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Sebastian

Sebastian

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So we woke up he morning of November 27th to find our cat Sebastian hiding in a corner, breathing heavily, and fairly unresponsive. I immediately called the vet to tell them what was going on. We had him at the vet by noon that day. They checked his blood and his sugar was 528. They also found a significant UTI and prescribed antibiotics.

They gave him insulin and kept him overnight for monitoring. We picked him up the morning of November 28th and the vet said he was borderline diabetic and that we should try Purina DM dry before trying insulin.


His UTI is gone now.


Upon returning home he refused the DM food. I did some research and found this forum. I immediately switched him to low carb wet food. I looked at the chart and try to keep the food we buy at about 5 or under as far as carb content. He’s been eating the Weruva brand.


We took him back to be checked on 12-5 and his sugar was just over 400.


The vet sent us on our way with a 10ml vial of prozinc and a container syringes. Prescribed dose is 1 unit twice daily.

The vet also told us not to check his sugar at home because he would start to resent us from poking his ear all the time.


I did purchase a relion prime meter along with necessary accessories Incase of emergencies but have yet to open the box because of the vets warning.


So after a week of insulin he had a checkup this morning (12-12-18). His sugar was 77. I was told to bring him back in 4-6 weeks for another checkup and to continue the 1 unit twice daily, if his sugar was 77 isn’t that too much insulin? I did give him his 1 unit after returning from the vet(10am). When I got home from work (7:30pm) he was breathing strangely and his eyelids were red and puffy. I don’t believe any of these are telltale signs of low sugar but I thought it worth mentioning. I promptly gave him a can of food and he seems okay now.


So basically my concern is that we’re giving him too much insulin. And being the vet told me not to check it myself and not to bring him to be checked for 4-6 weeks, I thought it prudent to get some more thorough, if not better information.

He’s a six year old male, we had him fixed about 18months ago.
 
Oh my goodness! Why oh why do vets do things like this!

First of all, giving Prozinc on a 77 is nothing short of dangerous. You can do that with some of the longer acting insulins, but only after a while, not in the first little bit. And definitely not at the beginining with Prozinc.

Second, while it can take some cats a little bit of adjusting to the testing, other cats don't feel it at all. And I can tell you as someone who had a cat that was very difficult to test at first - even though he doesnt' love it, when it's time for a test, he comes to the place we do them and hops up on his own. Definitely not the behavior of a cat that resents it.

Please open your meter and give it a try. And please please don't give insulin on a 77.

My hunch is that your cat is either responding well to the insulin (and the 77 might have been a nadir reading), or he wasn't really diabetic and had elevated blood glucose because of the stress of the vet visit and the UTI. Home testing is the only way to sort this out.

Have you found the videos that show how to test at home? Do you think your kitty will be cooperative? If not, just let us know and we can help you with some tips and tricks for working with a resistant cat so it isn't traumatic for Sebastian or for you.
 
Thanks for the advice, we’re going to try and test him in about a half hour when my girlfriend gets off work (I’m not brave enough to try it myself the first time)

I didn’t want to dose him at 77 but I also didn’t want to not dose him because of the vets recommendation.

Also, I’ve seen some conflicting information as far as normal levels. Is it 80-120 same as humans? Or are cats different?

I’ve watched quite a few videos on testing and will brush up before we try it.

As far as cooperation... as soon as I say he will or won’t cooperate he’ll immediately do the opposite so we’ll just wait and see :)
 
Blood glucose (BG) can vary a lot throughout the day. On prozinc the pre-shot number is higher, then drops until it hits the lowest point (called nadir), and then rises again. So if you plot the numbers on a graph, they end up looking like a smile. So my hope is that the 77 was actually the nadir. That usually happens somewhere between 4-7 hours after the shot is given.

While you're waiting for your GF to come home, look around and think about where you might designate as the "testing place". We've found that having a consistent place is helpful to establishing the routine. Some people use a corner of the sofa, or a small table, or the bathroom counter - it can really be anywhere that you and Sebastian are comfortable, and that has good light so you can see well to do the test. Especially helpful if Sebastian has dark ears. Then take him there, rub his ears a little, give him a treat, and let him go. You're starting to help him associate the location with something positive.

Then deep breaths. The more relaxed you are, the more relaxed Sebastian will be. When I test my civvie (I've just done it a couple of times out of curiosity), he doesn't even feel it. Like he literally sleeps through it. The majority of cats really aren't bothered by the testing.
 
So we tried it. I couldn’t get him to bleed, I hit the small vein on the outer edge of the ear directly after warming it with a rice bag. I tried twice and gave up to give him a break. I could see where the lancet hit the vein because there was a little red mark. I’m using a relion lancet device with 26 gauge lancets. I set the depth at the second setting. One setting up from the shallowest setting for the first try, the second try a went to the next deepest setting which would be the middle of the 5 settings.
 
It can be hard at first because their ears aren't used to bleeding. As you test more, they grow more capillaries and the bleeding is easier. Once you've poked, I always suggest massaging the ear a bit to encourage blood to come...I had to do that with Gypsy at first a lot because I'd poke and nothing...but if I sort of massaged the ear near the poke, a blood drop would come out. Also, try putting a tiny bit of vaseline on the ear first and that will help the blood bead up a bit sometimes.

As for the lancing device, I never used it. I found the depth settings too hard to manage with a cat and the click bothered Gypsy. I always put the lancet in the device (to be easier to hold), then just freehanded the poke. That might be easier for you. I also often did two pokes one next to the other to help the bleeding at first.

Did you give a treat once you were done? That's the big thing...a nice bribe to make him want to come back for testing!
 
I haven’t tried the Vaseline yet I think that’s my next step. Does this affect the glucose reading at all?

Yeah we gave him some treats but we need to find something he likes more that’s low carb. Haven’t really researched treats for diabetics yet.

Am I able to just get any white meat and cook at and cut it into chunks. His favorites are turkey and pork.
 
Tried again for a fourth time and finally got a reading.

60.

His last dose of insulin was 12-12-18 10:00am
He ate most of a can of food last night so I believe his sugar was low last night as I suspected.

Could he have went into remission this fast? He’s been on weruva wet food for about two weeks so far.
 
Sebastian said:
Tried again for a fourth time and finally got a reading.

60.

His last dose of insulin was 12-12-18 10:00am
He ate most of a can of food last night so I believe his sugar was low last night as I suspected.

Could he have went into remission this fast? He’s been on weruva wet food for about two weeks so far.
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This is an excellent reading. No insulin this morning for sure!! It's possible that the switch to the low carb wet food has controlled his BG - if he was even diabetic in the first place. When was he diagnosed? If he's been on insulin for a while he might have gone into remission quickly but with no testing you wouldn't have known. I'm so glad you persevered and got a successful test this AM. A bad hypo can kill a kitty. :(

Test him again this evening before his normal shot time. Take all food away for two hours before that so you can see his BG with no food influence. If this BG is still low, no insulin again. You need to keep up the BG testing for a little while to see what's going on.
 
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Well, that's a lovely healthy number. As Kris said, definitely no insulin on a number like that! Since we all live in different time zones (and all over the world), we tell time by the number of hours since the shot. So I'm guessing since you are on the east cost that your last dose of insulin was around +22? (22 hours after the last injection)?

And a huge congratulations on getting a test! It took me a bunch of tries (and a couple of days) before my first successful test with Sam. So you're already doing great! And I'm so so so glad that you got a test and didn't shoot on such a low number! And yes, he could have gone into remission that quickly (if he was really diabetic). It could also have been a misdiagnosis. Did your vet do a fructosamine test? Or just a quick blood glucose test in the office?

I think we missed your question about "normal" range: Around here we use 50-120, with most numbers in the 50-80 range as the standard for normal healthy BG when using a human meter. There are other ranges, and some of it depends on if the writer is talking about an AlphaTrak (a blood glucose meter designed for pets), or a human meter. And also if talking about a regular blood glucose test or a fructosamine test (which uses a different scale).

Do keep testing at least twice a day for awhile to make sure that Sebastian is staying in healthy numbers. Sometimes when a cat is overdosed with insulin, they will stay in low numbers for a couple of days, and then start to creep back up again. If that's the case, you'll want to make sure you catch it as diabetes is much easier to control when it's caught and treated early.
 
Sebastian said:
So we tried it. I couldn’t get him to bleed, I hit the small vein on the outer edge of the ear directly after warming it with a rice bag.
Click to expand...

I had to switch to the OUTSIDE of the ear for Emmitt. When I poke the inside smooth part I almost never get blood. On the outside, the fuzzy side, he bleeds like a fountain. He also minds the mechanics of it less as he doesnt perceive me as going into his ear.

It is obviously harder to see the blood, (he is black) but the degree to which it bleeds better makes it worth the trouble spotting it visually. Good luck, keep trying, I almost killed Emmitt because I wasnt testing. (Per my vet) His glucose was 32 when I finally realized I had better get some blood on a test strip.
 
Djamila said:
Well, that's a lovely healthy number. As Kris said, definitely no insulin on a number like that! Since we all live in different time zones (and all over the world), we tell time by the number of hours since the shot. So I'm guessing since you are on the east cost that your last dose of insulin was around +22? (22 hours after the last injection)?

And a huge congratulations on getting a test! It took me a bunch of tries (and a couple of days) before my first successful test with Sam. So you're already doing great! And I'm so so so glad that you got a test and didn't shoot on such a low number! And yes, he could have gone into remission that quickly (if he was really diabetic). It could also have been a misdiagnosis. Did your vet do a fructosamine test? Or just a quick blood glucose test in the office?

I think we missed your question about "normal" range: Around here we use 50-120, with most numbers in the 50-80 range as the standard for normal healthy BG when using a human meter. There are other ranges, and some of it depends on if the writer is talking about an AlphaTrak (a blood glucose meter designed for pets), or a human meter. And also if talking about a regular blood glucose test or a fructosamine test (which uses a different scale).

Do keep testing at least twice a day for awhile to make sure that Sebastian is staying in healthy numbers. Sometimes when a cat is overdosed with insulin, they will stay in low numbers for a couple of days, and then start to creep back up again. If that's the case, you'll want to make sure you catch it as diabetes is much easier to control when it's caught and treated early.
Click to expand...

As of right now at has been +34 hours since his last dose.

The vet never said anything about a fructosamine test so I’m not sure, could you explain the difference a bit just so I understand?

I can call the vet in the morning and ask what tests he had,

maybe I should just have his medical records sent to me and upload it here so you guys can see all the details?
 
AlysonE said:
I had to switch to the OUTSIDE of the ear for Emmitt. When I poke the inside smooth part I almost never get blood. On the outside, the fuzzy side, he bleeds like a fountain. He also minds the mechanics of it less as he doesnt perceive me as going into his ear.

It is obviously harder to see the blood, (he is black) but the degree to which it bleeds better makes it worth the trouble spotting it visually. Good luck, keep trying, I almost killed Emmitt because I wasnt testing. (Per my vet) His glucose was 32 when I finally realized I had better get some blood on a test strip.
Click to expand...

I actually started on the outside and haven’t tried the inside yet.

These two things made all the difference for me between an unsuccessful test and a successful test

Making sure the ear is warm
Putting the neosporin on so the blood beads up

After I did that a got great drop of blood

Can Vaseline or neosporin affect the glucose reading? J
 
A fructosamine test gives an indication of the overall BG in the 2 - 3 weeks prior to the test. If a kitty is truly diabetic it should show an elevated fructosamine number (not the same as BG numbers). If the diabetes diagnosis is made on the basis of only a couple of in clinic BG tests that are likely stress inflated a definitive diagnosis is less likely.

I'm glad you're conquering your testing difficulties. No , the Neosporin shouldn't affect the BG reading.
 
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Sebastian said:
I can call the vet in the morning and ask what tests he had, maybe I should just have his medical records sent to me and upload it here so you guys can see all the details?
Click to expand...

Yes, if you find out what tests he had, you can definitely post your results here and we'll be happy to take a look at them!
 
Sorry I haven’t posted an update in a day or two but no news is good news :)

After his 60 reading we checked him the next day
12-13-18, and he had a 75.

When he was first diagnosed, it seemed like it took about 5-8 days for his sugar to go from normal to elevated levels, like he’s making most of his insulin by himself just not quite enough?

So I figure I can check him every other day unless his levels get out of normal range on a test then I would test him more frequently.
 
Also, we have found a vet that agrees with home testing and has a lot of experience with diabetic cats/dogs.
We haven’t went yet because he’s doing so well, but we have that option if he needs it.
 
Sebastian said:
Also, we have found a vet that agrees with home testing and has a lot of experience with diabetic cats/dogs.
We haven’t went yet because he’s doing so well, but we have that option if he needs it.
Click to expand...
That's great! Seems like you are one of the lucky few who has a diet controlled cat!
 
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