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Ludes

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My cats diabetic. Had his teeth removed a month ago. Now I thought I was helping him by feeding him baby food but the vet told me he’s weeks now and had a low the other knight and can barley walk. She gave him sub q fluids and I feed by hand a fancy feast can of cat food and gave him his insulin. I hope he pulls thru. All he’s done since I’ve feed him was sleep.
 
Hi and welcome to FDMB. I saw in the Intro forum that you weren't certain how to start a thread, but you have done exactly that here. You can help us help you by setting up a signature so we know more about your cat and exactly what kind of treatment he has been getting.
Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

Are you testing his blood sugar at home so that you know how the insulin is affecting him? If not, we can help you learn, so that you can avoid hypos (low blood sugar) and intervene before it's critical. Testing the blood sugar is the best way to keep a "sugar" cat safe, and to know that the blood sugar is high enough to give the insulin.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Hi and welcome to FDMB. I saw in the Intro forum that you weren't certain how to start a thread, but you have done exactly that here. You can help us help you by setting up a signature so we know more about your cat and exactly what kind of treatment he has been getting.
Setting up your signature (light grey text under a post). Here's how:
click on your name in the upper right corner of this page
click on "signature" in the menu that drops down
type the following in the box that opens: kitty's name/age/date of diabetes diagnosis/insulin you're using and dosage amount /glucose meter you're using/what (s)he eats/any other meds or health issues (s)he has. You can add your name, and a geographic location (sometimes the time zone matters) Be sure to SAVE when you are finished.

Are you testing his blood sugar at home so that you know how the insulin is affecting him? If not, we can help you learn, so that you can avoid hypos (low blood sugar) and intervene before it's critical. Testing the blood sugar is the best way to keep a "sugar" cat safe, and to know that the blood sugar is high enough to give the insulin.
Click to expand...
The vet today said not to test. I did ask about changing his insulin to a more expensive brand that would level him out. If he makes it. He did get up today and wobble to his litter box to pee but he just laid in it and went. And the. He wobbled back to his bed. He’s got some fight in him still.
 
The vet told you not to test? I do not understand that. If you had diabetes, or your child had diabetes and you were injecting insulin, you would test the blood to be sure the blood sugar was high enough to give the injection and prevent a life threatening hypoglycemic event. You would not put your life or the life of your child in jeopardy. The same holds true for our furry family members. I have read of other vets telling clients not to test, and find it difficult to understand. If you are injecting insulin, you need to test.
My vet told me to test only midday a few times a week and Idjit did throw us a low blood sugar and started a hypo event. Thank goodness for this board that taught me differently, advised me on how to intervene and the hypo was not critical. Others have not bee so lucky, unfortunately.
It is going to be your decision, but you could be saving your cat's life by testing.
 
I swear, vets don't trust cats' caregivers -- have heard this same routine so many times -- even my new vet who wound up being more open minded, questioned my testing, questioned my choice of glucometer, questioned sage advice on this board, saying "but they aren't trained as vets"

sorry -- HOGWASH! :mad: --- no one but you has more love and care for your cat -- and most vets have had only the barest overview of feline diabetes and the care necessary to live with them day by day -- while members here have cared for cats with diabetes, successfully :joyful: -- for years and years

there are people here who have dealt with the same symptoms you are seeing, they KNOW what doesn't work, they know what might work, and everyone here is pulling for you and your cat :bighug:
 
Idjit's mom said:
The vet told you not to test? I do not understand that. If you had diabetes, or your child had diabetes and you were injecting insulin, you would test the blood to be sure the blood sugar was high enough to give the injection and prevent a life threatening hypoglycemic event. You would not put your life or the life of your child in jeopardy. The same holds true for our furry family members. I have read of other vets telling clients not to test, and find it difficult to understand. If you are injecting insulin, you need to test.
My vet told me to test only midday a few times a week and Idjit did throw us a low blood sugar and started a hypo event. Thank goodness for this board that taught me differently, advised me on how to intervene and the hypo was not critical. Others have not bee so lucky, unfortunately.
It is going to be your decision, but you could be saving your cat's life by testing.
Click to expand...
I think he getting ready to cross over soon. He feels warm and is feeble feeling. I just took him outside for about 10 minutes cause he always use to be so quick to sneak outside....sneakys his name.
 
I'm sorry if this is the end for Sneaky, but there still may be a chance to avoid that. If you have a Walmart nearby and can pick up a ReliOn Prime glucose meter, some testing strips and some 28 guage lancets you could test his blood and see if you need to raise his blood sugar immediately with some karo syrup, honey or maple syrup on his gums. Or do that right now and see if he responds! You could offer a tsp of high carb wet food with gravy, and keep the blood sugar up for a longer period of time.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
 
Idjit's mom said:
I'm sorry if this is the end for Sneaky, but there still may be a chance to avoid that. If you have a Walmart nearby and can pick up a ReliOn Prime glucose meter, some testing strips and some 28 guage lancets you could test his blood and see if you need to raise his blood sugar immediately with some karo syrup, honey or maple syrup on his gums. Or do that right now and see if he responds! You could offer a tsp of high carb wet food with gravy, and keep the blood sugar up for a longer period of time.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
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I did put about a half teaspoon of syrup on lips and under his tongue about an hour ago.
 
Even my son when he was back last weekend thought he was getting better. He had all his teeth pulled 1 month ago today. And he was acting like his old self again. Till Wednesday night about midnight he stumbled over and rolled over and wobbled on his front feet to his bed. The vet said he probably had a low then. Would that have done him in. At 2:10 today he got in his litter box and got back out then went over and ate some food. Then crawled into his bed again.
 
Any other advise I can try? Should I feed him some fancy fest food again. I gave him a whole can about 5:30 and they hydrated him at the vets with sub q. He hasn’t peed since 2 today and he pooped about 12. I have to get up at 4:30 to feed him and give insulin again.
 
I just got 36 ml of water into him and I had a baytral tablet from another cat I had at one time so I gave that to him. It can’t hurt him since it feels like he’s got a temperature.
 
I can't find what type of insulin you are giving or the dose but it sounds to me as if his blood sugar levels might be too low. I would definitely NOT give him any more insulin until you are able to test the blood sugars. I would give him some food, any food he will eat to try and bring up the blood sugar level. And give a drop of honey or Karo in with the food.
Has the vet taken his BSL ( blood sugar levels) at all in the past few days.?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I can't find what type of insulin you are giving or the dose but it sounds to me as if his blood sugar levels might be too low. I would definitely NOT give him any more insulin until you are able to test the blood sugars. I would give him some food, any food he will eat to try and bring up the blood sugar level. And give a drop of honey or Karo in with the food.
Has the vet taken his BSL ( blood sugar levels) at all in the past few days.?
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He gets NPH 1 unit twice a day. I will give him some food right now.
 
That is a harsh fast acting insulin and not suitable for cats.
I would go back to your vet and ask for some Lantus insulin which is much gentler insulin and longer lasting.
One other thing.....have you tested your kitty for ketones in the urine? If not, I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy, they are only about $10 or so and then you collect a urine and test it with the test strip. Read it exactly 15 seconds later against the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
That will eliminate ketones, then you can concentrate on getting a suitable insulin.
Giving a cat NPH and then saying not to test is negligent in my book.
If your vet won't change the insulin for you, I would change vets.
How is your kitty acting now?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
That is a harsh fast acting insulin and not suitable for cats.
I would go back to your vet and ask for some Lantus insulin which is much gentler insulin and longer lasting.
One other thing.....have you tested your kitty for ketones in the urine? If not, I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy, they are only about $10 or so and then you collect a urine and test it with the test strip. Read it exactly 15 seconds later against the side of the bottle. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
That will eliminate ketones, then you can concentrate on getting a suitable insulin.
Giving a cat NPH and then saying not to test is negligent in my book.
If your vet won't change the insulin for you, I would change vets.
How is your kitty acting now?
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It was another vet who had me get NPH, I asked the vet today about switching n she said ya if he gets over this ordeal. He didn’t resist when I fed him n I got another 3/4 of a can of fancy feast in him. I did buy those test strips about a month ago. It may be hard to get a sample if he won’t move to the litter box with nothing in it.
 
Ludes said:
It was another vet who had me get NPH, I asked the vet today about switching n she said ya if he gets over this ordeal. He didn’t resist when I fed him n I got another 3/4 of a can of fancy feast in him. I did buy those test strips about a month ago. It may be hard to get a sample if he won’t move to the litter box with nothing in it.
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Test when you can.
Are you able to buy a human test meter and learn to test the blood sugars?. It is far safer that way.
Has any vet tested the BSLs since starting the insulin?
 
This vet lady thought things were fine 5 weeks ago when she did a through blood panel on him before he got all his teeth pulled. She said all his looked well for him being 16 and diabetic.
 
Ludes said:
This vet lady thought things were fine 5 weeks ago when she did a through blood panel on him before he got all his teeth pulled. She said all his looked well for him being 16 and diabetic.
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Blood sugar levels change all the time, especially after insulin has been commenced. If he has had no testing since the commencement of insulin, that is disgraceful.
If I were you I would go out and buy a human meter. You can buy one called a ReliOn meter from Walmart which is good. Also get some lancets (size 26 or 28) to prick the ear and some cotton balls to hold behind the ear when you prick it and to hold over the prick when you finish. We can help you with learning to test the BSLs.
Try and get the Lantus insulin as soon as you can for the swap over. Itis not good to go without insulin for too long if the cat is diabetic. But don't start giving any more insulin until you or the vet has tested the BSL.
I have just seen in your profile that your kitty was getting 2 units of NPH insulin. Was that the starting dose? It should have been 1 unit.
How is your kitty (name?) feeling now?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Blood sugar levels change all the time, especially after insulin has been commenced. If he has had no testing since the commencement of insulin, that is disgraceful.
If I were you I would go out and buy a human meter. You can buy one called a ReliOn meter from Walmart which is good. Also get some lancets (size 26 or 28) to prick the ear and some cotton balls to hold behind the ear when you prick it and to hold over the prick when you finish. We can help you with learning to test the BSLs.
Try and get the Lantus insulin as soon as you can for the swap over. Itis not good to go without insulin for too long if the cat is diabetic. But don't start giving any more insulin until you or the vet has tested the BSL.
I have just seen in your profile that your kitty was getting 2 units of NPH insulin. Was that the starting dose? It should have been 1 unit.
How is your kitty (name?) feeling now?
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Sneaky......I think I was right yesterday. That cat n I said something to that vet right when I went in the room. His hind legs don’t work quite right is that neuropathy or could he have a blood clot? It had broke yet but this cat is panting just like another cat I had who had one break n he acted just like this is now! She said no I think the hind leg not working is from him being weak the baby food you were feeding him and not getting enough tarien in his diet. I may have spelled that t work wrong.
 
It takes more than a few weeks for lack of taurine to cause any problems.
The leg weakness is probably due to diabetic neuropathy. Is it both legs or just one.
Just keep feeding the fancy feast foods and make sure you have some high carb foods ( they usually have gravy in them and things like rice or potato starch or cornmeal.) also make sure you have some honey or Karo for any hypo events when you start back on insulin. Here is a link to how to treat a hypo and what you need. Print it off and put it on your frig for when you might need it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
How is your kitty feeling/ acting now?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
It takes more than a few weeks for lack of taurine to cause any problems.
The leg weakness is probably due to diabetic neuropathy. Is it both legs or just one.
Just keep feeding the fancy feast foods and make sure you have some high carb foods ( they usually have gravy in them and things like rice or potato starch or cornmeal.) also make sure you have some honey or Karo for any hypo events when you start back on insulin. Here is a link to how to treat a hypo and what you need. Print it off and put it on your frig for when you might need it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/
How is your kitty feeling/ acting now?
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Not very good, his body’s shutting now. He’s stopped panting n has pooped some. You think he’s going to make it? He can’t even lift his head. He hasn’t peed in 12 hours now.
 
you mentioned you had a bottle of Ketostix. If you could possibly get some urimeurineurine when he next goes and test for ketones, that would be very helpful.
You said he was eating didn't you and you manages to get him to drink?
Are there any vets open at all today where you live?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
you mentioned you had a bottle of Ketostix. If you could possibly get some urimeurineurine when he next goes and test for ketones, that would be very helpful.
You said he was eating didn't you and you manages to get him to drink?
Are there any vets open at all today where you live?
Click to expand...
No vets open. I have to go to work shortly. My boys coming down 160 miles in about an hour. I just syringe feed him again and syringed some water to him n will give him his insulin.
 
He hadn’t peed before I left for work and I gave him the insulin. He was panting anymore with his tongue out like he was earlier when I was on this site and he took a really nice poop before I left. Hopefully he’s still alive when my son gets here
 
Buy a bottle of Ketostix from a pharmacy or Walmart. Then you will need to grab a urine sample from your kitty. When you have a urine, dip the test strip in the urine and then EXACTLY 15 seconds later read the strip against the colours on the side of the bottle. Make sure to read it in a good light.
Is your son feeding your kitty while you are at work?
 
Sorry I thought you were talking about the ketone test.
You mean the blood sugar test right?
We get the test from the ear not the paw. @Idjit's mom will explain it to you as it is 2am here and I must get to bed.
 
I gave you the links to the blood sugar testing which is VERY important for you to do. You said you had a meter I think, but if you don't get a ReliOn Prime meter from Walmart, testing strips and 26 or 28 gauge lancets. It is very important that you NOT give any more insulin now, you need to test and see what the blood sugar level is. You can kill Sneaky if you give him insulin when his blood sugar is too low.
Click on the links:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

Test Sneaky now and we can go from there.

@MrWorfMen's Mom
 
Ludes said:
Ok. You can buy these al Walmart correct? How do I prickle his paw and do the reading? Should I check it before or after he eats? Thank you
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You can also get blood from the ear. There is a vein that runs along the edge of the ear. You want to try pricking between the vein and the outer edge of the ear. If you do get the vein don't worry, you will just get more than you need. Have a napkin ready when you test to help stop the bleeding if you do hit the vein.

You should always test before giving insulin and either before or at the same time he is eating.
 
I'm just catching up on things here. Didn't get the tag for some reason.

I agree with everyone here that Sneaky needs to be checked for ketones but my suspicion is that the dental extractions have had a significant lowering effect on BG and Sneaky's BG is repeatedly going too low and his defence system against low BG is being seriously taxed. I'd try getting as much high carb food into him as possible (adding karo to low carb if need be) to see if he perks up at all. I'd also push fluids into him by way of syringing a bit of water carefully into the side pouch of his mouth frequently and adding water to his food.

It would be best to get Sneaky to the vet but given that isn't possible, I'd definitely second the recommendation to get a glucometer and start testing him ASAP and not giving anymore insulin until his BG level is known. Since Sneaky is not peeing and getting a sample may be difficult, there is the option to get a glucometer that tests for both glucose and ketones. The pharmacist should be able to assist in finding a glucometer with that option in your area. That way you can check both glucose and ketones at the same time.
 
Ludes said:
Ok. You can buy these al Walmart correct? How do I prickle his paw and do the reading? Should I check it before or after he eats? Thank you
Click to expand...
Can you tell me how to take a reading for cats blood glucose and what I all need to buy. Another gal said you would know and you prick them in the ear. Thank you
 
Click on this link to view videos of how to test Sneaky:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/

Read this very important information about hypos..very low blood sugar that we suspect Sneaky is having.
Go to Walmart, buy a ReliOn Prime meter, ReliOn Prime test strips and 28 gauge lancets.
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d16d184b-1f7c-4d1b-8ae3-74487e665bcd_1.c1b0dbdd9c02d7b47a147715978d07e1.jpeg
 
sorry the pictures came out so big, but these are the supplies you need, plus some cotton balls. You need to test Sneaky now, and not give any more insulin until we know he's safe.
 
MrWorfMen's Mom said:
I'm just catching up on things here. Didn't get the tag for some reason.

I agree with everyone here that Sneaky needs to be checked for ketones but my suspicion is that the dental extractions have had a significant lowering effect on BG and Sneaky's BG is repeatedly going too low and his defence system against low BG is being seriously taxed. I'd try getting as much high carb food into him as possible (adding karo to low carb if need be) to see if he perks up at all. I'd also push fluids into him by way of syringing a bit of water carefully into the side pouch of his mouth frequently and adding water to his food.

It would be best to get Sneaky to the vet but given that isn't possible, I'd definitely second the recommendation to get a glucometer and start testing him ASAP and not giving anymore insulin until his BG level is known. Since Sneaky is not peeing and getting a sample may be difficult, there is the option to get a glucometer that tests for both glucose and ketones. The pharmacist should be able to assist in finding a glucometer with that option in your area. That way you can check both glucose and ketones at the same time.
Click to expand...
What kind of high carb good
 
Friskies Fillets or Shreds with Gravy is high carb, and you only offer a tsp at a time, so you don't fill him up too fast. You need to get a blood sugar test as soon as possible, to see what it is. He may not need too much if you don't give him any more insulin and the insulin clears from his system. Testing is critical right now.
 
Low carb food that is good for diabetics is Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies pates...no gravies or sauces. If Sneaky survives and does not need insulin in the future, he might be diet controlled with the right food.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Low carb food that is good for diabetics is Fancy Feast Classics or Friskies pates...no gravies or sauces. If Sneaky survives and does not need insulin in the future, he might be diet controlled with the right food.
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I gave him some syru again
 
Are you going to be able to get the glucose meter, strips and lancets and get a test? You are treating an unknown condition, you don't know how high or low the blood sugar is. If his blood sugar is high, and you are giving him syrup, you are only driving the blood sugar higher. You need to know.
 
Ludes said:
I gave him some syru again
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He has stopped his panting and tongue hanging out for now. I got a diabetic tester from my brothers house who was diabetic n passed away last year. The reader says e 4 I have to go by regular contour test strips.
 
Do whatever you need to do to get a blood sugar test as soon as possible, you are trying to save his life.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Are you going to be able to get the glucose meter, strips and lancets and get a test? You are treating an unknown condition, you don't know how high or low the blood sugar is. If his blood sugar is high, and you are giving him syrup, you are only driving the blood sugar higher. You need to know.
Click to expand...
So when I get the right strips when should I test him then?
 
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