First curve - please help

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Georgiana & Perlutz

Georgiana & Perlutz

Member Since 2019
Hi,

We are planning to do Perlutz’s first glucose curve tomorrow and we’re not sure whether to do it every 2 hours or every 1 hour (I’ve read somewhere that every hour is recommended for cats on Caninsulin)?

We cannot do a 24 hours curve because of work so we’re planning to start just before his insulin shot at 7AM. Should we test until his next shot at 7PM or after as well?

Lastly, should we give him any treats at all before/after pricking his little ears? The best option would be Encore 100% tuna loin, every other treat we have is either not suitable for diabetic or he does’t like it (Thrive dried tuna).

We have only managed 1 successful BG test so far so we are quite worried about it. Any tips and advice would be greatly appreciated!
 
Just one cycle is fine (12 hours)
It might be good if you can do hourly at first as caninsulin is fast acting and it helps to spot the low point. Once it is on the rise again though you could do two-hourly.
And yes! Always give treats!!! And apart from the PS tests they can have free access to food too.
 
Thank you @flyingduster we’ll try every hour and see if he’ll be okay with it. He has been very stressed this week and has just slowly started to improve a little bit so hoping this won’t break his trust in us for good:(
 
Thank you for the link, Bron. I will check it out, we’re just having a sip of coffee and get ready to start testing :nailbiting:

I haven’t set up a spreadsheet yet but I will today.
 
We just tested and his BG was 6.7 on the AlphaTrak before food! Took us completely by surprise as his previous reading on Friday AM was a whooping 34.8!

We haven’t shot him and will test every hour and see how his BG will be during the day.
 
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I’m glad you didn’t give any insulin.
Try and get the spreadsheet up and running ASAP as it is much easier to see what is happening with a SS verses just numbers on a page.
You probably need to reduce the dose of insulin so you can shoot both cycles during the day. I will tag @Kris & Teasel as she is familiar with caninsulin.
In the meantime can you post all the BSLs you get so we can see how things are going please?
 
Bron and Sheba said:
I’m glad you didn’t give any insulin.
Try and get the spreadsheet up and running ASAP as it is much easier to see what is happening with a SS verses just numbers on a page.
You probably need to reduce the dose of insulin so you can shoot both cycles during the day. I will tag @Kris & Teasel as she is familiar with caninsulin.
In the meantime can you post all the BSLs you get so we can see how things are going please?
Click to expand...
Hi Bron,

I have a SS in my signature, could only get it to show up as a link...

I called his vet as well as we need to pick up something later and they’ve advised not to shoot unless he goes to aprox 15 and then we would need to figure out what to do with his PM shot... He normally gets his insulin at 7AM and 7PM, it’s nearly 10AM now.
 
I can see your SS... well done! It is supposed to be in your signature so all is well.
I would not give any insulin until the PM dose whatever the BSL, now that you have skipped the am dose. Just wait until the PM dose to give the next dose. Otherwise you will be completely mixed up with times going forward.
By the way your kitty is gorgeous!

The current dose of 2 units looks like it is too much for you to be able to shoot both times a day which is important. I’m also going to tag @Elizabeth and Bertie as she is also very familiar with caninsulin and she lives in the UK as you do. Hopefully Eliz or Kris will come online to advise you re the dose before it is time to give the next dose. I have not used caninsulin so am unfamiliar with it.
This is not an unfamiliar scenario so don’t be worried.
Bron.
 
Thank you, Bron :cat: Your little girl was a cutie too, read in you signature that you’ve sadly lost her :( So sorry :( But I’m glad you’ve decided to still help others on FDMB :bighug:h

His +4 reading actually when down a bit at 10.2 from the previous one. What level would you say I should give him insulin at? I will wait until 7PM, his usual time but just wondering what a safe number would be. Do you know where I could find more info on what numbers to give insulin at and maybe when to give a reduced dose etc? I did try to look it up, but with little to no luck.

I feel like in a way both me and the boyfriend are doing our best, but in a way I feel like we’re failing him as we still haven't figured out so many things!
 
I agree with Bron that you should wait until next shot time to give insulin. You're using an AT pet meter that reads higher than the human meters most of us use here and you're new to gathering data. Caninsulin has a strong action so I'd recommend no shot unless the PS is in the vicinity of 13 - 14 mmol/L. As you gather more data and learn more about your kitty's responses, that no shot number can be reduced.

The 2 u dose seems too high. The typical starting dose would be 1 u twice a day. If I was in your position I'd lower the dose to 1 u next dose and try that for a few days to see how he does. If it proves to be too low the dose can be carefully increased on 0.25 u increments. Do your syringes have half unit marks? The 0.25 u increment would have to be eyeballed regardless but the half unit marks make it easier.

Don't be hard on yourself. It takes quite a while to figure this out. By testing at home and using the spreadsheet you've taken some very important steps to help your kitty. :)
 
Why not try this basic testing routine we recommend for the next while to gather data:
  1. test every day AM and PM before feeding and injecting (no food at least 2 hours before) to see if the planned dose is safe
  2. test at least once near mid cycle or at bedtime daily to see how low the BG goes
  3. do extra tests on days off to fill in the response picture
  4. if indicated by consistently high numbers on your spreadsheet, increase the dose by no more than 0.25 u at a time so you don't accidentally go right past a good dose
  5. post here for advice whenever you're confused or unsure of what to do.
Getting a scattering of data over time gives a better picture of insulin response than doing, say, a weekly curve. If that curve is done on a day when BG is inflated because of rebound from a previous (maybe) undetected low it gives a false impression of what the dose is doing.
 
My goodness! So glad you didn't shoot this morning! Good job with the spreadsheet and the tests you're getting today.

Georgiana said:
I feel like in a way both me and the boyfriend are doing our best, but in a way I feel like we’re failing him as we still haven't figured out so many things!
Click to expand...

Not at all, you're doing great! Just getting the testing going is huge, and will be a big help going forward-- as you saw this morning!

How is Perlutz feeling/behaving?
 
@Kris & Teasel Our new syringes don’t have a half unit and we just bought 100 of them this morning... But if need be, I can try and buy the half units one again.

We intended to test every morning AM and PM but we had a bit of a rough start, no blood coming out and then Perlutz was stressed after vet visits and just not himself at all and we stupidly decided not to stress him more with testing :banghead: However, we got to practice a lot today and we will definitely test every AM and PM and some more after PM. Unfortunately we are both at work during the day Mon-Fri and cannot test. We can do curves at weekends only.

His +6 just went high again at 16.7 and we still have another 5 hours until usual shot time...

For the last few days I kept seeing him slide a little on his hind legs sometimes and I wasn’t sure if I am imagining it and seeing things after reading about neuropathy, but I am pretty sure it’s not just my imagination:eek: Boyfriend says he saw something too. It’s just hardly noticeable but maybe it’s just the beggining Does anyone have any experience with this? I would rather seek treatment sooner rather than wait until it gets worse, if possible.

@Nan & Amber he is still not himself but who can blame him with all these changes in his lil body, us constantly picking at his ears... But I would say he is better than he has been few days ago when he wasn’t doing anything but sit in his basket, had zero appetite... He is still not eating a lot, but it’s an improvement! He had 2/3 of his Purina Gourmet today, last night he came to our bed and this morning again which he hasn’t been doing for a couple of weeks now (before diagnosis it was hard to get him out of our bed, his fav was sleeping like a baby in between us:joyful: anyone else spooning with their cat:smuggrin:?).

Thank you ALL for your help and kind words, it really means a lot!
 
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I’m also thinking of changing his food...

Before diagnosis, he was on Hills Metabolic dry food (now I know what a bad choice that was:banghead:) and 1 wet can a day and he was licking the bowl clean regardless of flavour or brand. He was eating Applwas, Schesir and Purina Gourmet with mostly Gourmet the month preceding the diagnosis.

The vet recommended Hills w/d which we bought from them that day, but Perlutz refused to eat it full stop (and the more I read about feeding a diabetic cat, I’m thibking what a smart cat!). The first week he was eating almost a full can of Gourmet Am and another one PM but then he slowly starting eating less and less, some shots were missed because he didn’t eat at all, other times we gave a smaller dose as he only ate a very small amount. And I do think he seemed better after missed or lower doses which makes me aggre with you @Kris & Teasel that the dose is probably too high.

So I kept him on the Gourmet but also bought some Bozita to slowly introduce him to it. He disliked Bozita too so now I’m looking into ordering some Thrive as it’s less carbs and now that we can confidently test at home. Have you guys swapped foods just like that or slowly introduced them by mixing foods or other methods?
 
Hmm, on the swapping foods, it's definitely easier on their digestive systems to do a gradual introduce, but if they really don't like a new food and aren't eating it, sometimes you have to do some quick switches just to get them eating something. Just keep the digestive issues in mind as you're doing so-- if they seem to like the taste at first but then back off after a meal or two, that might be the problem and it might (or might not!) settle down.

Took a peek at the spreadsheet, looks like Perlutz is zooming up after those lows! We call that "bouncing", it's a perfectly normal (if frustrating) part of the process, particularly on a fast-acting in-and-out insulin like Caninsulin (the effects of last night's shot are long gone, so he's getting a double-whammy right now). I'll defer to the Caninsulin users on how to handle this at shot time, but I agree on general principle that it looks like the old dose of 2U was too high.
 
@Nan & Amber I will introduce the food gradually, see how it goes.

And yes, there’s some very high results now! And poor lil guy is starting to look a little under the weather :( I think we’ll only give him one unit today.
 
Both being in high numbers alone and bouncing back and forth between low and high can make them feel yucky :(. Hopefully you'll be able to get him levelled out and in better numbers soon, it is so hard seeing them looking like they aren't feeling well...
 
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