URGENT help needed, fearing hypoglicemia

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Diana&Tom said:
Just popping in briefly and pleased to see you two doing well! All those treats are doing their job! Just shows how much they can affect bg - if they can counteract insulin given on such a low amps, they are definitely only to be used for such purposes and not too much at other times when the goal is to keep bg down!
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Thank you for checking on us Diana :bighug: Those treats are from before diagnostic and he sometimes gets one after testing, but not all the time. Still trying to find some low carb treats that he will have :bookworm: .

@Bron and Sheba @Diana&Tom Thank you both for your kind words and trust, however, I failed miserably at taking a +4.5. He's been good, not happy about it and trying to hide his ears from me slightly :( but there was nothing coming out, even after "squeezing". I will give him a rest and just do a +5, which is soon otherwise I fear he might not be cooperating at all.
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Thank you for checking on us Diana :bighug: Those treats are from before diagnostic and he sometimes gets one after testing, but not all the time. Still trying to find some low carb treats that he will have :bookworm: .

@Bron and Sheba @Diana&Tom Thank you both for your kind words and trust, however, I failed miserably at taking a +4.5. He's been good, not happy about it and trying to hide his ears from me slightly :( but there was nothing coming out, even after "squeezing". I will give him a rest and just do a +5, which is soon otherwise I fear he might not be cooperating at all.
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Ok. Go for the +5
Have you tried warming the ear with some rice in a sock warmed in the microwave for just a few seconds. Test before use and hold on the ear for a minute to warm it.
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
We struggled but managed a +5 and it’s 8.3
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Well done!!
That is a good result!
So no more feeding but I think you need to get a +6 to make sure he is rising on his own and it is still not the HC food talking.
Are you happy to do that?
Give Perlutz a big cuddle from me and tell him I think he has been super today!
And give yourself a pat on the back too! You did very well in a stressful situation. Don't be too hard on your bf.....
Can you have a look at what I have written below ........is that a true account of the food given?

Ok so this is what has happened up until now. Using alphatrack meter.
+12 preshot 5.2 (94) 1.5 units Caninsulin given
+1 8.1 (146) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+2 8.2. (148) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+3 6.5. (117) given 1 teaspoon H.C
+3.5 5.8. (104) given 1 teaspoon HC and small drop honey
+4 6.4. (115) not fed
+ 5 8.3 not fed
Getting a +6 to see that Perlutz is on the rise on his own and it is not the food which is still influencing the numbers.
 
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Georgiana I am going to ask @Bobbie And Bubba if she can check in an hour to see what the +6 is. It is getting pretty late here in Aus. It has been lovely getting to know you today........I hope you manage to get the insulin changed over soon
Have you thought of getting an auto feeder for Perlutz so you can leave food out for him which opens at set times? Do you think he would use it? All the best with Perlutz...he is a gorgeous boy.
Bron
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Well done!!
That is a good result!
So no more feeding but I think you need to get a +6 to make sure he is rising on his own and it is still not the HC food talking.
Are you happy to do that?
Give Perlutz a big cuddle from me and tell him I think he has been super today!
And give yourself a pat on the back too! You did very well in a stressful situation. Don't be too hard on your bf.....
Can you have a look at what I have written below ........is that a true account of the food given?

Ok so this is what has happened up until now. Using alphatrack meter.
+12 preshot 5.5 (99) 1.5 units Caninsulin given
+1 8.1 (146) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+2 8.2. (148) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+3 6.5. (117) given 1 teaspoon H.C
+3.5 5.8. (104) given 1 teaspoon HC and small drop honey
+4 6.4. (115) not fed
+ 5 8.3 not fed
Getting a +6 to see that Perlutz is on the rise on his own and it is not the food which is still influencing the numbers.
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I'm relieved to see 8.3 and I will definitely do a +6 as well. I will test as long as I have to, I need to know we're out of the woods. Perlutz has been a super brave lil boy today! His daddy will have a lot of making up to do!

+12 preshot 5.5 (99) 1.5 units Caninsulin given
panicked and fed 5-10 high carb treats
+1 8.1 (146) given 1 teaspoon high carb
it was more than a teaspoon, I'd say at least a tablespoon
+2 8.2. (148) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+3 6.5. (117) given 1 teaspoon H.C
+3.5 5.8. (104) given 1 teaspoon HC and small drop honey
+4 6.4. (115) not fed
+ 5 8.3 not fed
he got 1 treat after each testing plus 2 treats while trying for a +4.5
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Georgiana I am going to ask @Bobbie And Bubba if she can check in an hour to see what the +6 is. It is getting pretty late here in Aus. It has been lovely getting to know you today........I hope you manage to get the insulin changed over soon
Have you thought of getting an auto feeder for Perlutz so you can leave food out for him which opens at set times? Do you think he would use it? All the best with Perlutz...he is a gorgeous boy.
Bron
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Thank you SO MUCH for everything Bron!

We do have an automatic feeder but he's never really been eating out of it while we're out at work. I don't think it's because he doesn't like it, it seems he just can't be arsed to :D prefers to sleep all day. I do come home at 13:00 on my lunch break to give him a bit of food on most days. I have some questions about feeding him as well, food, time etc but I'll create a new thread for that. I did ask the vet, but got the standard RC or Hills recommendations :banghead: from 3 vets!

Good night! :bighug:
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
I'm relieved to see 8.3 and I will definitely do a +6 as well. I will test as long as I have to, I need to know we're out of the woods. Perlutz has been a super brave lil boy today! His daddy will have a lot of making up to do!

+12 preshot 5.5 (99) 1.5 units Caninsulin given
panicked and fed 5-10 high carb treats
+1 8.1 (146) given 1 teaspoon high carb
it was more than a teaspoon, I'd say at least a tablespoon
+2 8.2. (148) given 1 teaspoon high carb
+3 6.5. (117) given 1 teaspoon H.C
+3.5 5.8. (104) given 1 teaspoon HC and small drop honey
+4 6.4. (115) not fed
+ 5 8.3 not fed
he got 1 treat after each testing plus 2 treats while trying for a +4.5
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Ok so if the treats were HC, the +5 was probably food influenced so definitely get a +6 and if you are at all concerned get a +7
Bobbie is very experienced and will help you.....hoping she sees the tag.
I'll call in tomorrow and tell you how to do the 1/2 hours in the SS
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Thank you SO MUCH for everything Bron!

We do have an automatic feeder but he's never really been eating out of it while we're out at work. I don't think it's because he doesn't like it, it seems he just can't be arsed to :D prefers to sleep all day. I do come home at 13:00 on my lunch break to give him a bit of food on most days. I have some questions about feeding him as well, food, time etc but I'll create a new thread for that. I did ask the vet, but got the standard RC or Hills recommendations :banghead: from 3 vets!

Good night! :bighug:
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Can you test when you come home at 1 pm? That would be a valuable test.
I'll stick around until someone can take over. We always try and get someone to take over
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Can you test when you come home at 1 pm? That would be a valuable test.
I'll stick around until someone can take over. We always try and get someone to take over
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I can do some testing at 13 ish from now on. After all the practice I got today, I shouldn't have any issues :cool: And to think I used to feel sick at the sight of blood lol

I'll do a +6 in few min!

Oh and I corrected to 5.2 in my original post.
 
Something happened to the site and it has been down for a while....
+6 10.6 (191)
I think he should be ok now.
You might like to get a test in a couple of hours to see what he is doing, but I don't think he should drop again now.
He might bounce after that low preshot this morning, so don't worry if he goes up high.
See you tomorrow. I'm off to bed!
Hope you enjoy the rest of Valentines Day :)
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Something happened to the site and it has been down for a while....
+6 10.6 (191)
I think he should be ok now.
You might like to get a test in a couple of hours to see what he is doing, but I don't think he should drop again now.
He might bounce after that low preshot this morning, so don't worry if he goes up high.
See you tomorrow. I'm off to bed!
Hope you enjoy the rest of Valentines Day :)
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I will test again in 2 hours :)

Again, thank you so much for all your help! Sorry to have kept you up so long :( Good night! :bighug:
 
Popping in again and it does look as if all will be well, although I agree with Bron, it won't hurt to carry on testing when you can just to be sure there isn't a sudden drop. I'm very glad that you were aware of the potemtial problem straightaway this morning, as if you hadn't been, we could be looking at a different scenario. And looking on the positive side, this is unlikely to happen again - or if it does, you'll have had practise dealing with it and will know exactly what to do.

Moving forward, there is definitely a case to insist on another insulin. Your poor kitty's numbers are so up and down. This may be partly due to how he responds to the insulin on any given day; any other factors such as stress, infection, etc; but also he may be producing some insulin himself - when you see an unexpectedly low number that is always a possibility (but then so is unexpected longer than usual duration from the last shot, so it's not always possible to say!)

Do keep your ss updated so we can see how the day has panned out, and of course carry on posting with any more queries/updates. Good luck!
 
Diana&Tom said:
Popping in again and it does look as if all will be well, although I agree with Bron, it won't hurt to carry on testing when you can just to be sure there isn't a sudden drop. I'm very glad that you were aware of the potemtial problem straightaway this morning, as if you hadn't been, we could be looking at a different scenario. And looking on the positive side, this is unlikely to happen again - or if it does, you'll have had practise dealing with it and will know exactly what to do.

Moving forward, there is definitely a case to insist on another insulin. Your poor kitty's numbers are so up and down. This may be partly due to how he responds to the insulin on any given day; any other factors such as stress, infection, etc; but also he may be producing some insulin himself - when you see an unexpectedly low number that is always a possibility (but then so is unexpected longer than usual duration from the last shot, so it's not always possible to say!)

Do keep your ss updated so we can see how the day has panned out, and of course carry on posting with any more queries/updates. Good luck!
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Hi Diana, so sweet of you to come and check on us, thank you!

I've just done a +6 and it came up at 15.8 so we are lucky to be out of the woods, phew! But yes, I need to practice my speech for Tuesday at the vet and be adamant on a new insulin!

Do you know of anything I can put on his years? I feel like they've been quite abused today, I had few fails with no blood coming out on top of everything :facepalm:
I've only ever seen the USA Neosporin but it's not available for us in UK :(

Hope you have a nice day! :bighug:
 
Hi Georgiana, good morning.... well morning for me!
Have just been looking at your SS.
Can you add in the remarks column that you fed high carb food for the hours that you did in the AM cycle please. It is good to have a record of what you did on that cycle for you and others to see.
To add the 1/2 hour reading you did, you go to the square it goes in and add after the hour number what it was. For example add in the +3 column .... 5.8@3.5
You will then need to go over to the US page and manually change the numbers in that square as it won’t do it itself once anything other than a number is added. Does that make sense.?
Also on the 9th Feb Perlutz dropped to 36 and that earned him a reduction which you obviously didn’t realise you needed to take. So his new dose should have been 1.25 units which you will have to eyeball on the syringe. He could well be dropping low on many of the cycles and you wouldn’t know as there are no tests.
I am going to tag @Kris & Teasel as she is experiencing in caninsulin and see what she thinks.
 
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I recommend dropping the dose to 1.25 u, especially after all the recent drama. Ideally you want a bit more of a safety cushion at nadir with Caninsulin because of its strong action. Your goal should be nadirs in the 5 to 6 mmol/L range, no lower. The inflated PSs suggest he might be dropping too low for comfort overnight or on days where you don't have test data.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Hi Georgiana, good morning.... well morning for me!
Have just been looking at your SS.
Can you add in the remarks column that you fed high carb food for the hours that you did in the AM cycle please. It is good to have a record of what you did on that cycle for you and others to see.
To add the 1/2 hour reading you did, you go to the square it goes in and add after the hour number what it was. For example add in the +3 column .... 5.8@3.5
You will then need to go over to the US page and manually change the numbers in that square as it won’t do it itself once anything other than a number is added. Does that make sense.?
Also on the 9th Feb Perlutz dropped to 36 and that earned him a reduction which you obviously didn’t realise you needed to take. So his new dose should have been 1.25 units which you will have to eyeball on the syringe. He could well be dropping low on many of the cycles and you wouldn’t know as there are no tests.
I am going to tag @Kris & Teasel as she is experiencing in caninsulin and see what she thinks.
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Hi Bron,

I've just added some more data to the SS (yesterday both Perlutz and I were so exhausted that we took a well deserved afternoon nap cuddling on the sofa).
Also added the +3.5 in both world and US tabs.

The reduction you say he earned on 9th of Feb...do you mean a reduction in the PM shoot only or all the time? Upon diagnosis, he was put on 2 units but we've decided to lower this to 1.5 on 5th Feb and his 2nd vet approved and said it's what he would've recommended too.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but again, thank you for all your help!!
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Hi Bron,

I've just added some more data to the SS (yesterday both Perlutz and I were so exhausted that we took a well deserved afternoon nap cuddling on the sofa).
Also added the +3.5 in both world and US tabs.

The reduction you say he earned on 9th of Feb...do you mean a reduction in the PM shoot only or all the time? Upon diagnosis, he was put on 2 units but we've decided to lower this to 1.5 on 5th Feb and his 2nd vet approved and said it's what he would've recommended too.

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but again, thank you for all your help!!
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Very happy to help. :)
The reduction that @Kris & Teasel and I both recommended was for you to take now and continue with the reduction until
Perlutz either earns another reduction or needs an increase.
A cat earns a reduction when they drop under 3.7 (68) when you are using the alphatrak meter. So with your next dose reduce the dose to 1.25 units.
If you keep it at the current dose you risk Perlutz having a hypo. Don’t wait to reduce, do it at the next shot.
Were you able to get home at lunch to check the bsl?
Keep asking questions.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
I recommend dropping the dose to 1.25 u, especially after all the recent drama. Ideally you want a bit more of a safety cushion at nadir with Caninsulin because of its strong action. Your goal should be nadirs in the 5 to 6 mmol/L range, no lower. The inflated PSs suggest he might be dropping too low for comfort overnight or on days where you don't have test data.
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Hi Kris,

We have a vet appointment on Tuesday and we're thinking to push for ProZinc as Caninsulin doesn't seem to help :( Do you think we should still change to 1.25 until then? If so, we'll have to really eyeball this as our syringes don't have half units marks and nowhere to buy them offline.

EDIT: @Bron and Sheba already answered this, we're going to lower to 1.25 as of today's PM shoot.
 
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Bron and Sheba said:
Very happy to help. :)
The reduction that @Kris & Teasel and I both recommended was for you to take now and continue with the reduction until
Perlutz either earns another reduction or needs an increase.
A cat earns a reduction when they drop under 3.7 (68) when you are using the alphatrak meter. So with your next dose reduce the dose to 1.25 units.
If you keep it at the current dose you risk Perlutz having a hypo. Don’t wait to reduce, do it at the next shot.
We’re you able to get home at lunch to check the bsl?
Keep asking questions.
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Noted, we'll lower to 1.25 from tonight then! You mentioned that he might earn an increase...when would that be?

It's 11:20 AM here, will do a test soon.

He's been drinking more water again since Wednesday and yesterday and today he has been just lying around the water bowl sometimes. Not drinking, but sitting next to it and it worries me. He has been so much livelier last week and this week he's like...down:(
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Noted, we'll lower to 1.25 from tonight then! You mentioned that he might earn an increase...when would that be?

It's 11:20 AM here, will do a test soon.

He's been drinking more water again since Wednesday and yesterday and today he has been just lying around the water bowl sometimes. Not drinking, but sitting next to it and it worries me. He has been so much livelier last week and this week he's like...down:(
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Cats can earn an increase if they stay continually in higher numbers without dropping into any green numbers. Once you change over to Prozinc I would recommend you start posting over on the Prozinc page and start one of the protocols. There are experienced Prozinc users over there who will help you very step if the way.
Have you ever tested for ketones or has the vet mentioned them? FD cats can be prone to them especially when they are in high numbers. I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from the pharmacy and test Perlutz ‘s urine. It is a simple test and good to rule out ketones .......ketones can lead on to an illness called DKA which is very serious. But if caught early can be sorted out. I’m not saying Perlutz has them but it is a good idea for all unregulated cats to be tested a couple of times a week.
Not sure why he is drinking more. He is in high numbers for a good part of the day and that will make him pee more and want to drink more.
Am glad you are going to ask to swap insulins on Tuesday.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Cats can earn an increase if they stay continually in higher numbers without dropping into any green numbers. Once you change over to Prozinc I would recommend you start posting over on the Prozinc page and start one of the protocols. There are experienced Prozinc users over there who will help you very step if the way.
Have you ever tested for ketones or has the vet mentioned them? FD cats can be prone to them especially when they are in high numbers. I would buy a bottle of Ketostix from the pharmacy and test Perlutz ‘s urine. It is a simple test and good to rule out ketones .......ketones can lead on to an illness called DKA which is very serious. But if caught early can be sorted out. I’m not saying Perlutz has them but it is a good idea for all unregulated cats to be tested a couple of times a week.
Not sure why he is drinking more. He is in high numbers for a good part of the day and that will make him pee more and want to drink more.
Am glad you are going to ask to swap insulins on Tuesday.
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Well the 1st vet didn't mention testing for ketones but I've read about it here so I am sort of testing for ketones. I am saying sort of because I haven't managed to get a proper pee sample so I'm just dunking the stick in the litter box after he has a wee and so far we've had negative results. I did mention this to the 2nd vet and he said although not ideal, it's best to test like this than not test at all. Also have the Diastix but not using them much as we are testing with the meter.

He is drinking more again but there's not much action in the litter box, doesn't pee that much. I will change his litter box again later today just to have a better idea and maybe try again with the foil, maybe I can get a proper sample.
 
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