Buddy diagnosed

Kathy1966

Kathy1966

Member Since 2019
Hi, Our 5 year old cat Buddy was diagnosed yesterday as having Diabetes. Not knowing anything about feline diabetes I was happy the vet was going to tell us what to do.. Buddy's glucose reading was 480. The vet gave him 4 units of Prozinc which I now know was a high dose. He sent us home with insulin, syringes, weight management canned cat food and told us to feed him that until we order the prescription purina D/M cat food (which I now know is not the best and should be avoided). He told us to start giving him the 4 units of insulin every 12 hours.. suggested 6 or 7 morning and evening which would be the best times for us but since he didn't get his first one until 10am ..that with readings that high I should give him another at 6 or 7 pm last night that it would be ok.. that didn't happen. He hasn't had one since and I'll explain why.. My husband is diabetic. He has an Accu check meter. After reading how to check your cat's glucose I did it with his meter. At 4:13 pm with my husband's meter the reading was 114. At 6:57pm the reading was 80. At that time I was afraid to give him any insulin.. I especially wasn't going to give the 4 units the vet said. I'm actually very upset thinking that if I did not know the dangers (thank God I looked into it) my Buddy could have died!.. At 10:30 (or 10:50 I can't read my own writing) the reading was 81. Buddy sleeps by my head so I was able to know how he was during the night.. I'd wake up and pet him, talk to him and just let myself know that Bud was ok.. Before I go on I will talk about the food.. Bud use to eat meow mix freely.. I have 3 cats and of the 3 Bud got the fattest.. over 19 lbs. I began to notice he wasn't able to jump into the window any more. He was drinking more and eating all the time. I decided he needed to go on a diet. I started removing his food at night completely and only giving it a couple of times a day for an hour or so. He started losing weight and very easily. So fast that I was sort of concerned and over time stopped removing the food. By this time I noticed the litter wasn't going as far.. I was scooping much more often and it was harder to scoop. I realized the urine was like concrete. I had to figure out which cat was doing this and realized it was Bud..so the vet trip and the diagnosis.. He weighed 16.6 at the vets.. Now back to the food. He didn't like the weight management food.. I had took away the meow mix from him.. and when the reading at 6:57 pm was 80 I was concerned after the huge dose of insulin. I could picture it going too low so I got my husband to go to the nearby store and pick up some other canned cat food. He ate it a little better. But I was still concerned so I must admit I put the meow mix back down for a bit.. I don't think he ate much of it. The reading this morning was 57. He seems ok.. I certainly didn't give him any insulin.. I was thinking if the readings were up I'd give one unit or so but nope, couldn't do it.. I fed him some canned food and I'm watching him.. he's laying around and looks ok. Not sure what to do .. I'm thinking of going to walmart today to get a relion meter. Not sure what else to do at this point..Thank you for your time. So sorry this is a jumbled mess. I have a lot to do today but wanted to get this posted.
 
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Hi Kathy, and welcome! First of all, great job getting started with home testing right away, and for all of the reading you've done already!

You absolutely did the right thing to skip insulin last night. It sounds like that dose was waaaaay too high. Unfortunately that's not unusual. Vets mean well, but when it comes to feline diabetes, most of them simply don't know what they're doing.

Sometimes after an overdose like that, a cat will run low for a day, and then the numbers will start to rise. So keep monitoring. If Buddy gets back up over 200, then I think you could try 1u, but not below that for now. And if he gets over 200, wait until whatever time you want to use as the shot time, and then give the shot. You don't need to do it the second he gets that high. The vet was wrong to give the shot at 10am and then tell you to shoot again at 6pm. As I'm sure you've figured out by now, you want the shots to be 12 hours apart. They shouldn't just be given whenever the vet feels like it.

You're doing all the right things to get him on low-carb wet food, and test, and help him get his weight down...you're going great!

When you get a chance, if you could set up the spreadsheet we use here, it will really help: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

As for food, most folks here use fancy feast classics - the pate style, or Friskies pate. Those are both low-carb enough to be safe for our diabetic kitties, and also relatively inexpensive. If you can get all three of your cats on it, that would be best so that there is no chance of Buddy finding any stray higher carb food lying around. Cats can be incredibly sneaky sometimes!

As for the meter - it's fine to use your hubby's meter unless that will mess with his averages. Or if you want a dedicated meter for Buddy, then relions are fine, or I like this one: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/product...ose-test-strips-lancets-and-free-presto-meter I've found it to be close to the same readings as my vet and the strips are pretty inexpensive. The lancets that come with it are too small though, so I buy 30's to use instead. Some folks find that 27's work better for their cats since they are a little bigger. Since you've already been getting tests, you can probably just stick with whatever size you're using.

Let us know what questions you have! This forum is pretty small, and most of us work, so sometimes responses can be a little slow in coming, but we'll get back to you as soon as we can! :):bighug:
 
Welcome and WOW!! I am impressed. You totally did and are doing the right thing. We have all found that sometimes vets don’t quite advise correctly when treating feline diabetes. Keep testing ... I am no pro but I just wanted to say welcome and you are doing amazing!!!! You’ve definitely come to the right place for help and advice. I could not have gotten this far without this group. I am sure other more experienced members will chime in and help you set up a spreadsheet to track Buds BG levels and from there they can help you with dosing. Clearly 4 units is too much and certainly not a recommended starting point. Bud is very lucky to have such a smart and caring mama... figured out how to test on your own day one!! Thank god as the situation could have turned out badly.
 
Thank you so much for your replies. I sit here and cried. I think partly from relief and maybe just releasing some of this overwhelming worry. When I started to reply back my vet finally called back (I had called him yesterday evening with my concerns and he was busy and was suppose to call back and never did).. well, he called a few minutes ago. I talked to him about the human meter. He said he doesn't have experience with them but that Buddy was actually 498 yesterday not 480 and he doesn't think the 4 units brought him down as low as this meter is saying. He said he gave 4 units based on Buddy's readings and weight.. he recommended an animal meter and said he didn't know how to convert the human readings . On to the food, He still recommends the purina D/M and he didn't think the wet food in the can was good but said higher quality dry food was more what he needed.

I'll look into the spreadsheet when I have time. Thank you!
 
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Oh dear lord...no. Just no. Please ignore your vet. I know they hate it when we take charge of our pets’ care, but that is beyond ego. That’s just flat out dangerous.

Dry food is the absolute worst thing for our diabetics. And that prescription food is well above the 10% carb threshold recommended for diabetic cats. Grrrr....it makes me so mad when vets do things like this! They are supposed to be trusted professionals. They profit off of selling the dry food and other pet specific supplies. There is absolutely no need to spend $1/test for a pet specific test strip. And no need to spend a zillion dollars on food that is not at all prescription and is simply a marketing ploy.

And I know you already know better than to give 4u, so don’t even worry about that part. I wonder what your vet would have to say when you bring him an unconscious cat? Who knows what Buddy’s dose range will end up being, but we do know from your current numbers that it isn’t 4u! Weight has very little to do with insulin dose. We have skinny cats on high doses and larger cats on low doses. It’s about pancreas function, not size.

And the difference between 498 and 480 is nothing at all. I think he was just grasping at straws to try to gain power in the conversation.

Try to keep a good relationship because you’ll need him to write the prescriptions for you, but you can do that by smiling and nodding and then just keep moving forward with what you know is best.

Hugs to you! This is hard and confusing and frustrating at the beginning, but you’ll get it all sorted in no time, and we are here to help!
 
Ok. We have all been there. Deep breaths. I used a pet meter for a while and switched to a human meter ... they do tend to run a bit lower but nothing that would effect a change in dose. So you are fine with a human meter. ... these guys finally got me to switch!! As for the vet saying he was 498 not 480 doesn’t mean anything. It’s effectively the same reading. Meters tend to vary by as much as 20% even the same meter with a reading on the same drop of blood. As for the vet prescribed food, I didn’t have much luck with it and it is expensive. The trick is low carbs. A lot of the Fancy Feast pates have lower carbs than even the vet food! I see @Djamila replied to you so you got lucky!! I’m sure she can share the food chart we use that shows how different foods compare from a protein/carb/ fat and phosphorus standpoint and you can try a few to see what Bud likes. Most important thing here is there is no overnight fix and it will take trying foods-doses and seeing what works. You are in the best hands here with this group. We have all cried and been frustrated but I promise you it gets easier. You are already way ahead with testing and knowledge. One of the most important things told to me by this group is that this is not a sprint. Hugs coming your way.
 
Thank you both so much! Even though this is scary territory for me I'm now feeling much better. So thankful I found this site!
 
Good Morning.. Buddy's Glucose was 137 this morning so If I have this right that's a little above normal on a human meter correct? But, since I'm a newbie I should wait until it's above 200 to give any insulin, correct?
 
Yes to both of those. There are times when cats get insulin on a number like that, but not this early in the journey. My hunch is that if you get Buddy on all low carb wet food and low carb treats, he may not need insulin. Do keep checking for a few more days, and make sure he's only eating food/treats under 10% carbs, and we may see those numbers get down in the 50-120 range all on their own (fingers crossed!).

If you're not sure on the food, you can check the food list in my signature (or here: https://catinfo.org/chart/index.php) for a sortable list. And for treats, you want things that are just plain freeze dried meat with nothing else in them. I can share some suggestions if Buddy likes treats and you need some ideas.

And @Lisa and little, you are plenty qualified to be chiming in! I love seeing you helping out and you always give great advice! :bighug:
 
Thank you so much. You don't know how thankful I am to have found this forum and for you help. The food list is very helpful. Treat suggestions would be great! Thanks again!!
 
Here you go:

Bonito flakes – these are sold in some grocery stores as a human food. They are tissue-paper thin bits of fish and are easy to sprinkle on food to get a kitty to eat. They last forever and are the cheapest option.

https://www.amazon.com/Kaneso-Tokuy...&qid=1516455184&sr=8-3&keywords=bonito flakes

The next two are expensive, but they are good quality and they are more what you would consider a typical treat – something your kitty can actually bite into:

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Fr...atcorr&keywords=freeze dried salmon cat treat

https://www.amazon.com/CATMANDOO-Dr...r=1-6&keywords=freeze dried chicken cat treat

These are probably my personal favorites as they look like what they are. Sometime a little too much so though in the case of the chicken hearts. It is an actual dried heart. I usually have to cut them into a couple of pieces since they are a little bit big and hard for the cats to bite into on their own. They also have little minnows that are the whole fish. And a variety of other options. Often the dog treats are a bit cheaper, and since it’s a whole, dried protein, it doesn’t make any difference if you buy the cat or the dog versions.

https://www.amazon.com/Essentials-F...05&sr=1-4&keywords=vital essential cat treats

And these are good too, and a little less expensive than the catmandoo brand:

https://www.chewy.com/purebites-chicken-breast-freeze-dried/dp/53161

Most of the links are Amazon, but you can buy them all on Chewy as well if you prefer. If you get Bonito flakes marketed for cats they are much more expensive than the Bonito flakes for humans, so that one I would recommend getting at a grocery store or Amazon instead of from Chewy.
 
It's looking more like I will definitely be giving him insulin. At 10:31 am it was 178 and just a little bit ago at 3:26 it was 225. He hasn't eaten in about 4 hours maybe 4 and a half hours or so. Not sure when I will do it.. was going to try a schedule of 6 or 7 am and 6 or 7 pm. Do you think I should start out with 1u?.. since this comment I went ahead and created a new thread on the board with this question... in hopes someone see's it before about 6 or 6:30 pm central time.
 
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Since no one else answered you I’d error on the side of caution. Assuming he’s up around 200 1u would be a start. Make sure you test him at +2 hrs after shot to see where he is ..
 
Given the margin for error, that is pretty close to 200, can you stall the feeding and check again in 20-30 minutes?


Edited to add, I see from your other thread he is eating now, so never mind this for this evening.
 
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Peacock said:
Given the margin for error, that is pretty close to 200, can you stall the feeding and check again in 20-30 minutes?


Edited to add, I see from your other thread he is eating now, so never mind this for this evening.
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Yes, I'm still trying to get the hang of things and since the numbers had dropped from earlier and it's been hours since he ate I thought I'd go ahead and let him eat. I'll start doing the stall thing from now on though. Thank you for reminding me of that. I've read so much but I know I need to read it again and remember this stuff.
 
Lisa and little said:
Did you test agin?
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Not since 6:19 pm, because he had went several hours without food and I thought I'd go ahead and let him eat. I'm a little concerned he's not eating enough though. We are still trying out different pate foods to see what he likes. He doesn't eat a lot at one time and a couple of minutes ago I noticed liquid throw up. not a huge amount... not sure which cat did it since all three of them ate some of the friskies pate tonight.
 
@Lisa and little, well done! See, I knew you could do it! :bighug:

Kathy, sorry I wasn't around. Late night at work tonight. Lisa gave you good advice to start at 1u if over 200, and then test. And it's fine that you skipped tonight. If he's going to hang out over 200, he'll be up there again soon enough. Also, if he's high enough to shoot tomorrow, but you're nervous given what you've been through already, you could start out at 0.5u and see how he does for a couple of cycles on that. Then you can work your way up or down from there as needed. Whatever you're comfortable with there is fine - part of all of this is making sure that the caregiver is doing well too. :)

Good job getting your spreadsheet up! Go ahead and enter whatever numbers you have. If you need any help figuring out all the columns, just ask. It can be a little confusing at first. For the cycles the last couple of days when you didn't give insulin, just put "NS" in the U column. It stands for No Shot and just lets us know that you didn't forget to enter the dose.

Oh, and as for food, cats will often eat much less wet food than they did of dry food. I can't remember how much you said Buddy weighs, but for a typical 10-12lb cat, eating one small can of FF in the AM cycle and one in the PM cycle is fairly typical. Some eat more or less depending on age, health, and activity level, of course. If they're eating less than that, and are that big or bigger, let us know and we have a few tricks to help them adjust and start enjoying the wet food.
 
Buddy weighs a little over 16 lbs now (down from over 19) I'm trying friskies at the moment with him but will be buying FF soon to see how he likes that. Hubby picked up one FF on the first night but I can't remember if he ate much of that or if the other 2 cats got it. If he'd only love the wet food like they seem to I wouldn't have to worry so much about his food intake. I bake chicken for my little chihuahua and offered some to Bud today and he ate it. The bag said 0 carbs but not sure what additives they put in there. I hope that doesn't cause any problems. I was going to order treats tonight but have been so busy it will have to wait till tormorrow. I'm about to head to bed and Buddy will probably soon follow and walk on my pillow.. pulling my hair and then lay by my head.. putting his head near mine and purr in my ear. :) So sweet. Thank you for replying to my thread and for all the help so far. Have a good night.
 
148 this am. Higher than yesterday's am reading. I did not give insulin. I will see how his readings are in the pm and go from there...
 
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my syringes do not have 0.5u mark. I'm seeing a lot of people shoot at this point. I do want those numbers in the normal range but I sure don't want a low either. Still learning this and what to do.
 
Hi Kathy, for now you did the safest thing for Buddy by holding off. In our case, Peacock's no-shoot number is 130 right now, but that comes after a few months of very close monitoring, conservative adjustments, and seeing how she responds to insulin. The only time she has gotten scary-low is when she got higher than normal doses at the vet. Also, her current dose is only .25u, and I even reduce that sometimes. Speaking of partial units, if you are interested in getting half-unit syringes in the future, this is a good source for mail-order: https://www.adwdiabetes.com/search.aspx?keywords=u-40 half#/?keywords=u-40 half&search_return=all If you want to do a half unit dose in the meantime, you can eye-ball it.

How is Buddy doing with his food?
 
He's doing better with his food. I'm learning a little of which friskies wet foods he is liking better than others, I'll get him some FF to try soon. I've noticed he doesn't like it cold from the fridge but if I add a small amount of warm water and mix it up he eats it better. He doesn't even eat half a can at a sitting though so I offer it a time or two between meals, making sure though he hasn't ate a few hours before testing.. We are new to wet foods so I'm sure will will learn what will work better for him before too long.
I guess, at least for now, I'll be eyeballing the partial units when the time comes for insulin. Thank you so much for the link. I'll get some later on.
 
I was happy to see 88 this morning :) I was praying for the lower numbers today when I saw the lowering trend yesterday. I will work from now on keeping higher carb foods away from Buddy. No more high carb dry food for him. I ordered a couple of different suggested treats for him (and the 2 girls we have) from amazon.
I'm seeing a huge difference when I scoop the cat litter. No more cement like clumps. Easy to scoop and saving lots of litter that I had to throw out before. I'm seeing more energy from my boy.
 
If you're ever feeling kind and diplomatic, it would be good to have a conversation with your vet about what you've learned regarding home monitoring and starting doses with cats. If your vet keeps doing what he's doing, he's going to kill someone's fur baby. Some vets will shrug it off, some might get their ego's bruised, but some will take the lesson to heart and read up a little on appropriate treatment for feline diabetes and start doing better. Buddy is very lucky to have a caregiver that took the time to learn and was brave enough to go against that very-misguided voice of authority.

You'll want to keep monitoring him for a few days to make sure the numbers stay down. And then once every week or so for the rest of his life since he's shown that he's prone to diabetes and he's still quite young.
 
I will have that conversation with my vet. I can't say enough how thankful I am for this forum and the life saving advice I've been given. Buddy and my other two, Misha (female) and Jipsee (female) will be so much more healthier for it.. I will keep monitoring Buddy and I will make sure to do the things to keep his numbers as normal as I can. This is a huge lesson for me.
 
Happy to report a 55 this morning. Buddy (or Bud Man we often call him) was up and ready to go way before I was. He would occasionally let me know he was awake and hungry until I got up. He aggravated my dog playfully, which in the past would get him fussed at, but this morning I smiled. He ate FF while the girls were offered the left over friskies.. of course they wanted his fancy Feast, so every one got a little bit of this and that out of each other's bowls.
 
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Oh, it makes me so happy to see kitties healing and settling down into normal ranges and healthy behaviors! What could be more healthy than bothering the dog? ;):cat: I also love knowing that you have all of your kitties on low-carb diets now because it means they all have a much better chance at long healthy lives :). You've done a great job of navigating all of this! :bighug:
 
Pm reading was 56.. so happy about that but I have a question. Since starting wet foods the water bowl stays full and not much if any drinking is going on from it. I did start adding water to the wet foods, I didn't know at first I was supposed to do that. Do you think Buddy and the girls are getting in enough water? I saw him in the litter box peeing a little while ago.
I'm trying to get Bud to exercise a little. Today he was able to jump up to the window with a little help from the cat litter bucket under it. I got him to do it several times all the while telling him what a good boy he is. I had to coax him though, so hopefully he will do it all by himself without me patting the bucket then up to the window seat.
 
Wet cat food is something like 75% water, compared to dry food being under 10% water. I also add a couple of tablespoons to the wet food, so it is more like the thickness of chili or stew. That amount of water, combined with the moisture in the canned food, is about the recommended daily amount, even without the water bowl.

My vet suggested I measure the water bowl usage, in order catch changes, so I have been tracking it since we got her from the shelter. On average the water bowl drops about 1 tablespoon in 24 hours now that she has only canned food with water added, which is half the amount from when she was having half wet half dry, which is what I gave her at first because that is what the shelter fed her. I have recently joked with my kid that i think I am actually carefully recording the rate of evaporation in my apartment, since I never see the cat at the bowl anymore.

So, I think Buddy and the girls are probably fine.
 
Thank you! That makes me feel better. Before Buddy was diagnosed he drank a lot of water. I was filling the bowl up every day and we saw him at the bowl quite often. I was thinking the lower numbers and wet food was causing the change. Must be happening with the girls too.
 
Peacock said:
I have recently joked with my kid that i think I am actually carefully recording the rate of evaporation in my apartment, since I never see the cat at the bowl anymore.
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Lol! I've thought that too!

Kathy - since it looks like Buddy is settling into lower numbers, I just wanted to make sure you know that as long as he's not getting insulin injected, if he ends up even in the 40's, he's okay. Some cats naturally run quite low. We set the "take action" number at 50 for injected insulin for safety.
 
Djamila that is good to know. I was just wondering earlier if it's ok for him to go any lower than 50.
 
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Numbers are still good. 51 this morning. I got up the nerve to check the other two cats. I'm happy to say one was 56 and the other 57. Crazy that I haven't done so already but with Bud's diagnosis I was terrified and didn't know if I could handle any other bad news so soon if the results were not good. They've been eating the wet food as well so I probably should check their glucose every now and then too.
 
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Lol...I test my civvie from time to time as well. And myself. And my friends. Anyone who walks in this house gets a free diabetes screening ;). The sad news is that two of my friends in the past few years have turned out to be undiagnosed diabetics. :confused: Ah, middle age!
 
I have another question..49 this morning. Still only eating low carb wet food (ff and friskies pate) and the only thing I'll add is the treats when they get here this week. They are also low carb and suggested by you @Djamila. Do you think it's safe to start checking his BG only once a week now?
 
Kathy1966 said:
I have another question..49 this morning. Still only eating low carb wet food (ff and friskies pate) and the only thing I'll add is the treats when they get here this week. They are also low carb and suggested by you @Djamila. Do you think it's safe to start checking his BG only once a week now?
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We aren't at this point yet, but from what I have seen, I think a cat is considered in remission after 2 weeks in the normal range without insulin. So maybe to be on the conservative side, you might want to track it for another week before cutting back on the testing? On the other hand, Buddy was never at the stage where the insulin was controlling his diabetes, so that could be overkill. I would at least test long enough to see how he reacts to the treats and any other food options you might be planning.

I am so pleased to see Buddy's quick turnaround!
 
@Peacock Thank you for the reply..I got up later this morning and buddy was losing his mind wanting his breakfast.. he's pretty demanding each morning. This site was down when I checked and I couldn't see any replies to my question so I just skipped the BG test. I only have one more test strip, so I will need to pick up more later today when I go out. I may do every other day for a week or so then once a week for a bit. It depends on what the readings show.
I'm seeing a huge difference in all of them. They all have more energy and don't just sleep all day. They are feeling much softer and look much more shiny.
 
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