Curve test using Vetsulin

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Diane Tyler's Mom GA

Diane Tyler's Mom GA

Member Since 2018
Alpha Trak 2 strips vs Freestyle Lite or Freestyle Insulinx test strips
Discussion in 'Feline Health - (The Main Forum)' started by Mamakin, Yesterday at 3:05 PM.

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  1. Mamakin
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    Hi I have been seeing that some of you the Freestyle Insulinx in theirAlpha Trak Monitor. Are you satified with the readings. My vet makesme use the sliding scale for adjusting his insulin (Vetsulin). I testhim morning and evening. If using the Freestyle Insulinx strips and they may be a 20 point difference, I'm wondering when using thesliding scale would that make a difference in how many units I would give. Also what is the difference in the Freestyle Insulinx and the Freestyle Lite. This is what my vet makes me go by when giving the insulin If >220 increase by 0.5 units . If 100-220 do not change dose . If 80-100 decrease by 0.5 units . If 60-79 decrease by 1 unit. If <60 skip dose. So I go by his last reading when I test his sugar. He is on 6 units right now and just did his first curve test at home. She asked me to send her his reading from the last 2 weeks and here are some of them. 143 . 140. 151. 157. 130. 113 .121. 158. 118. 161. 109. Etc. Nothing really over 200. So when she saw them she wanted me to do the curve test because she said they looked good but maybe to good and might want to lower his unit to 5 units twice a day. So I did it yesterday which was 4-20-19 I started at 9 am. Tested him at 9 am and he was 118, then I fed him his fancy feast chicken pate, waited 20 minutes and then gave him 6 units of Vetsulin. Tested at 11 am it was 99. Tested at 1 pm it was 68. Tested at 3 pm it was 76 . Tested at 5 pm it was 96 . Tested at 7 pm it was 96 again. Tested at 9 pm it was 109. So now I have to feed him and give insulin. I took it upon myself and only gave 5-1/2 units until I speak to her on Monday. I then decided to test him at 11 pm and he was at 84. Then I tested him at 1:25 am and he was 50 so I gave him some dry food because I got nervous. Today I tested him like usual at 9 am and he was at 161 then fed him and still gave 5-1/2 units .Tested him at 1 pm and it was 37 ( what the hell) I gir nervous so I gave him some dry food. Just tested now 3 pm and it went to 111 . That reading of 37 was strange. So I will talk to her on MindaM and see what she wants to do about his units. I'm sorry I have to write it like this , I can't do a spread sheet because my tablet is too old, I checked with the manufacturer and that's why I can't write on it. Someone here ,sorr s can't remember her name right now but she did create the spreadsheet but I was unable to write on it. What do you all think about his numbers . Thanks so much and Happy Easter

    Tyler’s Spreadsheet
    Yesterday at 3:05 PMEditReport
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  2. MrWorfMen's Mom
    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    I'm sorry your post got kind of lost in the queue.

    I'm assuming the readings you have quoted above were taken using the proper AT2 strips with the meter set to the code on the strip vial and not with some alternative strip like Insulinx or Freestyle Lite.

    Please DO NOT give insulin to Tyler at a BG of 109 on the AT2 meter. That is a totally normal BG on the AT2 meter.
    Those readings of 37 & 50 are extremely dangerous and means the 5.5u dose of insulin needs to be reduced. Normal BG on the AT2 meter is 68 to 150. Even the reading of 68 is a call for you to feed Tyler to ensure he doesn't drop any lower.

    I know you are having issues with your tablet but it's very difficult/impossible to offer specific advice without seeing what has been happening day to day for the last week or 2.

    ↑
    This is what my vet makes me go by when giving the insulin If >220 increase by 0.5 units . If 100-220 do not change dose . If 80-100 decrease by 0.5 units . If 60-79 decrease by 1 unit. If <60 skip dose.
    I hate to criticize your vet but that sliding scale is not safe. I'm not a fan of sliding scale dosing as they make it impossible to really see how any particular dose is working for kitty if the dose is changing constantly. That said they do work for some cats once their response to different doses is known and perhaps Tyler's response has been established for each of those dose recommendations. Under no circumstances would I consider it safe to give Tyler 5u of insulin or even 4u at a pre-shot BG of 60 to 79. Given the numbers you have been seeing lately I would definitely reduce the dose, monitor him closely and withhold the shot for a pre-shot BG of 200 or less until you see how low the reduced dose is taking Tyler's BG.

    As for using the alternate strips in the AT2 meter, it can be done but without the right code for the strips, you may get a ballpark number but it will not likely be the most accurate possible and it could be either higher or lower than it would be with the proper AT2 strips with the right code. That could be very dangerous when Tyler seems to be getting some pretty low readings recently and not a risk I would personally be willing to take.

    If you are looking for a cheaper testing alternative, I would strongly suggest you get a human meter as the strips are considerably less expensive and we can help you understand those readings as the human meter will read a bit lower than the AT2 in general.

    Menace 2018 Human Meter SS |Menace 2016 AT2 Meter SS|Menace's 2015 FS/AT Meters SS |Canadian|FS Freedom Lite meter|IAA - 67% Nov2015|DO NOT COPY DOSING|OTJ 17Sep2018
    Today at 7:09 PMReport
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  3. CassandraCatface
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
    Those numbers would scare me! You ready received way better advice than I could write up, but I second it.

    And at first I was hung up on trying to have an alphatrak because my vet recommended it. But it's more important to be able to afford to test than worry about how much each strip costs. I hope you get things sorted! :)

    Alice's spreadsheet. OK, US (CST). Friskies & FF, +freezedried, 0, 2, and 4%. *hospitalized DKA 4/5/19 - 4/7/19
    Giving a huge thanks to DCIN <3
    50 minutes agoReport
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  4. Mamakin
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    ↑
    I'm sorry your post got kind of lost in the queue.

    I'm assuming the readings you have quoted above were taken using the proper AT2 strips with the meter set to the code on the strip vial and not with some alternative strip like Insulinx or Freestyle Lite.

    Please DO NOT give insulin to Tyler at a BG of 109 on the AT2 meter. That is a totally normal BG on the AT2 meter.
    Those readings of 37 & 50 are extremely dangerous and means the 5.5u dose of insulin needs to be reduced. Normal BG on the AT2 meter is 68 to 150. Even the reading of 68 is a call for you to feed Tyler to ensure he doesn't drop any lower.

    I know you are having issues with your tablet but it's very difficult/impossible to offer specific advice without seeing what has been happening day to day for the last week or 2.



    I hate to criticize your vet but that sliding scale is not safe. I'm not a fan of sliding scale dosing as they make it impossible to really see how any particular dose is working for kitty if the dose is changing constantly. That said they do work for some cats once their response to different doses is known and perhaps Tyler's response has been established for each of those dose recommendations. Under no circumstances would I consider it safe to give Tyler 5u of insulin or even 4u at a pre-shot BG of 60 to 79. Given the numbers you have been seeing lately I would definitely reduce the dose, monitor him closely and withhold the shot for a pre-shot BG of 200 or less until you see how low the reduced dose is taking Tyler's BG.

    As for using the alternate strips in the AT2 meter, it can be done but without the right code for the strips, you may get a ballpark number but it will not likely be the most accurate possible and it could be either higher or lower than it would be with the proper AT2 strips with the right code. That could be very dangerous when Tyler seems to be getting some pretty low readings recently and not a risk I would personally be willing to take.

    If you are looking for a cheaper testing alternative, I would strongly suggest you get a human meter as the strips are considerably less expensive and we can help you understand those readings as the human meter will read a bit lower than the AT2 in general.
    Click to expand...
    Hi thanks for getting back to me. My vet called me just now after looking at his 2 curve tests and said they were definitely too low. She wants me to reduce his units to 5 and wants me to do another curve test in 3 weeks. I am using the Alpha Trak test strips when testing him and set to the code on the container. I test him every morning and every night, but I will do a few test in between since lowering him to 5 units. About the sliding scale, she gave it to me, that her another vet uses in her office. I will definitely talk to her about it. This may be a dumb question but other than using a sliding scale , how do you or other people decide on what dose to give.I am going to test him at 9 pm and see what it is. Using the Alpha Trak 2 and the Alpha Trak test strips what is considered to be an acceptable BG level. I asked my vet but forget what she said, this as awhile back that I had asked her, if I remember she might have said 200 or below, but forget what the lowest number was she said. I'm going to definitely call her tomorrow. Hope to hear back from you and thank you

    Last edited: 2 minutes ago
    Tyler’s Spreadsheet
    18 minutes agoEditDeleteReport
    #4Reply


  5. Mamakin
    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2018
    ↑
    Those numbers would scare me! You ready received way better advice than I could write up, but I second it.

    And at first I was hung up on trying to have an alphatrak because my vet recommended it. But it's more important to be able to afford to test than worry about how much each strip costs. I hope you get things sorted! :)
    Hi thanks for your reply, and I have always used the Alpha Trak test strips and will continue to use them. Just so I don't have to re write when I spoke to my vet today , please read what I wrote back to Mr Wofsmen's mom. Thank you

    Tyler’s Spreadsheet
    13 minutes agoEditDeleteReport
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  6. CassandraCatface
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2019
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    This may be a dumb question but other than using a sliding scale , how do you or other people decide on what dose to give. Hope to hear back from you and thank you
    There is never a dumb question, only questions that will help you help kitty. :)

    http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/beginners-guide-to-caninsulin-vetsulin.186099/
    Have you reviewed this? Maybe some info in the ISG.

    I never used vetsulin but I used NPH. With such a fast-acting insulin, and your cat reading lower, I would recommend getting tests frequently, especially during possible peak/nadir, when hypo risk would possibly be higher. I know that doesn't give you a specific time to check, I don't feel qualified for that.

    Alice's spreadsheet. OK, US (CST). Friskies & FF, +freezedried, 0, 2, and 4%. *hospitalized DKA 4/5/19 - 4/7/19
    Giving a huge thanks to DCIN <3
    7 minutes agoReport
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Hi I might have screwed this up, meaning I first posted this on the main forum asking about the Alpha Trak test. Strips and wanted to re post. It. Using .the title. Curve. Test. Using Vetsulin, sorry if I did it wrong. Just didn't want to re type the whole thing. As you can see two people replyed back and I answered them back, I hope you can see where I answered them back. Thanks
 
I just tested him at 9:30 he was 121, do you think I should go ahead giving him the 5 units like my vet told me tonight after seeing is 2 curve tests, he was in 6 units before this, just to remind , I am using the sliding scale. This morning he was at 134
 
Oh gosh, I wouldn’t be giving 5 units of vetsulin on a reading of 121 on a pet meter! That’s almost a normal range, and a BIG dose of a very hard hitting insulin. I am no expert but I wouldn’t be shooting that at all.
 
flyingduster said:
Oh gosh, I wouldn’t be giving 5 units of vetsulin on a reading of 121 on a pet meter! That’s almost a normal range, and a BIG dose of a very hard hitting insulin. I am no expert but I wouldn’t be shooting that at all.
Click to expand...
Thanks I just tested him at 10:45 without giving the insulin and it was 102 how can that be, I think I won't be giving any insulin at all tonight and will call her in the morning , of course I will test him in the am. Thanks
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If the pancreas is working, it's normal to see the number drop after feeding.
Click to expand...
Yes it is, I thought after feeding the BG goes up , that's why you wait 1/2 hr to give insulin I've been asking this question to everyone but haven't gotten an answer, maybe you can tell me, if someone is not using the sliding scale, then what are people using to give the correct amount of insulin
 
Mamakin said:
I thought after feeding the BG goes up , that's why you wait 1/2 hr to give insulin
Click to expand...

Yes, with Vetsulin, we recommend waiting 20-30 minutes after eating so that when the insulin "hits", there is food on board.

Other insulins like Lantus, it's not as important that they eat a certain amount before shooting (because it's usually more gentle and doesn't "kick in" for 2-3 hours)
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Yes, with Vetsulin, we recommend waiting 20-30 minutes after eating so that when the insulin "hits", there is food on board.

Other insulins like Lantus, it's not as important that they eat a certain amount before shooting (because it's usually more gentle and doesn't "kick in" for 2-3 hours)
Click to expand...
Don't know if you saw I edited my post, my question is if someone is not using the sliding scale to give insulin, then what are they doing to know how much insulin to give, I don't understand this
 
Mamakin said:
my question is if someone is not using the sliding scale to give insulin, then what are they doing to know how much insulin to give, I don't understand this
Click to expand...

I'm not qualified to try to answer this because I've never used Vetsulin.

I do know that it can be used with a sliding scale, but 5 units of Vetsulin is a huge dose. Most of the time, if they're under 200, we won't suggest giving any Vetsulin (at least until you have a lot of data on how your cat responds to both insulin and feeding)
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
I'm not qualified to try to answer this because I've never used Vetsulin.

I do know that it can be used with a sliding scale, but 5 units of Vetsulin is a huge dose. Most of the time, if they're under 200, we won't suggest giving any Vetsulin (at least until you have a lot of data on how your cat responds to both insulin and feeding)
Click to expand...
Thanks , I will let you know what happens tomorrow ok, have a good rest of the night
 
Mamakin said:
Don't know if you saw I edited my post, my question is if someone is not using the sliding scale to give insulin, then what are they doing to know how much insulin to give, I don't understand this
Click to expand...
It is the same as any other insulin; you go by the nadir (the lowest point they get to between the shots) to adjust a dosage. You don’t go by only the preshot number. Although yes the preshot number does come into play if it’s low, on which case you may need to give a reduced dose or skip, but that all depends on the data you already have too.

But generally, dosage advice is given based on the nadir. NOT the preshot numbers.

Vetsulin is a fairly hard and fast insulin and it leaves the body as fast as it hits, so it doesn’t *need* the very consistent dosing as much as a different insulin might, but it still stands to reason that changing the dosage up and down every day doesn’t help to get a picture!
 
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