Help and advice

jennifer Peveto

jennifer Peveto

Member
started prozinc a couple weeks ago at 1 unit. I did not have a glucose monitor at the time nor did I have a curve done but began treatment. Gave shot after meal, after about an hour cat was comatose, would only wake up to pee or snack on his food and then would go right back to being passed out. After approx 12 hours kitty was back to "normal", alert and interactive. I did not give a second shot. I continued with one 1unit shot for 8 days with the exact same results noted above, 9th day reduced to 1/2 unit, with the exact same results so I stopped insulin. Spoke with vet she said I needed a curve. Bought a glucose monitor and curved kitty. His glucose his high at 9amish and 1pmish...As per vet started insulin again yesterday, she wanted 1 unit, I did 1/4 unit. I tested glucose at 9ish-412, gave kitty insulin and he was sluggish but a little more alert then when on a full unit. Tested glucose at 1pmish, he had not eaten since morning and was sleeping when I tested. Glucose was 547....he acts hypoglycemic but his test says hyperglycemic....told this to the vet but she wants me to continue with 1 unit of insulin then do a curve after 7 days....I have not given insulin today and kitty is acting "normal". Any thoughts?....help.

Just tested glucose-380. No insulin and yesterday at about the same time with insulin he was 547...I just do not get this nor does my vet!
 
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So hard to know what's going on. It's possible that ProZinc just doesn't agree with your kitty. It happens. Would you be willing to undertake a structured testing routine for the next few days to see if we can help you uncover what's going on? Starting and stopping insulin and changing the dose frequently might well be making him feel worse. Some kitties need time to adjust to insulin. Were the BG readings very high on all the days you tested?
 
Thank you for your time and help...Yes his BG readings have remained pretty steady and high. When I began insulin BG went super high...I have read about bouncing but the dose he bounces on is so so low....1/4 of 1 unit. When I gave him the full unit for the 9 days he was comatose, slept like the dead. I would imagine it is terrible on his little body to start and stop but so is seeing him be totally out of it. What would you suggest I do.....I am open, feel as though my vet knows about as much as I do....
 
jennifer Peveto said:
Thank you for your time and help...Yes his BG readings have remained pretty steady and high. When I began insulin BG went super high...I have read about bouncing but the dose he bounces on is so so low....1/4 of 1 unit. When I gave him the full unit for the 9 days he was comatose, slept like the dead. I would imagine it is terrible on his little body to start and stop but so is seeing him be totally out of it. What would you suggest I do.....I am open, feel as though my vet knows about as much as I do....
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How was he diagnosed? A fructosamine test, several BG tests at the vet's clinic? It's possible that Lantus might be a better insulin for him. Does your vet ever use it?
 
It's possible Prozinc just doesn't agree with him as Kris said. That can happen on any insulin and sometimes the best option is to switch to another insulin and see if it works. It's hard to see your kitty not feeling well I know!
 
Kris & Teasel said:
How was he diagnosed? A fructosamine test, several BG tests at the vet's clinic? It's possible that Lantus might be a better insulin for him. Does your vet ever use it?
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Oh boy, how little I know.....I noticed a ton more pee in the litter box and took him in immediately. The vet tested his urine and a BG test at the clinic...There was sugar in his pee and his BG was about 330 at that time. Vet's thinking: was below 350 and the excessive peeing had only been happening a few days, Ralph(cat) would be a good candidate for trying to lower BG with diet....We went back 2 weeks later and his glucose had dropped a bit to 320. Then a few days later he ended up sick with a UTI, was given a long lasting antibiotic shot, went back a week later for urine test and BG....BG had jumped to 412 if I remember correctly but it was higher for sure...said it was insulin time and I began on a monday, with out a glucose curve....started with 1 unit and it immediately made him comatose. Thought it maybe an adjustment period but after the 8th day of "zombie cat" I reduced to 1/2 a unit on the 9th day. Same result so I stopped. Got a kitty glucose monitor, did a curve, numbers still high....vet said needs to be on insulin. Started yesterday with 1/4 of a unit dose, with the same result...coma kitty. BUT this time I was able to check his glucose and about 4 hours after the dose he was at 547 from 412 at 9am.
Vet recommended Glargine but I definitely can not afford $300 insulin for my cat....

You all are amazing cat people! I admire your tenacity. Thank you for sharing what you have learned cause my vet is as clueless as I am(she admits she has not had much experience with feline diabetes)
 
Lantus (glargine) is purchased by many US users from a reputable Canadian pharmacy, Marks Marine Pharmacy in Vancouver. The cost is half what you'd pay in the US. @Chris & China was (one of?) the first FDMBers to buy from them and has encouraged many people since. ProZinc is actually more expensive to use because it's a less concentrated insulin so you use it up faster. Lantus is 2.5 times more concentrated so it goes a lot further.
 
Kris & Teasel said:
@Chris & China was (one of?) the first FDMBers to buy from them and has encouraged many people since.
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Yes, I was the first and I'm so happy to have been able to recommend them to so many others!

Here's the information on Buying insulin from Canada if you decide to try the Lantus

One thing to add though....when we first start insulin, it's not uncommon for the cat to act really tired. It's kind of like if you're used to drinking several cups of coffee each day and suddenly you're given a medication that blocks the caffeine. Your kitty's body may have gotten used to living at those high numbers, and the insulin is making him feel different.
 
Chris & China said:
Yes, I was the first and I'm so happy to have been able to recommend them to so many others!

Here's the information on Buying insulin from Canada if you decide to try the Lantus

One thing to add though....when we first start insulin, it's not uncommon for the cat to act really tired. It's kind of like if you're used to drinking several cups of coffee each day and suddenly you're given a medication that blocks the caffeine. Your kitty's body may have gotten used to living at those high numbers, and the insulin is making him feel different.
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I thought he may have needed an adjustment period as well....but when I checked his BG yesterday, after a shot, his number was super high....so if his body had adapted to high numbers....cats are weird. Thank you for your time and information...

Have you had any other posts with "strange" physical reactions to insulin?
 
jennifer Peveto said:
I thought he may have needed an adjustment period as well....but when I checked his BG yesterday, after a shot, his number was super high....so if his body had adapted to high numbers....cats are weird. Thank you for your time and information...

Have you had any other posts with "strange" physical reactions to insulin?
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Yes, I’ve read similar things here. My guy acted tired in the hours after his dose when he was on ProZinc. It lessened over many months.
 
Hm, Rhubarb seemed a tiny bit sleepier than usual after her first dose. Didn't think about that!
 
I think there is also the factor that once we start insulin, we also start to observe our cats more closely than ever before and add meaning to every little thing. Most cats will take a long nap after a meal. And since we give insulin with a meal, the natural result is sleeping which could be from the insulin, but it could also be because that's just what cats do after they eat.

And as Chris said, when a cat is newly diagnosed they need time to adjust. And they were diagnosed in the first place because we noticed something wrong - they were sick in some way - and sleep is a natural response to ill health.

Now all that being said, there are definitely cats that respond poorly to one or another of the insulins. I've gone through that with my guy too - he responded poorly to Lantus. So if you think that's the cause, switching is an option.

You could also go with Kris' initial suggestion and keep on with the Prozinc, take a few days to gather some data, and continue to observe and we can see if we can't help you get things sorted a bit.

If you want to try that, it will be important to get a test before each shot, and then again at least once during the cycle. Sometime four to seven hours after the shot is ideal if your work/life schedule will allow it.
 
Djamila said:
I think there is also the factor that once we start insulin, we also start to observe our cats more closely than ever before and add meaning to every little thing. Most cats will take a long nap after a meal. And since we give insulin with a meal, the natural result is sleeping which could be from the insulin, but it could also be because that's just what cats do after they eat.

And as Chris said, when a cat is newly diagnosed they need time to adjust. And they were diagnosed in the first place because we noticed something wrong - they were sick in some way - and sleep is a natural response to ill health.

Now all that being said, there are definitely cats that respond poorly to one or another of the insulins. I've gone through that with my guy too - he responded poorly to Lantus. So if you think that's the cause, switching is an option.

You could also go with Kris' initial suggestion and keep on with the Prozinc, take a few days to gather some data, and continue to observe and we can see if we can't help you get things sorted a bit.

If you want to try that, it will be important to get a test before each shot, and then again at least once during the cycle. Sometime four to seven hours after the shot is ideal if your work/life schedule will allow it.
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Vet wanted me to start insulin again, I gave kitty .25 a unit dose on monday. I tested before the shot his BG was 412(9amish) At about 1pmish I tested again and his BG was 547. Since his dose is so so small it would seem he is not responding well to the type of insulin. He is allergic to the standard rabies vaccination and has to get a special one....he also has the feline herpes....lotsa cards stacked against him!

What kind of data would I need to gather?
 
If you think your kitty is having a bad reaction, then you need to talk to your vet about changing insulin.

Collecting data will only be helpful if you think it might be one of those other factors causing him to sleep (needing time to adjust, being in high numbers, etc.). If you want to keep him on Prozinc you would link one of the spreadsheets (we can give you directions for that), input the data you have so far, and based on that we could give some suggestions for a dose to try and a plan for testing.

Again though, if the insulin itself is the problem, getting a prescription for a different insulin would be the way to go.
 
When you all started this journey with your furry baby, did you feel really really frustrated with your vet? I know I could try a different vet but then it is dragging the cat to the worst place in the world(by his estimation) all over again....
 
Update: Thanks to you all posting on this amazing site I was able to get Lantus insulin for $99(which is less expensive then Prozinc). Started dosing The Ralph yesterday at 1/2 unit (vet prescribed 1 unit but I am of the mind, less is more). The results have been AMAZING! no comatose kitty, he is being his silly self because he feels better than he has in months...
Tested his BG this AM before dose and it was at 219! I still gave him a 1/2 unit but called the vet to get some advice and the response is what made me post the comment above. I just wanted to know at what point do you know your cat is in remission....I understand that he is not in remission after 1 series of insulin but the response was..."stop testing his glucose, give the 1 unit the vet prescribed and bring him in after 7 days for a curve...." which sounds like poo poo to me. I have been reading posts on this sight and following my instinct and have had better success with that then following the vet...

Should I not test his BG before I give him his shot? Is it really an issue to not dose the full unit if I am seeing results at 1/2 unit?

And a praise to those that hammer the NO KIBBLE rule. Vet, of course, sold me dry prescription food...have stopped giving it to him, mainly wet and not wet prescription food but brands based on the lowest amount of carbs (thank you for all that info too!) He does get a small bit of kibble at night, he is a kibble addict, but his BG is not wonky so, that works for him, so far...
 
Jennifer, just my two cents worth, don't stop testing!!! It's critical to test to help prevent a hypo event.
ALWAYS test before injection, to be sure it is safe to do so. And get those mid cycle tests! You need to know how low his BG goes between the insulin shots. It would be a good idea to create your signature so that members have kitty's info right at hand, and do get the spreadsheet going, so members can view the data you are collecting.
Here are links: SIGNATURE & SPREADSHEET
Advising members are going to need that information before they can offer input.
Then, you need to visit the Lantus forum, read the stickies there at the top of the page. Get educated about that insulin to know how it works and treatment protocols. LANTUS
The members there will be able to further advise you about dosing, what remission is and how to determine if it is happening.
Plus, and also really important, read the Hypo instructions and have supplies on hand, just in case. If your kitty is responding to the Lantus and is on the low carb diet, you need to just be prepared and know what to do if those numbers get too low. That info is in FAQs
Some cats do go into remission quickly with a diet change and a bit of insulin support, Idjit did, to my surprise. We were just figuring out how to test well and trying to dose properly. So, get the signature, spreadsheet done, and get over to Lantus forum so that the experienced members can advise. Best wishes!
 
jennifer Peveto said:
When you all started this journey with your furry baby, did you feel really really frustrated with your vet?
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We're on vet #5....does that answer your question?....LOL I live in a very small town and the only vets here are "mixed practice".....the only time they see a cat is when it's underfoot on their way to the barn to treat a cow. (of course they actually do see dogs/cats at the office, but you get the idea)….The vet that diagnosed China said "Insulin is a hassle. Feed her this food (W/D kibble) and she may live another 4 months".....she's now been diabetic for over 5 years and is still here thanks to the people here who taught me how to really treat diabetes!
 
Idjit's mom said:
Jennifer, just my two cents worth, don't stop testing!!! It's critical to test to help prevent a hypo event.
ALWAYS test before injection, to be sure it is safe to do so. And get those mid cycle tests! You need to know how low his BG goes between the insulin shots. It would be a good idea to create your signature so that members have kitty's info right at hand, and do get the spreadsheet going, so members can view the data you are collecting.
Here are links: SIGNATURE & SPREADSHEET
Advising members are going to need that information before they can offer input.
Then, you need to visit the Lantus forum, read the stickies there at the top of the page. Get educated about that insulin to know how it works and treatment protocols. LANTUS
The members there will be able to further advise you about dosing, what remission is and how to determine if it is happening.
Plus, and also really important, read the Hypo instructions and have supplies on hand, just in case. If your kitty is responding to the Lantus and is on the low carb diet, you need to just be prepared and know what to do if those numbers get too low. That info is in FAQs
Some cats do go into remission quickly with a diet change and a bit of insulin support, Idjit did, to my surprise. We were just figuring out how to test well and trying to dose properly. So, get the signature, spreadsheet done, and get over to Lantus forum so that the experienced members can advise. Best wishes!
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A very valuable two cents! It seems like common sense to know where your kitties glucose levels are before you dose a medication that can kill!

Trying to set up the spreadsheet now...
 
Chris & China said:
We're on vet #5....does that answer your question?....LOL I live in a very small town and the only vets here are "mixed practice".....the only time they see a cat is when it's underfoot on their way to the barn to treat a cow. (of course they actually do see dogs/cats at the office, but you get the idea)….The vet that diagnosed China said "Insulin is a hassle. Feed her this food (W/D kibble) and she may live another 4 months".....she's now been diabetic for over 5 years and is still here thanks to the people here who taught me how to really treat diabetes!
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Answers the question, leaving NO doubt! It would be refreshing to encounter a vet that values an owners insight, since animals can not speak how they feel....and we observe and know our pets!
 
jennifer Peveto said:
Answers the question, leaving NO doubt! It would be refreshing to encounter a vet that values an owners insight, since animals can not speak how they feel....and we observe and know our pets!
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Yes, I'm very lucky with my vet too! I had to go through one or two beforehand, but I finally found a good one.
 
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