Low Phosporus food & tumor

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Hales + Comet

Hales + Comet

Member Since 2019
We went back to the vet today to follow up on a lump we found Friday and it wasn't good news. The vet thinks it may be lymphoma but the ultrasound to test (biopsy not an option with diabetes) is too expensive and even if it was we can't treat because it would interfere with his diabetes and Renal disease treatments. We are trying to manage both the renal disease and diabetes after the new diagnosis on Friday by starting a low phosphorus food. I'm wondering how low I need to be. His phosphorus came back 6.6 and a normal range is 2.5 - 6.
 
Hales + Comet said:
by starting a low phosphorus food
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Check the "food" tab on Gizmo's SS. I have some listed there. This is another case where ECID and what Gizmo liked and ate Comet may or may not like. You are just going to have to try them. I suggest trying more than one time.

Another good brand to try is Weruva. Their web site lists all the values (phos, carb, calories, etc.)

https://weruva.com/cat-cuisine.php
 
We just got some Weruva topsy turvy and checkmate but I am worried it may not be high enough in protein and maybe too high in carbs (5%) but it was what was recommended to us for low phosphorus and still highish protein (we can't have too high for his kidney disease). We are trying very hard to get the Whole earth Farms duck pate but as mentioned it is extremely difficult to find.
 
Hales + Comet said:
we can't have too high for his kidney disease
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That isn't the case... go here and read on the Protien (and other nutritional info). More important is feeding as low phos as possible (and low carb with FD) as they will eat. Make sure you calculate caloric intake also to make sure he is getting enough to maintain weight (+/- if they need to gain or lose weight)

The formula for calories is on the food tab also.

http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm
 
I'm sorry to hear about the diagnose, sending you lots of :bighug:

What was his creatinine result?

It is important that you address his high levels of phosphorus because that can cause a lot of discomfort like nausea, loss of appetite, weakness

Regarding the food, ideally what you would need is a low carb low phosphorus food anything below 10% carbs and under 200 in phosphorus in Dr. Lisa's list, don't worry too much about the protein content (one has to compromise a bit in this circumstances ) unfortunately none of the fancy feast is going to be adequate because they are way high in phosphorus and his phosphorus level is already quite high and definitely no renal diets because they all are very very high in carbs for a diabetic cat there are some options though I think Weruba has some. Other alternative is to home cook his food that way you can actually control what he eats and it is usually a lot cheaper but a bit time consuming

Another option is to keep feeding him what he likes, not ideal but your first goal should always be that he eats so that he can keep his strength and use a phosphorus binder, most people use Aluminium Hidroxide

Here's a link to Tanya's web page where you will find a lot of information regarding CKD and phosphorus binders

http://www.felinecrf.org/phosphorus_binders.htm#aluminium_hydroxide
 
LizzieInTexas said:
That isn't the case... go here and read on the Protien
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Thank you so much that was extremly helpful and informative. I am so worried and anxious about doing something wrong so it's nice to hear that I can continue with his normal protein intake.

Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
I think Weruba has some. Other alternative is to home cook his food that way you can actually control what he eats and it is usually a lot cheaper but a bit time consuming
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We are starting Weruva tomorrow for a few days. He is really sensitive to food changes and last time we switched his numbers skyrocketed and when we switched back he was regulated again so I am nervous. Also ideally I would love to make his own food but like you said it is time consuming and I just don't have the time to commit to that. Also, the person who will be caring for him for the next month while I am gone does not want to make the food unfortunatly because I have heard that it is an excelent option.

I hope that made sense
 
Hales + Comet said:
He is really sensitive to food changes and last time we switched his numbers skyrocketed and when we switched back he was regulated again so I am nervous
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Yeah, sometimes that happens or they get an upset tummy from the switch. I realize that time isn't on your side with the upcoming travel but when switching food try 25% new food, 75% old food for 2-3 days then go 50/50 then 75/25. It may help his body adjust better to the new foods.

If higher carb than normally given (say 5% vs 3%) and it raises his BG then increase his insulin to compensate. Some kitties are more carb sensitive than others.
 
Hales + Comet said:
I've added an attachment to his most recent bloodwork in my signature if that helps. Part of the reason we have talked about going to a lower protein content is his total protein is very elevated
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It does, he's creatinine although is a bit high is not that bad he would be classified as stage 2, so restricting his protein intake is actually not much recommended especially since you want him to keep his weight and strength as much as possible.

Also the fact that his total protein is a bit high considering his albumin and globulins are also a bit high could most likely be related to him being a bit dehydrated or his other health issues, not really to the protein he's eating and restricting his protein intake not going to help in this issue, what you need is to try and make him drink more water you could see if he accepts adding water to his food so that he takes more like a soup or getting him a fountain

And what you really do have to address is his high levels of phosphorus so you need to either give him some low phosphorus food or add phosphorus binders to his food

Hales + Comet said:
We are starting Weruva tomorrow for a few days. He is really sensitive to food changes and last time we switched his numbers skyrocketed and when we switched back he was regulated again so I am nervous. Also ideally I would love to make his own food but like you said it is time consuming and I just don't have the time to commit to that. Also, the person who will be caring for him for the next month while I am gone does not want to make the food unfortunatly because I have heard that it is an excelent option.
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It could be a very good option for a cat with multiple issues, and yes you do have to dedicate a bit of time but for example in my case I prepare large batches of food one day, enough for 3 to 4 weeks and I freeze it in small containers with what they would eat for one o two days that I take out of the freezer as I need them, when I do it it does take me a few hours ( I cook for 4 so is a really big batch) but I only do it once a month, so is not that bad really
 
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Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
I prepare large batches of food one day, enough for 3 to 4 weeks and I freeze it in small containers with what they would eat for one o two days that I take out of the freezer as I need them, when I do it it does take me a few hours ( I cook for 4 so is a really big batch) but I only do it once a month, so is not that bad really
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I'm not trying to take over the thread (I apologize), but do you prepare raw food, or cooked food?
 
Daddy Jack's Mommy said:
I'm not trying to take over the thread (I apologize), but do you prepare raw food, or cooked food?
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I wish I could do raw but getting really fresh proteins here is a problem (chicken and turkey in my case to keep phosphorus as low as possible) so I do cook them but just to a point where it is not thoroughly cooked but I'm sure bacteria is killed, kind of if it were beef I would be leaving it medium rare hope this makes sense.
 
Veronica & Babu-chiri said:
I wish I could do raw but getting really fresh proteins here is a problem (chicken and turkey in my case to keep phosphorus as low as possible) so I do cook them but just to a point where it is not thoroughly cooked but I'm sure bacteria is killed, kind of if it were beef I would be leaving it medium rare hope this makes sense.
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Yep. It makes sense. I'm offering EZ Complete raw, but a couple of them won't eat it. I haven't given up yet, but if they keep refusing it, I may cook some for them and see how it goes.
 
Hales + Comet said:
We are trying very hard to get the Whole earth Farms duck pate but as mentioned it is extremely difficult to find.
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I just ordered from an online site called Healthy Pets. https://www.healthypets.com/whole-earth-farms-duck-cat-food-24x5oz.html I ordered 2 cases of 5 oz cans, at a decent price. They're of stock right now, but they anticipate getting it in a week and a half. They'll ship it when it comes. The company has good reviews, and I spoke to someone in customer service about the delay. (They were courteous and professional.) If this comes as hoped, I'll start ordering from them regularly. My cats love this stuff.
 
Bronx's dad said:
I use both. Healing Paws (Dr Mulry) is regular vet in Elmwood Pk, Blue Pearl (Dr Erikkson) in Paramus is his IM.
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Let me ask you. What did the IM vet do for you that was different from your reg vet? Did you find them helpful?

I think my vet is over her head with this and doesn't seem to want to talk treatment just suggested I find an IM vet to come up with a treatment plan.
 
IM is willing to be more aggressive with meds and is more familiar with conditions like acromegly and even FD. I would bring up some ideas (like Cabergoline) and he was willing to try it. Not sure if my local vet would've been willing to try that at that time when it was still under the early stages of trials. My local vet is great though too and so close to home which is great. They know Bronx well and he is treated like a king there.
 
Bronx's dad said:
IM is willing to be more aggressive with meds and is more familiar with conditions like acromegly and even FD. I would bring up some ideas (like Cabergoline) and he was willing to try it. Not sure if my local vet would've been willing to try that at that time when it was still under the early stages of trials. My local vet is great though too and so close to home which is great. They know Bronx well and he is treated like a king there.
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How expensive is your IM VET compared to your regular vet? Paramus isn't too far. I'll keep them in mind.
 
JanetNJ said:
How expensive is your IM VET compared to your regular vet? Paramus isn't too far. I'll keep them in mind.
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Definitely more expensive and a new cat needs a "consultation" visit which you pay a lot of money just to go over everything. I was forced to go there after my 1st vet (not the current local one I am using now) gave up on Bronx since he wasn't responding to insulin increases and suggested Blue Pearl or Oradell Animal Hospital. IM knew right away to do an IGF-1 test. However, I did have to suggest an IAA test at the same time from I learned on this board. If your regular vet is open to listening to what you have learned on here and willing to work with you, I would just stick with them. Of course, so many vets roll their eyes when you say things like "well others on a forum say this and that and why can't we try that, etc..." My IM actually is impressed from the knowledge I gained on here. I have heard great things about Oradell too.
 
Bronx's dad said:
Definitely more expensive and a new cat needs a "consultation" visit which you pay a lot of money just to go over everything. I was forced to go there after my 1st vet (not the current local one I am using now) gave up on Bronx since he wasn't responding to insulin increases and suggested Blue Pearl or Oradell Animal Hospital. IM knew right away to do an IGF-1 test. However, I did have to suggest an IAA test at the same time from I learned on this board. If your regular vet is open to listening to what you have learned on here and willing to work with you, I would just stick with them. Of course, so many vets roll their eyes when you say things like "well others on a forum say this and that and why can't we try that, etc..." My IM actually is impressed from the knowledge I gained on here. I have heard great things about Oradell too.
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Do you bring Bronx regularly to the im vet or usually just to your regular vet?
 
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