HELP OR ANY SUGGESTIONS>>>??

Karyanne80

Karyanne80

Member Since 2017
Lovey Lou is 13 1/2 years old. She has been on Lantis for about 2 years. She gets 2 units every morning at 6am along with Fancy Feast Chunky Chicken. She eats Fancy Feast Chunky Chicken at 12pm - then at Dinner 6pm she gets 2 units and Fancy Feast Chunky Chicken. She eats about 3/4 to 1 full can of fancy feast per feeding.

I home test her and she stays at about a 230-235. After many vet visits and panels, we haven't be able to get her levels any lower. We have tried different doses – more and less. But the 2 units is the only dose that gets her levels this low.


We are having some major issues with her for about the past 2 months.

ALL DAY and ALL NIGHT long she acts like she is absolutely starving to death. She will torment the other pets in the house. She begs for food, all day. She will scour the house for any scent of something edible. She will try to climb into the fridge if the door is open. When I feed her, she eats so fast she almost chokes. She will eat her entire serving in about 30-45 seconds.

She has had arthritis for the past 3 years and has trouble jumping, but lately she has acted so hungry she manages to jump onto the kitchen counter. She jumps up there when we aren't looking, aren't home or when we are asleep. She will eat ANYTHING. She eats plants, ate a stick of butter, tried to eat a plastic fork (that was in a plastic bag from takeout there wasn't any food on it, probably just smelled like food) – We have to keep our kitchen spot less. Can’t keep anything out….. no dishes, no produce, NOTHING. She will eat it. I caught her licking the sink one day.

We have to feed our other cat in a different room with the door shut, or she will fight her and eat her food. She will sit outside the door and scratch and meow while our other cat eats.

All she cares about is food. She won’t even cuddle with me anymore, she won’t play or just settle and relax. All she cares about is food.


When we feed our 2 dogs, she will stand by and try any chance she can to eat their food. Our poor dogs are so stressed out during feeding. This has made for a very very stressful home situation with the other pets, and causing us a lot of stress and tension.


She has recently been peeing outside of the litter box. The litter is completely clean, the box is huge and she has never had litter box issues.


I have an apt Monday 1/21/19, I don’t know what to do for her. Our home life is so stressful right now. It is really taking a toll on us all (other pets included) I have tried feeding her more, and she just gets so full that she throws up. She would probably eat herself to death.
She seems to be losing more weight. Kind boney when I pet her around her hips and shoulders.


I guess I just really need some advice…… is she miserable? Is she even living a good quality of life?? Is she getting old and losing her mind? Am I being a bad cat mom and not seeing signs that she is unhappy. She has been such a wonderful, fun loving cat. She is just not herself anymore. What do I do? How do I help her, my family and my other pets?????
 
Hey there! I can sympathize with you as Bubba was just like that when he wasn't controled yet and was throwing ketones. Question: Are you checking for ketones? Kitties usually throw them in higher numbers but Bubba was throwing them in the mid 200 range.

When they are throwing ketones, they are literally starving and they lose weight.

If you aren't checking, I would suggest to get some ketone sticks from the pharmacy ( the kind people use ) and monitor him when he goes to the litter box and get the strip under his stream of pee. Some people use a cheap plastic ladle to get under their bum to collect the urine.

Ketones might not be the cause but it is certainly worth checking. We were quite surprised when we discovered he had ketones. After we knew, we had to work to break through glucose toxicity as he was so stuck in the 200's for so long it had become his normal.

Good luck and keep us posted.

ETA: Another thing that can cause weight loss and extreme hunger is hyper thyroid issues so have her screened for thyroid. She is at that age when kitties develop issues with their thyroid.
 
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Karyanne80 said:
What do I do? How do I help her, my family and my other pets?????
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The only way known to me to figure out what's going on is to test regularly and keep records in the form of a SpreadSheet. If you being hometesting you can transfer results from meter's memory into the SS. Here is the how to set the SS.

BG 230/235 isn't really high but the behavior re: food is very typical for a cat in high numbers - they cannot process their food properly and literally starving to death. If she licking the sink - presumably searching for water - than it's another high BG confirming factor. Feed her if she is hungry - you can dose around it to get into better BG numbers.

Cats on a dose can go from very high to very low in one 12 cycle. Being very low in my cat often accompanied by gulping style eating - something akin to your description .."When I feed her, she eats so fast she almost chokes. She will eat her entire serving in about 30-45 seconds."..

The only way to understand what exactly you are dealing with it to do SS and talk to us here. If it sounds daunting please do not think so - all thing with testing/ dosing and feeding will become a routine pretty soon and your family life will certainly improve. Ask any questions you have - most ppl on here were thru what you are going thru and will be glad to help.
@Karyanne80
 
Also, she seems to be skinny/boney.
Bobbie And Bubba said:
Hey there! I can sympathize with you as Bubba was just like that when he wasn't control yet and was throwing ketones. Question: Are you checking for ketones? Kitties usually throw them in higher numbers but Bubba was throwing them in the mid 200 range.

When they are throwing ketones, they are literally starving and they lose weight.

If you aren't checking, I would suggest to get some ketone sticks from the pharmacy ( the kind people use ) and monitor him when he goes to the litter box and get the strip under his stream of pee. Some people use a cheap plastic ladle to get under their bum to collect the urine.

Ketones might not be the cause but it is certainly worth checking. We were quite surprised when we discovered he had ketones. After we knew, we had to work to break through glucose toxicity as he was so stuck in the 200's for so long it had become his normal.

Good luck and keep us posted.

ETA: Another thing that can cause weight loss and extreme hunger is hyper thyroid issues so have her screened for thyroid. She is at that age when kitties develop issues with their thyroid.
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THANK YOU FOR ALL THIS INFO. IS she is having Ketone problems, what are the remedies? Or how do you fix Ketone problems???
 
Tanya and Ducia said:
The only way known to me to figure out what's going on is to test regularly and keep records in the form of a SpreadSheet. If you being hometesting you can transfer results from meter's memory into the SS. Here is the how to set the SS.

BG 230/235 isn't really high but the behavior re: food is very typical for a cat in high numbers - they cannot process their food properly and literally starving to death. If she licking the sink - presumably searching for water - than it's another high BG confirming factor. Feed her if she is hungry - you can dose around it to get into better BG numbers.

Cats on a dose can go from very high to very low in one 12 cycle. Being very low in my cat often accompanied by gulping style eating - something akin to your description .."When I feed her, she eats so fast she almost chokes. She will eat her entire serving in about 30-45 seconds."..

The only way to understand what exactly you are dealing with it to do SS and talk to us here. If it sounds daunting please do not think so - all thing with testing/ dosing and feeding will become a routine pretty soon and your family life will certainly improve. Ask any questions you have - most ppl on here were thru what you are going thru and will be glad to help.
@Karyanne80
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Thank you for all this info. Def getting plenty of water. There is a water bowl in almost every room of our house and she drinks plenty.
I will start the spreadsheet tomorrow morning. THank you.
 
Karyanne80 said:
Also, she seems to be skinny/boney.



THANK YOU FOR ALL THIS INFO. IS she is having Ketone problems, what are the remedies? Or how do you fix Ketone problems???
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Adding extra water to the food to help flush ketones is helpful. And then getting enough insulin into her. First, get some ketone stix from the pharm and let's see if that is the issue. Adding extra water now until you know if ketones are the issue or not won't hurt her, so I would start adding about 1 tbsp or so of water each time you feed her. Also, the thyroid screening at the vets will be helpful too.
 
Karyanne80 said:
IS she is having Ketone problems, what are the remedies? Or how do you fix Ketone problems???
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enough insulin (BG consistently below renal threshold)+ enough food and water + be sure no infection/ inflammation is present (if present then add antibiotic). Until you know for sure about ketones let her eat a much as she wants wet food with extra water mixed into it. Keep testing the BG. Close monitoring is the way to start.
 
Aside from the great info you've already gotten that uncontrolled FD can cause extreme hunger, another thing to look into is the possibility of her having an overactive thyroid. HyperT can definitely cause an insatiable appetite and other behavioral issues as well. (Whoops - now I see that Bobbie posted the same thing!)

Also, I'm not sure what the carb content of FF Chunky Chicken is, but it may be too high for an FD kitty, and that can contribute to having difficulty with controlling BGs. FF Classic flavors are low carb, so you could try some of those and see how she responds. Note that if you do make a food switch, you want to be extra diligent with testing; suddenly reducing her carb intake could cause her BGs and insulin needs to come down very quickly. (This is also where the spreadsheet comes in very handy!)
 
Hello and welcome. Sorry to hear about your “starving” kitty. I too had one of those. I had to quarantine all my food and I caught my girl “cleaning” dishes is the sink once. :rolleyes: The only thing that saved me was when her arthritis got bad enough she couldn’t jump on the counter. My girl had a secondary condition called acromegaly, a benign pituitary tumour that puts out excess growth hormone. Think about teenagers undergoing growth spurts and their appetite.

A couple things helped me. The first was smaller more frequent meals, so about three meals AM and PM, just splitting her current food into smaller amounts, so she didn’t have to go as long between feeds. I also got an auto feeder, the Petsafe 5 is a good one, and dispensed her in between meals from that. So she ended up focussing her attention on the auto feeder instead of me.

I am glad you will be working on the spreadsheet. Your meter should also have a couple weeks worth of data in it’s memory that you can enter. We determine how to change doses based on how low the dose is taking the cat. Those low points, or nadirs, happen sometime mid cycle, so thoses are good tests to get too.

Good luck with the vet appointment, sounds like getting up to date senior panel including thyroid tests is a good idea.
 
Karyanne80 said:
Card count on the FF chunky chicken is only 5 carbs. Is that too much??? Thank you for the info
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We like to see them under 10% carbs for our sugar cats. That should be fine.

I like Wendy's suggestion to feed more often to keep the hungries away. I actually feed Bubba 3 meals in the AM cycle and 3 in the PM . I just split his calories up into 6 mini meals.

How much does she weigh? Or I should say, how much should she weigh? There is a formula for feeding guidelines.

It is weight ( use the weight she should be ) X 13.5 + 70 = amount of calories a day.

As an example, Bubba weighs 17 lbs.

So, it 17 X 13.5 =229 + 70 = 299.5 calories a day. I shoot for around that amount a day to maintain his weight. AS I said, it's a guideline but a good starting place.

Remember, use the weight she should be in the formula to see if she is getting enough calories.
 
Sooooo I had an interesting night. When I got off work last night I drove into town to buy Keto Strips and more home test strips BG. When I got home, Lovey Lou had managed to open the pantry door and drag a full loaf of bread out. She ate 7-8 piece of white bread!!!! I have NO IDEA how she was able to fit this all into her tummy. I tested her, and her levels were so high that it wouldn't even register on the meter. Just said "HI" She was busting at the seams!!! She looked like she was pregnant with about 10 kittens. She looked very uncomfortable, and really didn't move around the house much.. I was hoping that she would throw it all up. But that never happened. I made sure she drank plenty of water. I know white bread is terrible, and I monitored her for the rest of the evening and this morning. SMH
I attached a couple pictures. The Bread on the floor, a pic of what was left of the loaf, and a pic of her full tummy.
 

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Karyanne80 said:
Sooooo I had an interesting night. When I got off work last night I drove into town to buy Keto Strips and more home test strips BG. When I got home, Lovey Lou had managed to open the pantry door and drag a full loaf of bread out. She ate 7-8 piece of white bread!!!! I have NO IDEA how she was able to fit this all into her tummy. I tested her, and her levels were so high that it wouldn't even register on the meter. Just said "HI" She was busting at the seams!!! She looked like she was pregnant with about 10 kittens. She looked very uncomfortable, and really didn't move around the house much.. I was hoping that she would throw it all up. But that never happened. I made sure she drank plenty of water. I know white bread is terrible, and I monitored her for the rest of the evening and this morning. SMH
I attached a couple pictures. The Bread on the floor, a pic of what was left of the loaf, and a pic of her full tummy.
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OMG!! She is relentless!
 
My girl liked banana bread, blueberry muffins, a baguette and even ate some bread starter - which is worse than white bread. You may see some unfortunate results in the litter box tomorrow.:rolleyes:

Time for kiddie locks on the doors.
 
I did get ketone strips and did a home test. Negative.
I haven't had a chance to do her curve. I will be doing it this weekend. Just too hard when I'm working 2 jobs. =(((

Went to the vet yesterday. They did a urinalysis, blood draw and check up.
Her kidney levels are high 2.5!! The urinalysis was negative for any issues. They will have the results of the Thyroid test this morning.
I have attached her test results

She wanted me to start her on Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food.....???? I am really timid towards any kind of dry food!!! Can anyone give me advice on this?? I really don't want to change her from the Fancy Feast and have always read and been told NO DRY FOOD!!
She is already having a hard enough time with her BG. My vet also told me that the home testing might not be accurate, as I'm using a human BG meter.

This is all so expensive, the vet visits, tests/labs, special food, insulin, needles........ I drowning here......
 
Stick with the Fancy Feast! I had a conversation with my vet about food for Max. He tried getting me on a prescription diet (like Glycobalance) and I told him I didn't want any dry food, he said they have a canned version as well. I asked him what the difference was between canned prescription food and canned FF and so he looked up the nutrition facts for me on both...no real difference! He then told me is was OK to stick with Fancy Feast.
 
Giomax said:
Stick with the Fancy Feast! I had a conversation with my vet about food for Max. He tried getting me on a prescription diet (like Glycobalance) and I told him I didn't want any dry food, he said they have a canned version as well. I asked him what the difference was between canned prescription food and canned FF and so he looked up the nutrition facts for me on both...no real difference! He then told me is was OK to stick with Fancy Feast.
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Thank you, I feel the same way. I will stick with FF =)
 
Karyanne80 said:
My vet also told me that the home testing might not be accurate, as I'm using a human BG meter.
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My vet and IM specialist are okay with me using human meters. They know pet meters read higher in low numbers (I can't remember if that's correct or not.) They know the results differ with every meter and between pet meters as well. I believe the only way to get accurate tests is with a blood sample run through the lab for blood sugar levels but who has time and money for that?

I once used a pet meter and my human meter at the same time. The pet meter read higher than the human meter BUT Ming was also VERY high at the time. I've learned that once you get to lower numbers, the meter readings will be much closer in value and that's when it's the most important to be accurate.

If vet insists on fructosamine test (this is different from the blood sample I talked about), I wouldn't do it because you're already doing it with home testing and that's more accurate than the test.
 
Also, where is the best place to administer insulin? It's the easiest to do on either side of shoulder blades. I have read that it's best to do in the hind end.
I have tried to do this, but have a very hard time trying to grab enough skin to get the needle in. She is very boney back there. =(
 
In the scruff (between the shoulder blades) is where most of us do it. I was also told initially by my vet that the hind leg is one spot you can do but never specified that I had to do it there.
 
I do fructosamine testing every couple of months, every few weeks before I started home testing. It's not super cheap (about $90 at my vet) but knowing my human meter is working correctly will give me some extra peace of mind I think.
 
I see you have your spreadsheet attached, but don't see any data in it yet. It would be great if you could share your blood sugar test results by entering them on the spreadsheet. You are perfectly fine using a human meter. Until a few years ago hardly anyone used a pet meter until the company making them started really marketing them to vets. My vet used a Onetouch meter in her office, so she didn't ever bother trying to sell me on the pet meter. Both of the dosing methodologies we use here were developed using human meters, so it'll be easier if you stick to a human meter anyway.

Karyanne80 said:
Her kidney levels are high 2.5!! T
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Karyanne80 said:
She wanted me to start her on Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food.....????
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Not only is dry food bad for diabetics, it's also bad for cats with kidney disease. Stick to your guns and refuse to use it. Your kitty may have been dehydrated, which uncontrolled diabetics tend to be, and dehydration can raise the kidney numbers. Even if it's a non dehydrated number, a creatinine of 2.5 is just stage 2 kidney disease, which is early disease. She is starting to lose concentration of her urine (urine specific gravity) which is another sign of kidney disease. This website is a great one for kidney dissease.

Continuing on the food theme, I see her phosphorus is 5.8 now. That is too high for a kitty in stage 2 kidney disease. I would consider looking at other lower carb foods that have lower phosphorus levels. Fancy Feast is generally pretty high in phosphorus, and not the best choice. The FF Chunky Chicken is 458 mg/phosphorus and you'd ideally feed something less than 200, maybe up to 250 mg. Dr. Lisa's food chart contains lots of options. You can even use the sortable version to search for carbs under 10 and phosphorus under 250.
 
Karyanne80 said:
best place to administer insulin?
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When I first started I did the insulin shot in the scruff,as was advised. I did a Fur shot! I read more & watched videos & decided to try shooting in his side in front of his rear leg.You don't need to "GRAB" the skin .
I lay Ravan on his side & spread his fur so I can clearly see his skin I shoot at an angle just under his skin. There a lot of room to do shots in different areas And most important,
I've NEVER done a fur shot again! Ravan doesn't even seem to notice. :)
 
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I shoot in the Flank area No need to grab skin Just shoot at an angle ,under the skin.Make sure you part the fur & see skin.

I went to check her SS & there isn't any info? It's been nearly 2 yrs she's had Diabetes.It sounds like she's hungry because her BG is too high?
 
Thank you for the suggestions about the FF being high Phosphorus. I had no idea. I did a lot of research on the food spreadsheet. I found a couple different canned foods to try, that were at my local Petco, and somewhat affordable.
I bought
Soulistic "Aromatic Chicken" Protein 71 -Fat 29 - Carb 1 - Phos -207
Weruva "Chick Flick A Zee" Protein 51 - Fat 47 - Carb 2 - Phos 174
She really seems to really like both of them!!
Also, this food has seemed to keep her hunger at bay. At least she isn't scarfing down the food or driving us all crazy between feedings. What a relief!!!!!! I still mix it with water and that also seems to slower her down while eating. He BG has seemed to improve a bit. She has been very cuddly the past 2 days. I put her spreadsheet in my signature.

Test Results = Negative for Hyperthyroidism
 
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