Motley

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Larissa and Motley

Larissa and Motley

Member Since 2019
Rather than posting a ton of things on Motley, I'm just going to keep it to this post =).

We took Motley to get his bg checked. The vet said it was unreadable by his machine there at the office and increased him up another unit taking him from 1 to 2 units. He's also lost another pound weighing in at 5.6lbs.

The vet is also pushing Hill's still. And said home testing isn't all that necessary I'm still going to do it however...

Any suggestions on increasing the dose?
 
First of all - what are you feeding him? First thing I would suggest is that without changing his insulin dose, you switch him to a low-carb wet food diet. If he has been eating dry food, or a high-carb wet food, just the diet change by itself can make a big difference. You don't want to lower insulin and change to a low-carb diet simultaneously, though, because that could possibly send his blood glucose dangerously low.

Home testing is the best way to make sure he remains safe! Get yourself a human glucometer (I use ReliOn Prime from WalMart, as the strips are the least expensive), and test away. Try to get a curve at his current dose - test just before the shot, then every 2 hours for the next 12 hours.

You'll want to set up a spreadsheet to record these values as soon as possible - here is a link to the instructions: http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Then you can create a signature, which includes basic information about Motley, along with a link to your spreadsheet. This is so that members who respond to your questions can see the whole picture in order to give appropriate advice. I can't tell you whether you should or shouldn't increase Motley's dose, but if you collect data to see exactly what is happening with him, then it will be possible to help you make decisions regarding whether his dose should remain the same, or whether it needs to be changed.

What kind of insulin is he getting? Depending on the type, dosing decisions may be different. Lantus is the preferred choice for most cats; based on testimony of cat owners, it tends to give better results.

I'm sorry if you were looking for a simple answer and are feeling like we're just dumping tons of instructions at you, but diabetes can be tricky, every cat responds differently, and the best way to get help from the extremely knowledgeable and experienced members here is to provide as much data as possible.

Good luck with Motley - with proper diet, home BG monitoring, and appropriate insulin dosing, he can get back to good health quickly!
 
I finally got his meter and did his first test. at 11:32. (I gave him his insulin at 7) He tested at 289. I started his sheet So we're getting there. I feel like 289 is still high. I got the Relion Prime. I'll have to do his curve tomorrow since I got it so late today.

Upside, he took the ear poke okay, even purred a bit.
 
289@+4 1/2 yours after insulin is not that bad when beginning treatment. That time period after insulin is about the lowest with the N insulin you are using.
Next get a BG before shot as well as about 5 hours after shot.
 
So what do you do when you can't get blood for the reading? I poked motley 4 times(twice in each ear) and couldn't get his ears to bleed enough. He started getting antsy so I had to let him go and just give him his insulin. And paw testing might be out of the question, he gets um...bitey if I touch his paws.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
So what do you do when you can't get blood for the reading? I poked motley 4 times(twice in each ear) and couldn't get his ears to bleed enough. He started getting antsy so I had to let him go and just give him his insulin. And paw testing might be out of the question, he gets um...bitey if I touch his paws.
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First - three tries then treat and quit for a bit. No sense in upsetting both of you!

Now blood - first, cold ears don't bleed. I use a rice sock - thin cotton sock, about 1/4 c uncooked rice in toe and knot. Heat in microwave just long enough to heat it up. My old low watt takes 20 secs but my older, higher wattage one was 10. You just want it warm. Hold it on the ear for 15-20 seconds.

Second - it does take a couple of weeks of testing for ears to 'learn to bleed' which technically means growing new capillaries to that area. Every test helps grow those as they are the 'healers' of the body's 'wounds'.

See if either of these help...
 
Larissa and Motley said:
I finally got his meter and did his first test. at 11:32. (I gave him his insulin at 7) He tested at 289. I started his sheet So we're getting there. I feel like 289 is still high. I got the Relion Prime. I'll have to do his curve tomorrow since I got it so late today.

Upside, he took the ear poke okay, even purred a bit.
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Congrats on your first test!
 
I recommend using a 28g lancet at first too until you get better and he grows more capillaries.
 
We got 26g I didn't see 28 when we got them. He REALLY doesn't like being tested. He knows what the lancets look like now. Thank goodness he doesn't have claws otherwise I'd be bloody heh heh.

JanetNJ said:
BTW love the name motley. I had a cat named Nikki after Nikki Sixx. :)
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I named him after Motley Crue! Funny thing is it was almost his sister's name and she stayed outside. My mom was like "you should name him that!" (I was calling him Gizmo because he had HUGE ears as a baby.) Nikki Sixx is pretty amazing.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
We got 26g I didn't see 28 when we got them. He REALLY doesn't like being tested. He knows what the lancets look like now. Thank goodness he doesn't have claws otherwise I'd be bloody heh heh.



I named him after Motley Crue! Funny thing is it was almost his sister's name and she stayed outside. My mom was like "you should name him that!" (I was calling him Gizmo because he had HUGE ears as a baby.) Nikki Sixx is pretty amazing.
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I have Alice for Alice Cooper, Lita (Ford), CC (Daville), and had Nikki, Zimmy (Zim Zum from Marilyn Manson), and Taime (Taime Downe from Faster Pussycat, a cat who we had gotten from Sebastian Bach of Skid Row).
 
JanetNJ said:
I have Alice for Alice Cooper, Lita (Ford), CC (Daville), and had Nikki, Zimmy (Zim Zum from Marilyn Manson), and Taime (Taime Downe from Faster Pussycat, a cat who we had gotten from Sebastian Bach of Skid Row).
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<3 Those names are amazing! I have Sabastian(Siamese, he was named after a character in a book) Paradox, Pie, Emily(Corpse Bride) and Felicity(Husband's cat) all of which would be terrible patients.


What kind of treats would be best? At the moment I have Tuna flavored greenies. Which when I opened my draw to check he perked up for xD.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
<3 Those names are amazing! I have Sabastian(Siamese, he was named after a character in a book) Paradox, Pie, Emily(Corpse Bride) and Felicity(Husband's cat) all of which would be terrible patients.


What kind of treats would be best? At the moment I have Tuna flavored greenies. Which when I opened my draw to check he perked up for xD.
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Don't give greenies... High carb. CC'S fave snakes are Pure Bites which is just freeze dried chicken. I get the dog size bags. You can give any kind of meat and catnip
 
I've been trying all day to test his bg but he's gotten to where he reacts violently when he realizes what I'm about to do. Treats don't seem to help. I've only been able to get one reading and that was yesterday
 
Larissa and Motley said:
I've been trying all day to test his bg but he's gotten to where he reacts violently when he realizes what I'm about to do. Treats don't seem to help. I've only been able to get one reading and that was yesterday
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Ok stop testing for a few days and just work on desensitizing him to having his ears touched. Then move to having his ears touched with the equipment out.... Work up to it
 
I stopped testing him for about two weeks. Last night I was finally able to test a few minutes (Like 5 mins) AFTER his shot and his bg was around 498. Sadly he wouldn't let me test again later. He's still very under weight. I'm guessing because he's underweight his bg is going to be hard to manage. Any tips? I feed him FancyFeast, but he never seems to fill up.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
I stopped testing him for about two weeks. Last night I was finally able to test a few minutes (Like 5 mins) AFTER his shot and his bg was around 498. Sadly he wouldn't let me test again later. He's still very under weight. I'm guessing because he's underweight his bg is going to be hard to manage. Any tips? I feed him FancyFeast, but he never seems to fill up.
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He's thin because diabetic cats often do not utilize the nutrients properly. Feed him as much as he wants, just no food 2 hours prior to the preshot test. His bg is not off because he's thin, he's thin because his bg is off.

Please start a spreadsheet with any of the readings you managed to get.
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/fdmb-spreadsheet-instructions.130337/

Novolin is a short acting insulin, he may be better off with ProZinc or lantus.
 
I have one started it's just not very full. He still fights me despite following suggestions here -_-. I just keep forgetting to put it in my signature. As I said it's still pretty bare.
 
Here is a link to a thread you may find helpful. Post #3 is by another member whose cat was also difficult if not impossible to test initially and how she managed to systematically get Sam to co-operate. There is also some info on testing urine for glucose that is better than nothing until you can make some headway with Motley.

On the weight and food front, diabetics cannot process and use the food they eat efficiently which leads to constant hunger and weight loss. Feed Motley multiple small meals during the day to help keep him a more satisfied and don't be afraid to feed him more than his usual portion. He needs more calories right now to maintain his weight much less gain back the weight he has lost.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
I have one started it's just not very full. He still fights me despite following suggestions here -_-. I just keep forgetting to put it in my signature. As I said it's still pretty bare.
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I understand.... I often say I am lucky that it's my cc that's diabetic and not one of my former strays. Just do the best you can. That's all any of us can do.
 
M'row lost 1/4 of his body weight before he got diagnosed, and had previously when he was healthy had always been pretty slim. So I just leave his ff classic out all the time, and he's gaining weight.
 
Well I managed to get a check again around when I gave his shot. But the second time I tried, the meter wouldn't read it. He wouldn't let me take the time to change the strip. And I keep going through his ear on accident -_- I did it twice tonight. I think he feels it and it hurts. I tested my other cat Paradox and she didn't freak out as bad. (Just wanted to check her because she USED to be overweight. Thankfully she's fine). I have been giving him treats so work in progress still.
 
Larissa and Motley said:
Well I managed to get a check again around when I gave his shot. But the second time I tried, the meter wouldn't read it. He wouldn't let me take the time to change the strip. And I keep going through his ear on accident -_- I did it twice tonight. I think he feels it and it hurts. I tested my other cat Paradox and she didn't freak out as bad. (Just wanted to check her because she USED to be overweight. Thankfully she's fine). I have been giving him treats so work in progress still.
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It's OK to go through just avoid the vein.
 
The vet took Motley's dose of insulin up to 3 Friday. He was fine Saturday thru Monday,but now he just stares at the food or completely ignores it.Wet food dry food it doesn't seem to interest him,and now he just kind of wanders off to lay down.I know when cats do that kind of thing it's usually because they aren't feeling well or potentially they have given up.His weight continues to drop and at this point I can essentially feel every bone under his skin just petting him.I'm posting on behalf of my wife because the situation is hitting her very hard and were concerned he might need to be put down soon just to save him from the suffering of shriveling away.Is there any thing someone can suggest to maybe get him interested in food.he can't even jump on the bed anymore,and can barely stand up and we really don't want to put him down but this cat is so important to my wife and he's only six.
 
It may be that the 3u of Novolin is too much for Motley but if Motley is not eating, and with the difficulties you've had trying to test him, I would definitely get him to the vet to check for ketones ASAP. Ketones can arise suddenly and overwhelm the system leading to DKA which is extremely serious and potentially fatal. The sooner you catch it, the easier and more successful treatment is.

Without any BG test results to look at, all we can do is speculate. 3 units of Novolin for a cat diagnosed the end of February is a lot. Too much insulin can look just like too little and this causes the vet to increase when they should be reducing the dose. Also most kitties experience an elevated BG at the vet's so the data the vet collects and makes a decision with, is often not accurate. When kitty gets home their BG comes back down to normal and the increased dose can potentially take BG too low or at the very least, send the cat into a roller coaster of high and low BG making them feel horrible.

In the meantime, you could try some meat only baby food (make sure there is no onion or garlic in it), sprinkle parmesan or oregano on Motley's food, poached or baked unseasoned chicken breast, luncheon meats, tuna, salmon.....anything that Motley usually likes. KFC with the skin removed is known to be another favourite with many cats. You need to make sure he is eating particularly if you have given him insulin. Don't be afraid to feed Motley whatever will entice him and he definitely can eat more than twice a day. Diabetics cannot process the food they eat properly so they lose weight. He definitely needs more calories right now than he used to.

I know you are having problems testing Motley but that is by far the best tool we have to keep our furry friends safe and get them back to health so please keep trying. Most cats come around in time as long as we go about it with a "can do" attitude.
 
The vet wants to keep him for three days and do more blood work. He was constipated and dehydrated. With super high bg. Despite him having his shot at 7. He was pretty out of it by the time we got him to the vet. I've been crying off and all morning because I'm super worried.
 
I'm glad you took him to the vet. Now try to relax because he's where he will get the help and support he needs right now. Please keep us posted. Sending :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug: for you and healing wishes and scritches for Motley when you see him. You may want to take a worn tshirt or such to put into the cage with Motley to give him some scent of home and help soothe him if the vet will let you.:)
 
He's home, still seems like he's not feeling very well. He's still very wobbly. And doesn't want to go into the litter box to pee. I think he's still stressed from being away from home too. We've had a rough start with his treatment. I hope he gets better.
 
I got him after the vets all went home. He was constipated and dehydrated (Probably because he likes to knock his water over). It makes me want to talk to the people where I go to school to see if I can bring him on campus until I be sure he's going to be okay alone. Because he could have died on me Tuesday.
 
Larissa, we all hope that Motley is going to feel better very soon. It's been a rough start but that doesn't mean it will continue. Is there any chance that a different insulin could be considered, prescribed and used? Something like one of the longer lasting insulins like Lantus or Levemir? :bighug::bighug:
 
Just make sure he's eating and always has water available (maybe a larger but shallower dish that can't be tipped over so easily...or an extra bowl). I'd check with the vet tomorrow to see what they checked and if there is any special care they suggest now that he is home. I'm a bit surprised to hear no one offered any info when you picked him up.
 
Idjit's mom said:
Larissa, we all hope that Motley is going to feel better very soon. It's been a rough start but that doesn't mean it will continue. Is there any chance that a different insulin could be considered, prescribed and used? Something like one of the longer lasting insulins like Lantus or Levemir? :bighug::bighug:
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The vet did mention she might switch him to vetolin because it's meant more for animals than people.

MrWorfMen's Mom said:
Just make sure he's eating and always has water available (maybe a larger but shallower dish that can't be tipped over so easily...or an extra bowl). I'd check with the vet tomorrow to see what they checked and if there is any special care they suggest now that he is home. I'm a bit surprised to hear no one offered any info when you picked him up.
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I found a large dog bowl that I switched too.

Also can I give him pedyalite? My sister-in-law suggested trying that to help with how weak he is.
 
Plain pedialyte is fine....with no sugar/flavouring. You might also try some plain meat baby food (no onions or garlic) and if need be, add water to it to make a soupy mixture Motley can lap up if he won't eat his regular cat food. You can always put water in his regular food to make it easier to lap up too.

I think the vet was suggesting switching to Vetsulin, a veterinary insulin. While it may be a better choice for Motley than the Novolin, it still has some properties (quick action and sometimes dramatic swings in BG) which can leave kitty feeling off. Another veterinary insulin like ProZinc or a human insulin like Lantus or Levemir would provide a much gentler response and might help Motley feel better. Lantus and Levemir can be obtained from Canada (Marks Marine) for considerably less than they cost in the US.
 
He's back in the vet's. They're changing him to Vetsulin because the novolin seems to be what's causing him to have so much trouble. He was dehydrated again. The vet said because it is a faster acting insulin it might be causing to big of a swing in his BG (And I'm guessing making it jump super high according to the readings I had on the print out yesterday, like 689 and 679). But it never went lower than 289. So I really hope this works. I'm having a tough time affording the care he needs.
 
Larissa, I'm so sorry to hear Motley is back at the vet's. Have they checked him for ketones? Please make sure they do so given how dehydrated he is and how high his BG is running. A longer acting insulin like ProZinc, Lantus or Levemir would be better choices than Vetsulin which will still cause dramatic BG swings in most cats. How about asking your vet about those options?
 
He's back and doing much better. He's back to talking to me. The vet switched his insulin to Vetsulin starting out on 2U on the 40 needles(Probably wrong but I'm still new at this).
 
So happy to hear Motley is home and more like his usual self. That's always a good sign. Keep working on home testing and whenever possible get a test before giving him insulin to ensure it is safe to do so. Mid cycle tests are important too because they tell you how well the insulin is working for Motley.
HERE is some information on Vetsulin that you will find helpful. Keep us posted and let us know how we can help you. If you can get testing more consistently, it would be a good idea to set up a spreadsheet to keep track of Motley's readings. We are very data driven here and will rely on BG testing results to offer dosing recommendations if you choose to take more control of Motley's diabetes yourself.
P.S. Your info is spot on. Vetsulin is U40 insulin and therefore needs different needles than the Novolin. :)
 
I was able to test before his shot tonight. He fights less if I go from the inside of the ear, oddly enough. The vet said Novolin doesn't work very well on cats, but is fine on dogs. He admitted had he read the chart closer he'd have switched him before sending him home the first time. "It works great for about the first month on cats then kind of stops" he said, so he switched and now he's doing better, not drinking nearly as much water as he had been. But he's still super skinny.
 
I try to, but he fights me pretty hard when I try to test. It's still a work in progress to get him to let me poke him. I stop when he starts fighting to the point he might hurt himself I can usually only get one test a day, sadly.
 
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