Need dosing advice on Lantus

Welcome to Spooky and you !
A few questions:
Which protocol are you following: SLGS or TR ? Looks like TR, because you're testing a lot, feeding LC wet food and don't mention any dry food! Pls confirm!
Is your vet taking care of the dosing actually or are you doing it on your own?

Just change the title of your post:
At the top right click on "Thread Tools" and "Edit title" and right beside the word TITLE, you will see "no prefix", click on that and choose ?, SAVE.

I'm not a dosing expert but I will tag some : @Tracey&Jones (GA) ; @Bobbie And Bubba
If they are not available, the ? in your title will bring more attention to your post and someone else will be able to help!
 
Just a question....what does needle juice mean?


Lantus is different from vetsulin as it is a depot insulin. What that means is that the body takes so much of the insulin for the current cycle (12 hours) and stores the rest to be used as needed. It takes about 6-8 cycles to get that depot stabilized - something like a dose of stored insulin to be used. That is the beauty of Lantus as it makes for more even and stable curves.

Looking at your spreadsheet I see skipped shots, different doses and we need to find something that allows you to shoot every shot and still keeps kitty safe.

I am thinking that the dose you are using right now 0.1 isn't quite getting Spooky where he needs to go but hard to tell with the different doseing. I am thinking to stay with 0.1u and holding that dose until we see numbers that warrants a change. It would be nice to see if you can shoot every time and see the results. If you are worried about shooting a low number, just put a ? on your thread and "low PS" stalling looking for advice. Someone will come along and stay with you to shoot those blue numbers and help you along. Lantus needs that consistency to work best.

I know you are new to Lantus but have you had a chance to read the information at the top of the forum about TR or SLGS? If you can decide on a method you want to use it will help with dosing advice.

ETA: I hope someone else comes along to get a second opinion.
 
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Hey there! I agree with Tracey that the 0.1 unit dose isn't cutting it for Spooky.

I've got a few questions:

What do you mean on your SS that says "conversion"?

What meter are you using? AT2 or human?

What protocol?/ method are you following?

Let's get that info on you and Spooky and we can go from there and help you. It appears that you have been skipping some nice numbers to shoot for whichever method/protocol you are following.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey there! I agree with Tracey that the 0.1 unit dose isn't cutting it for Spooky.

I've got a few questions:

What do you mean on your SS that says "conversion"?

What meter are you using? AT2 or human?

What protocol?/ method are you following?

Let's get that info on you and Spooky and we can go from there and help you. It appears that you have been skipping some nice numbers to shoot for whichever method/protocol you are following.
Click to expand...

I usually only test Spooky's bs 5X a day, but I never know what he's going to do anymore,so I've been testing more often. The vet started him on 1U, but that was too much for him. When I tested him at 6:10pm, he was 408 and he only took a couple bites of his FF LC food. I don't feed him any hard food because its all too high carb. His shot time is coming up around 8:30pm. Can you advise me on what dose I should give him? I have the 1/2 marking syringes.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Are you using a human meter or a pet meter?

ETA: also what does conversion mean on your SS?
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Conversion means I was using a syringe with 1U markings. Now I use the 1/2 marking syringes so no longer use the conversion. I'm using a human meter. When Spooky's been in the low 100's, I've been scared to shoot because he might go too low. I'm waiting for him to use the litter box so I can get a ketone test. This evening he's not acting himself. At 6:10pm, his blood sugar was 408, he only took a couple bites of his food, he stands at the water bowl but won't drink and I tried to give him a toy rolled in catnip and he wants nothing to do with it. He's acting the same way before he was diagnosed with diabetes. This is scaring me! He gets tested again at 8:00pm and his shot at 8:30. What dose do you think I should give him tonight?
 
Are you using U100 syringes ?(hopefully) You don't say. I was started on vetsulin and when I switched to lantus i didnt switch out my syringes and thankfully a savy member thought to ask me and which could have been disasterous because vetsulin is a U40 insulin and Lantus is a U100 insulin, but it was caught early.
 
Sybil and Zoe said:
Are you using U100 syringes ?(hopefully) You don't say. I was started on vetsulin and when I switched to lantus i didnt switch out my syringes and thankfully a savy member thought to ask me and which could have been disasterous because vetsulin is a U40 insulin and Lantus is a U100 insulin, but it was caught early.
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Yes, I'm using the U100 syringes with the Lantus.
 
When using a syringe with 1 unit markings or a syringe with 1/2 unit markings, there is no conversion necessary as long as both of those syringes are U 100 syringes, ( orange caps)

Has Spooky ever had DKA? It is important to get him to eat. Here is a list of things you can try to get him to eat

Sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. I have added Young Again Zero carb.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

With the dosing so far all over the place, it's a bit hard to know where he should be dose wise. Is he at a good weight? Most cats are started off at around 1 unit if following Tight regulation. When you had said that 1 unit had been too much for him, I didn't see any evidence of that on the SS with the data you has so far. I do understand when they start to get into green numbers, it is scary. But, when they first start getting there, there usually will bounce higher from their livers go into panic mode and releasing some glycogen into the bloodstream in an attempt to bring their BG up. Using a human meter, you won't reduce the dose unless he goes under 50.

You should have on hand some higher carb food ( anything over 10% carbs) to use if you need to steer him. When in doubt, post and ask for help and eyes on your thread.

How about going back to at least .50 unit tonight as long as you can monitor. All the data you can get will be helpful to know what would be a good dose. We can adjust accordingly. I would hold the .50 unit dose for at least one week unless he goes under 50.
 
Bobbie And Bubba said:
When using a syringe with 1 unit markings or a syringe with 1/2 unit markings, there is no conversion necessary as long as both of those syringes are U 100 syringes, ( orange caps)

Has Spooky ever had DKA? It is important to get him to eat. Here is a list of things you can try to get him to eat

Sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. I have added Young Again Zero carb.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

With the dosing so far all over the place, it's a bit hard to know where he should be dose wise. Is he at a good weight? Most cats are started off at around 1 unit if following Tight regulation. When you had said that 1 unit had been too much for him, I didn't see any evidence of that on the SS with the data you has so far. I do understand when they start to get into green numbers, it is scary. But, when they first start getting there, there usually will bounce higher from their livers go into panic mode and releasing some glycogen into the bloodstream in an attempt to bring their BG up. Using a human meter, you won't reduce the dose unless he goes under 50.

You should have on hand some higher carb food ( anything over 10% carbs) to use if you need to steer him. When in doubt, post and ask for help and eyes on your thread.

How about going back to at least .50 unit tonight as long as you can monitor. All the data you can get will be helpful to know what would be a good dose. We can adjust accordingly. I would hold the .50 unit dose for at least one week unless he goes under 50.
Click to expand...
Bobbie And Bubba said:
When using a syringe with 1 unit markings or a syringe with 1/2 unit markings, there is no conversion necessary as long as both of those syringes are U 100 syringes, ( orange caps)

Has Spooky ever had DKA? It is important to get him to eat. Here is a list of things you can try to get him to eat

Sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. I have added Young Again Zero carb.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

With the dosing so far all over the place, it's a bit hard to know where he should be dose wise. Is he at a good weight? Most cats are started off at around 1 unit if following Tight regulation. When you had said that 1 unit had been too much for him, I didn't see any evidence of that on the SS with the data you has so far. I do understand when they start to get into green numbers, it is scary. But, when they first start getting there, there usually will bounce higher from their livers go into panic mode and releasing some glycogen into the bloodstream in an attempt to bring their BG up. Using a human meter, you won't reduce the dose unless he goes under 50.

You should have on hand some higher carb food ( anything over 10% carbs) to use if you need to steer him. When in doubt, post and ask for help and eyes on your thread.

How about going back to at least .50 unit tonight as long as you can monitor. All the data you can get will be helpful to know what would be a good dose. We can adjust accordingly. I would hold the .50 unit dose for at least one week unless he goes under 50.
Click to expand...

I Will try him on .50 and see how that goes. I just tested him again, and now he's 454. I'm thinking he's getting sick from his diabetes just by the way he's acting and his high numbers
 
Jinxy said:
This is scaring me! He gets tested again at 8:00pm and his shot at 8:30. What dose do you think I should give him tonight?
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I hear you, I do!
While you are getting (other) good information, what you are asking now is what do I shoot :woot:- you want to shoot tonight- not skip again?
I understand. I absolutely do-
BTW, you are doing a good job! There is so much to learn (so quick :eek:), I know this too.
Breathe.
 
Jinxy said:
I Will try him on .50 and see how that goes. I just tested him again, and now he's 454. I'm thinking he's getting sick from his diabetes just by the way he's acting and his high numbers
Click to expand...

Would you be able to assist me with how much .50 is on the U100 - 1/2 marking syringe is? I want to make sure I get it right and not give him too much
 
@Krystina & Nelli I’m not sure why I don’t receive tags. I agree she should shoot.50 IF she as really been shooting less but I wonder if she’s been shooting 1 unit and calling it something else.

Jinxy,can you take a picture of what you are injecting?
 
This is what I gave Spooky tonight. I think that's .50 so I hope I'm right.
 

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tiffmaxee said:
Good job uploading. It looks to me like one unit. Is that what you have been giving?

It’s not too much so don’t worry.[/QUOTE

This is what I've been giving him lately
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Jinxy said:
Yeah, that's what I gave him at 8:40pm. I had to shoot then because otherwise it would have been too late. He was 454 @8:05, so I will test him again at 10:00pm and let you know what he is then.
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At 10:00pm he was 424
Jinxy said:
Yeah, that's what I gave him at 8:40pm. I had to shoot then because otherwise it would have been too late. He was 454 @8:05, so I will test him again at 10:00pm and let you know what he is then.
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At 10:00pm he was 424
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
You are... OK ;)
How is Jinxy feeling? Eating, drinking... at all lethargic?
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I'm Jinxy, my diabetic cats name is Spooky. An easy mistake since I haven't mentioned his name much. He went from 454 to 424 in one hour and 20 minutes. I plan on checking his bs every hour for awhile. He's a little lethargic and only takes a couple bites of soft food every now and then. Maybe he'll be more hungry when his bs goes lower
 
Spooky has gone up 6 points in one hour to 431, but sometimes he'll go up the first few hours before he goes down. He takes a little drink of water now and then and I gave him a little spoon of food at 10:30pm. Do you think I should give him a little bit of food at a time, or let him eat more if he wants to?
 
Jinxy said:
I'm Jinxy, my diabetic cats name is Spooky. An easy mistake since I haven't mentioned his name much. He went from 454 to 424 in one hour and 20 minutes. I plan on checking his bs every hour for awhile. He's a little lethargic and only takes a couple bites of soft food every now and then. Maybe he'll be more hungry when his bs goes lower
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Gosh... Jinxy. I knew that :rolleyes:. I’m very tired please forgive.
Gonna leave you for now... with this- you are doin a very good job :bighug:.
Getting Spooky on the right track (dosing path) is first. There is SO, SOOOO much to set up and get done- now, quicker... a large lifestyle change. Believe me.

I am Nelli’s S.O.L.E caretaker. No hubby, shift-help, don’t work at home 24/7... don’t have a life since Nelli fell ill (Diabetes brought on by a Vet steroid injection :( :blackeye:). But, for me this is ok :). Nelli is my world by absolute choice :bighug:

Again, you are doing a great job- as you’ve been running somewhat (without) blind while on this trip... so far ;). There are many amazing-ly helpful, caring peeps on the Lantus board. You’ll see ;)
“Things” will get better. “Things” will be ok :bighug:
 
Jinxy said:
he'll go up the first few hours before he goes down
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Nelli does this too. Not all kitties onset at same time. Many (do) start this onsetting (insulin kicking in) at about +2. Not all. Nelli doesn’t onset until at least +3.
 
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He’s going to be very hungry with high or low numbers. You can feed him. Max always went up after eating. Meter variance into account 7 points is flat.
 
Jinxy said:
Do you think I should give him a little bit of food at a time, or let him eat more if he wants to?
Click to expand...
it’s ( usually) always best to feed many meals throughout day... if possible. Not always the case for me-. I try to feed Nelli 2oz AM, small snack mid AM, 1oz MID, small snack mid, mid then another 2oz PM... maybe a small snack before bedtime.
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Nelli does this too. Not all kitties onset at same time. Many (do) start this onsetting (insulin kicking in) at about +2. Not all. Nelli doesn’t onset until at least +3.
Click to expand...

Good info to know. I'm super tired, so am going to bed now. But I have my alarm set for every 2 hours to check his bs. Will update you in the morning. Sleep well and I'll try and do the same.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I think you can stop testing for tonight.
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I planned on testing every 2 hours during the night just to see what his blood sugars are at during the different times. It would just make me feel better. I'm still a nervous mommy sometimes.
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Truly, like Elise (tiffmaxee) said... stop testing for the night. Spooky is going to be ok til you wake in morning :cat:.
I too am signing off- super tired.
I’ll check in, in morn :)
Ciao
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I don't know if you're around, but Spooky is doing better today. I think I know what happened yesterday. Spooky got into his sisters hard food that was sitting on top a small fridge. I caught him in the act last night, so he must have went up there at some point when I wasn't looking and indulged himself. At 8:00 this morning, Spooky's bs was 348 and at 10:00 he was 257. I gave him less insulin than I did last night because I don't believe he needs the 1U I gave him. I will send you a pic and could you tell me how much I gave him this morning?
 

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