Worried, please help

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jason bellamy

jason bellamy

Member Since 2018
Francis was diagnosed with diabetes 12/11/18 after we took him to the vet because he would not eat or drink.he was in dka he was severely dehydrated and they were worried about his kidneys and put him on royal canin rx until he was better.he came out fine after a almost a week in the vet. we have been giving him prozinc 0.6 units a day and his bg was in the 200-300 range eatjng the young again mature zero. within the last month his numbers have gone to between 400-500. tried to increase to .8 units to bring it down with no result. after a week and a half or so increased to 1 unit. he remains around 400 but now has very little interest in food or water. he is still eating and drinking but very minimal. he has used the litter box 1 time with just a small amount of feces but no urine in the last 3 days. when pinching the tent on his neck he takes a few seconds to go down indicating dehydration. when he was hospitalized the vet offered to sell us lactated ringers to peform at home subq fluids but we were already heavily in debt to them so we declined until it was needed. i tried to get subq fluids today and the vet denied it and wants to see him again. our financial situation is worse now than it was then, what can i do to rehydrate him since they will not approve the rx for subq fluids?
 
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Also have tried to give him wet food, flavor his water with tuna juice and chicken broth. give him ice cubes to play with and having no luck
 
Sorry to hear your kitty is not well. Unfortunately I can't give you any advice as I'm very new to the workings of diabetes. You may want to put a ? In front of your thread title as this may draw more eyes. You may also want to post to the prozinc sub forum.
 
Or put a "911" at the beginning of your post, even better as your kitty worries me. Can you get the lactated ringers and set-up from a lab or pharmacy supply store? I don't think researchers need prescriptions etc. Or, since you say the vet lied to you, have you considered another vet? If you live in a city with a veterinary college, they often have excellent vet emergency facilities. Best of luck!
 
i wouldn't say the vet lied, but its been 5 months since she said she would sell it to us. im currently attempting to feed him 50/50 pedialyte water solution with a syringe
 
Hi Jason,
My concern is that there may have ketones in the urine. Do you have any Ketostix at home to test the urine with? If not you can buy them from Walmart or a pharmacyfor about $10.
If Francis has a history of DKA, it is really important that you monitor the urine for ketones,especially if he is not eating or drinking well. I think a priority is to get the Ketostix and test the urine for ketones. Anything above a trace needs vet attention.
Is he eating enough? It is also important that he is eating enough. If he won't eat the normal food you give him, try him with something else. He must eat, drink and get his normal dose of insulin to prevent ketones forming. If you have having any issues around Not being able to give the insulin because Francis won't eat,please post and let us know.

I'm not sure that pedialyte is a good idea ( but I could be wrong.) it has sodium, potassium and sucralose in it. I would give plain water orally.
I am not a user of Prozinc so I will tag @Rachel @Kris & Teasel @Djamila and hopefully one of those ladies is online sometime soon to help you.
Please keep asking questions.
 
Have you tried cooking some chicken slowly in water for an hour or two and using the water to give to Francis?
Have you checked to see if he is dehydrated?
Are his gums slippery and wet or tacky?
When you pull up his scruff of his neck does it fall back quickly or slowly?
Is he lethargic.?
I am not sure what the situation is in the US about doing SubQ fluids without vet permission as I don't live in the US. Others may be able to help.

Also are you feeding mainly dry food or wet food.? Wet food is 78% moisture and dry is 7% moisture, so if you can get him to eat wet food he will immmediately be getting moe moisture in his diet.
 
ok so yes he is dehydrated. he will drink and eat but only like a bite or 2 of food a day right now. water is far and few between as i said he has not urnited in a couple days now. he is eating young again zero mature dry food. i do have ketostix but can not get him to urinate in order to test.
 
I think you will need to take him to the vet to have him rehydrated and to get some subQ fluids. The danger is he could have ketones and that can lead very quickly to DKA. If you can catch it early it will be a lot cheaper than if it develops further.
If he has not done a pee for 2 days that is very concerning.
My advise is to take Francis to the vet today..
 
thats what im worried about. tried to get subq fluids today and the vet denied the rx. i still owe them a substantial amount for his hospitalization so was trying everything i could before going back to the vet and increasing what i owe them
 
jason bellamy said:
thats what im worried about. tried to get subq fluids today and the vet denied the rx. i still owe them a substantial amount for his hospitalization so was trying everything i could before going back to the vet and increasing what i owe them
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I do understand how you are situated with finances and it can be hard. Can you ring and talk to the vet and tell him how things are financially and can you bring Francis in to be rehydrated and to get the subQ fluids?
I think 2 days with no pee is pretty urgent and needs vet attention.. in the long run it will be cheaper to do something now than later when he is worse.
 
he's going to the vet in the morning for subq fluids. ive given him some fluids, not to his liking, via oral syringe for now
 
Good morning! I'm so sorry to hear that your kitty is so unwell. I agree that a vet visit is best. Have you been giving insulin still? Do you test at home?
 
he has still been getting his insulin but maintaining between 400-500 which is high considering he was 200-300 with a naid of 150ish on such a low dose. he did manage to urinate this am which tested for trace-small amount of ketones. we are awaiting the vet now
 
Update: Francis has been hospitalized. His abdomen was full of fluid which the vet said indicates liver failure and that any amount of fluid given to him will more than likely just leak back to the abdomen it the liver is not producing protiens in the blood stream. he has a 50/50 chance of coming out of it but without hospitalization she said he only had a week or 2 left with us. So he is going to stay with them the next 24 hours for testing and to see if there is any improvement before we make further decisions.
 
Jason I am so sorry to hear this. I am glad you took him to the vet. I do hope things improve for him. Please keep us updated. Sending prayers for his recovery. :bighug::bighug:
 
Update: As soon as vet drained the fluid he used the litter box. Blood work came back. She said it was near perfect and located what she believes to be lymphoma. Said it should be able to be treated with steroids once he is stabilized. he is also showing signs of anemia and his potassium level is abnormally high.
ALB 2.5; ALP 18; ALT 33; AMY 1017; TBIL 0.3; BUN 28; CA 9.1; PHOS 3.9; CRE 1.0; GLU 316; NA+ 143; K+ 6.4; TP 6.9; GLOB 4.4

RBC 5.59; HCT 19%; HGB 6.0 g/dL; MCV 34.0 fL; MCG 10.7 pg; MCGC 31.5g/dL; RDW 25.8%; %RETIC 2.0%; RETIC 110.6K/ul; WBC 18.58 K/uL; %NEU 83.1%; %LYM 1.9%; %MONO 12%; %EOS 2.4%; %BASO 0.7%; NEU 15.45 K/uL; LYM 0.36 K/ul; MONO 2.22 K/uL; EOS 0.44K/uL; BASO 0.12K/uL; PLT >273 K/uL; MPV 6.8fL; PDW 23.5%; PCT 0.19%
 
I do not know who here deals with FD and treating with steroids, but I know that steroids can exacerbate the FD sometimes.

I am glad to hear he has urinated. Good his system is running.

I wish I had more to offer but Francis and you both are still in my thoughts tonight. ER vet trips are rough no matter what happens. :bighug:
 
yeah the steroids effecting his glucose is what shes worried about. honestly i dont think it will be a huge ordeal. before all this happened he was taking 0.4-0.5 units pzi 2x a day, so i think there is alot of room to adjust his dosage if needed to account for the steroids.
 
jason bellamy said:
yeah the steroids effecting his glucose is what shes worried about. honestly i dont think it will be a huge ordeal. before all this happened he was taking 0.4-0.5 units pzi 2x a day, so i think there is alot of room to adjust his dosage if needed to account for the steroids.
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Glad to hear it! :)
 
JanetNJ said:
Wow the anemia is quite significant. I'm glad there is a plan in place.
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yeah it is on the graph that goes along with the numbers its basically bottomed out. Im hoping its related to the lymphoma and will raise due to that. or fleas. if anyone is familiar to the florida area this time of year they go crazy we had to put a sorresto collar on him and are about to spray the yard for them because its not just him they are everywhere outside.
 
is he perhaps reacting also to the Seresto collar? some cats appear to react badly to that -- have you tried dusting him with food grade diatomaceous earth? that seems to be the least invasive flea killer
 
CandyH said:
is he perhaps reacting also to the Seresto collar? some cats appear to react badly to that -- have you tried dusting him with food grade diatomaceous earth? that seems to be the least invasive flea killer
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The collar was added after his health started going down. We found a few fleas and figured that could be possibly why he was acting off. The vet said nothing has changed today hes back to not eating or drinking. basically the options were try the steroids or put him to sleep so we are going with steroids, i figure there is nothing to loose.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Jason there are several people here who deal with lymphoma and FD. I am going to tag @Wendy&Neko as she has experience with this.
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Did the vet mention large cell lymphoma or a mass? That’s a completely different beast and different way to diagnose that small cell lymphoma which I am familiar with. Large cell needs a fine needle aspirate or perhaps a mass could be felt or seen on X-ray. Small cell is just in the gut and needs a biopsy or endoscopy to diagnose. Both however, use steroids as part of their treatment, along with chemo. By the way, cats tolerate chemo fairly well, as long as you have anti nausea meds. The steroids may impact blood sugar, depending on the kind. I suspect you will be giving prednisolone, which will impact the BG. It if it's something that’s needed and critical to his life, we just work the insulin dose around it. Neko was on the steroid budesonide, which did not impact her blood sugar.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Did the vet mention large cell lymphoma or a mass? That’s a completely different beast and different way to diagnose that small cell lymphoma which I am familiar with. Large cell needs a fine needle aspirate or perhaps a mass could be felt or seen on X-ray. Small cell is just in the gut and needs a biopsy or endoscopy to diagnose. Both however, use steroids as part of their treatment, along with chemo. By the way, cats tolerate chemo fairly well, as long as you have anti nausea meds. The steroids may impact blood sugar, depending on the kind. I suspect you will be giving prednisolone, which will impact the BG. It if it's something that’s needed and critical to his life, we just work the insulin dose around it. Neko was on the steroid budesonide, which did not impact her blood sugar.
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Thanks for the info, The lymphoma was seen as a mass on ultrasound. I'll probably know more here shortly as I just got off work.
 
This is where we currently stand
 

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I guess the last update was he has not responded to the steroids. They gave him 5 units of insulin and he went hypo. They got his numbers back up though, I'm wanting to know why they decided 5 units was a good number since he usually takes 0.5 units without the steroids
 
jason bellamy said:
I guess the last update was he has not responded to the steroids. They gave him 5 units of insulin and he went hypo. They got his numbers back up though, I'm wanting to know why they decided 5 units was a good number since he usually takes 0.5 units without the steroids
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Wow, why would they give 5 units of insulin. That is crazy. I'm glad he is ok.
How are things today with Francis?
 
I'm usually at work during the vets normal hours so all my info comes 2nd hand from his mother, but Francis came home today. They gave him a long acting steroid shot and gave us 2 shots to use when fluids build up in his abdomen again. They said that the mass is pretty much sucking all the nutrients out of his system. he is currently eating and drinking on his own but pretty much said that they were just keeping him comfortable for the few weeks he has. Unfortunately we can't continue the treatment he truly needs, especially knowing that it may make no influence anyways. Since Francis was diagnosed with diabetes and dka in december and this case now we are several thousand dollars into his treatment and the next step would be to go to an oncologist which was estimated at being another $5,000 with no guarantee of results. Our vet though was really generous and did not charge for several things and reduced the cost of others, so we are really thankful for that. We have done everything in our ability for him and it saddens us that this is going to be the result, but at almost 15 years old we knew the day would come eventually, unfortunately it's still not easy.
 
Jason, so sorry to hear this. Hope you get to spend some quality time with your special little guy. You did and are doing everything you can for him and I'm sure he knows how much you love him. I'm sure he's happy to be back in his home with his dad. Big hugs.
 
Jason I am so sorry the news is not better. Your vet sounds very compassionate. Keeping you and Francis in my thoughts. Enjoy your time with him. I’m sure he is happy to be back home with you. :bighug:
 
Just an update for everyone. Francis crossed the rainbow bridge yesterday morning. Things continued to go down hill. Luckily for us somehow the old vet sold his mother a 150ml dropper bottle of buprenex after his brothers surgery so we were able to keep his pain down until we got to the vet.
 
Oh Jason, I am so sorry to hear that Francis has crossed the rainbow bridge. It is never easy, even when we are expecting it. What a lucky boy he was to have had you as a bean. Sending you many hugs as you mourn your beautiful boy.
Fly free Francis and land softly at the rainbow bridge.:rb_icon: There will be many friends from from the forum there to greet you.cat_wings>o

Jason, can you change the subject line to reflect what has happened, so all your friends can see please?
 
I'm so sorry to read this and the sadness you must be feeling. It is always so hard when we lose our furbabies but I'm sure Francis knew how much he was loved. :bighug:
 
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