? Considering switching from Caninsulin to Lantus, unsure if current dose is large enough to switch

Kitty Anderson

Kitty Anderson

Member Since 2019
We have been thinking of switching our Princess Kraken from Vetsulin to Lantus. She also has kidney disease and is on Captropil 1ml/mg at 1 ml dose every 12 hours.

She is currently on a dose of 0.3 units of Vetsulin which is 0.75 drawn in a U100 syringe. From what I've read then when starting on Lantus then you use the same dose as the insulin you were using before.. I'm not sure if that applies also to Vetsulin.

Is she possibly on too small a dose to be switched? We had a low blue PMPS 83 (149) reading Friday night and she got 0.1 units followed by high blue/low yellow depending on world or US AMPS of 11.1 (200) the morning after and got 0.2 units. I think she should have gotten a 0.3 dose then because she didn't go down as expected but we weren't sure so decided to not chance it as I am away and DH had to go out that morning and just made it home in time for a +4.

Is it even possible to switch such a low dose or is she doing well enough on Vetsulin for that switch to not be reccomended?

Her new vet isn't negative to switching her but has almost no expierience with Lantus. I think she has only switched one cat to Lantus that wasn't responding to Caninsulin (I think that was the case not 100%).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated! :cat:
 
If you can draw 0.3 of Vetsulin, you can draw it with Lantus. Have you ever tried Dosing with Calipers? It will allow you to accurately and consistently dose in 0.1u increments and if you get really good st it, even less than that.

She’s getting into a nice range on 0.3u. I’d suggest starting her at that dose. If it makes you a bit nervous, you can start her at 0.1u and take her up after two cycles if she’s trending higher. If you do start at 0.3u, monitor closely the first cycle. We don’t typically see a big reaction as the depot has to fill but occasionally we do so switch on a cycle when you can be there to monitor.

Good luck with the switch!
 
You typically want to make a direct switch from Vetsulin (or any shorter acting insulin) to Lantus. Given that some cats who have been recently diagnosed and are immediately put on Lantus may have their dose at 0.5u, I don't think 0.75 is too small of a dose. A Marje noted, calipers can be helpful with dosing consistently.

Your cat's numbers are by no means bad. It looks to me like she has an early nadir on Vetsulin and you could be getting better duration. The latter may not be possible on Vetsulin. The worst that can happen is you give Lantus a try. If you don't like it, you can always go back.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
If you can draw 0.3 of Vetsulin, you can draw it with Lantus. Have you ever tried Dosing with Calipers? It will allow you to accurately and consistently dose in 0.1u increments and if you get really good st it, even less than that.

She’s getting into a nice range on 0.3u. I’d suggest starting her at that dose. If it makes you a bit nervous, you can start her at 0.1u and take her up after two cycles if she’s trending higher. If you do start at 0.3u, monitor closely the first cycle. We don’t typically see a big reaction as the depot has to fill but occasionally we do so switch on a cycle when you can be there to monitor.

Good luck with the switch!
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We haven't used calipers but maybe we should.

We've been using U100 syringes so are using 0.1 unit increments as they are 0.25 un the U100 which we can measure. Without something like calipers I don't think we could measure 0.3. DH spent a lot of time practising 0.25 and 0.75 while I was there to check because I have a lot of syringe experience. I'll have to talk about caliper measurement with him as for 6 months of the year I'm travelling for work. :/
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
You typically want to make a direct switch from Vetsulin (or any shorter acting insulin) to Lantus. Given that some cats who have been recently diagnosed and are immediately put on Lantus may have their dose at 0.5u, I don't think 0.75 is too small of a dose. A Marje noted, calipers can be helpful with dosing consistently.

Your cat's numbers are by no means bad. It looks to me like she has an early nadir on Vetsulin and you could be getting better duration. The latter may not be possible on Vetsulin. The worst that can happen is you give Lantus a try. If you don't like it, you can always go back.
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That's why I want to switch to Lantus, I feel like she is just getting a 8 to 9 hour duration.

But her current dose is 0.3 units of U40 insulin drawn in a U100 syringe so the level for each 0.1 unit of U40 insulin is 0.25 in the U100 syringe. So 0.75 drawn is a 0.3 dose. I'm a little nervous about it even being possible for us to measure such a small dose when I'm away but I'll talk to DH if he thinks he could possibly do so. With her kidney disease it would be great to be able to keep her under the renal threshold as much as possible and Lantus seems to be the most likely to get a cat into remission :)
 
My bad. No coffee yet this morning. I registered the 0.3u and wasn’t thinking about the U40 syringe dose. Sorry.

In that case, I would start her at 0.75u of Lantus, which, as you point out to my uncaffeinated brain :p, is 0.3u Vetsulin if you were using a U40 syringe.

Fifty lashes for me and I’m glad Sienne was better caffeinated. The calipers still might help and I would still recommend watching her closely the first few cycles.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
My bad. No coffee yet this morning. I registered the 0.3u and wasn’t thinking about the U40 syringe dose. Sorry.

In that case, I would start her at 0.75u of Lantus, which, as you point out to my uncaffeinated brain :p, is 0.3u Vetsulin if you were using a U40 syringe.

Fifty lashes for me and I’m glad Sienne was better caffeinated. The calipers still might help and I would still recommend watching her closely the first few cycles.
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Wouldn't that be 2.5 times her current dose? Her current dose is 0.3 units of Vetsulin so wouldn't the starting dose of Lantus be 0.3 units?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something.. I've spent all day refinishing floors and I think it may have been a bit to much fumes.. I should have bought the higher quality face mask. :nailbiting:
 
Kitty Anderson said:
Wouldn't that be 2.5 times her current dose? Her current dose is 0.3 units of Vetsulin so wouldn't the starting dose of Lantus be 0.3 units?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding something.. I've spent all day refinishing floors and I think it may have been a bit to much fumes.. I should have bought the higher quality face mask. :nailbiting:
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You are correct. Gosh, I don’t know where my head is today but obviously not here. My original thinking was correct that it’s amount of insulin required, not the type of syringe you are using, that you equate. If she needs 0.3u Vetsulin, she needs 0.3u Lantus. When I read Sienne’s post, I thought she was suggesting 0.75u Lantus so thought I was incorrect.

But, now reading back, I wonder if she mistook that you were giving more Vetsulin than 0.3u.

Ok...so the correct answer is amount of insulin you are giving now is what you give in Lantus. It doesn’t matter what syringe you are using for the Vetsulin. Starting dose is 0.3u Lantus.

Thanks for your patience.
 
Marje and Gracie said:
You are correct. Gosh, I don’t know where my head is today but obviously not here. My original thinking was correct that it’s amount of insulin required, not the type of syringe you are using, that you equate. If she needs 0.3u Vetsulin, she needs 0.3u Lantus. When I read Sienne’s post, I thought she was suggesting 0.75u Lantus so thought I was incorrect.

But, now reading back, I wonder if she mistook that you were giving more Vetsulin than 0.3u.

Ok...so the correct answer is amount of insulin you are giving now is what you give in Lantus. It doesn’t matter what syringe you are using for the Vetsulin. Starting dose is 0.3u Lantus.

Thanks for your patience.
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Thank you!! And my post may have been confusing. Just DH needs to do the doses in the U100 format but I write both in the chart so trying to explain why there's two doses in the chart. :bighug:
 
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