Help! Rasmus has lost weight, I'm panicking

[Kris & Rasmus]

Hi!

I don't think Rasmus's dose is working and he's lost a bit of weight, but he's so skinny already. Is the low dose causing him to lose weight quickly? If I give him more calories, does it work, or not really?

Do I up his dose?

Please help, I'm having a right panic here. I cannot cope with him starving Infront of my eyes.

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

Hi

I have no experience with Prozinc, his numbers, I think suggest that he may need a dose adjustment, but for dosing advice I suggest you post in the Prozinc forum.

Regarding his appetite, is normal for an unregulated cat to be very hungry and still not gain weight or even lose some (once regulated they do regain some weight), so in his case being underweight If it were me would let him eat all he wants and as many times as he wants that my help him at least with not losing any more weight, and giving him several meals during the day may also help with his excess stomach acid which I think he's suffering from since you mentioned that you found vile in the morning.

If this gastric acid is something that is happening often I do suggest you talk to your vet about giving him some antiacid it can be some natural option like SEB(slippery elm barck) or omeprazole (if is not a very constant issue) or cernia

 

[jayla-n-Drevon]

Many of us give ondansetron and a appetite stim

I personally take the premptive strike with my boys as they are seniors. I give ondansetron and cipro 2 x a day.

 

[Kris & Rasmus]

Hi

I have no experience with Prozinc, his numbers, I think suggest that he may need a dose adjustment, but for dosing advice I suggest you post in the Prozinc forum.

Regarding his appetite, is normal for an unregulated cat to be very hungry and still not gain weight or even lose some (once regulated they do regain some weight), so in his case being underweight If it were me would let him eat all he wants and as many times as he wants that my help him at least with not losing any more weight, and giving him several meals during the day may also help with his excess stomach acid which I think he's suffering from since you mentioned that you found vile in the morning.

Thanks, Veronica! I will increase his dose and feed him more. He's a fickle cat, and won't eat if he doesn't like the food for whatever reason. Even if he is starving. I tried putting him on a different brand of food a few days back, and in the beginning was quite successful. As the days have gone past, he's started to turn his nose up at it. I guess at the end of the day, I need to feed him whatever he will actually eat, even if it isn't the ideal food. It's still LC wet food in the end.

 

[MindyC]

Vomiting and nausea can be caused by differences in food carb content. My Max had that issue the first time he was dx'd (9 years ago), while I was still learning about carb contents and what flavors he could/would eat. If the carb content was very different, like 3% at one meal and 10% at another, he'd get pukey. We settled into 4-5 flavors all within 1-2% of each other and the puking went away. Also, at this point, Max is pukey about every 2-3 days, but he also has been diagnosed with chronic kidney failure, which for him presents with a lot of the same symptoms as diabetes--excessive thirst/drinking, puking (usually watery, rarely food or bile), weight loss, generally looking like he feels cruddy. So...might be worth a conversation and/or trip to the vet if he continues with vomiting and weight loss.

Are you adding water to his food? That might help, he might be dehydrated. Since we got Max back on the insulin this go round, he's started putting weight back on, though slowly. We've started feeding about 50% more food in the last few days than we were before, though.

I don't know enough about any of the insulins to give dosing advice. Max is bouncing pretty hard on his current insulin, and I plan to switch him to Novalin after we get back from vacation in a few weeks. He won't be tested while we're gone, so I can't switch him now. At the moment I'm just trying to "feed the curve" and try to make it not so high of a drop. I have a timed feeder, so he's getting food 3 hours after a shot now, but we only started that about a day or so ago. If Rasmus is an indoor/outdoor kitty, a timed feeder may not work for you, but maybe trying to feed a few hours into the cycle will help?

 

[Kris & Rasmus]

Vomiting and nausea can be caused by differences in food carb content. My Max had that issue the first time he was dx'd (9 years ago), while I was still learning about carb contents and what flavors he could/would eat. If the carb content was very different, like 3% at one meal and 10% at another, he'd get pukey. We settled into 4-5 flavors all within 1-2% of each other and the puking went away. Also, at this point, Max is pukey about every 2-3 days, but he also has been diagnosed with chronic kidney failure, which for him presents with a lot of the same symptoms as diabetes--excessive thirst/drinking, puking (usually watery, rarely food or bile), weight loss, generally looking like he feels cruddy. So...might be worth a conversation and/or trip to the vet if he continues with vomiting and weight loss.

Are you adding water to his food? That might help, he might be dehydrated. Since we got Max back on the insulin this go round, he's started putting weight back on, though slowly. We've started feeding about 50% more food in the last few days than we were before, though.

I don't know enough about any of the insulins to give dosing advice. Max is bouncing pretty hard on his current insulin, and I plan to switch him to Novalin after we get back from vacation in a few weeks. He won't be tested while we're gone, so I can't switch him now. At the moment I'm just trying to "feed the curve" and try to make it not so high of a drop. I have a timed feeder, so he's getting food 3 hours after a shot now, but we only started that about a day or so ago. If Rasmus is an indoor/outdoor kitty, a timed feeder may not work for you, but maybe trying to feed a few hours into the cycle will help?

Good points, I'll check out the carb content. I've only found bile twice and I think it's more to do with not feeding him enough.

I upped his dose this morning, and fed him AMPS and at +4. He'll get another small meal at +8 too before his evening meal. He seems happier. I'll set up the automatic feeder for evening feeds too. I will also make sure the food is wet enough so he gets more fluids. I hadn't thought of that.

Before he was diagnosed, I asked them to run all the tests they normally do on "senior" cats, so kidneys were checked. No issues with those (as far as I know) but we'll make sure he gets tested regularly. Thank you!

 

[MindyC]

Good points, I'll check out the carb content. I've only found bile twice and I think it's more to do with not feeding him enough.

I upped his dose this morning, and fed him AMPS and at +4. He'll get another small meal at +8 too before his evening meal. He seems happier. I'll set up the automatic feeder for evening feeds too. I will also make sure the food is wet enough so he gets more fluids. I hadn't thought of that.

Before he was diagnosed, I asked them to run all the tests they normally do on "senior" cats, so kidneys were checked. No issues with those (as far as I know) but we'll make sure he gets tested regularly. Thank you!

Good to know they check his kidney numbers and that is not it. Definitely do add water to the food, cats just don't drink enough on their own. Our cat food ends up looking a bit soupy...we probably add 1/4 cup of water to 1/2 - 3/4 of a can of Friskies. It looks totally gross, but they seem to like it. ;-) Sounds like you're on a good path for feeding too--hunger can definitely make them nauseous.

 

[Elizabeth and Bertie]

I don't think Rasmus's dose is working and he's lost a bit of weight, but he's so skinny already. Is the low dose causing him to lose weight quickly? If I give him more calories, does it work, or not really?

It 'may' be that insufficient insulin and/or insufficient food are causing him to lose weight. (This assumes that he doesn't also have kidney disease or hyperthyroid, which can also cause weight loss).
The Sainsbury's 'delicious' might be too low in calories for him if that is all he's eating.
There are lots of low carb foods in the UK. And hopefully there will be a food - or combination of foods - that suit Rasmus.

Incidentally, my old diabetic boy is 20 now, and it can be a struggle to keep weight on him. I get food into him at any possible opportunity! But I've found that including a high calorie (and higher fat) food in his diet helps a lot. At the moment I'm giving him some 'Little Big Paw' a couple of times a day in addition to any other food that he eats. It's a dense pate, but easily chopped up into pick-up-able pieces, and seems very palatable. He also gets a liquid cat food every few days called 'Liquivite', which I leave in a bowl next to his water fountain. It adds to his food intake, and also helps to keep him hydrated.

Are you weighing Rasmus at home? If not then I highly recommend getting a 'baby scale' so that you can keep a close eye on his weight. I got one recently for Bertie, and wished I'd done it ages ago. This one looks identical to the one I got recently for Bertie, and it works really well. https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUkANING-E...hing/dp/B079Z64854/?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20

Remember too, Kris, that it is still very 'early days' in Rasmus's diabetes journey. It can take a little while to see results. Do be patient. And be kind to yourself. You're doing a good job. Rasmus is lucky to have you in his corner.

Eliz

 

[Kris & Rasmus]

It 'may' be that insufficient insulin and/or insufficient food are causing him to lose weight. (This assumes that he doesn't also have kidney disease or hyperthyroid, which can also cause weight loss).
The Sainsbury's 'delicious' might be too low in calories for him if that is all he's eating.
There are lots of low carb foods in the UK. And hopefully there will be a food - or combination of foods - that suit Rasmus.

Incidentally, my old diabetic boy is 20 now, and it can be a struggle to keep weight on him. I get food into him at any possible opportunity! But I've found that including a high calorie (and higher fat) food in his diet helps a lot. At the moment I'm giving him some 'Little Big Paw' a couple of times a day in addition to any other food that he eats. It's a dense pate, but easily chopped up into pick-up-able pieces, and seems very palatable. He also gets a liquid cat food every few days called 'Liquivite', which I leave in a bowl next to his water fountain. It adds to his food intake, and also helps to keep him hydrated.

Are you weighing Rasmus at home? If not then I highly recommend getting a 'baby scale' so that you can keep a close eye on his weight. I got one recently for Bertie, and wished I'd done it ages ago. This one looks identical to the one I got recently for Bertie, and it works really well. https://www.amazon.co.uk/OUkANING-Electronic-Digital-Backlit-Weighing/dp/B079Z64854/ref=sr_1_7?s=kitchen&ie=UTF8&qid=1553088424&sr=1-7&keywords=baby scale

Remember too, Kris, that it is still very 'early days' in Rasmus's diabetes journey. It can take a little while to see results. Do be patient. And be kind to yourself. You're doing a good job. Rasmus is lucky to have you in his corner.

Eliz

Hey Eliz,

Yes, I had him tested for kidney disease and hyperthyroidism as part of the vet's test for "senior" cats when he went in for this annual boosters as I was concerned about weight loss. This is when they found he had DM. So first thing I did: I bought a baby scale and his weight has been pretty stable, up until a couple of days ago. Since then, he's lost weight. Agree, I think it's down to the Sainsbury's pouches not being calorific enough but he's gone off them anyway now. He was quite keen in the beginning, but now he doesn't want to eat them. Ditched one flavour at a time - salmon, mackerel, sardine... He now only eats some of the chicken and the tuna...I've gone back to Felix AGAIL (since yesterday PM when he was refusing to eat and I was sat coaxing and crying on the floor. Again.) It may have some impact on his BG but I have got to get the cat eating and gaining weight. He's really fickle when it comes to food. Will not touch anything in pate form, or ground. Maybe I can start introducing some in a bit. Just want to get him more stable and not starve to death in front of my eyes. I'm still grieving from having to put down our other cat (my beloved Max) last June (hyperthyroidism, 17 years old, very poorly cat in the end despite meds) and I wouldn't let him die alone so I held him in my arms until he slipped away. I'm still traumatised and now Rasmus has diabetes. I cannot go through a similar experience again, and I will do anything, ANYTHING to try to help him. He's getting more food now (mayhe Felix does a kitten food???), and also he's getting more food at +4 and +8. If he could have it his way, he'd pretty much eat all the time. I'm happy to feed even more spread out, but I also upped his dose today so am trying to curve him. Well. With the added small meals, there are definitely food bumps so I don't actually know how low he would go at nadir now. I don't know how "well" the insulin is working. I feel so incredibly lost and useless. And I'm loving the virtual hugs. I definitely need them right now. xxx

 

[MindyC]

Hey Eliz,

Yes, I had him tested for kidney disease and hyperthyroidism as part of the vet's test for "senior" cats when he went in for this annual boosters as I was concerned about weight loss. This is when they found he had DM. So first thing I did: I bought a baby scale and his weight has been pretty stable, up until a couple of days ago. Since then, he's lost weight. Agree, I think it's down to the Sainsbury's pouches not being calorific enough but he's gone off them anyway now. He was quite keen in the beginning, but now he doesn't want to eat them. Ditched one flavour at a time - salmon, mackerel, sardine... He now only eats some of the chicken and the tuna...I've gone back to Felix AGAIL (since yesterday PM when he was refusing to eat and I was sat coaxing and crying on the floor. Again.) It may have some impact on his BG but I have got to get the cat eating and gaining weight. He's really fickle when it comes to food. Will not touch anything in pate form, or ground. Maybe I can start introducing some in a bit. Just want to get him more stable and not starve to death in front of my eyes. I'm still grieving from having to put down our other cat (my beloved Max) last June (hyperthyroidism, 17 years old, very poorly cat in the end despite meds) and I wouldn't let him die alone so I held him in my arms until he slipped away. I'm still traumatised and now Rasmus has diabetes. I cannot go through a similar experience again, and I will do anything, ANYTHING to try to help him. He's getting more food now (mayhe Felix does a kitten food???), and also he's getting more food at +4 and +8. If he could have it his way, he'd pretty much eat all the time. I'm happy to feed even more spread out, but I also upped his dose today so am trying to curve him. Well. With the added small meals, there are definitely food bumps so I don't actually know how low he would go at nadir now. I don't know how "well" the insulin is working. I feel so incredibly lost and useless. And I'm loving the virtual hugs. I definitely need them right now. xxx

Definitely go easy on yourself, you're a great pet-parent! I mean, you're HERE, after all, so you're doing your best (which really is all we can do). Figuring out what is going on with them is always a challenge. And I'll send you some hugs too--I had a kitty that died from fatty liver disease, way back in my early days of pet-companionship, and it made Max's first diagnosis very hard to take. I understand the fear and the loss, though I'll tell you it does get easier with time. Insulin can take some time to settle into a kitty, and sometimes the kitty needs a different insulin altogether, though I'm not sure I know how or when a human knows to go about trying that change. Likewise, I don't know what is easily available by you. I mis-spoke in my previous post--I plan to switch Max OFF of Novalin and onto Lantus after we get back from vacation. I know that one worked well for him before, though it is quite a bit more expensive. There were a variety of factors at the time of his diagnosis that pushed us to Novalin, but it just doesn't seem to be working in the best fashion for him.

 

[Veronica & Babu-chiri]

You are a great parent, you are here learning about diabetes, you even got a baby scale to monitor him, getting diabetes regulated takes time so be patient.

Him getting several meals along the day will help him avoid the stomach acid and also is better for helping have his blood glucose a bit more stable since you avoid big peaks due to food, just make sure he gets enough food after his insulin shot since you are using Prozinc and that is a fairly fast acting insulin for what I know

 

[Kris & Rasmus]

Definitely go easy on yourself, you're a great pet-parent! I mean, you're HERE, after all, so you're doing your best (which really is all we can do). Figuring out what is going on with them is always a challenge. And I'll send you some hugs too.

Thank you! I know I'm not feeling anything that others aren't feeling, so this group is great for both information and moral support. I shall work on my patience and remember the mantra: "marathon, not a sprint". We will get there eventually.

 

[Kris & Rasmus]

You are a great parent, you are here learning about diabetes, you even got a baby scale to monitor him, getting diabetes regulated takes time so be patient.

Him getting several meals along the day will help him avoid the stomach acid and also is better for helping have his blood glucose a bit more stable since you avoid big peaks due to food, just make sure he gets enough food after his insulin shot since you are using Prozinc and that is a fairly fast acting insulin for what I know

Thank you so much! I shall work on my patience