? Neuropathy/Insulin dosage??

[Roops]

Our boy, Roops was dx with diabetes sometime in January of this year. We had 3 blood curve tests done at the vet's office. He started out with 1 unit of Prozinc and gradually moved up to 5 units because his numbers were not coming down. We continued this dosage.

At some point we noticed a weakness in his back legs. We eventually asked the vet if this could be neuropathy. Prior to this when we noticed a favoring in his back legs... we asked the vet what was wrong. he suggested inflammation. We were right. It was neuropathy.

Since then the neuropathy has become increasing worse despite receiving treatment. It is to the point where we carry him up/down the stairs if we hear him, lift him up onto chairs and other furniture. He walks a few steps and lays down to rest. He walks at most 5 feet before laying down. It has now advanced to his front legs. We have not begun giving him B12 but hope to find a equivalent to zobaline soon. To the best of our knowledge Zobaline is not available up here, and is not shipped up here.

We have begun testing his blood at home. Prior to his insulin shot in the morning, his blood sugar was about 18.9earlier this week. A fair bit lower (33+) than when he was first diagnosed, or during blood curves at the vet's office in January, February and March. No doubt the stress of being in a strange place and the car ride there and back elevated his blood sugar levels.

We are now slowly decreasing the dosage amount believing he may be on too high of a dose. We are currently giving him 4 units every 12 hours. We are also trying to ween him off dry kibble. Currently he is getting Purina Pro Plan Vet OW management kibbles and Friskies pate. He gets treats like Temptations sparingly.

My question...is it possible that an overdose or too high of a dose of insulin taken on a daily basis could make his neuropathy worse over time. Also aside from B12 is there anything that can be given to diabetic cats with neuropathy. We were giving him B12 but the wrong kind. Injection type. Aside from not eating wet canned cat food there is nothing else I can think of that we have not done, or are not doing. thank you for your help.

 

[Larry and Kitties]

To find the "correct" dose one has to find the lowest BG which for ProZinc is usually 5-6 hours after the shot. A dose too high can result in an elevated BG and is usually revealed by BG not decreasing after a shot.
Since you are home testing there is not reason for the vet to do curves. You can do them at home.
Most of use here uses a Google Docs spreads shee which is viewable by other to record BGs and doses.

 

[Julie and Honey]

Thanks @Larry and Kitties

Also copying @Djamila
Who knows about Prozinc.

Can anyone help with a little more guidance on dosing? Poor little Roops and his mom need help. They have been having problems for some time and this poor cat is not doing well.

If anyone can help.

@Jill & Alex (GA) not sure if you know someone?

Thanks all

 

[Lisa and Witn (GA)]

My suggestion is to start over with a low dose, 1 unit, and increase it by 1/2 unit at a time. Right now you may be bouncing and that is why you are seeing higher numbers. I'm not sure the amount of time you need to wait with ProZinc between dose changes to determine how well the dose is working. My suggestion is to wait a week before increasing the dose. ProZinc users can let you know if that wait time can be shortened. The goal is to find the lowest dose that works to keep the glucose levels controlled.

I also recommend that you start giving him methyl B12. One brand many members use is Zoboline. If you use a different brand make sure it is Methylcobalamin and not Cyanocobalamin. The second one doesn't work for neuropathy. Also it must not have any artificial sweeteners such as
Sorbitol.

By getting the glucose levels under control and adding the methyl B12, you should see an improvement in the neuropathy symptoms. Several years ago I adopted Spot who was an untreated diabetic with severe neuropathy. She could barely walk. I changed her diet, put her on insulin and the methyl B12. I started seeing improvement within a few weeks. Within 6 months you would have never known how bad her condition was. She was running and jumping on all over the place. So there is hope you will see improvement with Roops also.

 

[Djamila]

Hi there, Roops' mama!

Here is the link to the spreadsheet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

As soon as you get that set up and enter your most recent numbers, we can take a look and help with dosing. I wouldn't change the dose until we can see what's going on, and if he's on four units right now, definitely don't drop down to 1u. If he really needs 4u, that could put him at risk of DKA. Once we can see the data you've got, we'll have a better idea of if he needs more or less insulin.

Since you've been at this since January, I don't need data that far back -- just whatever you have from the past couple of weeks.

I would also encourage you to post in the Prozinc forum, as I don't check this forum unless someone tags me out here (thanks, Julie!).

And finally, the food is absolutely essential. You can't regulate a kitty, or get that neuropathy under control, without getting the food issue resolved. And believe me, I understand how hard it can be! My kitty was an absolute kibble addict when he was diagnosed and it was a painful process for us both to get him off of the crunchy high carb stuff. There is no way around it though if you want Roops to get better. We use Temptations to treat hypos. They are insanely high in carbs, and even just two of them can bring a kitty's BG way up. So put those in your hypo kit, and don't give any of them anymore. Treats are important though, so here are some diabetic friendly ones:

Bonito flakes – these are sold in some grocery stores as a human food. They are tissue-paper thin bits of fish and are easy to sprinkle on food to get a kitty to eat. They last forever and are the cheapest option.

https://www.amazon.com/Kaneso-Tokuy...akes/dp/B0052BGLMS/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

The next two are expensive, but they are good quality and they are more what you would consider a typical treat – something your kitty can actually bite into:

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Freeze-Dried-Wild-Salmon/dp/B005FFHLUM/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Dried-Chicken-Pet-Treat/dp/B00II6TGV2/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

These are probably my personal favorites as they look like what they are. Sometime a little too much so though in the case of the chicken hearts. It is an actual dried heart. I usually have to cut them into a couple of pieces since they are a little bit big and hard for the cats to bite into on their own. They also have little minnows that are the whole fish. And a variety of other options. Often the dog treats are a bit cheaper, and since it’s a whole, dried protein, it doesn’t make any difference if you buy the cat or the dog versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-F...cken/dp/B06XN61PYR/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

And these are good too, and a little less expensive than the catmandoo brand:

https://www.chewy.com/purebites-chicken-breast-freeze-dried/dp/53161

It doesn't matter if you get dog treats or cat treats when they are just freeze dried meat. That is purely marketing. Chicken is chicken and sometimes the dog treats are cheaper.

 

[Michele & Theo]

Hi ... my Theo has severe neuropathy as well. I looked into getting Zobaline for him but it isn't available in Canada and the costs to ship to Canada is expensive. We live in Ontario (Ottawa area). I brought info re Zobaline to my vet and discussed with him about having a compounding pharmacy prepare the formulation for me. He gave me the prescription and I had a local pharmacy make it. However, it is in powder form in capsules (rather than tablets that the actual Zobaline comes as) that I just pull apart and put on his food... there is no issue with taste. In addition, the formulation is only the methyl B12 and the folic acid (no other fillers). The compounding pharmacy used the info from the formula ratios posted on the website of the company that makes the Zobaline. Although I'm not yet seeing a great improvement (likely because his BG levels are still high. he is not getting worse (walks on his hocks; short distances etc); I bought a set of steps that he uses to get on the bed.. might be something to look into if you have compounding pharmacies in your area.

 

[Roops]

Michele and Theo
Thank you for sharing. I also live in the Ottawa area. My daughter ordered Zobaline online on the 16th from Lifelink but it has not arrived yet. We are eager to start this treatment. Rupie appears a healthy normal cat but for the neuropathy. His fur is soft again, and he is not losing weight as he was. But he cannot walk far without needing to lay down. And he no longer stands to eat/drink. It is most disheartening. We have thought and wondered about possible pain relief for him. This was not the case when he was diagnosed. His neuropathy was barely noticeable. He had ease and freedom to move. He could jump on beds and furniture. Now he needs help. The vet's office prescribed B12 (injectable) but it was the wrong stuff. It was to be given once a month. The girls in the vet office sold my daughter a bottle of B12 pills last Saturday but again it is the wrong stuff. It is Cobalequin and Folate 45. One pill a day. I crush it and try to hide it in his food. In the event the Zobaline does not arrive soon we will approach the vet's office about a prescription for Methylcobalamin as you have done. It is good to hear your pharmacy made it up for you. That is encouraging. We are in the process of trying to switch Rupie off dry cat food onto wet cat food. it is a struggle. He was on the same food as Theo. He did not like it and quickly developed digestive issues. We used a formula found on this site to determine the amount of carbs in IAMS Grain Free Perfect Portions, and other wet cat foods. I use this formula now to determine carbs in all foods now. Treats, dry kibble and other wet cat food. We have fed him Fancy Feast pate, and Friskies pate but Rupie has begun having more frequent digestive issues. We are also trying to gradually lower his insulin amounts. We believe he was overdosed by the vet's office. 5 units 2x per day. BS testing again today at home. Rupie has good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day. I hope you will see progress and a return to ease of walking in Theo very soon.

 

[Roops]

Hi there, Roops' mama!

Here is the link to the spreadsheet: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

As soon as you get that set up and enter your most recent numbers, we can take a look and help with dosing. I wouldn't change the dose until we can see what's going on, and if he's on four units right now, definitely don't drop down to 1u. If he really needs 4u, that could put him at risk of DKA. Once we can see the data you've got, we'll have a better idea of if he needs more or less insulin.

Since you've been at this since January, I don't need data that far back -- just whatever you have from the past couple of weeks.

I would also encourage you to post in the Prozinc forum, as I don't check this forum unless someone tags me out here (thanks, Julie!).

And finally, the food is absolutely essential. You can't regulate a kitty, or get that neuropathy under control, without getting the food issue resolved. And believe me, I understand how hard it can be! My kitty was an absolute kibble addict when he was diagnosed and it was a painful process for us both to get him off of the crunchy high carb stuff. There is no way around it though if you want Roops to get better. We use Temptations to treat hypos. They are insanely high in carbs, and even just two of them can bring a kitty's BG way up. So put those in your hypo kit, and don't give any of them anymore. Treats are important though, so here are some diabetic friendly ones:

Bonito flakes – these are sold in some grocery stores as a human food. They are tissue-paper thin bits of fish and are easy to sprinkle on food to get a kitty to eat. They last forever and are the cheapest option.

https://www.amazon.com/Kaneso-Tokuyou-Hanakatsuo-Bonito-Flakes/dp/B0052BGLMS/ref=sr_1_3_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1516455184&sr=8-3&keywords=bonito flakes

The next two are expensive, but they are good quality and they are more what you would consider a typical treat – something your kitty can actually bite into:

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Freeze-Dried-Wild-Salmon/dp/B005FFHLUM/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1516455237&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=freeze dried salmon cat treat

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Dried-Chicken-Pet-Treat/dp/B00II6TGV2/ref=sr_1_6?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1516455268&sr=1-6&keywords=freeze dried chicken cat treat

These are probably my personal favorites as they look like what they are. Sometime a little too much so though in the case of the chicken hearts. It is an actual dried heart. I usually have to cut them into a couple of pieces since they are a little bit big and hard for the cats to bite into on their own. They also have little minnows that are the whole fish. And a variety of other options. Often the dog treats are a bit cheaper, and since it’s a whole, dried protein, it doesn’t make any difference if you buy the cat or the dog versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-Freeze-Dried-Natural-Chicken/dp/B06XN61PYR/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1516457805&sr=1-4&keywords=vital essential cat treats

And these are good too, and a little less expensive than the catmandoo brand:

https://www.chewy.com/purebites-chicken-breast-freeze-dried/dp/53161

It doesn't matter if you get dog treats or cat treats when they are just freeze dried meat. That is purely marketing. Chicken is chicken and sometimes the dog treats are cheaper.

thank you for the help, and the recommendations. Will be looking into the items you have suggested. A battle for sure trying to get him onto wet cat food. Seems every time we try something new he develops digestive issues. Fish is definitely out or in limited amounts. We are feeding him chicken based wet cat food. currently give him 3 and a 3/4 units of insulin. I will set the Temptations aside for emergencies. Same with Party Mix. I have noticed how greasy the later feels to touch. What is a good or desirable bs number at each reading.

 

[Michele & Theo]

Michele and Theo
Thank you for sharing. I also live in the Ottawa area. My daughter ordered Zobaline online on the 16th from Lifelink but it has not arrived yet. We are eager to start this treatment. Rupie appears a healthy normal cat but for the neuropathy. His fur is soft again, and he is not losing weight as he was. But he cannot walk far without needing to lay down. And he no longer stands to eat/drink. It is most disheartening. We have thought and wondered about possible pain relief for him. This was not the case when he was diagnosed. His neuropathy was barely noticeable. He had ease and freedom to move. He could jump on beds and furniture. Now he needs help. The vet's office prescribed B12 (injectable) but it was the wrong stuff. It was to be given once a month. The girls in the vet office sold my daughter a bottle of B12 pills last Saturday but again it is the wrong stuff. It is Cobalequin and Folate 45. One pill a day. I crush it and try to hide it in his food. In the event the Zobaline does not arrive soon we will approach the vet's office about a prescription for Methylcobalamin as you have done. It is good to hear your pharmacy made it up for you. That is encouraging. We are in the process of trying to switch Rupie off dry cat food onto wet cat food. it is a struggle. He was on the same food as Theo. He did not like it and quickly developed digestive issues. We used a formula found on this site to determine the amount of carbs in IAMS Grain Free Perfect Portions, and other wet cat foods. I use this formula now to determine carbs in all foods now. Treats, dry kibble and other wet cat food. We have fed him Fancy Feast pate, and Friskies pate but Rupie has begun having more frequent digestive issues. We are also trying to gradually lower his insulin amounts. We believe he was overdosed by the vet's office. 5 units 2x per day. BS testing again today at home. Rupie has good days and bad days. Yesterday was a bad day. I hope you will see progress and a return to ease of walking in Theo very soon.

Hi Roops...
Your issues with his neuropathy sound just like Theo,'s although he can still walk short distances and can jump up to his window hammock (only a short distance off the floor). I bought him some pet stairs so he can get onto the bed. It is terrible to watch him walk, but my vet said he does not believe he is in pain. As with Roops, his neuropathy got worse after we started treatment, but this may be because his glucose levels were/are still too high. His avg levels have dropped a bit in the last few weeks, so I'm hoping to also lower his insulin amounts (I will be posting a question in the Prozinc forum re this likely later today). If you do want info on how I discussed this with the vet and the compounding pharmacy I used just let me know and we can arrange to PM or email the info. My vet was quite open to trying it (he knew the B12 injections would not work). The compunding pharmacy can match the dose levels of the the active ingredients in the Zobaline which are very high and not found in over the counter formulations. It is a bit more expensive to have it compounded but in the long run much more convenient to just call them to refill the prescription.

Re food, have you tried the DM kibble from the vet? It is the same as the prescription canned variety, but in kibble form. It is still not recommended as a main food due to carbs, but carbs are lower than in commercial foods he is likely getting now with his kibble. Theo loves it and would eat nothing but the kibble if I let him (he used to eat only kibble before his diagnosis) but I use it as a treat or if he won't eat his regular food. Luckily he took to the wet food, but only the chunky/flaked style.... he will not touch a pate. He is also very picky on flavours... no chicken, turkey, beef... must be a fish (tuna, shrimp...). My biggest issue is that for some reason he will only eat certain lots of the vet DM wet food. We haven't been able to figure out how to tell which lot he will eat (he will not even taste some batches, but I don't know until I put it in front of him... I cringe every time I need a new case). I did use one of the lists of low carbohhydrate commercially available foods and found a line he will eat (Fancy Feast flaked fish & shrimp). I resort to this when he won't eat the prescription food.

all the best
Michele

 

[Roops]

Hi Roops...
Your issues with his neuropathy sound just like Theo,'s although he can still walk short distances and can jump up to his window hammock (only a short distance off the floor). I bought him some pet stairs so he can get onto the bed. It is terrible to watch him walk, but my vet said he does not believe he is in pain. As with Roops, his neuropathy got worse after we started treatment, but this may be because his glucose levels were/are still too high. His avg levels have dropped a bit in the last few weeks, so I'm hoping to also lower his insulin amounts (I will be posting a question in the Prozinc forum re this likely later today). If you do want info on how I discussed this with the vet and the compounding pharmacy I used just let me know and we can arrange to PM or email the info. My vet was quite open to trying it (he knew the B12 injections would not work). The compunding pharmacy can match the dose levels of the the active ingredients in the Zobaline which are very high and not found in over the counter formulations. It is a bit more expensive to have it compounded but in the long run much more convenient to just call them to refill the prescription.

Re food, have you tried the DM kibble from the vet? It is the same as the prescription canned variety, but in kibble form. It is still not recommended as a main food due to carbs, but carbs are lower than in commercial foods he is likely getting now with his kibble. Theo loves it and would eat nothing but the kibble if I let him (he used to eat only kibble before his diagnosis) but I use it as a treat or if he won't eat his regular food. Luckily he took to the wet food, but only the chunky/flaked style.... he will not touch a pate. He is also very picky on flavours... no chicken, turkey, beef... must be a fish (tuna, shrimp...). My biggest issue is that for some reason he will only eat certain lots of the vet DM wet food. We haven't been able to figure out how to tell which lot he will eat (he will not even taste some batches, but I don't know until I put it in front of him... I cringe every time I need a new case). I did use one of the lists of low carbohhydrate commercially available foods and found a line he will eat (Fancy Feast flaked fish & shrimp). I resort to this when he won't eat the prescription food.

all the best
Michele

Dear Michele
Our vet or one of them did not believe in b12 and it's effectiveness. but one of the vet's from the office did. Unfortunately they gave us B12 that is injected. Not what he needed. I sent them a message a week or so ago to order more Prozinc, and asked them at that time about zobaline. I asked them if they had it or the equivalent. They let us know that the Prozinc was in, but did not respond to my other question regarding zobaline. When we went to pick up his Prozinc...they had given it to someone else. We are still waiting on the zobaline to arrive from Lifelink? But the idea of having a pharmacy mix it is very appealing. As you say much more convenient. If our vet's office will not provide a prescription perhaps another nearby vet's office would.

We do not have a hassock for Roops to jump on or pet stairs. We lift him up onto things but encourage him to walk. We also play with him to keep his muscles moving. We hope to make him several baskets to lie in. better than the floor when we are not about to help him.

The vet tech sold us Purina DM Kibble when he was first diagnosed. Costly stuff. He did not like it but will eat it if mixed with other dry kibble. But I have some reservations. I found it upsets his digestive system. But this may be less what he eats, or the change in diet, and more the diabetes. He is never constipated. Quite the opposite. Especially when changing his food. But I know some people's medication for diabetes has this same effect on them. We also bought several cans of Purina OW management from the office. He does not like it. We found that it was not much better carb wise than Fancy Feast or Friskies pate. it was also a lot more expensive than Fancy Feast or Friskies. Fish related food seems to upset him. The vet's office wants him to lose more weight. He is between 17 and 18 pounds. Before he was diagnosed he was about 23 pounds. Thank you for your help.

 

[Michele & Theo]

Luckily Theo does not have digestive problems, just picky on flavors he will eat.
Don't hesitate to get on touch with me if you need/want info re the compounding pharmacy route.
Michele

 

[Roops]

Thank you Michele
Still waiting on the zobaline. Might be held at the border. We may just need the script from you for Methylcobalamin. Our vet's office will not prescribe it. Don't believe in it. They say there are no reports or documentation to support that it is helpful to cats with neuropathy. Can't say I am really surprised. Knew their were vets that felt this way. Not giving up. Resistance is futile. Might have to get my passport and drive across the border to pick it up. We are pushing wet cat food, and less and less kibble. It does make his bs spike. Although he still walks on his hocks, we all thought he was not walking as heavy. My daughter also thought he was not putting as much pressure on his elbows or front feet. Trying to take his blood sugar at home more frequently. Need to order in more strips.

 

[Margie and Jackson]

My vet said there have been no good experiments proving the b12 works, but is is supposed to be recommended for pancreatitis, which might be part of your cat’s problem. FortiFlora, a probiotic from Purina, is also great for digestive issues and cats love it, so it can be used to encourage them to eat

 

[Pandasmom]

Sorry to hijack --
Roops, Michelle & Theo...

I just wanted to wave Hello to the folks from Ottawa.
We're in Ottawa too, just starting this diabetes dance again with a new cat.

 

[Michele & Theo]

Thank you Michele
Still waiting on the zobaline. Might be held at the border. We may just need the script from you for Methylcobalamin. Our vet's office will not prescribe it. Don't believe in it. They say there are no reports or documentation to support that it is helpful to cats with neuropathy. Can't say I am really surprised. Knew their were vets that felt this way. Not giving up. Resistance is futile. Might have to get my passport and drive across the border to pick it up. We are pushing wet cat food, and less and less kibble. It does make his bs spike. Although he still walks on his hocks, we all thought he was not walking as heavy. My daughter also thought he was not putting as much pressure on his elbows or front feet. Trying to take his blood sugar at home more frequently. Need to order in more strips. View attachment 45132

Hi... interesting about the vet not even wanting to let you try something that could not hurt the cat to try and could possibly help!!! My vet was very open minded and more than willing to try; he even took the info down to do some reading and followup. I'd be happy to give you his name (I'm in the Barrhaven area). I agree.. don't give up!

 

[Roops]

We are south of you, in the Winchester area. My son suggested taking Roops to Quebec...and we would if it was not stressful on him. He hates the short distance we must drive to clinic. He cries before we are out the door and cries at the clinic. Cries so much he gets hoarse. Thankfully there is more than one vet in this area. Ordered more glucose strips online last night. His bs was high around noon yesterday. Found him sleeping near his water dish when we came home. I knew immediately or suspected something was wrong. We took his bs 2x to be sure accurate reading. 29 something. Not sure but thinking he got into the Whiskas kibble. Had a blood sugar spike. Came down to about 18 by the time his next shot was due. Okay this morning. Came to us about 3 this morning. Lifted him on bed. Began to purr immediately. Wanted attention. Sleeping beside me on a computer chair now. Has eaten his IAMS pate. Withholding all kibble. Better for the other kitty too. Ollie is about 15 and never had drank enough water.

 

[Roops]

Sorry to hijack --
Roops, Michelle & Theo...

I just wanted to wave Hello to the folks from Ottawa.
We're in Ottawa too, just starting this diabetes dance again with a new cat.

Hello Pandasmom
Do you foster kitties?
Great respect for those who do.
Takes a lot of commitment.

 

[Roops]

My vet said there have been no good experiments proving the b12 works, but is is supposed to be recommended for pancreatitis, which might be part of your cat’s problem. FortiFlora, a probiotic from Purina, is also great for digestive issues and cats love it, so it can be used to encourage them to eat

I don't think Rupie has pancreatitis. He was tested when he was first diagnosed. When he was first diagnosed we were having problems with him eating. He ate little. And that was so not him. Rupie always loved to eat. He gorged at times. He'd awaken, look about, meow and run to his dish. We called it sleep eating. He also always drank a lot from the get go. One of the vets prescribed FortiFlora for him. he said cats with diabetes sometimes have digestive problems. We gave him some yesterday on his pate. It might be something he requires on a regular basis. He is eating now but not like he did before. More restraint. Satisfied quicker. If it is possible, if cats are like people... he may have been a pre-diabetic for some time before it developed into diabetes.

 

[Michele & Theo]

We are south of you, in the Winchester area. My son suggested taking Roops to Quebec...and we would if it was not stressful on him. He hates the short distance we must drive to clinic. He cries before we are out the door and cries at the clinic. Cries so much he gets hoarse. Thankfully there is more than one vet in this area. Ordered more glucose strips online last night. His bs was high around noon yesterday. Found him sleeping near his water dish when we came home. I knew immediately or suspected something was wrong. We took his bs 2x to be sure accurate reading. 29 something. Not sure but thinking he got into the Whiskas kibble. Had a blood sugar spike. Came down to about 18 by the time his next shot was due. Okay this morning. Came to us about 3 this morning. Lifted him on bed. Began to purr immediately. Wanted attention. Sleeping beside me on a computer chair now. Has eaten his IAMS pate. Withholding all kibble. Better for the other kitty too. Ollie is about 15 and never had drank enough water.

Hi...my Theo has had high BG spikes over the past 2 days and I too think it was kibble, even though it was the DM kibble. I gave him some as treats both days... so back to a couple of loose kibbles on the floor as a treat instead of in a bowl allowing free feeding. Last night it was above what the meter would read and this morning it was nearly 27. He was quite ravenous and ate all his breakfast in record time and is sitting at the bowl looking for more.
Good luck with the VET... time to 'interview' them to see if they are open to new things. Heck, if family drs can interview us to see if they will take us on as a patient, we can do the same for our pets.
Have a good day... at least the sun is out this morning!
Michele

 

[Michele & Theo]

We are south of you, in the Winchester area. My son suggested taking Roops to Quebec...and we would if it was not stressful on him. He hates the short distance we must drive to clinic. He cries before we are out the door and cries at the clinic. Cries so much he gets hoarse. Thankfully there is more than one vet in this area. Ordered more glucose strips online last night. His bs was high around noon yesterday. Found him sleeping near his water dish when we came home. I knew immediately or suspected something was wrong. We took his bs 2x to be sure accurate reading. 29 something. Not sure but thinking he got into the Whiskas kibble. Had a blood sugar spike. Came down to about 18 by the time his next shot was due. Okay this morning. Came to us about 3 this morning. Lifted him on bed. Began to purr immediately. Wanted attention. Sleeping beside me on a computer chair now. Has eaten his IAMS pate. Withholding all kibble. Better for the other kitty too. Ollie is about 15 and never had drank enough water.

another quick question.. what online site do you order your test strips from? I've been getting mine at Costco, but it isn't really that much cheaper than Loblaws or the larger pharmacies.

 

[nslade001]

OK, aaaaargh! Vets! This is one of my major, major pet peeves with vets....I admit I have a few (I'm a retired AHT, so I also have some insider experience that contributes, lol).

Prescriptions. There should be regulations on what vets (I'm talking Canada, here) can do, because imho they should *not* be legally allowed to prescribe anything that is available over the counter (ie/ is not a prescription!!!) It's just yet another way vets try to (1) keep "medical control" over *our* companions, or (2) make money. Save it for your diabetic supplies lol.

Ask for their opinion, sure, if you want it...But keep in mind it's just one person's opinion.

We don't need a "prescription" for over-the-counter vitamin supplements. We can ask our pharmacist (if they compound) to do this. I admit, I order my zobaline from lifelink, but I buy multiple bottles at a time and don't mind supporting the only company that manufactures something like this, which has anecdotally helped so very many cats.

Lactulose, should you ever need it, also does not require a prescription. I get mine at Walmart where it cost less than $15 for 500mL, as opposed to the $25.50 for 15 mL "prescribed" and sold to me by my vet.

Fortiflora....Save a fortune and buy the box from Amazon. But please don't consider it a probiotic, think of it as a flavor-enhancer. $7 a package at the vet, just over $1 /pack online (for a whole pack of 30)

Insulin. .Same. we don't need a "prescription" for human insulins (Lantus, etc) or the syringes, available at pharmacies (unless it's a veterinary insulin like Caninsulin, which isn't the greatest for cats anyway).

Injectable vitamin B12...Pharmacy or online pet pharmacy.

SubQ supplies if you ever need them....Cheaper online. Or you may be lucky enough to have a medical supplier nearby you can pick them up. This includes the fluids, syringes, and needles, lines, etc....These do not require a prescription, nor do you need to buy them from a vet.

With a prescription from your vet, you can get many prescription drugs far, far cheaper online such as at petsdrugmart.com, or even your pharmacy (Costco, walmart, whatever ...Check around. You'll be surprised at the difference pricing between different companies) but in my experience most is cheaper than at the vet. Vets make a lot of money by marking up their drugs.

Be aware that many vets charge crazy prices to write or call in your prescription. See if you can get more prescriptions written at once for a cheaper charge, and get the most refills you can; clarify this before your vet finalizes it. They will charge every time, if they can.

Some vets charge less for writing prescriptions, and if your pet is on many prescription drugs, it may be cheaper to bring your cat in once to a vet for an exam just to use them as your "prescription vet" if you have that option. Call around.

And, if you're getting prescription drugs from your vet, check on pricing...Some charge the same for a month's supply of meds for kitty as they do for only 2 week's worth (so you'd end up going in twice and paying double than if you'd gotten a month's worth all at once).

Yes, first hand experience of price-gouging. It happens. Check around. I need to save all I can to pay for my glucose strips lol.

Sorry for the rant, but hope it helps someone with love, nikki

 

[nslade001]

Wow that was a long post, sorry lol!

 

[Jill & Alex (GA)]

And, if you're getting prescription drugs from your vet, check on pricing...Some charge the same for a month's supply of meds for kitty as they do for only 2 week's worth (so you'd end up going in twice and paying double than if you'd gotten a month's worth all at once).

Yes, first hand experience of price-gouging. It happens. Check around. I need to save all I can to pay for my glucose strips lol.

FYI: After having an honest discussion with my vet about my ability to buy meds and supplies elsewhere for less, my vet agreed to price match. I still had to call around or find the best prices online, but my time paid off. I $aved money and still had the convenience of picking up at my vet's (no shipping fees) and he kept my business. It was a win-win for both of us!

 

[nslade001]

FYI: After having an honest discussion with my vet about my ability to buy meds and supplies elsewhere for less, my vet agreed to price match. I still had to call around or find the best prices online, but my time paid off. I $aved money and still had the convenience of picking up at my vet's (no shipping fees) and he kept my business. It was a win-win for both of us!

Now, that's awesome, and I've honestly never considered it! It definitely would be more convenient, and since I'm doing the research on prices anyway, it's certainly no more work...Thanks! With love, nikki

 

[Roops]

another quick question.. what online site do you order your test strips from? I've been getting mine at Costco, but it isn't really that much cheaper than Loblaws or the larger pharmacies.

I think my daughter ordered them off Amazon. We need them. 2 left. Shipped by a 3rd party. haven't shipped them yet. Maybe we could get them from Costco. Never thought of that. Thanks for letting me know. His bs is high again today. Don't know what we are doing wrong. It's frustrating.

 

[Roops]

OK, aaaaargh! Vets! This is one of my major, major pet peeves with vets....I admit I have a few (I'm a retired AHT, so I also have some insider experience that contributes, lol).

Prescriptions. There should be regulations on what vets (I'm talking Canada, here) can do, because imho they should *not* be legally allowed to prescribe anything that is available over the counter (ie/ is not a prescription!!!) It's just yet another way vets try to (1) keep "medical control" over *our* companions, or (2) make money. Save it for your diabetic supplies lol.

Ask for their opinion, sure, if you want it...But keep in mind it's just one person's opinion.

We don't need a "prescription" for over-the-counter vitamin supplements. We can ask our pharmacist (if they compound) to do this. I admit, I order my zobaline from lifelink, but I buy multiple bottles at a time and don't mind supporting the only company that manufactures something like this, which has anecdotally helped so very many cats.

Lactulose, should you ever need it, also does not require a prescription. I get mine at Walmart where it cost less than $15 for 500mL, as opposed to the $25.50 for 15 mL "prescribed" and sold to me by my vet.

Fortiflora....Save a fortune and buy the box from Amazon. But please don't consider it a probiotic, think of it as a flavor-enhancer. $7 a package at the vet, just over $1 /pack online (for a whole pack of 30)

Insulin. .Same. we don't need a "prescription" for human insulins (Lantus, etc) or the syringes, available at pharmacies (unless it's a veterinary insulin like Caninsulin, which isn't the greatest for cats anyway).

Injectable vitamin B12...Pharmacy or online pet pharmacy.


SubQ supplies if you ever need them....Cheaper online. Or you may be lucky enough to have a medical supplier nearby you can pick them up. This includes the fluids, syringes, and needles, lines, etc....These do not require a prescription, nor do you need to buy them from a vet.

With a prescription from your vet, you can get many prescription drugs far, far cheaper online such as at petsdrugmart.com, or even your pharmacy (Costco, walmart, whatever ...Check around. You'll be surprised at the difference pricing between different companies) but in my experience most is cheaper than at the vet. Vets make a lot of money by marking up their drugs.

Be aware that many vets charge crazy prices to write or call in your prescription. See if you can get more prescriptions written at once for a cheaper charge, and get the most refills you can; clarify this before your vet finalizes it. They will charge every time, if they can.

Some vets charge less for writing prescriptions, and if your pet is on many prescription drugs, it may be cheaper to bring your cat in once to a vet for an exam just to use them as your "prescription vet" if you have that option. Call around.

And, if you're getting prescription drugs from your vet, check on pricing...Some charge the same for a month's supply of meds for kitty as they do for only 2 week's worth (so you'd end up going in twice and paying double than if you'd gotten a month's worth all at once).

Yes, first hand experience of price-gouging. It happens. Check around. I need to save all I can to pay for my glucose strips lol.

Sorry for the rant, but hope it helps someone with love, nikki

Rant away. I have learned new things. I appreciate all your advice/insight. My daughter has spent a lot on our dear Roops. $3000 plus. It would be more if we continued taking him in for blood curves. And still the cat is no better. it's frustrating. She works minimum wage and is not full time. But she adores this cat. Like the rest of us she gets very upset and frustrated that he is not improving. The neuropathy has become so bad we are seriously considering him to put him to sleep. But we want to give him the best chance at living a good life. We still cling to the hope that he will and can get better. But patience was never my forte. He is still a relatively young cat.

 

[nslade001]

Rant away. I have learned new things. I appreciate all your advice/insight. My daughter has spent a lot on our dear Roops. $3000 plus. It would be more if we continued taking him in for blood curves. And still the cat is no better. it's frustrating. She works minimum wage and is not full time. But she adores this cat. Like the rest of us she gets very upset and frustrated that he is not improving. The neuropathy has become so bad we are seriously considering him to put him to sleep. But we want to give him the best chance at living a good life. We still cling to the hope that he will and can get better. But patience was never my forte. He is still a relatively young cat.

Hi, I'm not sure if you tried gabapentin? Its a prescription med for neuropathic pain, Willow seems to be more comfortable on it...She's 12 lbs and is on 25 mg twice daily. Maybe worth a try? With love, nikki

 

[Michele & Theo]

I think my daughter ordered them off Amazon. We need them. 2 left. Shipped by a 3rd party. haven't shipped them yet. Maybe we could get them from Costco. Never thought of that. Thanks for letting me know. His bs is high again today. Don't know what we are doing wrong. It's frustrating.

You may want to call Costco to see if they carry them (or can get them) since your meter is specific for animals. The meter I use is for humans (Accu Chek) so I can get the strips anywhere. You may also want to check if your vet participates in the WebStore purchasing; many vets do now. I have a monthly subscription for his dietetic food... I save on the purchase of the cases (i use 2 cases a month, saving over $10 from buying it over the counter at the clinic). They will ship it to you directly (for a small fee) or you can pick it up for free at the clinic.

I just checked the list from my Vet and they do have the AlphaTrak2 (pkg of 50) strips for $100.,07 if on auto order (reg price is $117.04). The animal glucometer test strips are more expensive than the human use meters (I pay around $80 for 100 test strips and I thought that was high!).

Good luck
Michele

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

which strips -- the Alpha Trak ones? or the Freestyle Insulinx? (human-meter strips which some have found will work with the Alpha Trak) -- I'm assuming those are the ones available at Costco, but I could be wrong

sounds like you need to find a USA member to walk the zobaline across the border for you too

(I'm incredibly curious, wondering if Costco in Canada carries Alpha Trak test strips .. wondering too what the price difference is on those between USA and Canada -- I know you can get insulin more cheaply and even without a prescription, am planning to dodge across to Vancouver if I can't find Lantus I could afford, this side)

 

[Roops]

You may want to call Costco to see if they carry them (or can get them) since your meter is specific for animals. The meter I use is for humans (Accu Chek) so I can get the strips anywhere. You may also want to check if your vet participates in the WebStore purchasing; many vets do now. I have a monthly subscription for his dietetic food... I save on the purchase of the cases (i use 2 cases a month, saving over $10 from buying it over the counter at the clinic). They will ship it to you directly (for a small fee) or you can pick it up for free at the clinic.

I just checked the list from my Vet and they do have the AlphaTrak2 (pkg of 50) strips for $100.,07 if on auto order (reg price is $117.04). The animal glucometer test strips are more expensive than the human use meters (I pay around $80 for 100 test strips and I thought that was high!).

Good luck
Michele

We checked Costco last night. Prozinc not available. We also checked for AlphaTrak1 strips. Again not available. Never heard of a vet participating in the Webstore. I will mention it to my daughter. She can perhaps ask, or I will write to them, and ask. We have been buying his food from GT. Trying to eliminate all kibble even that recommended by vet Tech. Trying to get his blood sugar down. Two Perfect Portions this morning. Always alert in the morning. Lots to say. Especially affectionate with my daughter. He misses her when she has gone to work or is out shopping with me. I do hope we can get him better. Strips won't be in until 1st of June to 17th of June.

 

[Roops]

which strips -- the Alpha Trak ones? or the Freestyle Insulinx? (human-meter strips which some have found will work with the Alpha Trak) -- I'm assuming those are the ones available at Costco, but I could be wrong

sounds like you need to find a USA member to walk the zobaline across the border for you too

(I'm incredibly curious, wondering if Costco in Canada carries Alpha Trak test strips .. wondering too what the price difference is on those between USA and Canada -- I know you can get insulin more cheaply and even without a prescription, am planning to dodge across to Vancouver if I can't find Lantus I could afford, this side)

We are seriously tempted to get our passports so we can go across the border. Not that far away for us. Roops is worth it.

 

[Roops]

Hi, I'm not sure if you tried gabapentin? Its a prescription med for neuropathic pain, Willow seems to be more comfortable on it...She's 12 lbs and is on 25 mg twice daily. Maybe worth a try? With love, nikki

never head of gabapentin before. Will be mentioning it to the vet. but expect they will want to see him first. We are trying to avoid trips to the vet. He hates going. The ride and being there. They said no to zobaline and will probably say the same with this med. But worth asking. Can't hurt to ask.

 

[nslade001]

This is the first veterinary medication prescribed by my Ontario vet when a cat presents with pain from diabetic neuropathy...It's not one they wouldn't have heard about (like zobaline lol), it's used for other pain relief, sedating before vet visits, etc in vet medicine. Mention your cat seems more uncomfortable due to the neuropathy, and you'd like to try gabapentin. If they've seen Roop recently there really shouldn't be an issue...If there is, I'd be seriously considering a vet change(if possible) With love, nikki

 

[CandyH & Catcat]

We are seriously tempted to get our passports so we can go across the border. Not that far away for us. Roops is worth it.

can you get Nexus? at least coming from USA to Canada and return, line is shorter; Nexus (works only between Canada and US) is half the cost of passport here, much shorter processing time (US passports take even more time these days), expires in half the time passport does

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/application-demande-eng.html

 

[Michele & Theo]

We checked Costco last night. Prozinc not available. We also checked for AlphaTrak1 strips. Again not available. Never heard of a vet participating in the Webstore. I will mention it to my daughter. She can perhaps ask, or I will write to them, and ask. We have been buying his food from GT. Trying to eliminate all kibble even that recommended by vet Tech. Trying to get his blood sugar down. Two Perfect Portions this morning. Always alert in the morning. Lots to say. Especially affectionate with my daughter. He misses her when she has gone to work or is out shopping with me. I do hope we can get him better. Strips won't be in until 1st of June to 17th of June.

Good morning.
Prozinc is an insulin especially for cats so not likely to be found anywhere other than your Vet or from online site selling pet medications. It is probably the same with supplies for the glucometer as the AlphaTrak is for animals (that is the reason my vet told me to go with a human based glucometer.. I use the same one he uses in the clinic). Your vet (or others nearby) may also stock the test strips in the clinic so if you are in need before your order arrives you may wish to call around and see.

Regarding food, commercially available food is not available from the online pet store, you're definitely better buying those in the local store or online. I mostly use one of the prescribed foods, hence order them from the vet online store. If your vet has website specific for the clinic, here is a screen shot of what to look for to see if they participate (the thumbnail is from the clinic I go to) and the listing from the vet web store for the test strips (they also have the lancets if you use them)




Michele

 

[Roops]

can you get Nexus? at least coming from USA to Canada and return, line is shorter; Nexus (works only between Canada and US) is half the cost of passport here, much shorter processing time (US passports take even more time these days), expires in half the time passport does

https://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/prog/nexus/application-demande-eng.html

Thankfully Zobaline arrived in the mail yesterday. My daughter ordered it from LifeLink? They included a handwritten or signed note with the package. I am hoping it helps him. Poor babe needs help. This morning he is not good. Loosey goosey. I woke shortly after 4, and cleaned him as best I could. Or as he would allow and cleaned the litter box. He has had a small portion of Whiskas perfect portion pate this morning with zobaline. I hope to give him some Fortiflora later.

 

[Roops]

This is the first veterinary medication prescribed by my Ontario vet when a cat presents with pain from diabetic neuropathy...It's not one they wouldn't have heard about (like zobaline lol), it's used for other pain relief, sedating before vet visits, etc in vet medicine. Mention your cat seems more uncomfortable due to the neuropathy, and you'd like to try gabapentin. If they've seen Roop recently there really shouldn't be an issue...If there is, I'd be seriously considering a vet change(if possible) With love, nikki

I am not sure if he has pain, or not. I am sure there is weakness. Perhaps numbness. We lift him onto chairs, the couch, or beds. And the kids carry him up the stairs. He can walk down himself. Hasn't climbed the stairs for a few weeks. And sure can't walk far without resting. thought his back end looked a bit teetery yesterday but could be because he didn't feel good. Loosey goosey today. Messy bottom. Hopefully we can get this figured out and help the poor cat. I am sure he is feeling pretty icky today. Giving him small portions of Purina DM kibble this morning which he accepts readily. And some Whiskas Perfect Portion. He hasn't lost weight but he hasn't gained 18 pounds. Most important to me - get the blood sugar under control, then worry about losing weight.