? 5/10 Phoebe Squeak AMPS 334 +6 302 -- TR advice please

J.J. and Phoebe Squeak

J.J. and Phoebe Squeak

Member Since 2019
Hi,
I'm a newbie. I'm trying to follow the TR protocol. Weds overnight, Phoebe Squeak dropped to 64 on AT meter and 36 on human meter so I lowered her dose from 1.25U to 1U. Since then she's had all pink numbers, but TR says you must reduce dose if they go below 40 even once on human meter which she did. I assume it just takes time for her body to adjust to the new dose, but I'd love to hear from someone who's done TR protocol. Thank you in advance.
 
Hello! I don't follow TR - but I just thought I'd comment to give you a bump to the top of the feed :)
 
Phoebe is bouncing, so yes, hold until the bounce is resolved and then see where the numbers fall. It can take up to six cycles for a bounce to clear. By the way, for newly diagnosed cats, we use 50 as the reduction point.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Phoebe is bouncing, so yes, hold until the bounce is resolved and then see where the numbers fall. It can take up to six cycles for a bounce to clear. By the way, for newly diagnosed cats, we use 50 as the reduction point.
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Thank you so much. I really appreciate the help. Do bounces happen if the dose is increased or decreased or just when it's decreased?
 
J.J. and Phoebe Squeak said:
Thank you so much. I really appreciate the help. Do bounces happen if the dose is increased or decreased or just when it's decreased?
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It happens when Phoebe’s Blood Glucose levels drop lower than her body is used to. Her body will end up releasing more glucose from her liver to keep her blood glucose at a level that she has become used to. It’s normal. :)

Mowgli seems to bounce regularly... so annoying :rolleyes: It’s all good though because a bounce just shows that our kitties bodies are working properly. As Phoebe becomes regulated bounces could become less common, although someone has advised me that some cats “bounce all the way to remission” so keep faith!
 
AmandaE said:
It happens when Phoebe’s Blood Glucose levels drop lower than her body is used to. Her body will end up releasing more glucose from her liver to keep her blood glucose at a level that she has become used to. It’s normal. :)

Mowgli seems to bounce regularly... so annoying :rolleyes: It’s all good though because a bounce just shows that our kitties bodies are working properly. As Phoebe becomes regulated bounces could become less common, although someone has advised me that some cats “bounce all the way to remission” so keep faith!
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Thanks again! I really hope Phoebe Squeak & Mowgli get to remission -- bouncing or not. I'll have to upgrade my iPhone. :-)
 
I agree that Phoebe is bouncing. I'm going to add a bit more information to what Amanda provided. Bounces occur for a few reasons:
  • A cat drops into low numbers (dose reduction territory) an that's a range your cat hasn't been used to spending time in for a while;
  • A kitty drops into lower numbers -- not necessarily dose reduction worthy numbers -- but numbers have been so high for a while that you're kitty's body over reacts as though these were very low numbers;
  • Or there's a fast drop.
A bounce is a result of both the liver and pancreas going into "emergency" mode. A stored form of glucose along with counter regulatory hormones are released and this causes the numbers to spike upward. Bounces are seriously annoying to us but they are not dangerous and, in fact, is one way that your cat's system protects itself from low numbers. The more time your kitty spends in normal range numbers, the less she will bounce (hopefully).

On 5/4, you noted on your spreadsheet that you stalled the AM dose because you weren't comfortable shooting a 71, That makes sense. However, if you are stalling, you don't want to feed your cat. You want to test every 20 min or so to see if numbers are on the rise. Once they are rising, it's safe to shoot. (Also, post and we can lend a hand.) If you feed Phoebe, you won't know if the numbers are actually rising or if you're seeing an artificial rise due to a food spike.

I'm glad to see you're getting PM tests, too!
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I agree that Phoebe is bouncing. I'm going to add a bit more information to what Amanda provided. Bounces occur for a few reasons:
  • A cat drops into low numbers (dose reduction territory) an that's a range your cat hasn't been used to spending time in for a while;
  • A kitty drops into lower numbers -- not necessarily dose reduction worthy numbers -- but numbers have been so high for a while that you're kitty's body over reacts as though these were very low numbers;
  • Or there's a fast drop.
A bounce is a result of both the liver and pancreas going into "emergency" mode. A stored form of glucose along with counter regulatory hormones are released and this causes the numbers to spike upward. Bounces are seriously annoying to us but they are not dangerous and, in fact, is one way that your cat's system protects itself from low numbers. The more time your kitty spends in normal range numbers, the less she will bounce (hopefully).

On 5/4, you noted on your spreadsheet that you stalled the AM dose because you weren't comfortable shooting a 71, That makes sense. However, if you are stalling, you don't want to feed your cat. You want to test every 20 min or so to see if numbers are on the rise. Once they are rising, it's safe to shoot. (Also, post and we can lend a hand.) If you feed Phoebe, you won't know if the numbers are actually rising or if you're seeing an artificial rise due to a food spike.

I'm glad to see you're getting PM tests, too!
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Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
I agree that Phoebe is bouncing. I'm going to add a bit more information to what Amanda provided. Bounces occur for a few reasons:
  • A cat drops into low numbers (dose reduction territory) an that's a range your cat hasn't been used to spending time in for a while;
  • A kitty drops into lower numbers -- not necessarily dose reduction worthy numbers -- but numbers have been so high for a while that you're kitty's body over reacts as though these were very low numbers;
  • Or there's a fast drop.
A bounce is a result of both the liver and pancreas going into "emergency" mode. A stored form of glucose along with counter regulatory hormones are released and this causes the numbers to spike upward. Bounces are seriously annoying to us but they are not dangerous and, in fact, is one way that your cat's system protects itself from low numbers. The more time your kitty spends in normal range numbers, the less she will bounce (hopefully).

On 5/4, you noted on your spreadsheet that you stalled the AM dose because you weren't comfortable shooting a 71, That makes sense. However, if you are stalling, you don't want to feed your cat. You want to test every 20 min or so to see if numbers are on the rise. Once they are rising, it's safe to shoot. (Also, post and we can lend a hand.) If you feed Phoebe, you won't know if the numbers are actually rising or if you're seeing an artificial rise due to a food spike.

I'm glad to see you're getting PM tests, too!
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Thank you so much for this extra info. I want to learn all that I can. I learned how important PM testing is from someone on this site and I'm very grateful. That makes sense what you said about not feeding her after a low number. I thought I was supposed to feed her to make her number go up so she could get her shot, but what you said makes more sense -- to see what the numbers are actually doing. I'm glad you agree that I should not have given the shot when she was at 71, but I'm not sure what to use as a "don't shoot" number. Any advice?
 
...I'm not sure what to use as a "don't shoot" number. Any advice?
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What you ultimately use as a "don't shoot" number can depend on which approach to dosing you use -- either Tight Regulation (TR) or Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). At the beginning of this journey, you need to gather enough data to help you have a reasonable understanding of when your cat's onset and nadir occur (i.e., becoming "data ready"). If your cat's nadir is at +3 will have you think about shooting differently than if your cat's nadir is at +8. (Most cats' nadir is closer to the middle of the cycle but nadirs can and do move around.) Once you have a feel for how Phoebe's cycle works, I encourage people to start thinking about where they are comfortable shooting and then start to lower that number. I used TR with Gabby. For those of us who followed TR, we shoot anything over 50. Generally, with SLGS, that number is a 90 but many of the people who use SLGS will shoot lower.

This sticky may help you think about shooting low. It's geared toward TR but it's useful reading regardless of which dosing method you're using.
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
What you ultimately use as a "don't shoot" number can depend on which approach to dosing you use -- either Tight Regulation (TR) or Start Low Go Slow (SLGS). At the beginning of this journey, you need to gather enough data to help you have a reasonable understanding of when your cat's onset and nadir occur (i.e., becoming "data ready"). If your cat's nadir is at +3 will have you think about shooting differently than if your cat's nadir is at +8. (Most cats' nadir is closer to the middle of the cycle but nadirs can and do move around.) Once you have a feel for how Phoebe's cycle works, I encourage people to start thinking about where they are comfortable shooting and then start to lower that number. I used TR with Gabby. For those of us who followed TR, we shoot anything over 50. Generally, with SLGS, that number is a 90 but many of the people who use SLGS will shoot lower.

This sticky may help you think about shooting low. It's geared toward TR but it's useful reading regardless of which dosing method you're using.
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Thank you again -- I am learning so much and I appreciate you taking the time to educate me. That sticky was very helpful. One question -- how long after eating does a food spike typically occur?
 
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