Considering Lantus, Vetsulin not helping at all.

S

Sapphire Skye

Member Since 2019
My Sapphire has been on Vetsulin for over 2 months with no change in her numbers. Breaks my heart seeing her just lay there. Anyone here start out with Vetsulin with no results and saw a dramatic change for the positive on Lantus? I am so desperate to have my old Sapphire back. She is only 2 yrs old I see Lantus as my last resort. What kind of life is it if she is just laying around and staring into space. She used to be such a squirrly and spunky cat. I hurts me so much to say it bc I love her so much and have been diligent about her care since she was diagnosed. I am seriously thinking if that does not help her I need to let her go. :( Pls see info in my signature. She is on wet food, I do home testing, UAs and her glucose curves. Up to about a week ago she has a ravenous appetite and recently she hasn't been. I worry bc I am not sure if that is a bad thing. She is scheduled to see her new vet this Saturday.
 
Yes, we've had a lot of kitties here that did much better on Lantus than they did on Vetsulin. Vetsulin just isn't usually a very good insulin for cats (but it's fine for dogs)

I really think it's worth it to switch.

As for the appetite issue, are you checking for ketones? High numbers plus not eating can lead to DKA very quickly.
 
I second @Chris & China (GA) on the not eating etc DKA recipe.

I was using NPH until a week and a half ago or so. The only way it worked for Alice was an aggressive dose every 8 hours. As far as I understand Vetsulin there is a short-acting similarity with NPH, and many cats struggle with it.

Alice ended up costing over $2,000, 3 nights in the hospital, and another week of no sleep while I nursed her. I don't want to scare you, just be aware!

But right now even though her Lantus dose isn't perfect and she's still running higher, she's more herself, purring, alert, and gaining weight. She was barely 4lbs maybe a month ago. (I weigh in kg, so low weight was 1.83kg and she was 2.32kg 45 min ago.) When she was 100% she was more like 7lbs....

Shorter answer: yes I think it's worth trying. But first please check for ketones, and if kitty starts vomiting combined with high numbers and low appetite, any weight loss, I would contact a vet asap.
 
Neko was on Caninsulin for two months. Vetsulin is the same thing, just rebranded in the US to not sound like s dog insulin. Anyway, she got to five units of Caninsulin, with just some mid blues. It didn’t last long with her, she was high a lot of the day. Lantus was much better, though she ended up on a higher dose. Neko had a couple secondary conditions that meant she needed a higher dose of insulin.
 
CassandraCatface said:
I second @Chris & China (GA) on the not eating etc DKA recipe.

I was using NPH until a week and a half ago or so. The only way it worked for Alice was an aggressive dose every 8 hours. As far as I understand Vetsulin there is a short-acting similarity with NPH, and many cats struggle with it.

Alice ended up costing over $2,000, 3 nights in the hospital, and another week of no sleep while I nursed her. I don't want to scare you, just be aware!

But right now even though her Lantus dose isn't perfect and she's still running higher, she's more herself, purring, alert, and gaining weight. She was barely 4lbs maybe a month ago. (I weigh in kg, so low weight was 1.83kg and she was 2.32kg 45 min ago.) When she was 100% she was more like 7lbs....

Shorter answer: yes I think it's worth trying. But first please check for ketones, and if kitty starts vomiting combined with high numbers and low appetite, any weight loss, I would contact a vet asap.
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Wow, I hope I dont have to drop $2000. I already dropped $1000 in the first month after diagnosis between vet bills, meds and FD mgmt supplies.

She used to be a big solid cat, not fat and she is now so thin and you can feel all her bones. I let her eat some dry and only Dr. Elsey clean protein. I feel at this point its important for her to eat. I can be difficult when the other 2 are healthy and eat her food also. ( dr elseys is expensive so i only feed her the dr elseys). The other are on FF pates also. Thankfully she is not vomiting. I am also concerned about quality of life. That is huge for me. I know this weekend my wallet is going to take a hit at the new vet and I am optimistic. I am just so thankful a friend was able to get me some Lantus at a VERY good price and so with a vet to help me with the transition I am praying for good results. I told her she doesnt have to grace the show ring ever again just get better.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
Yes, we've had a lot of kitties here that did much better on Lantus than they did on Vetsulin. Vetsulin just isn't usually a very good insulin for cats (but it's fine for dogs)

I really think it's worth it to switch.

As for the appetite issue, are you checking for ketones? High numbers plus not eating can lead to DKA very quickly.
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Ketones have been showing as Trace in her UA. That concerns me too.(see Labs tab)
 
Sapphire Skye said:
She used to be a big solid cat, not fat and she is now so thin and you can feel all her bones. I let her eat some dry and only Dr. Elsey clean protein.
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If you haven't already done it, take a look at China's profile (in my signature)….she was a walking skeleton when she was first diagnosed

Sapphire is still a very young cat.....I'm hoping you have the same good luck with Lantus that we did.
 
Chris & China (GA) said:
If you haven't already done it, take a look at China's profile (in my signature)….she was a walking skeleton when she was first diagnosed

Sapphire is still a very young cat.....I'm hoping you have the same good luck with Lantus that we did.
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Yes she is, just 3 weeks before diagnosis she was at a cat show in Houston and had earned her Supreme title. So it was surreal and heartbreaking how she went from close to 15lbs to 12lb so quickly. . I am having such a hard time keeping it together at times. My melt downs have been frequent lately followed by waking up in the middle of the night reading and researching about FD and related conditions. Of my 3 she is my favorite and had brought so much pride and joy.
 
Sapphire Skye said:
Yes she is, just 3 weeks before diagnosis she was at a cat show in Houston and had earned her Supreme title. So it was surreal and heartbreaking how she went from close to 15lbs to 12lb so quickly. . I am having such a hard time keeping it together at times. My melt downs have been frequent lately followed by waking up in the middle of the night reading and researching about FD and related conditions. Of my 3 she is my favorite and had brought so much pride and joy.
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The grief in the illness and diagnosis is real. And I am so sorry for you both. I still research in the middle of the night sometimes and as soon as I wake up from any sleep, I instantly worry and want to check in on my girl.

As far as quality of life, I'm not there and cant speak specifically to your furbaby, but I have seen some resilient cats bounce back with the right care. Alice was a horror story less than a month ago and I don't think even the ER vet would believe the difference now. She's much improved.

Hopefully no, you won't have to worry about a hospitalization cost. That's the ketone concern. Are you able to test at home for ketones? (Am I understanding correctly the vet has done the testing before??)
 
AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
Hopefully no, you won't have to worry about a hospitalization cost. That's the ketone concern. Are you able to test at home for ketones? (Am I understanding correctly the vet has done the testing before??)
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The UA strips I have test for ketones but no specific numbers just by color. i mostly get trace. I have looked into a blood ketone tester but the test strips are just as expensive as the glucose strips (AT $53) and require a different device all together. I feel that once I use up all the AT strips I should switch to human and then I can get the ketone tester.
 
Sapphire Skye said:
The UA strips I have test for ketones but no specific numbers just by color. i mostly get trace. I have looked into a blood ketone tester but the test strips are just as expensive as the glucose strips (AT $53) and require a different device all together. I feel that once I use up all the AT strips I should switch to human and then I can get the ketone tester.
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The ketone strips you are using are fine as long as they are not damaged or expired. If he goes above trace that could become a serious sign of concern.

It sounds like you are doing a good job so far in testing. Someone knowledgeable here may be able to help you safely with a transition to Lantus. That could be what makes things better. :)
 
My kitty was one of the rare ones who actually didn't do too badly on Vetsulin. However, I decided to try Lantus, because I was tired of the frequent frustration of whether or not, and how much, to dose with Vetsulin. It was the best decision I could have made. Squallie really flourished on Lantus, and I was able to get him in tight regulation. I honestly believe he would have gone OTJ if he hadn't developed cancer.
 
Hey Denice!

Mowgli was just diagnosed in March and we started with Caninsulin (aka vetsulin). After just a few weeks on Caninsulin it became clear that it wasn't a great choice for Mowgli for a couple of reasons. The biggest problem was that he would have his nadir very early in the cycle and then spend the rest of the day in high numbers, and the other problem was that with Caninsulin you really have to be sure that your cat eats after their dose to mitigate any chances of a hypoglycemic event. Since I am not able to leave work during the day to check on him and didn't really want to have to worry about force feeding him, I decided with consultation from this forum and my vet to switch to Lantus.

These are some of the perks that helped me with my decision:
  • Lantus is longer acting: it typically lasts a full cycle, and typically has a more shallow curve (keeping in mind ECID). This took a lot of worry about Mowgli's chances of a Hypo event while I'm away at work
  • Lantus has a longer shelf life: If stored properly in the refrigerator it can last from 6 months to until it is finished (despite the 28 day after opening expiry noted on the package)
  • Lantus is affordable: Mostly because of the point above, you don't have to replace a half empty vial because of an expiry noted on the vial.
  • Lantus is available in pens: You can get a set of 5 solo star pens which is essentially the same as getting five 3mL vials. This is great because you don't have to risk contamination of your total Lantus supply once one is open, and you can still use U-100 3/10cc syringes with them.
  • Lantus is available over the counter (in Canada): This was a huge perk for me being from Canada because my work hours take me past the opening hours of my local vet so I would have had to take time off of work to grab a prescription. I do see that you are from the US, I've read around here that a lot of Americans order their Lantus from Mark's Marine Pharmacy with really favorable results. You can see a post about that from the Lantus Levemir ISG HERE.
While Mowgli has only been on Lantus for a month or so, I have definitely noticed a favorable downward trend of his BG levels, he does tend to bounce from time to time, but I think that is partially due to some of my inconsistent dosing (Still new + work away from home = nervous to shoot full doses at low numbers). From a cost perspective, I personally believe that Lantus is the more affordable option because of how long the insulin can last, the up front cost will be worth it. Another way to save on costs could be to consider a human glucometer since the strips cost much less.

Based on the results you are getting from Vetsulin, I would say it wouldn't hurt to try Lantus... especially if you're worried about her quality of life, I have a good feeling that Sapphire could really see a positive change with Lantus! (keep in mind that this is a gut feeling with from my very limited experience)

Good luck! and Feel Better Sapphire!
 
M'row was started off on Lantus, and it's working really well, see the post just above mine for all the positives. I keep his vial in a plastic box with a snap-on lid on the top shelf (less chance of it getting contaminated by food falling on it) in the refrigerator, swab off the top of the vial with an alcohol swab before using it. So, I think I have every chance of using the whole vial up, even though he gets only 1/2 unit twice a day. I just check the vial for cloudiness (this means contamination, = time for a new vial). Keep us posted, please!
 
Check out my Jasmines spreadsheet. Actually, just look at the colours on this screenshot of it to get a quick obvious overview. You know what the colours mean on the spreadsheet, so check out the change Jazz had from vetsulin at the top for a month or so, then the switch to lantus below that break I made in the chart.
4EA7B693-9EEA-4117-9CC8-06518DAE1099.png


The colour change of her overall levels was massive. But also notice she was bouncing hugely on vetsulin and now much more stable on lantus.

Still needing lots of tweaking yet, and still running mostly higher, but not nearly as bad as she was!!!
 
flyingduster said:
Check out my Jasmines spreadsheet. Actually, just look at the colours on this screenshot of it to get a quick obvious overview. You know what the colours mean on the spreadsheet, so check out the change Jazz had from vetsulin at the top for a month or so, then the switch to lantus below that break I made in the chart.
View attachment 44539

The colour change of her overall levels was massive. But also notice she was bouncing hugely on vetsulin and now much more stable on lantus.

Still needing lots of tweaking yet, and still running mostly higher, but not nearly as bad as she was!!!
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Impressive! Just got back from Sapphire’s new vet and i was surprised she did nor order a full workup of blood work. I was thankful but was ready. She gave the blessing to proceed with Lantus and gave me a WRITTEN rx! :) Something the other vet would not do so I could but rx stuff at that clinic. New vet is supportive about getting supplies where it is most affordable for client. Now I need to get u100. I have 2 boxed of u40 that are of no use to me now. Which will be the best choice bw these u100 syringes?
 

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