URGENT help needed, fearing hypoglicemia

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Georgiana & Perlutz

Georgiana & Perlutz

Member Since 2019
Hi,

Perlutz’s BG was 5.2 this morning (using AlphaTrak) and my bf still gave him his insulin :arghh: (he didn’t realize, wasn’t done with bad intent) and now I’m obviouslly fearing the worst. This was 30 min ago. As soon as he told me, I gave Perlutz about 10 high carb treats. I thought I shouldn’t give more to keep his interest in them so I can give some more in a lil while. I have honey handy, I have some wet food with sauce, higher in carbs. I will stay home with Perlutz today to keep an eye on him but he is not very easy to test, not on my own:( And I don’t even drive so in case of emergency, it’s not as easy as jumping in the car with him. If anything happens, I will get him to the vet even if I have to hitchhike or whatever.

Do you have any advice on how to avoid him going into hypo, please?

I hope my message makes sense, I’m in panic mode already

Thanks!
 
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Hi,
Take a deep breath.........as long as you are testing the BSL you are in control.
Can you take Perlutz's BSL at@1.....that is one hour after the insulin was given and tell us what it is please?
I will stay with you until this is sorted out, or get someone else to help, so don't worry you are not alone.
Bron
 
In your shoes I would call the vet to explain and if necessary get a taxi there... you can try to get some high-carb food into him and have honey handy, etc but if he's difficult to test and you're not confident about doing so, it sounds as if you may have no idea how low he's going and what the best course of action is. As you realise, 1.5u of Caninsulin is enough on a bg of 5.5 to cause hypo and it's always better to be safe than sorry.

Just finished typing the above and seen Bron's reassuring message - but the worry is IF you are able to test. You didn't sound very confident about that but do you think you can? If so, great - if not, I'd take my cat to the vet...
 
Diana&Tom said:
In your shoes I would call the vet to explain and if necessary get a taxi there... you can try to get some high-carb food into him and have honey handy, etc but if he's difficult to test and you're not confident about doing so, it sounds as if you may have no idea how low he's going and what the best course of action is. As you realise, 1.5u of Caninsulin is enough on a bg of 5.5 to cause hypo and it's always better to be safe than sorry.

Just finished typing the above and seen Bron's reassuring message - but the worry is IF you are able to test. You didn't sound very confident about that but do you think you can? If so, great - if not, I'd take my cat to the vet...
Click to expand...

Yes, what you say makes sense Diana.........especially is she isn't confident testing.
A very good idea to ring the vet
 
Hi Bron,

I will take his BSL soon, at +1 and I will test hourly after as well. Just hoping he will let me do it.

On Saturday his AMPS was 8.1 and after thorough consideration and talking to his vet, we gave his normal shot and he dropped at 3.6 at +5 and he didn't show any signs of hypo, he was just laying/sleeping in his basket as normal. I'm fearing it might drop even lower today :(

Thank you for being here for us!

Georgiana
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Hi Bron,

I will take his BSL soon, at +1 and I will test hourly after as well. Just hoping he will let me do it.

On Saturday his AMPS was 8.1 and after thorough consideration and talking to his vet, we gave his normal shot and he dropped at 3.6 at +5 and he didn't show any signs of hypo, he was just laying/sleeping in his basket as normal. I'm fearing it might drop even lower today :(

Thank you for being here for us!

Georgiana
Click to expand...
Yes I saw that on the SS.
I was concerned you didn't test again after the drop to 3.6. Always test again when you get a low number to check it is not droppping further and is rising. Also give some High Carb food with a low number like that.
Diana has made a very good point.....if you can't test, you would be wise to go to the vet so that they can monitor him.
Let's see how you go with the +1and what it is.
Areyou going to be around. @Diana&Tom
 
Diana&Tom said:
In your shoes I would call the vet to explain and if necessary get a taxi there... you can try to get some high-carb food into him and have honey handy, etc but if he's difficult to test and you're not confident about doing so, it sounds as if you may have no idea how low he's going and what the best course of action is. As you realise, 1.5u of Caninsulin is enough on a bg of 5.5 to cause hypo and it's always better to be safe than sorry.

Just finished typing the above and seen Bron's reassuring message - but the worry is IF you are able to test. You didn't sound very confident about that but do you think you can? If so, great - if not, I'd take my cat to the vet...
Click to expand...


I've tested him on my own before and I've managed with no issues. But the last few days he's been more finicky.

His vet is closed for another hour. There is his old vet that I could take him to now, but I don't trust them anymore and their methods are a bit barbaric imo.
 
Georgiana, if you really think you can manage a few tests this morning, fine - Bron said she may be around (I won't be for much longer - 8am UK time and I have to go to work). But do think about this - if he dropped to 3.6 after an AMPS of 8.5, he could go lower on an AMPS of 5.5 and you really don't want him going lower than the 3.6. I don't want to alarm you - on the contrary, I want you to stay calm - but it wouldn't be good advice if I said ok just see what you can do and let's hope he'll be fine... of course, we hope he will be, but this is worrying territory so we can only say it as it is.

Maybe get another test in at +1 and see what's happening then - by that time the vet should be open and you can make a decision about what you feel is best.

All paws crossed...
 
Bron and Sheba said:
That rise could be from the high carb treats you gave when you found out.
I would give a teaspoon of your higher carb food now to build up the BSL for the onset of the caninsulin and test again in 1 hour.
What do you think @Diana&Tom ?
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Yes. The treats are probably very high-carb so you're probably seeing a food spike. A little high-carb food now would be better for the reason Bron says. Caninsulin can take effect very fast and drop very quickly so it's important to stay on top of this and be prepared.
For future reference, you should never really give Caninsulin on a bg lower than 11. An experienced caregiver who has been doing this for a while and knows how their cat typically responds might do so, but when you're starting out you should be wary.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Georgiana, if you really think you can manage a few tests this morning, fine - Bron said she may be around (I won't be for much longer - 8am UK time and I have to go to work). But do think about this - if he dropped to 3.6 after an AMPS of 8.5, he could go lower on an AMPS of 5.5 and you really don't want him going lower than the 3.6. I don't want to alarm you - on the contrary, I want you to stay calm - but it wouldn't be good advice if I said ok just see what you can do and let's hope he'll be fine... of course, we hope he will be, but this is worrying territory so we can only say it as it is.

Maybe get another test in at +1 and see what's happening then - by that time the vet should be open and you can make a decision about what you feel is best.

All paws crossed...
Click to expand...

Hi Diana,

I just did a +1, it was pretty straight forward. He's very finicky for his PMPS as he's hungry, but now that he's been fed and he's just chilling, it was easy.

I really appreciate you saying it as it is, I understand the severity of the situation and wouldn't like anyone to sugar coat it for me.

I will keep an eye on him and continue to test. If he drops, we will go to the vet.

Boyfriend will be told off massively when he comes back home. He had the best intentions, Valentine's Day and all he thought he'd let me sleep a little bit more as I've been feeling unwell yesterday. But he messed up big time :mad:
 
Diana&Tom said:
Yes. The treats are probably very high-carb so you're probably seeing a food spike. A little high-carb food now would be better for the reason Bron says. Caninsulin can take effect very fast and drop very quickly so it's important to stay on top of this and be prepared.
For future reference, you should never really give Caninsulin on a bg lower than 11. An experienced caregiver who has been doing this for a while and knows how their cat typically responds might do so, but when you're starting out you should be wary.
Click to expand...
@Diana&Tom
I am not a caninsulin user. Do you think it would be a good idea to get a +1.5 to catch the beginning of the drop?
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Hi Diana,

I just did a +1, it was pretty straight forward. He's very finicky for his PMPS as he's hungry, but now that he's been fed and he's just chilling, it was easy.

I really appreciate you saying it as it is, I understand the severity of the situation and wouldn't like anyone to sugar coat it for me.

I will keep an eye on him and continue to test. If he drops, we will go to the vet.

Boyfriend will be told off massively when he comes back home. He had the best intentions, Valentine's Day and all he thought he'd let me sleep a little bit more as I've been feeling unwell yesterday. But he messed up big time :mad:
Click to expand...
OK great, I feel happier now to hear you're ok with testing, you did sound panicky in your first post! Keep a very close eye and if at all worried ring the vet.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
@Diana&Tom
I am not a caninsulin user. Do you think it would be a good idea to get a +1.5 to catch the beginning of the drop?
Click to expand...
It depends... all those treats may be helping, and TBH I don't have time to keep referring to the ss to see previous responses... I think see what +2 is and if that shows a big drop, take more action which might include more food, honey, vet call...
 
@Bron and Sheba I did give him some high carb and he ate it happily.

@Diana&Tom I have been told by the vet that it is safe to give him at 8.1 if we are home and able to keep an eye on him. We wouldn't have done it on a week day. We've also been told that if his BSL are low, to give 0.5 units rather than nothing. But honestly, I think we need a different insulin. It's been one month since diagnosis and we're getting nowhere... We have a scheduled vet app next Tuesday and we were supposed to discuss a change.

Thank you both for being here for us:bighug:
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
@Bron and Sheba I did give him some high carb and he ate it happily.

@Diana&Tom I have been told by the vet that it is safe to give him at 8.1 if we are home and able to keep an eye on him. We wouldn't have done it on a week day. We've also been told that if his BSL are low, to give 0.5 units rather than nothing. But honestly, I think we need a different insulin. It's been one month since diagnosis and we're getting nowhere... We have a scheduled vet app next Tuesday and we were supposed to discuss a change.

Thank you both for being here for us:bighug:
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Hmmm I don't think it's good advice to say it's ok to give a shot of C on a bg of 8. And to give .5u if bg is low - what's "low"? Too vague. Have you read the beginners guide some of us here put together? It might be helpful. And yes a different insulin may well be better. A month isn't that long in the scheme of things but C is really made for dogs who have a different metabolism and many owners here find their cat does better on something else.
 
Diana&Tom said:
Hmmm I don't think it's good advice to say it's ok to give a shot of C on a bg of 8. And to give .5u if bg is low - what's "low"? Too vague. Have you read the beginners guide some of us here put together? It might be helpful. And yes a different insulin may well be better. A month isn't that long in the scheme of things but C is really made for dogs who have a different metabolism and many owners here find their cat does better on something else.
Click to expand...

I have read the beginners guide, even have it printed for easier reference. However, in the heat of the moment, we (stupidly) still went with the vet's advice. We called his vet here in UK and even the vet back home that was seeing him years before we moved to the UK. They said the same thing so we went with their advice and we got lucky that one time as in he was okay at the end of the day.

But after seeing that lime green on his SS, I said that's it, no more insulin below 11. However, my boyfriend, although he loves Perlutz nearly as much as I do, has done this stupid thing today...

His BSL are all over the show, and the more I read, the more I don't understand why we have been given Caninsulin in the first place! We haven't been told there are others, explained how others work, nothing! We've been sent home with Caninsulin and Hill W/D :facepalm: Last vet visit (different vet from disgnosis), nearly 2 weeks ago, we agreed on trying Canisulin for 2 more weeks, do a curve this coming Sunday and then discuss options at the next app on Tuesday. Really hoping we will be given a different one.
 
Sigh... vets all over the world don't seem to get much training in FD so go by old school ideas that aren't always the best. You may be lucky and get a more clued-up one but they're hard to find.
I suggest getting a coloured marker pen and using it to highlight the areas of the beginners guide that you want to remember, then you have a quick reference.
As for hoping you will be given a different insulin, you may well have to be pro active and ask outright for another one. Show the vet your ss and say look, numbers are all over the place, it can't be good for my cat, I'd like to try another one. TBH if you've been reading here for a while you probably know more about FD than your vet anyway.

@Bron and Sheba if you could stick around for a bit that would be great, I really have to go now but will check in again later.
 
Looking at the SS I would like to make a few comments.
Are you able to get a +2 after the preshots to see if it is going to be an active cycle.? I know you work but getting a +2 will give you a heads up as to what might be going to happen and you can leave some higher carb food out, if necessary
Also getting a before bed test is a good idea as cats often drop lower at night.
When you get a low number always test again to see that the BSL is rising.
68 (3.7) on the Alphatrak is the take action number, meaning you need to give some higher carb food to raise the BSL.
Use your remarks column to write in what you have fed and if you are giving any higher carb food.
Prozinc and Lantus are both good insulins which are available in the U.K.
Diana has given you good advice about using Caninsulin.
Yes, Diana I will stick around......8 pm Thursday night here in Australia. Thanks for all your help:bighug:
 
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Bron and Sheba said:
Looking at the SS I would like to make a few comments.
Are you able to get a +2 after the preshots to see if it is going to be an active cycle.? I know you work but getting a +2 will give you a heads up as to what might be going to happen and you can leave some higher carb food out, if necessary
Also getting a before bed test is a good idea as cats often drop lower at night.
When you get a low number always test again to see that the BSL is rising.
68 (3.7) on the Alphatrak is the take action number, meaning you need to give some higher carb food to raise the BSL.
Use your remarks column to write in what you have fed and if you are giving any higher carb food.
Prozinc and Lantus are both good insulins which are available in the U.K.
Diana has given you good advice about using Caninsulin.
Yes, Diana I will stick around......8 pm Thursday night here in Australia. Thanks for all your help:bighug:
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We have been doing some +2 or +3 in the evening, but not in the morning Monday-Friday (I had to go to work earlier than usual last 2 weeks). I could do +1 in the morning from now on on most mornings, but a +2 might be tricky to manage with work.
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Yes, 8.2... Will do a +3 in about 30 min. He is okay at the moment, just quiet, in his basket. Will give him some more high carb food, hopefully he'll eat some more.

Thanks for staying with us Bron!
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Don't give him too much food as we may need to feed him later and we don't want him to get full, but we want to keep ahead of him dropping too much as well.
You are doing well.
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Don't give him too much food as we may need to feed him later and we don't want him to get full, but we want to keep ahead of him dropping too much as well.
You are doing well.
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He was happily eating some more but I did take it away after he had about a tbsp. Just like you said, he might be too full or just lose interest later.

He's grooming himself now, still sitting in his basket under the heater. Seems alright, but I'm worried for later on :(

Since I will be home today, I will update his speadsheet with what he ate. I do have notes for what he ate and how much water he drank, how he was feeling etc. I just kept these on a little notebook.

I did enquire about ProZinc during last 2 vet visits but I didn't argue with his decision to continue on Caninsulin for 2 more weeks. Inside me I was screaming "no, give us something else" but I didn't say anything out of fear he will think I'm being a smart ass or suggesting I know better than him etc. so I kept quiet...
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
He was happily eating some more but I did take it away after he had about a tbsp. Just like you said, he might be too full or just lose interest later.

He's grooming himself now, still sitting in his basket under the heater. Seems alright, but I'm worried for later on :(

Since I will be home today, I will update his speadsheet with what he ate. I do have notes for what he ate and how much water he drank, how he was feeling etc. I just kept these on a little notebook.

I did enquire about ProZinc during last 2 vet visits but I didn't argue with his decision to continue on Caninsulin for 2 more weeks. Inside me I was screaming "no, give us something else" but I didn't say anything out of fear he will think I'm being a smart ass or suggesting I know better than him etc. so I kept quiet...
Click to expand...
If we keep testing and feeding him some higher carb food, hopefully we will be able to control the curve...or drop.
We still have honey to add if needed.
If you write the notes in the SS we can see them. When we help someone we always look at the SS and the notes as it helps us get information.
Is he usually good eater?
Keep persisting with the vet...they can be frustrating not wanting to change the insulin......but Prozinc or Lantus are both longer acting gentler insulins and most cats do very well on them. The RVC in the U.K. Said that they were the two insulins which gave the best results for cats going into remission. ......tell the vet that. Here is the link to the paper....but dont get caught up reading it and forget the +3;)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...the-uk-about-their-remission-research.206096/
 
I see 6.5 (117) on the SS. Still a safe number.. I would give another teaspoon of high carb again now and test again at 3.5 to see if it's dropping further. Can you post when you have fed please Georgiana?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
If we keep testing and feeding him some higher carb food, hopefully we will be able to control the curve...or drop.
We still have honey to add if needed.
If you write the notes in the SS we can see them. When we help someone we always look at the SS and the notes as it helps us get information.
Is he usually good eater?
Keep persisting with the vet...they can be frustrating not wanting to change the insulin......but Prozinc or Lantus are both longer acting gentler insulins and most cats do very well on them. The RVC in the U.K. Said that they were the two insulins which gave the best results for cats going into remission. ......tell the vet that. Here is the link to the paper....but dont get caught up reading it and forget the +3;)
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...the-uk-about-their-remission-research.206096/
Click to expand...

He is starting to drop, his +3 was 6.5. Gave him 1 treat after testing, high carb treat (he's not touching the low carb Thrive or Cosma treats). He is getting a little annoyed with me pricking his ears...

He has his appetite back the past 2 weeks, eating very well. He had 2 weeks before though when it was hard to get him to eat, some days we'd have to change the flavour 2-3 times before he'd eat anything. But now he's okay.

The vet we're seeing now is not the same who gave us the Caninsulin. He was fully booked and I knew there was definitely something wrong after 4 days of drinking a lot of water so I took Perlutz somewhere else, considered the other good vet in town, not wanting to wait few more days. So the one we're seeing now said if he was the one diagnosing Perlutz, he would have given us a choice between ProZinc and Caninsulin as some people cannot afford ProZinc. I did bring up the fact that RVC recommends Caninsulin should not be given to newly diagnosed and he seemed to agree. So I was surprised when he asked to stay on Caninsulin for 2 more weeks and see how it goes.

Will definitely stress that we wish to change insulins during our next appointment. Hopefully he will be fully on board after seeing Perlutz's SS.
 
Georgiana have you fed him some more HC food? I need you to get back to me each time you post the BSL and I answer so I know where we are please. Thanks:)
Did you see the suggestion to test @3.5?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
Georgiana have you fed him some more HC food? I need you to get back to me each time you post the BSL and I answer so I know where we are please. Thanks:)
Did you see the suggestion to test @3.5?
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Sorry, it seems my internet is sluggish today. Yes, have seen your suggestion. I have just given him a bit more food, he ate it. Will test again in 5 min at +3.5. We have an office building next to us and they’re having a noisy fire evacuation :banghead: hoping he won’t be too agitated because of the noise...

Again, thank you so much for walking me through all of this Bron!
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Sorry, it seems my internet is sluggish today. Yes, have seen your suggestion. I have just given him a bit more food, he ate it. Will test again in 5 min at +3.5. We have an office building next to us and they’re having a noisy fire evacuation :banghead: hoping he won’t be too agitated because of the noise...

Again, thank you so much for walking me through all of this Bron!
Click to expand...
I’m very happy to help. :)Waiting to hear back and not knowing if someone has seen the message can be worrying. Just press the like button then I know you have seen it.
Hope the fire next door is ok.
Can you post the BSLs on here as well as the SS please?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I’m very happy to help. :)Waiting to hear back and not knowing if someone has seen the message can be worrying. Just press the like button then I know you have seen it.
Hope the fire next door is ok.
Can you post the BSLs on here as well as the SS please?
Click to expand...
Just tested again at +3.5 and it dropped to 5.8. I'm not sure how to post +3.5 in the SS?
 
Georgiana & Perlutz said:
Gave him exactly as you said. He ate more than half of what I've given. Licked all the sauce though, so he got most if not all of the honey.

I think I'm starting to get panicky...

Will test again at +4 in few minutes.
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He’s still in safe numbers so try not to worry. We are testing often and so far managing well. We have to expect some drop in the numbers.
Post as soon as you get the +4
You are doing really well :bighug:
 
Just popping in briefly and pleased to see you two doing well! All those treats are doing their job! Just shows how much they can affect bg - if they can counteract insulin given on such a low amps, they are definitely only to be used for such purposes and not too much at other times when the goal is to keep bg down!
 
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