Bear 3-5/PMPS 388/+3.25 151/Bear is bad & teetering on a tightrope. +5 66!/58BG

Bron and Sheba said:
Have you tried honey or is Bear vomiting it?
Is he still vomiting or has that stopped?
Looking at the SS you tested for ketones about 12 hours ago ...is that correct?
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Bear's last vomit was at 1:20AM his +3.25
Yes ketone Neg yesterday mid afternoon.
He doesn't like honey or karo, I have to syringe it to him. So no I haven't done honey,
 
Bear & Lora said:
Bear's last vomit was at 1:20AM his +3.25
Yes ketone Neg yesterday mid afternoon.
He doesn't like honey or karo, I have to syringe it to him. So no I haven't done honey,
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Have you ever tried just rubbing honey on his gums?
See what the next test is. We don't want him to vomit.
When did he last have cerenia or ondansetron?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Can you have a look at this when you have time and see if it is correct. If you can remember can you put in what food you gave and when please? Thanks :bighug:

PMPS 388
+3.25 152
+? 58
+? 68
+6 75
+6.5 61
+7 55
+7.5 69
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+5.25 66 Licked 17% wet & licked ice cream, refused both
+5.75 58 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6 69 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6.5 61 Tblsp 16.6 kibble
+7 58 1/2 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+7.5 69 No food
 
Cerenia and ondansetron at +11.5 just before PMPS
PMPS 388
+3.25 152
+5.25 66 Licked 17% wet & licked ice cream, refused both
+5.75 58 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6 69 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6.5 61 Tblsp 16.6 kibble
+7 58 1/2 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+7.5 69 No food
+8 66 Did 5units of honey.
 
Lora, Hows it going? you are managing this really well.... it is really scary when you have low numbers and kitty wont eat:bighug: especially in the middle of the night!
If you need to feed Bear again and he wont eat, you can repeat the ondansetron after 8 hours.
 
Cerenia and ondansetron at +11.5 just before PMPS
PMPS 388
+3.25 152
+5.25 66 Licked 17% wet & licked ice cream, refused both
+5.75 58 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6 69 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6.5 61 Tblsp 16.6 kibble
+7 58 1/2 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+7.5 69 No food
+8 66 Did 5units of honey.
+8.5 85
 
Hi Lora, ugh, it is very scary when they are in a P'titis flare and don't want to eat. With the DKA in the mix, it is important for him to get insulin so that conditions for the perfect DKA storm doesn't form.

You are doing a great job and glad he is up in numbers now. The honey will wear off quickly so more testing will be necessary.

Do you have any more baby food? That might be good to have on hand as you can add some water and make it really soupy in case you need to assist feed with a syringe. If he will eat it on his own, I would add some water or tuna juice ( if he likes that) to entice him to eat.

Can he have another dose of cerenia yet?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Lora I meant to ask you earlier but we got caught up.....wont he eat high carb wet, or don't you have any?
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He use to but not in his current condition.
At AMPS yesterday he kept 1.5oz of 5% down.
By AM +5.75 he refused all wet food. I had about 5 bowls out with all flavors, so I tried Meat Baby Food 1.2 oz and he ate it and kept it on board.
At PMPS I coaxed 0.4 5% wet.
Then later about 0.3oz 5% wet.
Most all of that food was vomited up.
Then PM +4 he refused all wet, so I gave him babyfood which he again kept on board.
 
Thanks Bobbie:bighug:
If you are able to stay I will head off to bed. I have an early start in the morning.
Lora has had a very stressful night poor girl but has managed really well.
I think Bear is probably nauseated again as he almost vomited at +8.5 Lora said.
I think he could have ondansetron now but not sure about the cerenia.
Thanks Bobbie:)
Lora I hope things improve quickly. Bobbie is going to keep an eye on you now.:bighug:
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Cerenia and ondansetron at +11.5 just before PMPS
PMPS 388
+3.25 152
+5.25 66 Licked 17% wet & licked ice cream, refused both
+5.75 58 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6 69 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+6.5 61 Tblsp 16.6 kibble
+7 58 1/2 Tblsp 16.6% kibble
+7.5 69 No food
+8 66 Did 5units of honey.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recap Bron. Just going to read through the thread, I'll be around, we have got storms coming in, hopefully I won't go offline, but it's not unusual for us to get lightening strikes on our ariel.

You're doing a good job Lora, website went down for me for the last 20min.
 
Lora, here is a list of things to try when kitty goes off their feed and to help stimulate the appy. I want to add that if he is eating baby food for you, then I would keep offering that .


Sometimes in order to get a cat to eat you even have to resort to dry it is more important that they eat. there are a couple low carb / grain free brands -- EVO and wellness core. I have added Young Again Zero carb.

-making a buffet to give him choices
- heating food

sprinkle food with :
- forta flora -- a probiotic you can get at vets or online. is very smelly and cats love the taste of it.
- parm. cheese
- smashed crumbles of dry food
- bonito tuna flakes
- halo chicken treats -- crumble into dust over food -- my Wolfie loves this stuff.
- poor a little water from tuna in water over food ( I use low sodium/no sodium added as other kinds in water has veg. broth in it and I assume that means onions, which are toxic to cats-- check labels)
-powdered oregano. yep sounds weird . but some cats like it and it will entice them to eat.

other ideas of foods to offer your kitty to stim appy:
- trader joe tuna for cats
-baby food -- beechnut turkey and broth or chicken and broth. they have no onions or other additives. some babyfoods have onions . please read labels if you can't find beechnut.
- kentucky fried chicken
- deli turkey /chicken
- plain cooked ( boiled or baked ) chicken breast
-canned chicken for people (watch the label that their are no onions)
- chicken broth -- low sodium

If enticements don't work, you should consider:
-assist feeding ( syringe or make little meatballs and place in mouth)
-and/or talking to your vet about appetite stimulents ( mirtazapine or cyproheptidine)

and if those fail talking to your vet about feeding tubes
- Here is Dr. Lisa's link on feeding tubes :
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=feedingtubes
 
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Bear has always had a pretty hearty appetite even though he grazes he eats his food within 30 minutes.
Other than when he had DKA and no appy, Bear has some absolutes that have been a fact #1 he loves his chicken treats he would eat half a dog size bag if we let him. #2 He thinks gravy wet cat food is his best friend. #3 If he had a choice he would eat dry kibble like it's manna from heaven.
So I know he feels like total dog dew if he turns his nose up to those foods.
He doesn't like cheese at all.
His favorite meat is ham which he never gets now, except the ham baby food as of late.
I am rambling now from sleep deprivation, sorry.
 
I think I am going to lay my head down for about an hour.
If Bear is low at preshot I will do a no shot.
if he has risen to blue or above I definitely won't give him 4units.
I think the Vet at the ER Saturday that told me to reduce his insulin by half wasn't as unreasonable as I thought.
I will have to think about it....... 2units possibly?
 
Bear & Lora said:
Sarah how long did it take Max to get to the point he wasn't vomiting?
How much Cerenia dosing was he receiving?
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The Cerenia worked for Max very well. I've been giving him 4mg every 24 hours and there's no vomiting at all while he's on it. The tricky part is getting them to keep that first dose down long enough for it to take effect. If Bear can't do that he may need a Cerenia shot that he can't throw up.
 
Gill & George said:
To add to Bobbie's list, I found that spoon feeding helped.
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If Max isn't feeling like eating when I need him to (which doesn't happen very often thankfully) I've found that spoon feeding works sometimes. Also, put a bit of the food on their nose or rub some of the sauce part on their lips. Sometimes just a taste is enough to entice them to take a few more bites.
 
Also I've found Max really likes the classic broths from either Fancy Feast or Rachael Ray. I have no idea what the carb content is as I can't find it on any of the food lists but I don't think it's a "gravy" so I'm thinking it's not too high. I hope it isnt. It seems just like some broth, chicken and veggies to me. If I can't get him to eat anything else, he'll at least lap up that broth.
 
Just got back from on the water and catching up. What a night. :bighug:

Weruva Grandma’s Chicken Soup, lots of gravy and carbs from potatoes not wheat. I am think it’s 21% carbs. Another low carb option I have seen but is new so not used is Tikicat Velvet Mousse. Seems to be a hit for some kitties when nothing else appeals.

As for dose, not sure 4 units is too much. First, the depot may have been running the show last night, and not what size it thinks it is with the skips in there. Second, I have observed a number of times that the second shot after a skip or furshot often seems to be an active one. So you could have had some of that in there too. One more thing to keep in mind, is that kitties undergoing anesthesia who are not supposed to eat, still safely get a half dose of insulin. Insulin is used in the body for more than just countering carbs from food. Other factors in the decision are recent DKA and your need for sleep. Is DH able to help out at all today?
 
In case anyone is curious, here's the back of a RR broth packet.
 

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Wendy&Neko said:
Is DH able to help out at all today?
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No help today and extra on the plate, 3 health care personnel two nurses and P/T starting in about 30 minutes. :(
I did get about an hour nap, so somewhat replenished.

I know Bear's SS is a bit strange, two shots ago but I stalled three hours and gave him a reduced dose.
Bear's AMPS today was 10AM which is still off from his stalled shot 2cycles ago. His BG was 189 I gave him 2u's.
I'm not sure it is enough insulin but I can always raise his dose later.
The one thing that has stayed true on Bear's SS is that he will always bounce after reaching green, then maybe I can catch some real sleep.

I am waiting on a call back from the Vet's office to get some Sub-Q fluids which will help Bear's kidney flush at least some ketones if he produces them.
I just got another test in and he was ketone negative.
 
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I'm glad you got a nap in and hope Bear accommodates you with a bounce (seems strange to be hoping for one?!?:rolleyes:) so you can hopefully get a little down time to recharge your batteries between all your other responsibilities. :bighug::bighug:
 
Remember you can give him ondansetron a lot more often than cerenia. Are you giving him 4 mg bid as prescribed? If not, I’d increase to that dose or you can also give 2 mg every 6-8 hours always 30-45 mins before you feed. That’s a large dose but it’s what your vet prescribed. Usually they give 4 mg tabs but she prescribed 8 mg tabs at dosing of 1/2 tab (4 mg) bid.

Two additional things that might help him are subq fluids at home and some buprenorphine for pain. Cats can hide pain well but pancreatitis is typically painful and a low dose of bupe twice a day might help him. If you have never given subq fluids at home, if your vet will prescribe it, here’s a video to help you.

On the labs, nothing stands out. Elevated cholesterol is not uncommon in FDs. Globulin and MPV elevations are usually insignificant but associated with inflammation, including...you guessed it....pancreatitis.

I hope he is able to keep food down today and you get some rest. Unfortunately, it can take some cats a couple weeks to get through a bout of pancreatitis.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Just got back from on the water and catching up. What a night. :bighug:

Weruva Grandma’s Chicken Soup, lots of gravy and carbs from potatoes not wheat. I am think it’s 21% carbs. Another low carb option I have seen but is new so not used is Tikicat Velvet Mousse. Seems to be a hit for some kitties when nothing else appeals.

As for dose, not sure 4 units is too much. First, the depot may have been running the show last night, and not what size it thinks it is with the skips in there. Second, I have observed a number of times that the second shot after a skip or furshot often seems to be an active one. So you could have had some of that in there too. One more thing to keep in mind, is that kitties undergoing anesthesia who are not supposed to eat, still safely get a half dose of insulin. Insulin is used in the body for more than just countering carbs from food. Other factors in the decision are recent DKA and your need for sleep. Is DH able to help out at all today?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the confusion of Bear's SS.
I straightened out the mess and made it accurate.
Thank you for the food info. I am going to go kitty shopping at the pet stores this weekend and will give those a try.
:bighug::bighug:
 
I was thinking the same thing but my mind really doesn't want to think that way since I have had 2 hours sleep for almost two days now but it is what it will be.
 
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