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Scott & Goliath

Scott & Goliath

Member Since 2019
My buddy, Goliath, was just diagnosed as diabetic on Monday and took him home Tuesday with new food (wet) and insulin (ProZinc @ 2 units 2x daily). He's used to dry grazing all day, but ate well enough yesterday and this morning, but tonight he only ate a miniscule amount, not enough for me to feel comfortable giving him tonights injection. Is this one missed dose going to be bad for him? Can i leave his food out to eat overnight or should I make him wait until before his next shot? I plan on calling our doctor in the morning, but I just need advice...and likely a shoulder to cry on since I am single and doing this alone. I'm so scared and worried about my buddy and I have no one to talk to about it all.
 
Heya, Take a deep breath, this is hard but you've found a great resource here.

One missed dose is ok, people make accidental "fur shots" all the time, and then you just have to wait til the next cycle, or life gets in the way, etc. it happens.


Are you testing him at home yet? What are his numbers like?

Switching foods at the same time as starting insulin, especially 2units...might see some fast drops...

Does he have any other health issues going on that might be affecting his blood sugar levels?

Not trying to overwhelm you, take your time reading and you don't have to reply til you have a minute.

Leaving food out depends on what else he might have going on healthwise...but ideally you don't want to let them eat 2 hours before their test time for their next shot. You want to know what their numbers are doing before deciding if or how much insulin to give them.

Take a deep breath, hang in there, I know it's super stressful but there are a lot of people here who have a lot of experience with all this who are super helpful and even stay up with you through the night in cases of hypoglycemic emergency, etc.


:bighug:
 
Hi Scott and Goliath.
Talk away to us as much as you like. That’s what we are here for... to support and help each other. And ask all the questions you want. It’s a steep learning curve in the beginning.
It’s important that Goliath eats so I would leave food down for him. Just take it up two hours before testing the BSL Preshot test if you are home testing. As Jay says one shot missed won’t ruin anything. The most important thing is to keep kitty safe.
I am not a Prozinc user but I think 1 unit is the dose most cats start on. I am going to tag @Rachel as she is a very experienced Prozinc user. Also @Djamila
Is Goliath not eating because you have swapped foods or because he may be feeling sick?
I would like to recommend you think about home testing the BLS ( blood sugar levels). It is easy to learn.., we will help you... and that way you will know exactly what the insulin is doing for Goliath... no guessing. Some vets don’t like home testing but it is much safer for Goliath, is cheaper than having curves done at the vet and you can see if the dose of insulin needs to be increased or decreased. Anyway think about it.
Here is the Prozinc page where most Prozinc users post. Have a read of the yellow stickies at the top of the page. They are full of information to do with Prozinc
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/prozinc-pzi.24/
Can you let us know how Goliath is tomorrow please and what the vet says ... thanks:)
Bron
 
Thank you for the quick replies. Right now, the only other medical issue he's had are Struvite crystals in his urine. I noticed Sunday, blood in his urine. Not enough to block him up, which happened in 2016, but that was what prompted my most recent visit to the vet. He's since been given antibiotics and pills for urethral spasms. I don't know if they affect his BSL. I have not gotten a testing kit yet as this all happened at a point in the month when I'm tight on funds...at least since the vet bill hit me the week before my rent due date, but I'm managing that.

This whole situation happened so fast and out of the blue it seems, and I had no time to prepare myself emotionally or financially. I have a glucose curve test next week and will try to get a kit then.
 
Scott Boerner said:
Thank you for the quick replies. Right now, the only other medical issue he's had are Struvite crystals in his urine. I noticed Sunday, blood in his urine. Not enough to block him up, which happened in 2016, but that was what prompted my most recent visit to the vet. He's since been given antibiotics and pills for urethral spasms. I don't know if they affect his BSL. I have not gotten a testing kit yet as this all happened at a point in the month when I'm tight on funds...at least since the vet bill hit me the week before my rent due date, but I'm managing that.

This whole situation happened so fast and out of the blue it seems, and I had no time to prepare myself emotionally or financially. I have a glucose curve test next week and will try to get a kit then.
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I totally understand. We couldn't afford to have the vet do the curve so we did our own, but a lot of people feel those curves aren't the best representation anyway because they're so stressed out at the vet their numbers are affected.

Walmart has Relion Meters that aren't too expensive, both the Prime and Premier (I like the Premier Voice but the prime is a few bucks cheaper) have the same price test strips and they're lowest price test strips I've seen.

I don't know anything about the other health issues or interference with medications but someone will respond to that. I do know that pain and infection can raise their numbers so if those things are able to be resolved or improved it could improve his numbers too.

Read the stickies/pinned posts on the forums, I'd read the ones about hypoglycemia "hypo", and the ones for Prozinc.

It's a lot and most of it will seem like a foreign language at first but eventually it will come together.

There are videos on youtube that show you how to test and inject, that was helpful for me , to see it being done, I watched a bunch to see different techniques til I felt like I was ready to try.

Just keep asking questions, and hang in there.
 
The meters Jay has mentioned ( human meters ) are good choices and the strips are relatively cheap. Don’t let the vet talk you into a pet meter. They are not necessary, the strips are very expensive and our methods / protocols here are based on the human Meters.
If Goliath is having trouble with Urinary crystals then wet food is far better than dry. Dry not only is high carb ( bad for diabetics) it only has 7% moisture. Wet food /canned is 78% moisture. Cats aren’t great drinkers so need all the water they can get. You might like to start a new post here on the main forum and ask about dietary choices for cats with crystals.
One thing I think you should think about is going out and buying a bottle of Ketostix from Walmart or a pharmacy. They are only about $10/12. They test the urine for ketones which can develop in diabetic cats especially if they have an infection or an inflammation, are not eating enough and are not getting enough insulin. I’m not wanting to alarm you. We advise most new diabetics to buy the Ketostix and test for ketones which can lead to the much more serious DKA. It’s like an insurance policy. I was concerned when you said Goliath was not eating, which is one of the symptoms and think getting a test would be a good idea and eliminate that issue.
You might ask the vet tomorrow if he tested for ketones and what was the result.
Ask for a copy of all the results of the tests that were done at the vet and keep a file for them at home.
 
Hey Scott and Goliath! And thanks for the tag Bron!

Structure crystals are bad but luckily can be resolved by diet. It’s probably pretty painful though...did the vet give any pain meds? And what antibiotic is he on? That can upset his tummy (I have one who just can’t take any at all). The pain and antibiotics could affect his eating so I’d definitely call the vet if he doesn’t start eating ASAP.

1 unit is a normal starting dose. Did the vet say why they started at 2? That could be high and as the other medical issues clear he might need less insulin suddenly...home testing will help you know that and I’m glad to hear you’re open to it!

We’re here for you always to vent or cry or anything! We get it...we’ve been there and it’s HARD.
 
Rachel said:
Hey Scott and Goliath! And thanks for the tag Bron!

Structure crystals are bad but luckily can be resolved by diet. It’s probably pretty painful though...did the vet give any pain meds? And what antibiotic is he on? That can upset his tummy (I have one who just can’t take any at all). The pain and antibiotics could affect his eating so I’d definitely call the vet if he doesn’t start eating ASAP.

1 unit is a normal starting dose. Did the vet say why they started at 2? That could be high and as the other medical issues clear he might need less insulin suddenly...home testing will help you know that and I’m glad to hear you’re open to it!

We’re here for you always to vent or cry or anything! We get it...we’ve been there and it’s HARD.
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The Dr didn't say why they started him at 2. I'm just trying to do exactly what they instructed me to. I don't know much about FD or the various types of insulin. I've contacted my vet, and she said that he can take the inulin as long as he eats at least a few mouth fulls.

No pain killers, just the ABs and the medicine for urethral spasms. I don't recall offhand what the antibiotics were called, but they are small round brownish color pills. Supposed to give him one and a half once a day for a week and then one pill once a day for another week. And I was instructed to give him the antibiotics with food. He does not seem in pain either at the moment
 
Scott & Goliath said:
The Dr didn't say why they started him at 2. I'm just trying to do exactly what they instructed me to. I don't know much about FD or the various types of insulin. I've contacted my vet, and she said that he can take the inulin as long as he eats at least a few mouth fulls.

No pain killers, just the ABs and the medicine for urethral spasms. I don't recall offhand what the antibiotics were called, but they are small round brownish color pills. Supposed to give him one and a half once a day for a week and then one pill once a day for another week. And I was instructed to give him the antibiotics with food. He does not seem in pain either at the moment
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I think a week is a long time to be shooting blind with 2 units and no testing done at all yet to see how it is affecting Goliath...

Prozinc usually starts at .5 - 1 unit... and that is with testing...

You could probably get a testing kit for $15-$20, I understand when funds are tight though. Honestly its a lot cheaper than the vets curve though, and a lot of people skip having it done at the vet.

If you could find a way to get a kit of your own and get a weeks worth of tests in before the curve is due, you might find you don't even want/need that curve and it will be a big money saver in the end.

I know the concept of testing him yourself and in just a week having enough experience and info that you wont need the vets curve sounds crazy, but trust me... after a week of this, if you're able to test, you're going to feel a lot better about what's going on with him from being able to see it for yourself on the spreadsheet. (which we'll help you with every step of the way.)



I'm not advising you to go against your vet... but... most of us here do when it comes to testing... they almost always tell us we don't need to test, and we always do.
 
Jasper Blue and Jay said:
I think a week is a long time to be shooting blind with 2 units and no testing done at all yet to see how it is affecting Goliath...

Prozinc usually starts at .5 - 1 unit... and that is with testing...

You could probably get a testing kit for $15-$20, I understand when funds are tight though. Honestly its a lot cheaper than the vets curve though, and a lot of people skip having it done at the vet.

If you could find a way to get a kit of your own and get a weeks worth of tests in before the curve is due, you might find you don't even want/need that curve and it will be a big money saver in the end.

I know the concept of testing him yourself and in just a week having enough experience and info that you wont need the vets curve sounds crazy, but trust me... after a week of this, if you're able to test, you're going to feel a lot better about what's going on with him from being able to see it for yourself on the spreadsheet. (which we'll help you with every step of the way.)



I'm not advising you to go against your vet... but... most of us here do when it comes to testing... they almost always tell us we don't need to test, and we always do.
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I honestly don't know anything about numbers for BGL or Ketones, how that's affected by his weight (14 lbs), age (11 yrs), or whatever else needs to be considered when choosing inulin and dosages. I've done some reading on the subject this week, leading me to this site and a few others. I'm willing to learn of course.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
I honestly don't know anything about numbers for BGL or Ketones, how that's affected by his weight (14 lbs), age (11 yrs), or whatever else needs to be considered when choosing inulin and dosages. I've done some reading on the subject this week, leading me to this site and a few others. I'm willing to learn of course.
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Yeah, numbers are like a foreign language to me in general, then add all the stress in and it was really hard for me to wrap my brain around it all but the people here on this site are great at walking you through it.

I want to give you all the info but at the same time not overwhelm you cause it all just gets jumbled into an overwhelming info dump anyway lol

It's hard to know the right dosage, but the testing will help with that. 2units is a lot, and it may be necessary but without any testing done yet it's hard to know, and risky to dose blind.

I wasn't able to test for ketones so I just went to "what do you do if there ARE ketones" and did that lol
It was; make sure they have plenty of water, make sure they're eating as much as they need, make sure they're getting insulin, and watch for symptoms.
I added water into their wet food to make sure they were well hydrated cause cats aren't really big drinkers lol


Is Goliath eating any more since you first posted?

It's really important that they eat, both hypoglycemia and ketoacidosis will make them need more food.

If he doesn't eat there are a lot of tricks like putting tuna juice in their low carb food.. there are some freezedried treats we use because they are zero carbs and don't have any other ingredients added...they're called PureBites , they're not cheap but if you can get a bag when funds allow they're good to have on hand in case they stop eating, you can crumble them on top of their food and it makes them want to eat whatever the food is lol

Making sure he eats and getting his blood sugar tested are very important right now.
 
Scott we all arrived here as you have at the beginning of the FD journey not knowing much about FD. This site is full of wonderful information and the best thing you could do for Goliath is to learn about it. A lot of the learning is as you go along, apart from the steep learning curve in the beginning.
What I would do if I were you is think about learning to test the BSL, set up your signature and a Spreadsheet. Then as you test, we can see how the numbers are going and we make suggestions. We usually tell you why we are making those suggestions and that is how you will learn a lot of what there is to learn.
To set up the signature, go to the top right of this page and click on your user name. Choose signature. Tell us yours and Goliath’s name, date of diagnosis, type and dose of insulin, any other illnesses or meds, type of meter when/if you get one, and country you live in. Then save. This will appear at the bottom of every one of your posts and it tells us all the basic information about Goliath so people don’t have to keep asking you.
Here is a link to FAQ. Have a look through those.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/forums/health-links-faqs-about-feline-diabetes.14/
 
Ok, so Goliath is eating... Still not as much as I'd like to see, but it's a good sign I hope. Didn't drink as much water as he should (practically none) so I filled a no needle syringe with water and gently squirted through the side of his mouth just so that he has water in his stomach. I am about to give him his next round of insulin. Judging by what I've heard here and a couple of other websites, if he doesn't eat as much as he should, I should cut the dose I normally give him in half. Is this sound advice? Also, I am going to pick up a testing kit hopefully by tomorrow. I also hear that urine testing kits can be better then the standard blood testing kits? Is that at all true and if so, what is a good brand of urine testing strips? What should his numbers be like to be considered the normal range for a cat his size and age?
 
I’m assuming you are talking about testing the blood sugar when you are asking about testing kits. Is that correct?
The urine testing strips you needs are Ketostix. They test for glucose and ketones. They are good to have to test for ketones.
No comparison between a urine testing result and a blood test result though. A blood test will tell you what the blood sugar result is that minute. A urine test for glucose will tell you how much glucose is in the urine since the last time Goliath peed. During that interval he could have gone up high and dropped down low and you would not know. You just get the amount of glucose that has tipped into the urine in the X number of hours between pees.
I’m so glad you are going to test the blood sugars. I would highly recommend you get a blood glucose meter to test the blood sugars. A human meter you can buy at Walmart or a pharmacy is best. A lot buy the ReliOn brand from Walmart.
I’m glad to hear Goliath is eating. Yes that’s a good sign! I meant to tell you to put what you are feeding him in the signature.
I am not a Prozinc user so I don’t like to comment on dosing when not eating all the food. Maybe @Rachel[/USER] can help you again with that.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
Ok, so Goliath is eating... Still not as much as I'd like to see, but it's a good sign I hope. Didn't drink as much water as he should (practically none) so I filled a no needle syringe with water and gently squirted through the side of his mouth just so that he has water in his stomach. I am about to give him his next round of insulin. Judging by what I've heard here and a couple of other websites, if he doesn't eat as much as he should, I should cut the dose I normally give him in half. Is this sound advice? Also, I am going to pick up a testing kit hopefully by tomorrow. I also hear that urine testing kits can be better then the standard blood testing kits? Is that at all true and if so, what is a good brand of urine testing strips? What should his numbers be like to be considered the normal range for a cat his size and age?
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Great that he's eating, less thirst can be a good sign because cats aren't really big drinkers.

So glad you're going to have a test kit soon.

I would definitely not give him 2units since you won't be able to monitor is blood sugar levels to make sure he's not becoming hypoglycemic... without knowing what his numbers are right now there is no way for anyone to say it's safe to give ANY insulin at all. Know what I mean?

I've never given my cat that much insulin, not once, not even when he was in the mid to high 300s, tonight I gave .25 and I'm still going to be up testing him for a while! lol So I'm firmly in the "do NOT give 2units without testing!" camp lol

There really isn't a "normal" range based on weight and age etc... it really depends mostly on what their blood sugar is and what other health issues they have going on... you want to err on the side of too little insulin til you know how it's affecting him. Most cats start on .5 to 1 unit of Prozinc. And even then we always test before we give them the shot, and we test again at different parts of the cycle, and we do a curve, etc.



The Relion Prime or Relion Premier meters at walmart are not expensive and more importantly their test strips are the cheapest. Both are $9 for 50, which can add up of course but other meters are often way more expensive.

I like the Relion Premier Voice meter a lot but many people here use a Prime.


You want a Relion meter, you want the matching test strips... and you want a box of the little lancet needles for poking, you don't need the device that uses them because its often much easier to freehand it and get the right spot, and the device makes a clicking noise that startles some cats cause its so close to their ear.

I use the relion microthins... there are some even thinner than that but sometimes at first their ears need to "learn how to bleed" and the thinner ones might be too hard to get a drop of blood at first.

I also use cotton balls to rip apart and put on either side of his ear when we're done to apply pressure to stop the bleeding, they say it makes the ear less sore over the long run when you do that too. Also sometimes I still hit a vein accidentally and that can bleed a lot! lol (I almost puke sometimes, yick)

Some people also use neosporin plus pain but that didn't work for us, it kept giving me error messages saying the blood was too thick.


You ever heard of a rice sock? lol You can put some uncooked rice in a sock and heat it up a little in the microwave. (be careful, it can get really hot!). sometimes especially early on or if it's cool where you live or there is a/c , you might need to warm the ear up first in order to help the blood flow...now that my guys ears are used to it I just have to rub the ear first but in the beginning that just did not cut it!

If you don't have a rice sock you can try other methods to warm it up, like a little plastic bottle with warm water in it or a warm washcloth but sometimes that gets the ear too wet.


(Walmart has cheap ketone urine test strips, those are fine. Meters that also test blood for ketones are pretty expensive and those strips are very expensive. I've not seen anyone here use them.)

Sorry if this is too much info, just take your time and feel free to ask for clarification or whatever, keep asking questions , there are no stupid questions, it's a lot of info and hard to keep track of it all.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
Ok, so Goliath is eating... Still not as much as I'd like to see, but it's a good sign I hope. Didn't drink as much water as he should (practically none) so I filled a no needle syringe with water and gently squirted through the side of his mouth just so that he has water in his stomach. I am about to give him his next round of insulin. Judging by what I've heard here and a couple of other websites, if he doesn't eat as much as he should, I should cut the dose I normally give him in half. Is this sound advice? Also, I am going to pick up a testing kit hopefully by tomorrow. I also hear that urine testing kits can be better then the standard blood testing kits? Is that at all true and if so, what is a good brand of urine testing strips? What should his numbers be like to be considered the normal range for a cat his size and age?
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*waves* Hi. I'm glad you found us and sorry your kitty needs you to be here.

It is 100% true this is the best place to be. Everything @Bron and Sheba said a couple comments back.

The meters you might be talking about are a kind that can use two kinds of strips. One kind of strip tests blood sugar, the other kind tests ketones. I think it's cheaper in the long run to just get a bottle of ketostix. You may not need a lot or you might, but they expire faster once opened. My Alice had recent diabetic ketoacidosis and I absolutely have to test her urine when I get a chance. I collect it with a clean spoon (long-handled works well for many). This is what my ketone test strips vial looks like, but ketostix are a common, reputable brand I believe.

Seeing you mention loss of appetite and infection set off my ketone alarm risk, personally. What's important is just to catch it early. It usually doesn't develop overnight, but having a cat go into shock from it was the second worst day of my life. I wish I'd checked her for them sooner.

But you're in a good place for help and support. So far you're doing great. :)
 

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Bron and Sheba said:
Scott when you are buying the lancets that are used to prick Goliaths ear with you need to buy a size 26 or 28 gauge. The thinner ones are usually no good until the ear has learned to bleed. You will have greater success with the thicker ones.
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I support this. I had 30ga and did alright but a friend sent me some 33ga and at least the cat I know isn't ready for those yet!
 
Thank you all. I will buy testing kit , strips, and needles for him tonight. I do not like the idea of shooting blind but until I've got the kit, its a gamble.

The infection is from the Struvite crystals in his urine and I caught it quickly enough that there weren't any serious issues with his urine flow.

He's shown no signs of hypo, but I'm waiting on a call back from the Dr about why 2 units.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
Thank you all. I will buy testing kit , strips, and needles for him tonight. I do not like the idea of shooting blind but until I've got the kit, its a gamble.

The infection is from the Struvite crystals in his urine and I caught it quickly enough that there weren't any serious issues with his urine flow.

He's shown no signs of hypo, but I'm waiting on a call back from the Dr about why 2 units.
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np.

After about a week of testing and everything else you'll pick up reading along the way...you'll already know better than the vet what his dose should be! lol ;)
(maybe sooner! lol)

Good job on the signature! Let us know if you need any help with the spreadsheet. :)
 
Finally got a hold of our Dr today and got more answered questions. When Goliath was diagnosed, they tested him and he was at 400. She did confirm that his weight was one reason that she started him at 2 units of ProZinc, actually, she said that she started him at 1.5 - 1.7(?) and felt comfortable leaving at two for now.

I also asked about the relion Kits, and she urged that I use the Alphatrak kits instead because they are specifically calibrated for cats and dogs. Unfortunately, she said I'd have to order one online and recommended Amazon.com. I ordered one and it will me here May 2nd.

We also discussed me doing the curve at home instead of bringing him in so they can do it. she agreed that because of his insulin schedule, which revolves around my second shift work hours, and her first shift office hours, it would actually be better for me to do it from home and share the numbers with her by phone.

She was happy that I took the initiative to speak to everyone here and to do research, and was happy to answer all my questions. I want to again thank everyone who responded to this thread to help me out. I will be posting his numbers here too once I get this kit in.
 
I’m glad your vet is aboard with testing and continuing on this board.
The human meters are just as good as the alphatrak meters and are a lot cheaper to run. Alphatrak strips are a lot more expensive, and our protocols and methods are based on the human meters. Up until the last few years vets all used the human meters and many still do. But don’t worry if you have already ordered it. It will just be more expensive for you. The difference in the numbers is: normal numbers in human meter for a cat 50-120. Normal numbers alphatrak for a cat 68-150.
Make sure once you get the meter that you put what type of meter in your signature as it makes a difference when we are helping you.
That’s great you can do the curves at home. Much more reliable and cheaper for you.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
Finally got a hold of our Dr today and got more answered questions. When Goliath was diagnosed, they tested him and he was at 400. She did confirm that his weight was one reason that she started him at 2 units of ProZinc, actually, she said that she started him at 1.5 - 1.7(?) and felt comfortable leaving at two for now.

I also asked about the relion Kits, and she urged that I use the Alphatrak kits instead because they are specifically calibrated for cats and dogs. Unfortunately, she said I'd have to order one online and recommended Amazon.com. I ordered one and it will me here May 2nd.

We also discussed me doing the curve at home instead of bringing him in so they can do it. she agreed that because of his insulin schedule, which revolves around my second shift work hours, and her first shift office hours, it would actually be better for me to do it from home and share the numbers with her by phone.

She was happy that I took the initiative to speak to everyone here and to do research, and was happy to answer all my questions. I want to again thank everyone who responded to this thread to help me out. I will be posting his numbers here too once I get this kit in.
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Just make sure to have a lot of test strips so you don't run out at a crucial time... those test strips aren't available at the store, so make sure to factor in delivery time when you're running low.
 
Just wanted to stop by and compare stories . My girl was diagnosed 3.5 weeks ago. She's same weight as Goliath and was prescribed 2u of Prozinc also. We switched her diet right away and started home testing the next day. I kept her at 2u cause hey.... That's what the vet said. ( Vet also told me not to worry about changing her diet even tho I had just mentioned all she eats is dry food. ). My girls numbers where all over the place!! 150-350. Under recommendation from the group I dropped her to 1u and almost immediately her numbers were consistently in the lower blue range. After less than a week of 1u we dropped to .5u and I think shortly here we'll be in remission.
I definitely think you should not stay at 2u. One of the many things Ive learned here is less is more. It's better to start smaller and work up if you need. Do the spreadsheet once you start testing. It's a numbers game.

Not gonna lie.... It's a little exhausting getting settled into a pattern. But you'll settle and so will Goliath. Ask lots of questions, learn when you should test (test, feed shoot!!). No food 2 hours before the test/shot. You want a BG result not influenced by food. Test and then give food and then dose him.

You found a great support system here.
 
Just wanted to give an update now that week one is in the bag.

Goliath seems to be doing quite well for the moment. getting him to eat his wet food was a little bit of a challenge, but the last couple days, I have been putting his food in the microwave for 10 or 15 seconds and serving it to him warm. he certainly enjoys that much more than cold from the can.

Giving him his insulin has become easier as well. He willingly lays in my lap most days and doesn't struggle when I give the injection.

I'm still waiting on his testing kit to come in the mail. It should be here Thursday, and I'll begin testing immediately to do his glucose curve.

I must admit, I am hesitant to give him less than the amount that my vet gave him. My sister-in-law, an LPN, also told me that it's better to give him the amount recommended by the vet until I'm instructed otherwise. It does make me nervous shooting blindly like this, and I know many here recommend to just drop it from two units to one, but I feel that the vet also has his best interests and wouldn't have me do two units if she wasn't comfortable and confident in her choice. Prozinc is supposed to be mild and long-lasting, so I don't think it'll cause any problems before the end of the week... Or at least I hope not.

As I said before, I am grateful for everyone here who's taking the time to help me. I will be posting his spreadsheet once I get his meter as well and I welcome any more advice and feedback. Anyting to fill up the memory bank lol.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
Just wanted to give an update now that week one is in the bag.

Goliath seems to be doing quite well for the moment. getting him to eat his wet food was a little bit of a challenge, but the last couple days, I have been putting his food in the microwave for 10 or 15 seconds and serving it to him warm. he certainly enjoys that much more than cold from the can.

Giving him his insulin has become easier as well. He willingly lays in my lap most days and doesn't struggle when I give the injection.

I'm still waiting on his testing kit to come in the mail. It should be here Thursday, and I'll begin testing immediately to do his glucose curve.

I must admit, I am hesitant to give him less than the amount that my vet gave him. My sister-in-law, an LPN, also told me that it's better to give him the amount recommended by the vet until I'm instructed otherwise. It does make me nervous shooting blindly like this, and I know many here recommend to just drop it from two units to one, but I feel that the vet also has his best interests and wouldn't have me do two units if she wasn't comfortable and confident in her choice. Prozinc is supposed to be mild and long-lasting, so I don't think it'll cause any problems before the end of the week... Or at least I hope not.

As I said before, I am grateful for everyone here who's taking the time to help me. I will be posting his spreadsheet once I get his meter as well and I welcome any more advice and feedback. Anyting to fill up the memory bank lol.
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I definitely agree that the vet has Goliath's best interest at heart but you've also changed up the diet since the diagnosis. You've changed half of the underlying issue. Look at my girls spreadsheet. She was prescribed 2u as well. We immediately switched to dry food and stayed at the 2u and she bounced all over the place. Their bodies kind of freak out when they get too much. It will hurt kitty more to have too much as opposed to not enough. In fact, because her numbers where all over the place I was thinking she should go with a hire dose until these awesome people told me to lower her dose. Look at the correlation between 2u and all pinks and yellows and the occasional blue to 1u and all blues and greens.

I hope you don't think I'm saying "you must do it!". Im just saying to think about it. You've changed the circumstances of the diagnosis. I would still be fighting all those pinks and yellows. I haven't gone back to the vet since diagnosis and scout is doing better than I would have imagined.
 
Scott & Goliath said:
I must admit, I am hesitant to give him less than the amount that my vet gave him. My sister-in-law, an LPN, also told me that it's better to give him the amount recommended by the vet until I'm instructed otherwise. It does make me nervous shooting blindly like this, and I know many here recommend to just drop it from two units to one, but I feel that the vet also has his best interests and wouldn't have me do two units if she wasn't comfortable and confident in her choice. Prozinc is supposed to be mild and long-lasting, so I don't think it'll cause any problems before the end of the week... Or at least I hope not.
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There is simply no way to know if it's the right amount without testing him...

Some cats are more sensitive to insulin than other cats, and without testing him you don't know whats going on with him.

His numbers could be dropping very low and then bouncing way higher than they were when diagnosed.

I'm not trying to scare you...

I'm just saying that 2 units of prozinc is a lot, even though it's "mild and long lasting" ... every cat is different...

Conversely, even if 2 units was fine at the time, some cats respond VERY quickly and their insulin needs can change very quickly... and maybe he doesn't need that muc anymore, especially now that he's getting lower carb food.

No matter how good the vets intentions are... without testing the cat there is no way to know how the insulin is affecting him.


Hypoglycemia can happen without any visible symptoms.

Again, I'm not trying to scare you or tell you what dose you should use.

I'm just saying this reasoning for shooting blind, 2 units, which is more than twice what many cats start out at..."good intentions" ... is not good reasoning.

Vets often prescribe too much, even with curves done.

Insulin needs can change very quickly.

Some cats can be very sensitive to insulin or have an unexpected reaction.

If you get a chance, look at some of our spreadsheets... you'll see very different reactions to the same dose of insulin, you'll see quick changes in the same cat with the same dose, etc.


Thursday is still many cycles away...

Those strips for that meter are expensive... many people here even if they start out with a pet meter...change over to a cheap walmart human meter with much much cheaper strips... and it's good to have a back up meter anyway...

I'm saying... you should go get a meter at walmart lol

And start testing as soon as possible.

Most people here use the human meters from walmart with great success.

Again, worst case scenario you have a back up if you run out of the expensive strips or the battery dies, etc.

All that being said... don't let me annoy you away from posting, lol, keep posting updates, and keep asking any questions you might have, don't mind me, I just feel it's important to remind, 2units is a lot, shooting blind is very risky, and insulin needs can change quickly.
 
Hi Scott.
Thanks for the update.
I would not stop Goliath’s insulin. Doing that would run the risk of developing ketones in the urine/blood.
If you can afford to buy a human meter to have as a backup, then a ReliOn is a good choice from Walmart. However I don’t want to make you feel you have to do that. I will be relieved though when you get the meter on Thursday and can test Goliath.
Do you have some high carb food (not dry) and honey or Karo at home in case of a hypo? By the time a cat shows signs of a hypo they are very low. Being able to test let’s us catch the numbers before they drop that low.

With warming the food on the microwave, you need to check it thoroughly before giving it to Goliath because microwaving will warm the food unevenly and there could be some hot spots. I always warm my cats food by putting their saucers, with the food on the plate, into hot water in the sink just deep enough for the plates to sit in the water but the food does not get wet. It warms the plates and the food. Only takes a couple of minutes and I agree, a warm meal is much more appealing than a cold one.
 
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I wanted to say something wise & useful, but the above replies to you really covered the ground! I like my ReLion Prime meter a lot: meter & strips cheap, gives good results (agreed with vet's test too), and very rugged (I drop it on my hard floor a lot).
 
Ok, so I've got Goliaths AlphaTrak2 kit today and will begin his curve immediately. I would like to know how to do a spreadsheet on here. Could somebody give me quick instructions on where I can do that?
 
Ok, so I know it's been a bit since I posted, and I know I haven't been filling out the spreadsheet on here, but that's mostly because I'm clueless as to how to fill it out. Instead, I've been keeping his numbers in a small journal.

So now and update. Goliath has been doing very well the last couple of weeks. He's been eating better and even becoming more active, which I think is resulting in him losing a little weight. Not an alarming amount, but enough that I notice. I did another glucose curve for him yesterday. His baseline was 117, and after food and one unit of insulin, he dropped down into the 50s and mid-forties over the next couple of hours before he began to go back up to 113. After speaking to our doctor today, she is comfortable in asserting that he may already be in remission. She has instructed me to stop his insulin and keep him on his current diet. She requested that I bring him back in a couple of weeks to have a another blood test that they need to send out to their labs. I can't recall what she called it.now, I fully understand that remission doesn't mean cured. I will keep testing his blood sugar on occasion and monitor his eating and drinking habits as closely as I can.

This has been a nerve-wracking few weeks, but I am obviously happy that he's pulling towards a great direction for the time being. Everyone here has been a fantastic help and I will continue to observe these forums and post in this one should anything new arise. I know I said this a dozen times already, but thank you to everyone who responded to this thread.
 
Hi Scott,
We recommend you gradually reduce the dose of insulin until you are giving 1/4 unit or less. If Goliath is still getting 1 unit and staying in the numbers you say,that is great, but you want a strong remission that Goliath can stay in. He is almost there but not quite.
I am going to tag @Marje and Gracie to explain it further,and @Djamila as she uses Prozinc
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Hi Scott,
We recommend you gradually reduce the dose of insulin until you are giving 1/4 unit or less. If Goliath is still getting 1 unit and staying in the numbers you say,that is great, but you want a strong remission that Goliath can stay in. He is almost there but not quite.
I am going to tag @Marje and Gracie to explain it further,and @Djamila as she uses Prozinc
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Thanks, Bron!!!

Here are instructions as to how to use the spreadsheet. We need to take a look at those numbers in order to get the best help for you and Goliath.

I actually defer to @Djamila regarding the cessation of Prozinc. I’ve not used it but I’ve seen cats on PZ go off insulin at higher doses than we use for Lantus or Levemir. It’s best a PZ user gives you the best answer here. Hopefully, she will pop in soon but you could reduce the dose to 0.5u to keep him safe and test and see what his numbers are on that dose while waiting for Djamila or another PZ user. If his BG goes up on 0.5u twice a day, you’ll know he’s not ready for a remission trial.
 
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Yaye for Goliath!! My girl is almost officially in remission as well. As they said above, drop down the dosage.... Don't rush Goliath's body. Please look at my spreadsheet to see how long we eased Scout off of it. That was all at the advice of members here.
 
Hi there! Sorry to be late to the party :). It's great to hear that Goliath is getting some good numbers! I would need to see the numbers in the spreadsheet to really be able to help with dosing since one curve isn't enough to know what's going on with a kitty for sure. It is enough though to say that you need to lower the dose. He shouldn't be in the 40's. Whether or not he's ready to go off insulin though, time will tell. When you get some of the data into the spreadsheets we can take a look. I'd say to try 0.5u and see how he does with that. I wouldn't suggest going from 1u to nothing without working down the dose - but again, I'd need to see some other data to know if 0.5u would be safe or not.
 
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