Trouble finding skin - longhaired kitty

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Panic

Panic

Member Since 2019
Hello all, kitty was just diagnosed a couple weeks ago and yesterday was my first day giving shots. My cat is not overweight (in fact she's currently only 5 lbs) and she has a lot of long fluffy beautiful inconvenient hair. She lost a lot of muscle tone and is obviously underweight, coupled with the fact that she has hair everywhere, I'm having a hard time finding the skin, let alone enough that I can pull and make a tent. I'm already nervous about getting her injections right, but it's doubly hard with all that hair in the way. Does anyone have any tricks at least to help me better find spots in her long hair?
 
That is what I did with my cat, you can carefully trim a tiny 1x1 or so spot where you want to give shots. Not all the way to skin so as not to irritate skin, but just shorter hair to be better able to seen skin area. I did in an area then the longer fur in front of the area covers it so the kitty didn’t look like she had a bald spot. Try to find a spot that will work first so as to not have to do this more than once.

Your vet may be willing to shave a small patch if you don’t have clippers. Mine would do that for free.



You can also push back fur a little in opposite direction to see where skin is without cutting, I do that now since I am more accustomed to shooting, I now go right through the fur since I got the hang of it.
 
Thank you both, that is a great idea I hadn't considered! That would make it easier re-finding good areas as well.

Is it safe to also pull the fur up a bit to reveal the skin and shoot there, even if you're not necessarily making a tent? If that makes sense? Her skin is very easy to see once I locate it lol.
 
That makes perfect sense. We all have our little tricks and in the end as long as you don't poke someone's eye out you're making progress.
I had the same issue, two long hairs who got thinner as they got older. Both got tented flank shots, the scruff just didn't work.
N2C, No two cats are the same.

injsitesforcats1 (2).jpg
 
That's very comforting to know haha, thank you. This chart is perfect, thank you for posting it! I'll print that out and use it as a reference as well. I'm really hoping once she gets a couple more pounds on her it'll get easier.
 
Bingo said:
Thank you both, that is a great idea I hadn't considered! That would make it easier re-finding good areas as well.

Is it safe to also pull the fur up a bit to reveal the skin and shoot there, even if you're not necessarily making a tent? If that makes sense? Her skin is very easy to see once I locate it lol.
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Yes, that is what I do now, kind of pet hair in the spot in opposite direction to show skin. You really need a tent of sorts, the needle needs to go into the empty space just below the skin (subcutaneous) kind of pulling skin away from cats body, can’t inject into anything hard like the cats body or muscle.

I found it helps to grab a larger area with hand and may have better luck with “tent” does not have to be a big tent, just enough to get a little skin away from the cat.

You want to inject kind of horizontal to the cats body so as not to stick the cats muscle, you are only trying to go through the skin part that is tented up.

You can probably find videos on how to do it properly.

Are you home testing? What insulin and dose are you starting with? With a 5 lb cat, that is a tiny cat, good to monitor at home.

If you would like to get assistance here with other things ranging from home testing, monitoring blood sugar, etc. we are happy to help, just let us know.

I was posting same pic but someone beat me to it, I had to go check my cats blood sugar, lol
 

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That makes sense, thank you. I really don't want to assume how to do anything but all the videos I've watched so far seem to showcase cats with ample loose skin to work with.

I'm not home testing yet but I would like to, any suggestions on what kind I should purchase?
She is starting at 1 unit twice daily, though she should be closer to 7-8 lbs once her weight goes back to normal.

Thank you for all the help and assistance, I'm already learning a lot just browsing through the forums. <3
 
Bingo said:
That makes sense, thank you. I really don't want to assume how to do anything but all the videos I've watched so far seem to showcase cats with ample loose skin to work with.

I'm not home testing yet but I would like to, any suggestions on what kind I should purchase?
She is starting at 1 unit twice daily, though she should be closer to 7-8 lbs once her weight goes back to normal.

Thank you for all the help and assistance, I'm already learning a lot just browsing through the forums. <3
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A lot or people here use a Relion prime meter, it is for humans, but the tracking methods they use here account for that, so easy to figure. That meter and strips are affordable.

They have a pet meter the Alphatrack, which is what I bought before I knew you could use a human one. The strips are very expensive.

What kind of food is she currently on? A 5 lb cat depending on how high current sugar is and what kind of food, may want to start on a slightly lower dose. Also may depend on the insulin.

Tagging @Idjit's mom another member if any advice to add.
 
Thank you so much, I will look into both of those!

Prior to diagnosis she was on 9 Lives Dry with the occasional Special Kitty wet, but the vet put her on Purina DM dry (or wet but they recommended dry). I started another thread about this actually because I was concerned about her needing to be on wet food more like Fancy Feast classic, if that is a healthier option for her I'd rather switch to that. Honestly in past few weeks though her meal brands have been all over the place because I didn't know what was wrong when she started turning up her nose to 9 Lives dry and so I started feeding her more Special Kitty wet and Friskies dry, then after diagnosis but before the vet's Purina DM order came in I put her on Fancy Feast classic after I read up on it. Atm though its 100% Purina DM dry.

The insulin she is on is NPH.
 
What I made sound so easy will come to you with time. Standing over my cat with a dagger was the hardest thing to learn but once Bingo trusts you it won't seem so hard. Eventually I could do all this in dim light with a screaming migraine. It's cliché to say it's more art than science so we'll say it's trust, practice and having faith in yourself.
 
Bingo said:
Thank you so much, I will look into both of those!

Prior to diagnosis she was on 9 Lives Dry with the occasional Special Kitty wet, but the vet put her on Purina DM dry (or wet but they recommended dry). I started another thread about this actually because I was concerned about her needing to be on wet food more like Fancy Feast classic, if that is a healthier option for her I'd rather switch to that. Honestly in past few weeks though her meal brands have been all over the place because I didn't know what was wrong when she started turning up her nose to 9 Lives dry and so I started feeding her more Special Kitty wet and Friskies dry, then after diagnosis but before the vet's Purina DM order came in I put her on Fancy Feast classic after I read up on it. Atm though its 100% Purina DM dry.

The insulin she is on is NPH.
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Unfortunately the DM dry is considered much too high carb for diabetic cats at 18%, it is lower than regular dry at the pet store, but still too high to help a diabetic cat. Also dry is not the best for their kidneys.

The DM original wet is 6% carb and is within our guidelines for low carb diabetic food. The DM selects wet is higher at 10% and that is higher than we recommend for diabetic diet.

As a comparison the Fancy Feast classic pates come in at 3% carbs. Make sure it is the classic pate and not other varieties which are higher carb.

Also very important is not to switch to low carb completely unless you are doing before starting insulin. The switch to low carb alone can easily drop glucose 100 points or more over a few days and if the insulin dose is too high, can put kitty in danger. You could switch to low carb wet and hold off on insulin for a week. You will likely need a lower dose at that point. That way you don’t have the double drop from insulin and the food switch. My concern is 5 lbs is a tiny cat also.

If you are going to start insulin, then food switch needs to be done gradually and BG monitored closely, And likely just start at a lower dose as the food switch will level out with the insulin dose. There is advice here on how to transition to low carb while already on insulin.
 
Greetings, Bingo (is this kitty's name?) and pet parent. It's all a whirl at the beginning after the diabetes diagnosis. And, sometimes you just don't know which way to jump. But, you have come to the right place to learn about feline diabetes and effective treatment.

I have a long haired kitty too, and I agree, it's not always easy to find skin under all that luxuriant fur! I hope the previous responses help.

There are three main components of effective diabetic treatment, just like with humans: proper diet, insulin therapy and blood sugar testing. A human does not inject insulin without testing, and tests at different times to see how the insulin is affecting him/her.

I do hope you will consider home testing, it's the best way to keep your cat safe because you test before injecting, so you know the blood sugar is high enough to "shoot". Then you test when you can during the time between shots, so you can see how the insulin is affecting the cat, and how low the blood sugar (BG for blood glucose) level goes. If you are testing you will be able to see if that BG is too low, is a possible hypoglycemic event, and you can take action to bring the BG up.

We have links available to help you learn to home test, information about a proper low carb diet (which you are already exploring) and information on the type of insulin you are using, the NPH.

Julie told you about the Walmart ReliOn Prime meter and strips. That system works very well for many of our members, plus the strips are readily accessible. We went through a lot of strips learning to test, and we were using the pet meter and very expensive strips! You will need 26 or 28 gauge lancets, because getting that little blood sample isn't always easy at first.

Transitioning from the dry food to a low carb wet food is going to lower those BG numbers. You want to be testing first, however, so that you can see the change. The low carb food can significantly lower the BG and transitioning gradually is the best way to go. You don't want to abruptly change to wet low carb food and have the BG drop suddenly sending kitty into a hypo.

Please review the information about Novolin (NPH) insulin HERE : The Beginner's Guide to N/NPH, so you know what you are dealing with better. Novolin is a fast acting "in & out" type of insulin, and there are others that are smoother acting and longer lasting that you may want to consider down the road.

Let us know how you want to proceed and what you want to learn about next, ok? I don't want to overwhelm you with information, but we do want to help you along the way.

Best wishes going forward.
 
Julie: That is what my concern is, I guess I'm concerned with exactly how to proceed now. She started gradually having Purina DM dry added to her Fancy Feast on the 1st, by the 8th she was 100% on it (this was also her first glucose curve) and on the 15th she will be having another curve. They only tried her on a half unit and it barely dropped her glucose levels so they sent me home to do it at 1 unit twice daily. The last thing I was to do is screw with her numbers, so I'm hesitant to act now.

Idjit's mom: Hello! I changed my username to Panic (kitty's name) since it seems like that's what everyone uses around here ^-^ . I definitely am interested in home testing, just trying not to overwhelm myself with so many new things at once haha. Is this something you would be actually doing every day, or more of a monthly check-up? The part about abruptly changing to low carb is what I'm concerned about right now, she has only been 100% on DM dry for two days, a week before that it was a combination of DM and Fancy Feast, and before that was her regular food. Not the best idea obviously but I guess I'm learning as I go. As stated in my response to Julie above, she will be having another curve on Monday and I'm really not sure what I should be doing for her as I don't want to throw everything off, but then again we are JUST starting the insulin. I also obviously don't want to keep my vet out of the loop for what I'm doing either. Not really sure what my next course of action should be. :/
 
Of course you are learning as you go. Not a problem. Actually, I would say that the combination of the dry and wet that you were feeding before was better than straight dry. Dry is very high in carbs, carbs = sugar in the body. So, if you were diabetic and ate a couple of sugar donuts, your BG would rise, probably pretty high. Then you shoot insulin, in larger and larger doses, to bring the BG down. More donuts, more insulin.
Some canned food is very high in carbs, that's why we initially recommend the FF or Friskies pates. There are other brands out there that are good and low carb.
Unfortunately some vets are just not as educated or up to date about feline diabetes treatment. There are members here who have cared for their diabetic cats for years, and the information here has been painstakingly accumulated and assembled from studies of FD plus the experiences and practices of the members over the years. We are always looking, studying, researching and questioning.
Testing at home helped me avoid a hypo event for Idjit. My vet didn't recommend testing before shooting, or more often than a couple of times a week midday.
We recommend testing before every injection, then during the time between shots, at least one, but more if possible.

It's a process of practice and patience, and you don't need anybody's permission or approval to do it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
It doesn't have to break the bank for supplies, and it's sure a whole lot less expensive than an ER visit for Panic if he is critically hypoglycemic.
 
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A superb source for information about feline nutrition, both general and specific (like the above mentioned chart), is Dr Lisa Pierson's catinfo.org site. She has a lot of material about how to feed diabetic cats. She talks about transitioning to a low-carb wet diet. She explains why she does not recommend the "prescription" foods.

Wiser heads than mine should suggest what would be your best immediate course of action. Based on what you say here and in your other post, I would hazard that your vet is too pessimistic about how much you may be able to help your kitty. And perhaps behind the times on the best choices for insulin and for diet when treating a diabetic cat.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Of course you are learning as you go. Not a problem. Actually, I would say that the combination of the dry and wet that you were feeding before was better than straight dry. Dry is very high in carbs, carbs = sugar in the body. So, if you were diabetic and ate a couple of sugar donuts, your BG would rise, probably pretty high. Then you shoot insulin, in larger and larger doses, to bring the BG down. More donuts, more insulin.
Some canned food is very high in carbs, that's why we initially recommend the FF or Friskies pates. There are other brands out there that are good and low carb.
Unfortunately some vets are just not as educated or up to date about feline diabetes treatment. There are members here who have cared for their diabetic cats for years, and the information here has been painstakingly accumulated and assembled from studies of FD plus the experiences and practices of the members over the years. We are always looking, studying, researching and questioning.
Testing at home helped me avoid a hypo event for Idjit. My vet didn't recommend testing before shooting, or more often than a couple of times a week midday.
We recommend testing before every injection, then during the time between shots, at least one, but more if possible.

It's a process of practice and patience, and you don't need anybody's permission or approval to do it.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/scaring-away-newbies.212219/
It doesn't have to break the bank for supplies, and it's sure a whole lot less expensive than an ER visit for Panic if he is critically hypoglycemic.
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@Idjit's mom not sure that last link was what you wanted?
 
Panic said:
Julie: That is what my concern is, I guess I'm concerned with exactly how to proceed now. She started gradually having Purina DM dry added to her Fancy Feast on the 1st, by the 8th she was 100% on it (this was also her first glucose curve) and on the 15th she will be having another curve. They only tried her on a half unit and it barely dropped her glucose levels so they sent me home to do it at 1 unit twice daily. The last thing I was to do is screw with her numbers, so I'm hesitant to act now.

Idjit's mom: Hello! I changed my username to Panic (kitty's name) since it seems like that's what everyone uses around here ^-^ . I definitely am interested in home testing, just trying not to overwhelm myself with so many new things at once haha. Is this something you would be actually doing every day, or more of a monthly check-up? The part about abruptly changing to low carb is what I'm concerned about right now, she has only been 100% on DM dry for two days, a week before that it was a combination of DM and Fancy Feast, and before that was her regular food. Not the best idea obviously but I guess I'm learning as I go. As stated in my response to Julie above, she will be having another curve on Monday and I'm really not sure what I should be doing for her as I don't want to throw everything off, but then again we are JUST starting the insulin. I also obviously don't want to keep my vet out of the loop for what I'm doing either. Not really sure what my next course of action should be. :/
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The other thing worth mentioning is curves at a vets office are not reliable. The reason being blood sugar is often much higher at vets due to stress, so the cat is stressed all day and you have data that is very likely too high.

Here is what I would do if it were me. Cancel Monday curve and tell the vet you would like to start home testing to ensure your cat is safe. Once you learn to test at home and once cat is used to testing you can do your own curve at home, cat won’t be as stressed and numbers likely are much more accurate (the vet can’t argue with that other than to say they adjust the numbers for stress, but how accurate is that really?) You are also switching to low carb and that will very likely lower sugar right there. Some cats don’t even need insulin after food is switched to low carb, all depends on levels prior to food switch and individual cat. Say you would like to hold off insulin for a week until food is transitioned and you learn to test at home. Then you can get a more reliable base line for glucose and start on an appropriate dose. If vet want to stay on insulin I would very strongly suggest lowering dose until you have food transitioned.
 
Thank you for all the information, @Idjit's mom! I am going through and reading all the links you provided! <3

@Julie and Honey So you personally would stop the insulin now and get back on it once she's transitioned to the wet food? (say a week) While I do plan on home testing, I might end up more comfortable at first letting my vet test her, especially if we stop and restart on insulin. My vet's office is closed today so (if everyone thinks it's a good idea) I may give her her insulin tonight and tomorrow morning, then pop into the vet's office to chat when they open?

I do feel my vet is a bit pessimistic as well, but in fairness I guess I would be too if I only ever knew of one cat going into remission after so many years in the practice. Her glucose levels were over 600 too when she was first diagnosed so I imagine she's less likely than lower-leveled cats. Time will tell either way!
 
Please wait for someone more experienced to weigh in on stopping insulin at this point. I personally do not feel experienced or knowledgeable enough to advise something like that. We don't know what the diagnosing BG was or even are now. I know you have only given shots for one day, but lets wait for a bit and see what others advise. Ok, I see the BG was 600. I am tagging others to look in
@Chris & China (GA) @Kris & Teasel
 
Thank you, I am not comfortable stopping insulin without my vet's approval anyway. The last thing I want to do is complicate things.
 
Panic said:
Thank you, I am not comfortable stopping insulin without my vet's approval anyway. The last thing I want to do is complicate things.
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Sure, you are in new territory here and you are just finding your way. I remember that so well! It's all a bit much and confusing at first, so much to learn and do. You are doing the best you can right in the moment. Keep learning, asking questions and you will be able to help Panic feel better, get him regulated and even have hope of remission.
 
Panic said:
Thank you, I am not comfortable stopping insulin without my vet's approval anyway. The last thing I want to do is complicate things.
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I agree with @Idjit's mom, you really need some data from readings to know where to go with dosing in conjunction with the low carb switch.

I was only saying if it was me and I had just started insulin very recently, I would wait until switching food and testing at home and would not put much stock in curves done at the vets due to stress. I probably should have stressed that is just me and probably not all peoples opinion.
 
Of course! <3 I am at least going to speak to the vet tomorrow and ask about switching over to wet food (even if it is Purina DM wet, it seems to be acceptable as well?) and what the safest course of action is.
 
Hi @Panic
You are doing a great job educating yourself about FD and looking after your kitty. It is a steep learning curve in the beginning.
I’m not sure what insulin you are using but I think I saw something about Novolin. Is that what you are using?
Switching to another insulin like Lantus or Prozinc would be better for kitty but you need to do one thing at a time when changing things.... this is something for you to look into going forward.
I would NOT stop the insulin for a week while you swap over to a low carb wet food. There is a real risk of developing ketones if you stop insulin in a diabetic cat. I would not change any food at the moment until you are able to start testing the blood sugar levels. Once you are able to test you could start to transition slowly over to a low carb wet diet. We can help you with this.
If I were you I would buy a human meter for testing. They are much more economical and our protocols are based on human meter readings.
 
Hello! She is on NPH, I'm assuming that is Novolin? Still learning all the terms!
I will be looking into the human meter that Julie recommended, yes. I will stick with the dry food I have right now and speak to my vet in the morning about switching her to at least DM wet or FF, I will mention my concerns to her and let her decide what the best course of action would be. She has not been 100% on the dry but for about three days now but as you can see from posts above, her meal brands have been all over the place over the past two weeks and I definitely don't wish to mess around while she's on insulin.

It's indeed a learning curve and I get waves of being overwhelmed every day but I want to do this right for Panic. <3 Thank you all for your input btw, it means a lot!
 
Panic said:
I do feel my vet is a bit pessimistic as well, but in fairness I guess I would be too if I only ever knew of one cat going into remission after so many years in the practice. Her glucose levels were over 600 too when she was first diagnosed so I imagine she's less likely than lower-leveled cats. Time will tell either way!
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Don't let that get you down. My cat Beast was 571 when he was diagnosed. He is two days away from being in "remission". One reason he may see so few cases of remission is that he keeps prescribing high carb diets the cats. Food is a big contributor to high blood glucose levels.
 
Just to add..... some people do swap over to a low carb diet BEFORE starting insulin but you need to be testing the urine for ketones to ensure none are developing. Ketones can progress to DKA in diabetic cats and are dangerous.....
Now that you have started with the insulin, I would not stop it.
 
Panic said:
Hello all, kitty was just diagnosed a couple weeks ago and yesterday was my first day giving shots. My cat is not overweight (in fact she's currently only 5 lbs) and she has a lot of long fluffy beautiful inconvenient hair. She lost a lot of muscle tone and is obviously underweight, coupled with the fact that she has hair everywhere, I'm having a hard time finding the skin, let alone enough that I can pull and make a tent. I'm already nervous about getting her injections right, but it's doubly hard with all that hair in the way. Does anyone have any tricks at least to help me better find spots in her long hair?
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You can also try standing behind her and blowing hard at her fur in the area you want to inject. It separates the hair and exposes the skin.
 
Hi, just checking in with you. How is Panic doing? And yourself? I hope all is well and you will keep us updated.
 
@Idjit's mom Hello! Sorry about my absence - been a busy past few days. Panic is doing well (thank you for asking!), I even took her with me to my friend's house while I was dog-sitting for the night and she did just fine. I just popped by the vet today (for another pet) and mentioned I wanted to switch her over to the Purina wet, but they ended up giving me Savory Selects as they didn't have the regular kind in stock, so I am actually holding off on that until the correct kind comes in (I read the regular DM is much lower in carbs) and should be here by Monday, then I will mix it in with her dry food until she's completely on it. Panic has been very good about her shots, I just wish there was more skin to work with haha!

I'm actually trying to teach my younger brother how to give her insulin as well because this Thursday I will be leaving at 4:30pm and won't get back until 12am..her regular schedule is 9am/9pm and due to my work schedule I can't make it any earlier. I also have to be gone this coming Saturday at 9am so I'm planning on asking my vet if I can extend a half hour each shot to get to that 12am time when I return, then jump an hour early the next three shots to get back to 9am for that Saturday morning shot. I know it's not ideal but if my brother isn't comfortable enough to do it I won't have any other option >.< I'm hoping to work with him this weekend and see if I can stick to the 9-9 schedule though.
 
I'm very glad to see you back on the board. It sounds like you have been busy, and this is going to continue for a little bit. I don't have any suggestions about changing the timing of the insulin shots though, perhaps you could check in the Vetsulin/NPH forum and ask there.
Have you given any thought to home testing yet? With the Novolin being a faster acting insulin, what they call an "in & out" type of insulin, it is the best way to keep Panic safe and know how the insulin is affecting him on a real time basis.
Happy and safe journeys this coming week. Don't be a stranger, I kind of like to follow along on people that I have been talking to, and see how they are getting along.
Head and chin scritches to Panic. :cat:
 
I have been browsing that particular forum, haven't spotted anything with solid answers yet, but I will for sure ask my vet on Monday when I take Panic in for her second curve. I want to mention the catinfo.org food chart to her when I go in and explain why I'm wary about her numbers dipping but I don't want to come off as me knowing more than her or anything. She's the one with the degree after all!

Yes, I fully intend on purchasing one to test her at home, I need to research a bit more on them. I was looking at the Relion meter as previously suggested, from the looks of it I should be purchasing a meter, strips, and lancets, three different things? I think the only thing confusing me with that so far is where to do it, everyone is describing it as the edge of the ear, but the diagrams look like there's a sweet spot just in between the vein and edge of the ear, so I'm a tad confused haha. I also need to research about how to read them so I can understand the lingo. Just trying not to overwhelm myself!
 
Haha, I know it's a blur at first. You should have seen the old man and myself running around like headless chickens! A very sad parody of a Keystone Kops movie starring Laurel and Hardy! We got the wrong syringes twice looking for syringes with 1/2 units, trying to figure out how to test Idjit (without me braining the old man because the poor man couldn't read my mind) and watching Idjit like hawks. Funny now, not so funny then.

Sometimes the meters come as "kits", but there are very few strips and lancets in those kits. Many times the lancets included are too thin for testing at first. So, you would get a box of extra strips and a box of 26 or 28 gauge lancets. A lancet device is going to be a personal decision, some of us use it, some not. I do not, ours didn't work and I just grabbed the lancet and got the blood sample.

You do want to aim for that sweet spot. The ears actually have few pain receptors, but if you accidentally hit a vein, it will ouch. We all have done that, and it's not catastrophic, you just get much more blood than you need. I warm Idjit's ears with a rice sock warmed in the microwave. Some members use an old pill bottle with warm water in it. Warming brings the blood to the surface, and the more you test, more capillaries form and it gets much easier to get that blood sample.

We use a cotton ball behind the ear surface we are poking, and Idjit gets a nice treat after his tests. He sticks around and waits for it now. We also use a very light film of pain relief ointment before so the blood beads up then another smidge after the poke.

Now that we aren't testing like when he was on insulin, we are back to 'the begining" and I do "milk" the ear a little to get that blood sample. But we are not bumping into each other anymore!
 
Haha oh no! I definitely feel you, I had my first freak-out that I can laugh at now, but so scary at the moment! While I was dog-sitting at my friend's house I took Miss Panic with me and although she was rather chill, coming feeding time she decided she wasn't hungry. I jumped on the board and saw the parmesan cheese trick, thus me tearing through my friend's fridge praying she had some laying around which she did and worked like a charm. xD Funny in hindsight, not in the moment.

I ordered a Relion Prime meter, a lancet device (thought I'd have it to start), some strips, and am going to pick up some 26 gauge along with everything else after work today. I hope I didn't forget anything, now I just need to figure out the conversion before I use it. I'm reading 50-120 is the safe spot on the Relion meters? I'm not even sure what to do if it's below or above that mark. 0:

Aw no, does it hurt them a lot if you hit a vein?? I read the side of the paw pad is good too, is there a reason people prefer the ear? Or do the kitties just prefer it? And what pain relief ointment do you use for your boy? And is he not on insulin anymore if I'm reading correctly? c:
 
I can just see you rummaging through your friend's fridge! LOL You will rack up many more "funnies" as you go along.
I am not sure what you mean by conversion. The 50-120 is the range of non-diabetic cat, lower than 100 is what I look for.
If you are using a human meter, 50 is the "take action" number.
Read through the following links, you may never need to use this info, or your tool box, but better safe than sorry.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/how-to-treat-hypos-they-can-kill-print-this-out.15887/

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/jojo-and-bunnys-hypo-tool-box.2354/

It would be super helpful if you would create a signature with Panic's info, then the spreadsheet so we can see the insulin and testing data. The experienced members in the Vetsulin/NPH (Novolin) forum would be your best guides to dosing, depending on the testing data. If you need me to provide that information on how to again, let me know.

I am not a huge fan of Novolin, just from reading many posts about how hard that insulin hits, but then doesn't last very long. I have read that it is not really a very suitable insulin for cats. There are several other much more suitable ones such as Lantus and Prozinc. It is the least expensive insulin though and it's better than nothing.

I don't think it hurts a lot when you hit a vein, you get a lot of blood though and that can be a bit messy. Just tested Idjit this morning, and I think I nicked it cause I got a lot. He didn't flinch though and I used the cotton ball to staunch the blood. No, he isn't on insulin anymore, he went OTJ almost a year ago. We changed his diet, used Lantus insulin and he was off the juice in a month. Most don't use the paw pad unless they have to, they walk through all kinds of stuff, including the litter box and the paw pad is much tougher and more sensitive.
 
Thanks xD My kitty is SUCH a patient girl and hasn't fussed one bit since starting insulin so I want to keep her as happy with me as possible LOL.

Honestly I really appreciate everyone who's commented so far and helped me out. It's like having experts on speed dial xDD
 
See that's what I thought too, I was under the impression that 70-130 is "normal" for cats, but the only conversion threads I found were talking about 50-120 on the human meter being normal so...?
Thank you for the links, I will check them out soon! I'm sneaking on the forum at work right now haha.

I am not against switching insulin perhaps later on, since I'm having so many upfront costs already so maybe when things have smoothed out a bit I can do more research on the other types of insulin and speak with my vet about them. In fact when I first took Panic to her curve last week and the vet was giving me her prescription, she said she originally was going to give me another kind (?) but after speaking to another diabetic patient's mom she heard NPH was cheaper so she recommended that (she knows I have other vet-needy babies and my pocket is smaller than most) so I'm sure she was trying to help out, which I appreciate lol.

I did make a signature right before you posted that, hope that'll help in the future!

Congrats about Idjit! That must be feel great :D
 
Would you please edit the signature to show the insulin dosage and how often you shoot, 2x a day?

Here are the spreadsheet instructions and how to understand the grid:
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/understanding-the-spreadsheet-grid.156606/

It does feel great about the remission. Not at all what we expected to happen, but very happy it did. We were very fortunate.

I absolutely understand the start up costs with the diagnosis. I was in shock, but discovered later that we shouldn't have paid $30 for syringes, or purchased the recommended "prescription" food. However, the members on the board can offer many suggestions of how to save $$. For example, Lantus can be purchased through Marks Marine Pharmacy in Canada for less money, and if you buy the pens instead of the vials, you can use every drop instead of possibly having to discard part of a vial because it loses effectiveness after about 6 months. We also have a Supply Closet with some very dependable people that offer Lantus and other insulins when available.
You will save $$ by doing your own curves at home, instead of racking up vet bills. You can provide the vet with a copy of your spreadsheet so they can see what's going on too.
 
Added. :)

Thank you for the spreadsheet, I'll try to add her curve levels tomorrow when she goes to the vet to get this started.

Here is the thread I was referring to about the 50-120 being "normal" bit...I may be misunderstanding. Basically I'm just trying to figure out what human meter numbers are safe and not safe for kitties. Like if my human meter reads say, 70, I'd like to know if that's good or bad cat-wise. And for everyone's spreadsheets that use human meters, are they listing "cat meter" numbers or "human meter" numbers?

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/human-glucose-meter-conversion.184773/

That's amazing though, good for you and Idjit! That's great to know too about the Lantus! I had something similar (already) with my syringes, I purchased the right kind BUT they didn't have half units on them, so my vet just took the box I got and gave them to a doggy client, then gave me a new proper box. I think I paid like...$12 for my syringes? I don't know if that's average or not.
 
The spreadsheets of members who use the human meters are entering the number that they get on the meter with each test. There really isn't any conversion.
Here is an excerpt I copied off some time ago about this issue:

Human meters do read lower than pet meters, and BG range in the dosing protocols are adjusted accordingly. For example, a normal range on a human meter is 50-120, while on a pet meter it is 68-150. You cannot compare numbers from a human to a pet meter because you're using a different point of reference for them. It's more important that a meter be consistent, (we are generally looking for trends in data to adjust the dose, not single, exact numbers). There is also a +/- 20% variable allowed in any glucose meter, including pet meters.
You can’t translate numbers from a human meter to what they would be on a pet meter. Then are no studies which provide a correlation between the two. However, it’s equally important to note that 50 on a human meter does not equal 68 on a pet meter. Those are the numbers which have been determined to provide a safety net.

So, it's not really a concern of trying to convert readings. It's testing regularly with a reliable meter, before every injection and during the cycle between shots as you can, to see trends and patterns of your cat's BG levels. Getting as much data as possible is going to tell you the story of how long the dose lasts, whether it's too much or too little, as well as alert you to how low the dose is taking the BG, so that if you need to, you can intervene.

So, don't get bogged down with unknowable details. I know that you want to get as educated as you can, but there is just no way to convert those numbers. It's a rabbit hole, IMO, and there are other ways to spend what time you have to devote to other subjects.

You can refer to the Beginner's Guide to NPH for testing feeding shooting information. I would not advise you at all there, not being very familiar with using that insulin. I know there is so much buzzing around in your brain right now, but perhaps reading through that guide as many times as it takes, is going to help clear some of the confusion. I read through the Lantus information over and over, and gradually it began to actually sink in as I calmed and my brain came back online. :)
 
Gotcha, I was just starting to read the Beginner's Guide to NPH and that helped sort some things out almost immediately. This will be my new guide book I guess haha! I'm definitely going to take a step back today though because yeah, I'm getting my brain bogged down with information again. >.<

Oh, that's incredibly helpful, thank you for pointing this out! I'm going to give myself a break from reading for the day and hopefully update tomorrow evening/the day after Panic's curve at the vet. Hoping she does very well again and her numbers are better. :)
 
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