind of insulin please?

First take a deep breath. I know how overwhelming it feels. When my cat was first diagnosed I thought I would have a nervous breakdown, I still often feel like that. Things do get easier and everyone on this board is wonderful and will try so hard to give you help and good advice. At a reading of 209, 5 units of insulin sounds excessive. If you can post what kind of insulin (the name on the bottle/packaging) and what you are feeding we can try to help. Take things slowly, one step at a time.

 

[Amina&M'row]

Welcome! You are in the right place here on felinediabetes.com. Please let us know what kind of insulin. I was so shocked six months ago when M'row was diagnosed and I learned many vets just dont know much at all about diabetes. Somehow this doesnt prevent them dispensing bogus comments, however! All the above replies (except those in the last five minutes or so; haven't seen them yet) are really wise. Yes, take deep breaths! I was so stressed the first two months, I can tell you!! M'row loves his fancy feast pate, lots of cats achieve remission, don't feed dry food (too much carbohydrate, see Dr. Lisa report above on what canned foods contain how much carbs vs protein), learn to home test. M'row gets insulin twice in 24 hours, and our routine is test blood glucose, then inject insulin, then feed. Like many (but not all) cats, he's a nibbler, so he has food available most of the time. Welcome again! Time will pass, and suddenly everything will be all great. Odd fact I read: well managed feline diabetes (keep learning here) does not shorten Kitty's life expectancy

 

[Amina&M'row]

And I love the ReLion Prime too; affordable to buy, strips (which are the real long term cost) also very inexpensive, consistent results when I re-test right away, and rugged. I have bounced mine off my hard floors so many times, and it's still fine. Most folks here use human meters, no need to get a pet one but some people like them. Get ReLion at Walmart.

 

[Idjit's mom]

Ginalee, have you found the name of the insulin you have given your cat? I see that you have clicked the reply button, but that only quoted myself and another member, without adding any response from you. It's important for us to know what kind of insulin so that we can give you correct information.

 

[Diane Tyler's Mom GA]

I just looked on her profile and in her information it says he's on Vetsulin

 

[Ginalee]

It says Vetsulin on the box. He will eat anything you give him. He's mainly had dry food over the coarse of the last 3 years with an occasional can here and there. He will eat either but loves the can food.
For the first 2 days, after being diagnosed- he ate Purina MD can food (red label). They wanted me to get a 30 dollar bag of dry food but I didnt have the money, (royal something maybe? ) so they sold me the can food. When we went back 2 days later, we wanted to get the dry they tried to sale us the first time but they were sold out so we got a 21 dollar bag-the Hills. So we started feeding him that mostly with some can food mixed in every other until the cans we had bought the first visit were gone. Since then, he's only had the dry food Hills prescription diet weight reduction r/d
It says Vetsulin on the box. He will eat anything you give him. He's mainly had dry food over the coarse of the last 3 years with an occasional can here and there. He will eat either but loves the can food.
For the first 2 days, after being diagnosed- he ate Purina MD can food (red label). They wanted me to get a 30 dollar bag of dry food but I didnt have the money, (royal something maybe? ) so they sold me the can food. When we went back 2 days later, we wanted to get the dry they tried to sale us the first time but they were sold out so we got a 21 dollar bag-the Hills. So we started feeding him that mostly with some can food mixed in every other until the cans we had bought the first visit were gone. Since then, he's only had the dry food Hills prescription diet weight reduction r/d

I just looked on her profile and in her information it says he's on Vetsulin

Ginalee, have you found the name of the insulin you have given your cat? I see that you have clicked the reply button, but that only quoted myself and another member, without adding any response from you. It's important for us to know what kind of insulin so that we can give you correct information.

I just looked on her profile and in her information it says he's on Vetsulin

I just looked on her profile and in her information it says he's on Vetsulin

Test

I just looked on her profile and in her information it says he's on Vetsulin

 

[Ginalee]

It says Vetsulin on the box. He will eat anything you give him. He's mainly had dry food over the coarse of the last 3 years with an occasional can here and there. He will eat either but loves the can food.
For the first 2 days, after being diagnosed- he ate Purina MD can food (red label). They wanted me to get a 30 dollar bag of dry food but I didnt have the money, (royal something maybe? ) so they sold me the can food. When we went back 2 days later, we wanted to get the dry they tried to sale us the first time but they were sold out so we got a 21 dollar bag-the Hills. So we started feeding him that mostly with some can food mixed in every other until the cans we had bought the first visit were gone. Since then, he's only had the dry food Hills prescription diet weight reduction r/d

 

[Idjit's mom]

Ginalee, you have created a profile and provided information, thank you. However, if you will look at the bottom part of our posts you will see light grey text with information about our cats. This is called the signature and shows whenever we post and it's very handy to have it right there with every post.
Could you please take another few minutes and create that "signature" please.

Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

Chubbs deserves the best care you can give him, and we want to help you do that. We test our cat's blood to see what the blood sugar is before we inject insulin and during the 12 hours between shots. Most of us use the cat's ears as the testing site, it's easier to get blood there than the paw. You can get a low cost glucose meter, strips and lancets at Walmart, if you have one in your area. That's the ReliOn Prime meter.

Take a look at this link to see how we test our cats:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
It does take patience and practice to get really good at the testing, but it's worth it. You know right then what the blood sugar is before you ever give an injection, and you don't have to take Chubbs to the vet for testing, which saves you money.

The Hills dry food is too high in carbohydrates for diabetic cats, but it's important to gradually reduce the dry food and introduce more wet food, as the change can lower the blood sugar quite a bit. You do not need to buy food from the vet, it's not the best for him, and it's too expensive. You should be testing his blood while you are changing food.

The 4 and 5 units of Vetsulin is very likely too high a dose for him. A usual starting dose is 1 unit 2 times a day. I am going to tag some veteran members that use that insulin to help out here. @MrWorfMen's Mom @JanetNJ and @Bron and Sheba because she knows more about FD than I do.

 

[Panic]

Thanks for letting us know! Okay I'm going to direct you to this link here, it is all about Vetsulin.

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/

It's important to read up on the type of insulin you're using because they act differently from each other. For example, Vetsulin is a bit of a harsh insulin to kitties (it was designed for dogs), so food must already be on board 20 to 30 minutes before dosing. If you boy prefers to eat while getting insulin, save a bit of his meal for when he's ready for his shot. On top of that it's usually a good idea to give him a snack 1-2 hours after insulin to prevent harsh blood glucose drops. Next be aware that Vetsulin doesn't usually last a full 12 hour cycle (though every cat is different, it may work perfectly for your kitty!) but most of the time it doesn't last long enough. @CandyH and Catcat has her boy on Vetsulin so if you have any specific Vetsulin questions I'm sure she could help. If you find that Vetsulin isn't lasting long enough, you can switch to a longer-lasting insulin such as ProZinc or Lantus. ProZinc is roughly $110 for a vial online so it's a great affordable insulin that does a good job IF you decide to make a change later on.

A lot of good experienced members have been pinged to your post so don't fear!

 

[Idjit's mom]

Here is the link to the Beginner's Guide to Vetsulin. http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/

Please start reading this information that is going to tell you about Vetsulin, how it works and the best way to use it.
This from the Beginner's Guide:

• Usually it’s best to start with a low dose of not more than one unit, twice a day.

 

[JanetNJ]

Canned pate foods is a better choice than the dry. Please only start with 1 unit twice a day. If you plan to test at home I have a video in my signature showing how I test my cat CC at home.

 

[MrWorfMen's Mom]

Hi and welcome to FDMB.

I see you have been getting lots of info already so I will try to keep this brief and simple.

The dose your vet prescribed is too high and needs to be lowered and I agree with Janet and Lou that a dose of 1u twice daily would be more appropriate and far safer for Chubbs unless he has had ketones or DKA. Did the vet say anything about ketones or DKA? If not, then I would lower the dose to 1u immediately. 5u of Vetsulin is a high dose for any cat let alone as a starting dose. The initial dose of Vetsulin would normally be held for a period of at least a week not 2 days so increasing that soon is nothing short of dangerous and even more so given the high starting dose.

Switching food from the higher carb dry to wet needs to be done carefully so please do not switch his diet to all wet food until you are able to home test his BG. We can help you learn to test.

You'll need to test before each shot having withdrawn all food at least 2 hours before this testing. After testing you feed Chubbs and wait 20 to 30 minutes before giving insulin. You also need to test mid cycle whenever you can to see how low the insulin is taking Chubb's BG. This is the best way to safely determine his insulin needs. Tests done in the vet's office are usually elevated, often by 100 points and sometimes as much as 200. We recommend skipping shots if BG is less than 200 until you get some data on how the insulin is working for Chubbs. Home testing will prevent overdosing that often occurs as a result of BG elevation due to stress at vet visits and will also save you money.

Last but not least, one BG test done in the vet's office is a questionable way to diagnose diabetes. While the symptoms you describe and his BG are certainly suggestive of diabetes, a fructosamine is a standard diagnostic to confirm the diagnosis.

 

[Bron and Sheba (GA)]

Hi and welcome. I agree that 5 units is way too much for a cat to start off on and Vstsulin drops the blood sugar level hard and fast.
I would go back and start over with 1 unit of insulin.
I would buy a human glucose meter and test before every shot and again 3 hours later to see how low the insulin is taking your kitty. Then you may have to test again depending on how low the blood sugar has dropped.
Others have recommended good meters.
@MrWorfMen's Mom has given you excellent advice.
Can you tell us if there were any ketones or DKA when he was diagnosed.
You have come to the right please for help and support.

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

also, about that expensive "prescription" food -- you CAN return it to the vet for a refund -- tell them your cat won't eat it/doesn't like it

vets have been convinced, by representatives of these formulas, that they are the BEST for diabetes -- but those who have monitored, cared for, and loved their sugarcats, know this is not the case -- these fancydancy formulas are way too high in carbohydrates for newly diagnosed diabetics -- and probably ANY diabetics

there are other foods on the market, closer to what a cat's body needs, cheaper, and helpful in getting the cat back towards normal values, with the help of some insulin as well .. FancyFeast works well, several of the formulas from 4Health and BlueWilderness do too, you've been given the link to Dr Pierson's analysis of most of the available canned foods, check particularly for the carbohydrate percentages -- many here do well on Friskies pates, turns out Catcat runs a little higher BG on it so I feed it at night to avoid hypo if the BG drops more than usual when I'm asleep

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf